Transcendentalism Today

[kkawohl]

Transcendentalism Today

The term Transcendentalism was derived from the philosopher Kant, who called "all knowledge transcendental which is concerned not with objects but with our mode of knowing objects." In the words of Ralph Waldo Emerson, "We will walk on our own feet; we will work with our own hands; we will speak our own minds...A nation of men will for the first time exist, because each believes himself inspired by the Divine Soul which also inspires all men." Transcendentalists have been known as individuals who have attempted to correct what they saw as misperceptions within societies.

Transcendentalism Today can influence the beginning of a new realization in many religions. Many books have been written on various religious beliefs. Most people have their own self attained or learned knowledge or deep religious convictions on spirituality. There are many spiritual people who know that God is the rational Purity who/that does not require servitude, ritualistic prayers or a forced slavery in order for the soul to be a part of Purity for eternity.

In this 21st Century, the Age of Technology, we are still plagued by religious beliefs that may be a contributing cause of terrorism, killings and wars between nations. Belief in a God who causes catastrophes, punishes people and who created the universe out of nothing as if by magic was brought about by hysteria and superstition. This thought process needs to be reassessed and brought up to date. Open-minded people must use common sense to determine whether this God was incorrectly perceived, misinterpreted and misunderstood by the masses of a bygone era.

Perception plays a major role in religions. There are numerous interpretations of the Scriptures, hence there are various sects who use the same source, the Bible or the Qur'an, but come to different conclusions. Religious differences are acceptable by the majority as long as fanaticism does not cause physical confrontations. The ironic fact is that the followers of these religions all claim to live by the Word of God. Many claim that God has personally talked to their messengers who have relayed these Words of God to others. Apparently the Words of God were either misinterpreted, God is contradicting himself, or we start all over again by each side claiming to live by and having heard the Word of God correctly.

When establishing an association with the present day problems between Jews, Christians and Muslims, we can come up with numerous answers, however if there were no distinctions between Muslims, Jews, and Christians, strife would be nonexistent. The major distinction is religion. Muslims have been led to believe that they must expand Islam by any means at their disposal in order to please Allah/God. In many regions occupied by Muslims, conflicts have arisen with their neighbors.

When peoples' concept of God is flawed, corrections, truth, logic and common sense thereof must eventually prevail. Human fallibility and misconceptions have labeled God for past millennia as one who interferes with the natural forces and free will of people by threatening punishment to those who disobey his bidding. The God of our ancestors had to be humanized in order to have the masses adapt the thought processes to that time period.

God does not change with the times but our perception of who God is should change as societies eliminate their superstitious beliefs. God, the Ultimate Spirit consists of Supreme Purity, Pure Intelligence, Pure Logic, etc., is not encumbered by human attributes and has no needs, or a desire to be worshiped, prayed to, exalted, venerated, deified, or anything else that we have to offer.

Human characteristics are to exercise upon others: power, control, dominance, destruction, punishment, revenge, judgment. Everyone is individually and personally totally responsible for his own soul's destiny. The destruction of civilizations, most sufferings and premature deaths are due to human frailties, stupidity or imperfections and are not God's doings. God, exists in a spiritual realm and never has and never will interfere with anything on earth or in the universe.

God is interested in and is involved in humanity, but does not interfere in any way in our physical lives. God guides the development of the universe and everything thereon like a Master Planner. Our relationship and interaction of our spirit with the Spirit of God is for our, not God's benefit. ALL religions have the same goal.

A Transcendentalist is often a spiritually enlightened individual whose ultimate goal is to unite and strengthen communities or religious organization. A Spiritual Transcendentalist Today subscribes to the rationality and logic that should be applied to All religions. One needs to keep an open mind and allow the spirit to absorb the logic of who/what God is without being inhibited by what should be considered outdated religious dogma and conditioning that has been a major contributing factor to the causes of terrorism.

Spiritual transcendence of a person's spirit into a Dimensional Beyondness was achieved by most well known religious leaders. Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, Bahá'u'lláh, Zoroaster, Ahmad, Nanak and many others of various faiths had achieved spiritual enlightenment by mastering the art of spiritual transcendence. Many were Transcendentalists who have changed the course of mankind. Social norms during the time period of their lives dictated their and their society's acceptance of a spiritual existence or a Supreme Spirit of Purity, (a God) of either, might, royalty, peace, or government.

My spirit has seen the face of God and if I'm lying I'm risking the survival of my soul...and I KNOW that my soul will be with God...God is spiritual and is the progressive and accumulative spiritual intelligence of the universe; an accumulation of all the righteous souls who have passed into the spiritual realm. God does not and never has meddled in the tangible universe. It is of no importance during our physical life whether God exists or not if one so chooses. Whether or not one believes in a spirit or God really makes no difference to God. Righteous living will determine the continuance and destiny of our spirit/soul.

"I Am A Transcendentalist"

Namaste,
Kurt Kawohl

http://transcendentalism.us

[emotional]

Kurt Kawohl,

Your message isn't bad, but you're carrying it to the wrong audience. Go and preach it to those who need it most: the intolerant fundamentalist Christians and Muslims. Atheists aren't in need of a message of tolerance, Christians and Muslims are.

[kkawohl]

Agreed...but...atheists are not conditioned or brain-washed like many religious zealots...so this might be the right audience to help promote my cause....which is to bring rationality into religions, if that is possible...I know, you do not agree...but ask yourself this...can you get any fanatics...say Muslim...to stop terrorism & killings for Allah's sake by telling them that Allah does not exist? ... I offer the alternative.

Kurt

[kkawohl]

I am a member of:

United Communities of Spirit
http://www.origin.org/ucs/home.cfm

World Interfaith Congress
http://interfaithcongress.org/home.cfm


Kurt

Edited for solicitation of perusal in direct violation of Rule 1. - liv

[emotional]

Originally posted by kkawohl
atheists are not conditioned or brain-washed like many religious zealots...


