Darwin's Demise

[uhcord]

Has there been any reviews that debunk this book? A friend recently gave it to me, I of course plan to read it; but I also want to give my friend a review of it to read as I read the book.

Thanks in advance guys! :)

[Dr.GH]

What book? I am perhaps being too particular, but would you please give a proper citation?

[Porky Pine]

The only thing I could find was one a reader wrote in to Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/089051352X/ref=cm_cr_dp_2_1/104-4936703-8447909?v=glance&s=books&vi=customer-reviews).

" I work part-time at a bookstore while finishing my degree in zoology. A few weeks ago, Dr. Comninellis, this book's co-author, came into the bookstore and asked us if we would be kind enough to supply this book on our shelves. He gave us a promotional copy, which I read out of sheer morbid curiosity.

This book is infuriating on so many levels. Above all, as an aspiring writer myself, it's so disheartening to see that a book so void of any real content could be sold to a publisher and placed into circulation. And as a zoology student one semester away from graduation, I'm downright offended that discoveries made over the past 140 years of biological science are so blatantly misrepresented, misinterpreted, and, well...in many cases, the authors have simply made-up their 'facts'. A few examples:

--Earth is no more than 6,000 years old. This is proven by adding up the ages of Adams descendants in the bible. Furthermore, the earth's strata contain a large amount of evidence of a 6,000-year-old earth.
--Because the earth is so young, dinosaurs and humans MUST have co-existed.
--Horses are primates.
--Spontaneous generation is the basis of the evolutionary theory.
--Since Louis Pasteur disproved spontaneous generation, the theory of evolution does not hold.
--Many biological phenomena (insect metamorphosis, flight patterns of migratory birds, communications between dolphins) are impossible because they break the laws of physics.
--According to evolutionary thought, single-celled organisms turned into jellyfish, jellyfish into bony fish, fish into reptiles, reptiles into birds, cows into whales (?), and apes into men. (***Ah, if only it was that simple!***)

This is a mere sample. In addition, the authors severely misquote some of the most respected minds in science, including Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein, Stephen Jay Gould, Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins, and Niles Eldredge (to name a few). If they had actually READ the books they've listed in the bibliography--heck, even ONE of them--they'd realize how far their feet are now lodged in their mouths.

But what takes the cake is this quote: "Adolf Hitler is a dramatic example of evolutionary thought in action (p. 153)." The authors have even illustrated this paragraph with a photograph of a pile of decaying bodies in a concentration camp. Yes, Hitler argued that one race was biologically more advanced than other, as did every genocidal maniac who obtained power over the masses. But he, like the authors of this book, blatantly misinterpreted the concepts of evolutionary science. In fact, a brief study of human evolution will shatter any 'justifications' for racism and supremacy. The authors are so caught up in the "my grampa ain't no ape" mentality that they are completely blind to this.

Religion is not science and science is not religion; therefore, one cannot replace the other and a person who studies both is not a hypocrite. I don't think for one minute that an evolutionary scientist cannot be a devout Christian. But I find it a bit frightening that Dr. Comninellis, a practitioner of family medicine and public health (according to his business card), either never attended so much as a freshman biology course or has completely rejected so much of what his medical training attempted to teach him.

The authors have offered no viable arguement for creationism. Even the so-called 'creation-scientists' should be offended at such a poor addition to their cause. This book has no educational value at all, unless you are inquiring just how to become the laughing stock of the entire scientific community. "

[uhcord]

Dr.GH: Sorry that I was unclear, the name of the book is the title of the thread (Darwin's Demise), and the authors are: Dr.Joe White and Dr.Nicholas Comninellis.

Porky Pine: Thanks a bunch. I just started reading it, and just got to page 15. I agree with the person who wrote the review.

[Porky Pine]

When you get to the part where they tell you that horses are primates, tell us about it. I'd never heard that one before.

[trunks2k]

From a brief search on google, Dr. White seems to be a psychologist, hardly a person to be conisdered an expert on the subject.

And a quick search of Dr. Nicholas Comninellis only comes up with his name in reference to the book in question. The only site I could find which gives his actual occupatoin is at www.darwinsdemise.com/main.html which says he his a academic pysician at the University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Medicine.

[Arken]

Horses are primates? Buh? Who's ass did they pull that one out of?

[Roland98]

Horses are primates.

