Everett sued over Ten Commandments - merged threads

[trientalis]

This just in from the Seattle PI (apologies if this has already been posted--I looked but didn't see it)

Everett sued over Ten Commandments (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/aplocal_story.asp?category=6420&slug=WA%20Everett%20Ten%20Commandments)

Given the apparently secular nature of western Washington, I was a bit surprised to read this. One would think that after multiple decisions striking down these sorts of displays, local municipalities might get on with moving them to less public locations, but I guess they're waiting for the Supreme Court to rule on the issue.

Any comments?

[beejay]

I'm surprised too. There are a lot of such monuments in the Midwest, but I thought Washington would have been more enlightened on the subject.

If Everett is smart, they'll give it to some local organization. It's not likely they could win a fight to keep the monument on public ground.

[Jewel]

Views split over Everett monument (http://www.heraldnet.com/Stories/03/7/25/17255203.cfm)

EVERETT -- Presbyterian minister Roger Rice fervently believes in the Ten Commandments. But Rice also agrees with Everett atheist Jesse Card that the Ten Commandments monument that stands just a block away from his church should come down.

"This is certainly an expression of one tradition, the Judeo-Christian perspective," said Rice, pastor of First Presbyterian Church.

"By being in a public place like this, it takes other religious traditions and says they are lesser, and that gets translated into people," he said. "It uses the guise of religious language to say that someone's inferior. But we are all equal in the eyes of God."


It's nice to see the media showing that there are Christians that support seperation.

Unfortunately, there are plenty more that don't:

Pastor Brian Harpell of First Baptist Church of Everett, a block north of the monument, acknowledged that the monument has religious connotations, but he said rather than promoting religion, the display simply "recognizes the early influence of religion on our nation and our city."

"Unfortunately, we have moved in our times to an intolerance of anything that bears even slight resemblance to religion," he said.


I do not see an intolerance of religion here -- Card is not requesting that the monument be destroyed -- he is not asking that Christianity be made illegal. He just wants religious monuments to be kept to private property.


City Councilman Mark Olson, an attorney, said the Ten Commandments "are woven into our legal, social and cultural life. Even if one does not believe in God, it would be a good creed to live by."

I dissagree. A couple of the commandments resemble laws that we have, but those laws existed prior to the rise of Christianity. And as an atheist I find the very first one (and undoubtedly the most important) absolutely repugnant.

[gsx1138]

Enlightened? I see you guys haven't been to Everett. :p

[beejay]

Originally posted by gsx1138
Enlightened? I see you guys haven't been to Everett. :p

Hey, I said more enlightened.

I see you haven't been to the Midwest. ;)

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally posted by beejay
Hey, I said more enlightened.

I see you haven't been to the Midwest. ;)
Boy howdy, ain't that the truth. In this neck of the woods legislators think nothing of, oh, say, yanking a verse right out of the New Testament and turning it into a state motto!

[Jewel]

Everett Unswayed By Alabama Commandments Case (http://www.kirotv.com/news/2439548/detail.html)

EVERETT, Wash. -- The removal of a 2 1/2-ton Ten Commandments monument from the Alabama Supreme Court building hasn't dented the city of Everett's resolve. It's fighting to keep a 6-foot-tall version of the biblical edict in front of the old City Hall.

"These cases, they're not as clear-cut as some people would like to believe," City Attorney Mark Soine says. "We believe what we're doing is in the confines of the Constitution."

Constitutional scholars and legal precedent indicate otherwise. In a nearly identical case, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear a 2001 appeal of a ruling that the town of Elkhart, Ind., had to remove a similar monument donated by the same group that gave Everett its monolith.

That group, the Fraternal Order of Eagles, donated such displays to many American cities in the 1950s -- an idea promoted by a juvenile court judge in Minnesota and Cecil B. DeMille, who produced the film "The Ten Commandments."

Everett's monument has been in front of the old City Hall -- now the police station -- since 1959.

Some cities are just determined to waste taxpayor money. :banghead:

[xorbie]

"We believe what we're doing is in the confines of the Constitution."

Well, in their defense, it does seem to more likely than some of their other beliefs....