And they're not intolerant towards humans of other beliefs or peculiar lifestyles. Yours is a humanistic message, but most atheists believe in humanistic values, even if they don't call themselves humanists. You needn't carry coal to Newcastle, as it were.


so this might be the right audience to help promote my cause....


You have a supernaturalist message. Prepare for heavy debating if you wish to convey such a message to folks here :D


which is to bring rationality into religions, if that is possible...


Ah, but atheism isn't a religion. Again, you're targetting the wrong audience.


I know, you do not agree...but ask yourself this...can you get any fanatics...say Muslim...to stop terrorism & killings for Allah's sake by telling them that Allah does not exist? ... I offer the alternative.


OK, so get your message across to fundamentalist Christians and Muslims, they really need it. Convincing them that their warlike, intolerant god does not exist is what it's all about, be it through atheism or through your transcendentalist message. Either way, the Christians and the Muslims are the problem, not the atheists here.

Best wishes,

emotional (Deist, spiritualist, humanist)

[kkawohl]

You sign yourself as:

emotional (Deist, spiritualist, humanist)


You consider yourself an atheist...Humanism for an atheist is O.K....but a Deist is a person who believes in a supreme being....and a spiritualist is one who believes in spiritualism....so are you an emotionalist ?

[kkawohl]

emotional,

One more item...you stated that I have a supernaturalist message....a supernaturalist is one who believes in the supernatural - that what does not conform to natural laws...this is not my belief...I subscribe to the knowlege of a spiritual existence which much of mankind has misinterpreted and called God.

[emotional]

Originally posted by kkawohl
You sign yourself as:

emotional (Deist, spiritualist, humanist)

You consider yourself an atheist...Humanism for an atheist is O.K....but a Deist is a person who believes in a supreme being....and a spiritualist is one who believes in spiritualism....so are you an emotionalist ?


There is no contradiction between any of the three labels I attach to myself.

I believe in life after death, astral bodies (spirit bodies), astral planes (spirit worlds) and the possibility of communicating with the deceased. That makes me a spiritualist.

I believe in one God who created the universe, set all the natural laws and then left it all running freely. That makes me a Deist.

I believe God is self-sufficient and requires no worship nor praise. The way to higher states of spiritual evolution (into the "heavenly planes") is not by slobbering praise of God, but by kindly and loving actions towards other human beings. That makes me a humanist.


One more item...you stated that I have a supernaturalist message....a supernaturalist is one who believes in the supernatural - that what does not conform to natural laws...this is not my belief...I subscribe to the knowlege of a spiritual existence which much of mankind has misinterpreted and called God.


You talk about God in your opening message. If you believe in God then you are a supernaturalist. If you believe in any form of life after death then you are a supernaturalist again. Certainly natural laws exist and are the rule in this universe, but God and the afterlife are outside the scope of the natural - God is outside of space and time, and astral bodies don't obey the second law of thermodynamics (they don't decompose).

[kkawohl]

Originally posted by emotional
Kurt Kawohl,

Your message isn't bad, but you're carrying it to the wrong audience. Go and preach it to those who need it most: the intolerant fundamentalist Christians and Muslims. Atheists aren't in need of a message of tolerance, Christians and Muslims are.

I apologize for mistakenly interpreting from your above quote that you are an atheist.

I know that God is spiritual and is the progressive and accumulative spiritual intelligence of the universe; an accumulation of all the righteous souls who have passed into the spiritual realm. God does not and never has meddled in the tangible universe.

In your last post you stated that God created the universe....that would indicate that something created God prior to that.

[kkawohl]

Originally posted by emotional
You talk about God in your opening message. If you believe in God then you are a supernaturalist. If you believe in any form of life after death then you are a supernaturalist again. Certainly natural laws exist and are the rule in this universe, but God and the afterlife are outside the scope of the natural - God is outside of space and time, and astral bodies don't obey the second law of thermodynamics (they don't decompose). [/B]

I agree with your last sentence but not the first 2 sentences.

A supernaturalist believes in the supernatural. Supernatural means not conforming to known natural forces or laws; beyond what is natural or normal; magical, mystical, such as ghosts...which do not exist.

Kurt

[kkawohl]

Originally posted by emotional
There is no contradiction between any of the three labels I attach to myself.

I believe in life after death, astral bodies (spirit bodies), astral planes (spirit worlds) and the possibility of communicating with the deceased. That makes me a spiritualist.



My stance is that any interpretation of ANY PHYSICAL contact with the spiritual is a misinterpretation. According to my own spiritual experience, our spirit is the only one capable of interacting with the spiritual realm or dimension. This spiritual experience is often indecipherable by the human mind which also often misinterprets its meaning, hence we have various religions and beliefs.

The physical plane is 3 dimensional. Space is often considered the fourth dimension. By my spiritual interpretation this is where the spiritual existence is a reality. To speak of space as containing in itself a quality which we humans cognize as intelligence, consciousness, love, or hate is to speak with accuracy, for all these qualities do exist.

kURT

[emotional]

Originally posted by kkawohl
I know that God is spiritual and is the progressive and accumulative spiritual intelligence of the universe; an accumulation of all the righteous souls who have passed into the spiritual realm.


God is spirit. He is a personal being, the creator of the universe, distinct from His creation. We are not God.


God does not and never has meddled in the tangible universe.


That's right, He created a fully-gifted creation with the capability of self-organising into creatures like us (hence evolution). The parameters for self-organising were set 15 billion years ago and has been running freely ever since.


In your last post you stated that God created the universe....that would indicate that something created God prior to that.

This is an impossibility. God is the creator of space and time, therefore He transcends space and time, therefore there can be no creator of Him or anything prior to Him in time.

Something cannot come out of nothing. Something must always have existed. The universe did not always exist. Space and time began at one point. God is the creator of space and time, and He is the "something" that has always existed.