Hmm, I'd never heard that bizarre claim before. I second the request to add some more info when you get to that part.

--Spontaneous generation is the basis of the evolutionary theory.
--Since Louis Pasteur disproved spontaneous generation, the theory of evolution does not hold.

:banghead: As if anyone is talking about a complex organism like fly larvae (or even bacteria) being the first "life form." I love Pasteur, but I wish sometimes people were more ignorant of his more famous experiments--because they give them implications that they don't deserve. :mad:

--Many biological phenomena (insect metamorphosis, flight patterns of migratory birds, communications between dolphins) are impossible because they break the laws of physics.

Well, this is interesting...so is the author saying then that metamorphosis, migration, and communication don't happen? Or that if they evolved, that would break the laws of physics? :confused: I don't understand what the implications of that statement are.

[uhcord]

trunks2k: Yup, that was actually the first thing I did, when my friend gave me the book. I had a hunch before I even started reading it, that the authors where Dr.'s in a field that basically has nothing to do with evolution. :)

[RBH]

Joe White (http://www.kanakuk.com/joebio.asp) has a (1970) Bachelor's in biology from SMU. His doctorate is honorary, in education, from Southwest Baptist University. He's a Promise Keepers/Focus on the Family speaker, and owns a chain of Christian athletic camps (konsistently and kloyingly spelled "kamps").

Comninelis (http://www.darwinsdemise.com/bio.html) is an MD, teaches public health and family medicine at UMKC. He's also associated with White's Kamps.

Here's (http://www.darwinsdemise.com/dd.html) an example of the level of science in the book from Chapter 1:Each species of living thing has its own unique gene pool or genetic code.Given that, I can believe that they'd claim that horses are primates.

RBH

[DMB]

Please, please post a short quote her when you get to the horse are primates bit!

[River]

Didnt prehistoric horses have 5 digits before they fused over (some) time?

[DMB]

What's that got to do with their supposed status as primates?

[River]

uhm.....primates have 5 fingers.

[pz]

Originally posted by River
uhm.....primates have 5 fingers. So? We don't use plesiomorphies to specify biological subgroups.

[Albion]

You may not. Doesn't mean a creationist book won't.

[DMB]

River: I think you are committing the logical fallacy of the undistributed middle as in:

All cats have 4 legs
All dogs have 4 legs
Therefore all cats are dogs

[River]

I did not commit a logical fallacy. I was merely stating why the author might believe what he/she believes.

You on the other hand committed a logical fallacy by asserting that I committed a logical fallacy.

[DMB]

River: I was merely stating why the author might believe what he/she believes.
Sorry if I misunderstood you. Your post didn't make it clear that that was what you were doing.

[Mageth]

konsistently and kloyingly spelled "kamps"

On a road trip this weekend, I passed a sign for a restaurant called Kuntry Kitchen.

Horses are primates? Buh? Who's ass did they pull that one out of?

He said horses, not asses. Asses are obviously lagomorphs, what with the long ears and all.

As to the OP, that book sounds self-debunking.

[Alludium Fozdex]

Originally posted by Roland98
Well, this is interesting...so is the author saying then that metamorphosis, migration, and communication don't happen? Or that if they evolved, that would break the laws of physics? :confused: I don't understand what the implications of that statement are.I think the implication is that, since these things :banghead:"break the laws of physics":banghead: they can only be Miracles of Gawd™...

[Alludium Fozdex]

Bump!

Still waiting to see a quote of that incredible boner about horses being primates...

[scombrid]

Originally posted by River
uhm.....primates have 5 fingers.

But what about those six fingered creationists? New Kind?

[Phaycops]

I too am deeply, deeply curious about how horses are primates. Do tell!

Furthermore, the earth's strata contain a large amount of evidence of a 6,000-year-old earth.

Gee, in six years of university geology classes, I must have missed this :rolleyes:

So is this book available everywhere, like at Barnes and Noble, or is it not in such widespread distribution yet? I'd like to take a glance through just for a laugh.

[Alludium Fozdex]

It has been quite a while since this thread was up.

We never did find out about how horses are supposed to be primates...

[pangloss]

Originally posted by RBH
Joe White (http://www.kanakuk.com/joebio.asp) has a (1970) Bachelor's in biology from SMU. His doctorate is honorary, in education, from Southwest Baptist University. He's a Promise Keepers/Focus on the Family speaker, and owns a chain of Christian athletic camps (konsistently and kloyingly spelled "kamps").