[Toto]

Legal Bills Mount (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/snohomishcountynews/2001925699_command12n.html)

. . . .


In March, Mayor Ray Stephanson cut $3.5 million from the 2004 budget and laid off 17 permanent and seven seasonal employees. He said the city would need to cut $3.7 million more from next year's budget. He has told neighborhood groups that one reason the city needs to cut services is because of unanticipated legal expenses, including this case.

. . .

In a nearly identical case, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear a 2001 appeal of a ruling that the city of Elkhart, Ind., had to remove a similar monument donated by the Fraternal Order of Eagles, the same group that gave Everett its monolith.

[tracer]

Don't monuments depicting the Ten Commandments violate the 2nd Commandment themselves?

[RufusAtticus]

Don't monuments depicting the Ten Commandments violate the 2nd Commandment themselves?

Or as a christian protestor shouted when Alabama was moving Roy's Rock, "Get yer hands off my God."

[Lycius]

Given the apparently secular nature of western Washington, I was a bit surprised to read this.

I'm surprised too. There are a lot of such monuments in the Midwest, but I thought Washington would have been more enlightened on the subject.

Try not to confuse Washington State as a whole, or even western Washington with Seattle. From my experience, once you leave the Seattle metropolitan area you can pretty much leave any preconceptions of "most secular, most college educated city in the US" behind, as they're like two separate worlds (some great outdoor spots though. Beautiful coastline, coupla dormant volcanoes, a desert . . . even got a rainforest.)

That said, having been to the midwest (primarily the tri-state area of Ohio, West Virginia panhandle, and western Pennsylvania), yah, the midwest is definitely more steeped in old-time evangelical religion. Still, there are deeply religious people all over the US, and when they're moving into an area, they tend to congregate where they find others who believe as they do. You know, "Nice Christian neighborhood with a corner church, nice pastor, you should meet him." That kinda thing.

The mixing of cultures definitely doesn't go over well in a lawsuit-happy country, that's for sure. What's most unfortunate is that this kind of thing leads to lawsuits such as these, thus costing everyone in the region far more than the issue is worth. The court costs could provide several schools with decent computers and updated textbooks. IMO, if the city had any real concern for its citizens, it wouldn't even be attempting to "legally" defend having the monument there. It'd just move it.

[Octokun]

As a side note, I used to live in Everett between 1990 and 1997 and during my time there I had thought that the city was a mostly secular place. (which was one of the reasons I wanted to move out, being a religious fundy at the time. How ironic)

[Sauron]

This just in from the Seattle PI (apologies if this has already been posted--I looked but didn't see it)

Everett sued over Ten Commandments (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/aplocal_story.asp?category=6420&slug=WA%20Everett%20Ten%20Commandments)

Given the apparently secular nature of western Washington, I was a bit surprised to read this. One would think that after multiple decisions striking down these sorts of displays, local municipalities might get on with moving them to less public locations, but I guess they're waiting for the Supreme Court to rule on the issue.

Any comments?

It's not as unbelievable as you might think. Everett is a military town with lots of conservatives. Plus, several mega-churches are located in north King County / south Snohomish County.

[Stephen Maturin]

City of Everett to ACLJ: "Go piss up a rope." (http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/04/06/11/loc_monument001.cfm)

Well, okay, that isn't the actual title of the article, but the message is crystal clear. :D

City officials have turned down an offer by a conservative Virginia group founded by the Rev. Pat Robertson to pay for Everett's legal defense of its Ten Commandments monument.

The city has paid a Seattle law firm $70,000 to defend it against a lawsuit alleging that the monument outside City Council chambers violates the U.S. Constitution's prohibition of state endorsement of religion. The city expects to spend at least $30,000 more.

* * *

Mayor Ray Stephanson said contracting with the group, which Robertson founded in 1990, could have undermined Everett's legal argument that the monument represents universal values and legal principles, not a particular religion.

"We studied the background of the American Center for Law and Justice and felt it would put our defense in an entirely different light," the mayor said.

The center's mission statement says it is "committed to the defense of Judeo-Christian values." (Emphasis added.)