A supernaturalist believes in the supernatural. Supernatural means not conforming to known natural forces or laws; beyond what is natural or normal; magical, mystical, such as ghosts...which do not exist.


God is supernatural - He transcends nature, which is space, time, matter and energy.


My stance is that any interpretation of ANY PHYSICAL contact with the spiritual is a misinterpretation. According to my own spiritual experience, our spirit is the only one capable of interacting with the spiritual realm or dimension. This spiritual experience is often indecipherable by the human mind which also often misinterprets its meaning, hence we have various religions and beliefs.


I agree. Between the material realm and the spiritual realms a great gulf is fixed.

[kkawohl]

Originally posted by emotional


God is spirit. He is a personal being, the creator of the universe, distinct from His creation. We are not God.

[/b]

That's right, He created a fully-gifted creation with the capability of self-organising into creatures like us (hence evolution). The parameters for self-organising were set 15 billion years ago and has been running freely ever since.



This is an impossibility. God is the creator of space and time, therefore He transcends space and time, therefore there can be no creator of Him or anything prior to Him in time.

Something cannot come out of nothing. Something must always have existed. The universe did not always exist. Space and time began at one point. God is the creator of space and time, and He is the "something" that has always existed.

[/b]

God is supernatural - He transcends nature, which is space, time, matter and energy.

[/b]

I agree. Between the material realm and the spiritual realms a great gulf is fixed. [/B]

To have "something" that has always existed is illogical... and then to have Him create time and space... and refer to it as "He" ....and then to say that between the material realm and the spiritual realms a great gulf is fixed is completely illogical... when God is the ultimate purity, including pure logic.

Logic to the point where it is accepted as being logical to the one who accepts its logic is arrived at through the deductive reasoning process by the one who desires to have his logic be accepted as being logical.

For example: If nothingness is vacuum and space at the beginning was empty of matter and we reason that everything has to have a beginning, we can rationalize that atoms formed compounds; then how did atoms originate?

Modern atomic theory is generally said to begin with John Dalton, an English chemist and meteorologist who in 1808 published a book on the atmosphere and the behavior of gases that was entitled A New System of Chemical Philosophy. Dalton's theory of atoms rested on four basic ideas: chemical elements were composed of atoms; the atoms of an element were identical in weight; the atoms of different elements had different weights; and atoms combined only in small whole-number ratios, such as 1:1, 1:2, 2:1, 2:3, to form compounds.

In recent years, we have learned that 95% of the Universe is made of a type of matter or energy that we cannot see nor understand. Gravity may ripple across the Universe in waves, and certain cosmic rays, atomic particles moving at near light speed, possess an energy far greater than that which can be explained by modern physics.

The question arises: If a person believes that his spirit has received evidence of a spiritual existence, logic would preclude that this is possible, but if a spiritual existence exists can it be logical or is it only logical to the one who believes it to be so?

Kurt

http://transcendentalism.us

[kkawohl]

Continuity is an uninterrupted connection in space, time, operation or development. To have an initial connection or junction, it must have a starting point then continuity. A circle can not be created without a starting point.

Some atomic particles possess vast amounts of energy and energy or life and is a fundamental attribute and function of the universe; it infers that an equivalent quantity of physical energy was expended in creating the atom. In the beginning atoms were created from energy and came into existence from nothingness, which can be vacuum or space that is empty of matter. An explosion from a compression of atoms, caused the “big bang”. This was the beginning of the universe.

In my book I state "My spirit observed the entire history and the evolution of the universe and peoples varying perceptions of God, as if in a fast-forward film. By what I had experienced, I perceived that I had been given a task by The Spirit of God to make an attempt to bring common sense to a belief in God.

Kurt

[emotional]

Originally posted by kkawohl
To have "something" that has always existed is illogical...


Au contraire, it is the only logical thing to hold. Something cannot come out of nothing, therefore something has always existed.


and then to say that between the material realm and the spiritual realms a great gulf is fixed is completely illogical...


Can all people see or hear or anywise experience the spiritual realms now? If not all people can do this - in contrast to the fact that all people can see a blue sky at daytime - then there is a great gulf between the spiritual realms and the material one. If there were not, the reality of the spiritual realms would be as accessible to anyone as the blue sky of daytime.


when God is the ultimate purity, including pure logic.


God is the author of all logic, but His existence is not automatically logical, otherwise all people would believe.

[kkawohl]

Originally posted by emotional


Can all people see or hear or anywise experience the spiritual realms now? If not all people can do this - in contrast to the fact that all people can see a blue sky at daytime - then there is a great gulf between the spiritual realms and the material one. If there were not, the reality of the spiritual realms would be as accessible to anyone as the blue sky of daytime.


No one can physically see or hear anything in the the spiritual realm, our spirit is the only one able to experience a spiritual interaction.

We exist physically and with the spirit on the present plane with negative and positive. Righteous living and meditation filter and cleanse the negative of the spirit. The soul is the encompassing vessel that carries the spirit to its destination upon the physical demise. The soul is also the data storage area in the subconscious and is not subject to emotions; it can however trigger physical reflexes and responses. When the spirit leaves its host (physical demise) it has to be received by and interlace with the spirit host or it ceases its existence; upon the bonding with the spirit host, the spirit continues eternally.

The spirit, when the mind is in mental stasis, can at times connect with the Supreme Spirit, as evidenced by messengers. (Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc.) The mind's ability to interpret this connection and messages is often deficient, hence we have the creation of various religions.

Kurt

[kkawohl]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by emotional


Au contraire, it is the only logical thing to hold. Something cannot come out of nothing, therefore something has always existed.

[QUOTE]

____________________________________________________

Creation and evolution work in unison. The former can not survive without the latter. If a man and woman desire a child, they set into motion processes of creation and evolution. The prophet Jesus stated, "If you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, `Move from here to there, and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you." As long as this is not taken literally, it is indeed a true statement.