Comninelis (http://www.darwinsdemise.com/bio.html) is an MD, teaches public health and family medicine at UMKC. He's also associated with White's Kamps.

Here's (http://www.darwinsdemise.com/dd.html) an example of the level of science in the book from Chapter 1:Given that, I can believe that they'd claim that horses are primates.

RBH

What scares me is that an MD can be so fucking stupid as to write or agree with that..

[Betenoire]

Originally posted by pangloss
What scares me is that an MD can be so fucking stupid as to write or agree with that..

I thank the Med School prof who refused to give degrees to his students who believed in Creation.


By the by, my iguana has five fingers (I think most, if not all, land chordata and some fish do) I'm a lizard.

[trillian]

We can certainly see where this "science" book is heading in chapter 1:

Trouble was growing on earth, for people were ignoring God and treating one another cruelly. God decided to obliterate life and start over again. He chose Noah to build an ark - a giant boat - and fill it with a male and female of every type of animal.

Up until this time there was a water canopy over the earth... blah blah blah

Also in the excerpt page (below where we learn that macroevolution is impossible) is a list of Impressive Adherents to this creation "science". The picture to the left is of Albert Einstein, who is, of course, NOT an adherent. Such deception!

Here's the page
http://www.darwinsdemise.com/dd.html


Oh and his warning of bias a the the end of the page?
Bias means our tendency to find what we first decided we want to find, rather than what’s actually there. It means our inclination to see what we really desire to see, rather than seeing what actually exists.

People are prone to let their individual bias get in the way logical thinking.

ha ha ha ha!!! that really got me :eek: :D

The language used suggests that this book was written at about a 5th or 6th grade reading level, maybe younger.

Oh yes, I too want to know why a horse is a primate!

trillian

[lpetrich]

Originally posted by Betenoire
By the by, my iguana has five fingers (I think most, if not all, land chordata and some fish do) I'm a lizard. For all except some of the earliest land vertebrates, five digits on each limb is the maximum, and also the ancestral state, though many have fewer than that. And in many cases, some digits will be much smaller than others, which often suggests incomplete disappearance.

In the case of horses, their fossil record shows very clearly how they came to have only one digit on each limb. Hyracotherium, which lived back in the Eocene, had 4 front-foot digits and 3 hind-foot digits, though most fossil horses have had 3 digits on each foot. The middle digit becomes enlarged and the side digits shrunken until they become tiny splints. Interestingly, present-day horses are sometimes born with side digits.

Something similar is evident in even-toed ungulates, where one can often see shrunken digits on each side of the two main ones of each foot.

Dogs and cats have four well-developed digits in each foot, and often a short fifth one, whose claw is a dewclaw.

[Rhaedas]

On the topic of horses being primates, the horses say, "Neigh". :D

[Aethernaut]

Originally posted by RBH
Comninelis (http://www.darwinsdemise.com/bio.html) is an MD, teaches public health and family medicine at UMKC. He's also associated with White's Kamps.

Here (http://www.google.com/u/umkc?num=100&site=none&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&q=Comninellis&spell=1) are some references to Dr. Comninellis' illustrious career at UMKC.

He has travelled extensively and done some medical work in developing countries as well as being honored with the UMKC "Take Wing Award." Currently, he seems to be little more than a teacher of medical bureaucracy which I don't think quite qualifies him as an evolutionary biologist. Of course, when did that ever stop the creationists.

[Daisy]

It's perhaps a typo, but:

The situation with dogs is similar. All dogs are variations within the single species, Canis familutris. Whether a little Chihuahua or a German Shepard, a beagle or a bulldog, all dogs have the same basic gene pool that makes them distinctly dogs. Humans, of course, have bread dogs to create special breeds. But they are all still dogs.
Bread dogs are ok but weiner dogs are tastier.

[RBH]

Originally posted by Rhaedas
On the topic of horses being primates, the horses say, "Neigh". :D Who can blame them? :p

RBH

[KC]

Originally posted by Gerald
It has been quite a while since this thread was up.

We never did find out about how horses are supposed to be primates...

If whales can be crocodiles, then horses can be primates. :D

KC