If a city Master Plan calls for a mountain to be relocated, it will be done. Were the planners, designers, architects, contractors, or the laborers responsible for the finished product? If God, via inspiration initiates a process, or causes currents to carry a germinated seed on a meteorite to a distant planet; to create and have life evolve thereby, is not God creating life and responsible for evolution? If life is created and it does not evolve, it perishes.

Creation of the universe, as per the Bible, is a formation of something from nothing. If evolution is combined with creation, we have a feasible concept. Most religious concepts of creation are that God, a mysterious entity that has always existed, came out of nowhere and created the entire universe; this is illogical. Evolution is the development, progression change of organisms, cells or molecules by means of the adaptation to the demands of the environment. Mass and energy is the result of evolution. Dust particles gather to evolve into mass. If mass is compressed to the point of fusion, spontaneous combustion and fission create energy; the universe thereby evolves.

God is like a Master Planner who/that guides the universe rather than one who controls it. God is not this mighty ruler who wishes to enslave mankind, but a peaceful coexistence of the spirits or souls of many of our forefathers, past prophets, and all who lived righteously. Cultures change with time, God has always been the same but our perception of God will vary as mankind eliminates his superstitious tendencies.

Einstein felt that "God" may very well be the "energy" that is in all matter and energy, that cannot be separated from matter/energy. I submit that God is the pure energy and pure spiritual intellect of the spiritual realm.



Kurt
http://transcendentalism.us

[emotional]

Originally posted by kkawohl
The spirit, when the mind is in mental stasis, can at times connect with the Supreme Spirit, as evidenced by messengers. (Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc.) The mind's ability to interpret this connection and messages is often deficient, hence we have the creation of various religions.


This (called mediumship) is some people's gift. Not all who try to communicate with the astral planes suceed in doing so. I have never suceeded in achieving awareness through meditation, no matter how intensely I meditated; I take the existence of spiritual realms on faith alone.


Creation of the universe, as per the Bible, is a formation of something from nothing. If evolution is combined with creation, we have a feasible concept. Most religious concepts of creation are that God, a mysterious entity that has always existed, came out of nowhere and created the entire universe; this is illogical.


There are various simulations of evolution done on computers, such as Biomorphs (by Richard Dawkins) and Tierra (by Tom Ray). The common denominator among them all is that they cannot start of their own accord, from nothing, but need an initial designer to set the parameters up. In similar wise the processes of evolution could not have started alone; they were started by the Creator 15 billion years ago.


Einstein felt that "God" may very well be the "energy" that is in all matter and energy, that cannot be separated from matter/energy. I submit that God is the pure energy and pure spiritual intellect of the spiritual realm.


God is not an energy, nor an impersonal mystical force, but the personal being who created the whole creation. Those who return from near-death experiences testify that God is personal, not impersonal, and that God is a being distinct from themselves. To assert that one is God is sinful; God is God, and we are not God. He is transcendent (other than His creation) as well as immanent (omnipresent in His creation).

[kkawohl]

Originally posted by emotional
This (called mediumship) is some people's gift. Not all who try to communicate with the astral planes suceed in doing so. I have never suceeded in achieving awareness through meditation, no matter how intensely I meditated; I take the existence of spiritual realms on faith alone.



Project yourself into a scenario whereupon, after your spirit has established a communication link with the Spirit of God, upon your physical demise, all of the data that your spirit has accumulated and stored in your soul is transmitted and received by God into a spiritual dimension which contains any and all of the knowledge and experiences of the universe. You are now a part of God.

I have personally experienced my spirit leaving my body and being united with the Ultimate Supreme Spirit (God?). In 1956 when I was 15 years old I had double pneumonia and I thought that I would surely die. My father took me to a doctor who gave me a penicillin injection and recommended immediate hospitalization. We had no medical insurance or money, so my father took me home to recuperate. I remember the drive home vividly. Every breath was extremely painful and my chest felt as though a great weight was upon it. I watched cars and trucks drive by and I wondered how people could make long term plans when life was so unpredictable.

Several nights later it felt as if my spirit left my body and it experienced being in a place with a gathering of souls or spirits. I felt the greatest peace, tranquility and ecstasy. I felt a rapture that was beyond a person's imagination. I felt as if I was a part of ALL, a part of God. I was mentally communicating and in sync with everyone; many of the prophets of the bible and historical people whom I had read about, some of my deceased acquaintances and relatives. There was no dominant force, no forceful leader. I somehow knew who everyone was. Every thought was interacted with the whole community. I had no questions; it seemed as if everything was revealed and crystal clear. I saw the universe stretched out before us like a vast expanse with spirits engaged in mental interaction like master craftsmen contemplating the creation of a new frontier.

When I told my father who was a preacher of the Lutheran Faith about my experience he dismissed it abruptly and told me that this Supreme Spirit, this God that my spirit had witnessed was not the God of the Bible and he told me to pray for my salvation. We never talked about it afterwards.

Since that time I never really gave it much thought until after the New York World Trade Center tragedy on 9-11-01. I went into deep meditation. I wanted to to find an answer as to why/how some misguided individuals could believe that their actions would be rewarded with their soul's eternal life with God. I then had a couple of very similar experiences of my spirit communicating with the Ultimate Spirit. (God, Allah or whatever one desires to call him/it) On the night of 9-11-01 my spiritual experience was very similar to the one that I had 45 years ago at age 15.

About a week later I had another spiritual experience that was in a progression which seemed to last throughout the entire night. My spirit observed the entire history and the evolution of the universe and peoples varying perceptions of God, as if in a fast-forward film. By what I had experienced, I perceived that I had been given a task by The Spirit of God to make an attempt to bring common sense to a belief in God.

Some will say that my experience is nothing but a dream or a vivid imagination but if you discount everything else, there is still rationality, common sense and logic. Religions have originated from an apprehension of the unknown after physical death. We do not need to fear death; it is a new beginning. The Spirit of God has revealed to me that God is not that petty so as to condemn mankind for their varying beliefs.

The messenger is of no significance, it is the message that needs to be taken into account and judged for its merits. I believe that I have personally experienced a oneness with The Spirit of God and as surely as I know that God exists, I know that my soul will be with God.

Much of what I have written here is what my spirit has experienced and can be accepted or totally rejected by anyone if they so desire. Let us hope that man will eventually progress intellectually and evolve to a point whereby he can socialize with totally eliminated tendencies for barbarianism and without a fear of punishment from God; this would true enlightenment.

By pointing out a flaw and reason for terrorism and violence in the name of religion, my only intent is to make people aware of the futility and intellectual gullibility of societies which have not progressed their beliefs since the Middle Ages. The main purpose of my postings is to have open-minded people peruse my writings and offer feedback on how our religious beliefs can to be brought into the 21st Century.

May your spirit be at peace.
Kurt Kawohl

[emotional]

May you succeed in your mission, Kurt. I look forward to your bringing Muslims to see sense and leave the way of Jihad and terrorism.


We do not need to fear death; it is a new beginning.


Amen to that!

[kkawohl]

Originally posted by emotional
May you succeed in your mission, Kurt. I look forward to your bringing Muslims to see sense and leave the way of Jihad and terrorism.



Thanks.

I have posted on numerous boards worldwide. The surprising results have been that many who practice logical reasoning have suggested as an answer to religious radicals, that they read my writings.

Kurt
http://transcendentalism.us

[Bree]

I personally would love to see you two in a formal debate.

[emotional]

Originally posted by Bree
I personally would love to see you two in a formal debate.

Two objections:

1) I'm not a good debater. I run out of gas pretty quickly.

2) It'd be the two of us deadlocked in pitting spiritual writings and experiences against each other. "I experienced union with God", "NDEs describe God as a distinct being" etc. Who can argue for or against the validity of those experiences?

Anyways, there's not much I dispute with Mr Kawohl. We may disagree on theological specifics, but we both see the need to challenge fundamentalist religions on their own spiritual grounds. And we both agree God does not intervene in the creation.

[Secular Pinoy]

I thought you have the constant urge to win, emotional? A formal debate can end this jousting and it could very well make one of you a clear winner. :D

[emotional]

Originally posted by Secular Pinoy
I thought you have the constant urge to win, emotional?


Yes, but I'm also a sore loser. Plus, I get tired after only a few rounds of debate.


A formal debate can end this jousting and it could very well make one of you a clear winner.

As I said, this debate would mostly involve exchanges of spiritual experiences, which would all be meaningful in some way and therefore useless in proving a point. I can't dispute Mr Kawohl when he describes an experience of "union with God" (calling it counterfeit is best left as a monopoly of the Christians), and he in turn can't dispute me when I say NDEs describe God as a separate, personal being. It's not a debate that can be won.

Anyway, I'm still of the opinion Kurt has come to the wrong place. He has a message of universal tolerance to preach, which is very good, but most people here don't need it (ie they already adhere to universal tolerance). He should go curing those who are sick - Christian and Muslim fundamentalists.

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by kkawohl
A Transcendentalist is often a spiritually enlightened individual whose ultimate goal is to unite and strengthen communities or religious organization. A Spiritual Transcendentalist Today subscribes to the rationality and logic that should be applied to All religions. One needs to keep an open mind and allow the spirit to absorb the logic of who/what God is without being inhibited by what should be considered outdated religious dogma and conditioning that has been a major contributing factor to the causes of terrorism.

Spiritual transcendence of a person's spirit into a Dimensional Beyondness was achieved by most well known religious leaders. Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, Bahá'u'lláh, Zoroaster, Ahmad, Nanak and many others of various faiths had achieved spiritual enlightenment by mastering the art of spiritual transcendence. Many were Transcendentalists who have changed the course of mankind. Social norms during the time period of their lives dictated their and their society's acceptance of a spiritual existence or a Supreme Spirit of Purity, (a God) of either, might, royalty, peace, or government. Dear Kurt,
nice to read your text. There are not so many busy in the science of god: 'Theology'; most are busy in scientifically based egocentric ignorance about spirituality - especially in this board.

Seems that you are born in 1941 - they have brought me in this world in 1943. My father is lost in World War II. In 1956 I have seen Jiddu Krishnamurti first time, and I have a great soul relationship to him. I was never involved in religions, but I have listen to that, what the individuals Lao=Tsu, Buddha, Socrates, Jesus, Rumi, and Kabir have told, and have studied the art & science of astrology for 40 years now. I do run a German web site with selected spiritual sources doormann.org with some pages in English for spiritual seekers.

Best

Volker

[emotional]

Ah, now there is a person who would take the transcendentalist message to heart. Kurt Kawohl, meet Volker Doorman, an adept astrologer.

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
There are not so many busy in the science of god: 'Theology';


You were expecting there to be many theologians on these boards, Volker? These boards, with "Infidels" in their name?!


most are busy in scientifically based egocentric ignorance about spirituality - especially in this board.


They wouldn't be ignorant if there were more conclusive evidence for things spiritual (note: I don't deny the existence of spiritual realms, but lacking evidence or experience of them, I take them on faith).

[kkawohl]

Originally posted by emotional


As I said, this debate would mostly involve exchanges of spiritual experiences, which would all be meaningful in some way and therefore useless in proving a point. I can't dispute Mr Kawohl when he describes an experience of "union with God" (calling it counterfeit is best left as a monopoly of the Christians), and he in turn can't dispute me when I say NDEs describe God as a separate, personal being. It's not a debate that can be won.

Anyway, I'm still of the opinion Kurt has come to the wrong place. He has a message of universal tolerance to preach, which is very good, but most people here don't need it (ie they already adhere to universal tolerance). He should go curing those who are sick - Christian and Muslim fundamentalists. [/B]

I would like to post a reply to this with an answer that will bend the rules somewhat as set forth in this forum and ask for the indulgence of the forum moderator....but I thoroughly understand his position if he deletes it....my purpose herby is not to promote or advertise my book...all of my writings can be accessed free of charge.

Transcendentalism Today - Press Release

Kurt Kawohl, author of a newly released book called "Transcendentalism - A New Revelation" is attempting to reinstitute Transcendentalism in the USA. He was born in Germany in 1941 and now lives in California where he is a Author/ Financial Advisor/ Real Estate Broker. It is his belief that the American Transcendental movement would have survived and thrived today if their philosophy had been more compatible with the majority American religious beliefs of spiritual inspirations and revelations together with insight as being an acceptable communicators of the truth.

In New England in the 19th-century Transcendentalists were known as writers and philosophers who adhered to an idealistic system of thought based on a belief in the essential unity of all creation, the innate goodness of man, and the supremacy of insight over logic and experience for the revelation of the deepest truths. The term Transcendentalism was derived from the German philosopher Immanuel Kant (1724-1804) who considered it a philosophy which holds that reasoning is the key to understanding reality and called "all knowledge transcendental which is concerned not with objects but with our mode of knowing objects". Ralph Waldo Emerson's interpretation of Transcendentalism was that it was a transcendental character or quality, a philosophy which stressed intuition and spirituality. Kurt's opinions are closely tied to Emerson's philosophy.

Kurt explores the origin of religious beliefs and religions. Although he credits most past religious leaders, writers and portrayed prophets of the "Holy Books" with having experienced spiritual interaction with a spiritual existence, Kurt attributes their mind's interpretation of these events as being blended with superstitions which was the norm of that time period. It is the author's claim that his concept of a spiritual deity is also derived through his own spiritual experiences and that the spiritual existence in the spiritual realm is in actuality a spiritual collective; the progressive and accumulative spiritual intelligence of the universe; an agglomeration of all of the righteous souls who have passed into the spiritual realm.

"Transcendentalism Today can influence the beginning of a new integration of rationality into many religions,” Kurt states, “In this 21st Century, the Age of Technology, we are still plagued by religious beliefs that is a contributing cause toward terrorism, killings and wars between nations. Belief in a deity who caused catastrophes, punished people and created the universe out of nothingness as if by magic was brought about by hysteria and superstitions. This thought process needs to be reassessed and brought up to date. Open-minded people must use common sense to determine whether this so-called deity was incorrectly perceived, misinterpreted and misunderstood by the masses of a bygone era. When peoples' concept is flawed, corrections, truth, logic and common sense thereof must eventually prevail. It is the attributes of human characteristics to exercise upon others power, control, dominance, destruction, punishment, revenge, judgment and not the attributes of a deity. Everyone is personally responsible for his own soul's destiny, the only requirement for achieving spiritual continuity is righteous living. The destruction of civilizations, most sufferings and premature deaths are due to human frailties, stupidity or imperfections and are not a deity's doings. The deity that mankind calls by several names exists in a spiritual realm and never has and never will interfere with anything on earth or in the universe."

Will Kurt's concept of Transcendentalism Today survive? Only time will tell. He has had dialogue with religious leaders worldwide and supplies the evidence thereof in his book. On a website catering primarily to active and retired military personnel, at Military.com
http://forums.military.com/1/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=78919038&f=409192893&m=8091959404&p=1 Kurt has posted his Transcendentalism opinions on who/what "God" is and supplied the website where his book can be accessed free of charge. http://transcendentalism.us Surprisingly over 10,000 people have visited there within a one year time period with many expressing their approval.

Lt. Colonel - US Air Force (retired) Melvin J. Beitscher wrote an email to Kurt stating, "As I near the end of your book and turn each page, I marvel at the insight, research and reading you have done to come to this point in your life and how you now affect so many more lives. Sometimes I lose a little hope for mankind but with you, and I know there are many like you, I realize that there is hope that we may transcend that which separates us. You have started that vital journey with a remarkable thesis in your book. Your courage to fly in the face of organized religion and see the truth behind the basics of all religion deserves a Nobel Prize. The courage you display in listing the correspondence with other learned people even though it may be at odds with your statements is to be commended. Christopher Phillips writes "It is not enough to have the courage of your convictions, you must also have the courage to have your convictions challenged". You have that courage and wisdom. Congratulations on a work long needed".

[kkawohl]

Originally posted by emotional
They wouldn't be ignorant if there were more conclusive evidence for things spiritual (note: I don't deny the existence of spiritual realms, but lacking evidence or experience of them, I take them on faith).

Every person is born with a spirit. A child’s spirit is a part of the mother's spirit which is passed down to the fetus and is then separated from its host at birth. It remains partially spiritually connected to the past host until it is capable of receiving its own data by the development of the child's reasoning capabilities at about 18 months from its birth. At that time the spirit separates from the mother and the child develops it's own spirit.

The spirit can not exist without a host. If the host or a mother with reasoning capabilities is not available during that time, the child's spirit bonds temporarily with the spirit of its physical provider. At about age 1 1/2 the spirit separates from the mother and the child develops it's own spirit.

The conscience relays information to the spirit. Consciousness arises when contact has been made with a base; (sense or emotion) this is when spirit initiates its first recording. The spirit is the database of the senses and emotions.

There are several levels of consciousness:

A. On a scale of 1 to 10 rating, with consciousness being level 1 where the spirit accumulates data and triggers emotions.
B. The upper level of subconsciousness is at level 2; involuntary subconscious reactions are sometimes manifested.
C. The dream level at 3; a series of thoughts and visions are introduced.
Level 4 is deep sleep.
D. Hibernation or very deep sleep is at level 5.
E. At level 6 unconsciousness sets in.
F. Spiritual data is stored between levels 6 and 9.
G. At 10 the subconscious is at a point of physical imminent death.
The "deserving" spirit that has established lines of communications with Spirit of God is transmitted to the spiritual realm, filtered and cleansed of all negative emotions; then it bonds with the Supreme Spirit.

When a personality disorder affects the data input process, data is filtered. Brain injury does not supersede the soul, at that point data input simply ceases. If one seems to have severely impaired reasoning capabilities it does not necessarily mean that reasoning capabilities are not, or never were present. Sometimes reasoning capabilities can not be displayed or communicated to another.

Being with spirit, unless one is completely emotionless, a spirit is present. One may say that emotions are psychological, (of the psyche) structuralism, psychobiological, but they are nevertheless of the spirit; which also subscribes to a form of natural selection.

The mind is unable to consciously communicate with the spirit. The conscience is the only communicator with the spirit or soul. The conscience relays information to the spirit unless the conscience is anesthetized by immoral acts or evil deeds.

The spirit or soul exists in the collective mental processes of the subconscious. The subconscious part of the mind and is also where the mental processes of creativity originate. The conscience adds to and stores life experiences with the spirit/soul. If the conscience is anesthetized by other than righteous conduct the existence of the spirit gradually fades and is eventually extinguished.

Namaste,
Kurt

[kkawohl]

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
Dear Kurt,
nice to read your text. There are not so many busy in the science of god: 'Theology'; most are busy in scientifically based egocentric ignorance about spirituality - especially in this board.

Seems that you are born in 1941 - they have brought me in this world in 1943. My father is lost in World War II. In 1956 I have seen Jiddu Krishnamurti first time, and I have a great soul relationship to him. I was never involved in religions, but I have listen to that, what the individuals Lao=Tsu, Buddha, Socrates, Jesus, Rumi, and Kabir have told, and have studied the art & science of astrology for 40 years now. I do run a German web site with selected spiritual sources doormann.org with some pages in English for spiritual seekers.

Best

Volker

Hi Volker,

You have an impressive site. Is there a possibility of having my theology displayed there?

Kurt

[emotional]

Kurt,

It's obvious to you, and it's partly obvious to me (though I rely much more on faith than on logic on that point), but were you to go to the Science and Skepticism Forum and open a debate on the spirit there, you would see all your arguments materialistically rebutted.

There is no watertight case for existence of the spirit and life after death. That's why I rely more on faith than on evidence.

[kkawohl]

emotional,

Evidence is proof, something that shows what is true. Truth is established by testifying, bearing witness, attesting, declaring under oath that what is testified to, is actuality. In a court of law, as in civil action, evidence is presented and the validity of this evidence is assessed by a judge or jury who rule on it; their decision is accepted and it is determined that proof has been established by a preponderance of the evidence

Throughout several millennia evidence has been presented that a spiritual existence, the Spirit of God has interacted with our spirit via inspiration to write what are considered Holy Scriptures and to be the cause of miraculous healings; many physicians will attest to the latter. This is evidence, proof of the existence of God. Evidence of God's existence can also be seen in God's insiration of man's compilations and complexities of everything in existence, from the complex DNA makeup of a single cell, to the makeup of the entire universe.

The power of the wind is a small comparison to the power of God's Spirit. The wind can gently caress as it wafts across the land, stirring wildflowers, thereby causing their seeds or pollen to be carried along currents to pollinate another, creating a new life. The wind can also be a force that is unequaled by any other. We can not see the wind. We can not see or physically talk with God, but our spirit can unite and be guided by God's Spirit to accomplish the seemingly impossible.

Our spirit can often control the well-being of our body. With inspiration from God's Spirit, our spirit, very much like the wind can carry us through our life's journey and experience the beauty of God's creative powers or we can choose to reject the interaction and muddle through life with no purpose, feeling empty, worthless and lonely. We can resonate despondency and gloom or bloom like the wildflower, bringing joy to many who have contact with us and live our lives with joy and the knowledge that we have a reason for living. One of your apparent reasons for being here is, in order to justify our beliefs even to ourselves, that we apply logic to our beliefs rather than blindly accept everything that we have read and been told.

To refute all this evidence of a spiritual existence by saying that all is possible without supreme guidance is to ignore proof. I KNOW that a spiritual existence is a reality.

You can not see the spiritual but you can feel the enlightenment of the spirit and you will recognize the truth.

Namaste,
Kurt

[emotional]

Then why do so many disbelieve?

[kkawohl]

Originally posted by emotional
Then why do so many disbelieve?

It is of no importance during our physical life whether God exists or not if one so chooses. Whether or not one believes in a spirit or God really makes no difference to God. Righteous living will determine the continuance and destiny of our spirit/soul.

One's life can be enhanced by receiving solace and being comforted during life's trials and tribulations by having our spirit inspired and blessed by the Spirit of God. This is normally man's only connection with God except when God’s Spirit interacts with a person’s spirit directly; God’s messenger. However, the Ultimate Truth is indecipherable by the human mind and can only be divulged to the spirit which also often misinterprets its meaning, hence we have various religions and beliefs.

All religions have the same goal. Our intelligence compared to God is like that of a 2 year old child. God will make allowances for our ignorance.

The Scenario

The souls of a Rabbi, a Christian minister, and a Islamic cleric appeared at the gates of heaven at the same time and they eye each other suspiciously. The gatekeeper asked if there is a problem.

The Rabbi tells St. Peter , "Ours is the true religion. We have the word of God that this is so and it is written in the Torah that God said that we are the chosen children of God, not the Christians or the Muslims."

The Christian minister says, "Jesus told us that he is the son of God and that the only way to God was by following his teachings and that unless one is born again, one would not get into heaven. What Jesus said is the word of God and it is written in the holy Bible".

The Muslim cleric says, "God has told Muhammad that he was the last true prophet and that everything that God told him was written in the Qur’an and that those who did not follow what was written there, would not get into heaven. Islam is the only true faith which has been promised to be free from being wiped away from its true path. We believe in a Prophet, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad , to be the Messiah that was foretold by all faiths, and he sowed the seeds for our community to guide all of the various faiths under the banner of Islam, towards allah.”

Other souls appeared and some sided with and gathered around each of their leaders, while some other souls who sided with no one entered directly through the gates of heaven.

The gatekeeper told the souls who had gathered around the souls of their clerics, "In heaven there can be no disagreement and until you all are in agreement, you have to move to the Purgatory area".

No agreement was reached and eventually the souls died (Hell) because souls who were not with God could not exist.

The lesson is: Having tunnel-vision or being closed-minded, without compassion for the belief of others around you can be bad for the body and suicide to the soul.

Kurt

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by kkawohl
Hi Volker,

You have an impressive site. Is there a possibility of having my theology displayed there? Hi Kurt,

I think not. But we can speak about a link or a hint to a book, or something else.

Best

Volker

[kkawohl]

To understand the concept of who or what God is and whether God exists, one needs to use the “analytical theory of the A priori.” In order to realistically interpret whether God created man or the beginning of God was the result of the consciousness of the first souls that survived physical death one has to start at the beginning of the universe.

Conceptual time is interpreted as being continuous and infinite, having one irreversible dimension. One interpretation of the beginning of the universe is by looking at the “big bang theory” where nothingness, trillions and more years ago, was a vacuum and space at the beginning was empty of matter. An explosion from a compression of atoms, caused the “big bang”. This, in theory, was the beginning of the universe. Some atomic particles possess vast amounts of energy and energy or life and is a fundamental attribute and function of the universe; it infers that an equivalent quantity of physical energy was expended in creating the atom. In the beginning atoms were created from energy and came into existence from nothingness, which can be vacuum or space that is empty of matter.

Upon determining how atoms originated we can then rationalize that atoms formed compounds. Modern atomic theory is generally said to begin with John Dalton, an English chemist and meteorologist who in 1808 published a book on the atmosphere and the behavior of gases that was entitled A New System of Chemical Philosophy. Dalton's theory of atoms rested on four basic ideas: chemical elements were composed of atoms; the atoms of an element were identical in weight; the atoms of different elements had different weights; and atoms combined only in small whole-number ratios, such as 1:1, 1:2, 2:1, 2:3, to form compounds. Continuity is an uninterrupted connection in space, time, operation or development. To have an initial connection or junction, it must have a starting point then continuity. A circle can not be created without a starting point.

In recent years, we have learned that 95% of the Universe is made of a type of matter or energy that we cannot see nor understand. Gravity may ripple across the Universe in waves, and certain cosmic rays, atomic particles moving at near light speed, possess an energy far greater than that which can be explained by modern physics. In the theory of relativity, the intuitive notion of time as an independent entity is replaced by the concept that space and time are intertwined and inseparable aspects of a four-dimensional universe, which is given the name space-time. Einstein sought unsuccessfully for many years to incorporate the theory into a unified field theory valid also for subatomic and electromagnetic phenomena.

Any and all of our scientific facts known presently are applicable only to this physical third dimension. The existence of a fourth dimension its still being vastly debated. If we represent thought and emotion which is not physical, as being spiritual or of the soul, we must then accept the existence of another, a fourth dimension where these processes thrive. Our Mind, Thought, Truth, Intuition, Intelligence, Appreciation and Awareness are all aspects of a spiritual fourth dimension. With the evolution from life forms in the third dimension we can then deduct that the spiritual dimension, God, came about through life in the third dimension. The universe is the encompassment of ALL (matter, energy, space, time) that exists in a physical, material, tangible or intangible, natural or unnatural state in this dimension, Our soul contains the records of our spiritual life within the subconscious and it is composed of consciousness, awareness, thoughts, and emotions. Physically we are all atoms, spiritually we are all energy. Energy exists in both, the physical and spiritual plane. Energy is like electro-magnetic energy, or light. It is carried by photons; it can cross-convert back and forth with solid matter, according to the ratio E=MC^2, and when in the energy form, its propagation speed is limited to C, which is the speed of light, approximately 300,000 km/sec.

Did Life begin on earth? All of what we can presently see of the universe, its billions of stars, the galaxies, and other solar systems with its planets only represent less than 2% of the total existence of the universe. It is naïve of us to assume that throughout the trillions of years past that life has only existed on our small world and therefore the spiritual existence, God, came about through mankind. We can compare our knowledge to the collective spiritual consciousness, the beginning of God and the beginning of life in the universe as that of a two year old child who is just developing its reasoning abilities. Our world status within the universe is comparable to a mere grain of sand, a simple molecule that makes up the vast expanse of the universe.

God is spiritual and is the progressive and accumulative spiritual intelligence of the universe; of all the righteous souls who have passed into the spiritual realm. Spiritual transcendence of a person's spirit into a "Dimensional Beyondness" was achieved by most well known religious leaders. Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, Bahá'u'lláh, Zoroaster, Ahmad, Nanak and many others of various faiths had achieved spiritual enlightenment by mastering the art of spiritual transcendence. God does not and never has meddled in the tangible universe. It is of no importance during our physical life whether God exists or not if one so chooses. Whether or not one believes in a spirit or God really makes no difference to God. Righteous living will determine the continuance and destiny of our spirit/soul.

One's life can be enhanced by receiving solace and being comforted during life's trials and tribulations by having our spirit inspired and blessed by the Spirit of God. This is normally man's only connection with God except when God’s Spirit interacts with a person’s spirit directly; God’s messenger. However, the Ultimate Truth is indecipherable by the human mind and can only be divulged to the spirit which also often misinterprets its meaning, hence we have various religions and beliefs.

Kurt Kawohl

Transcendentalism, Org. with Kurt Kawohl as its founder is a member of:
IONS - Institute of Noetic Sciences
World Interfaith Congress
United Communities of Spirit
Alliance for Spiritual Community
Interfaith Voices for Peace And Justice

http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Culture/Showcase/Stories2/kawohl1_transcendentalism1_novel.html

http://www.transcendentalism.us/

http://www.authorzone.com/view_authors.php?authorid=1426

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kkawohl