My horoscope was dead on!

[Stephen T-B]

Hello Volker.
Just wondering: are the questions I asked not the kind that astrology is able to answer?

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Stephen T-B
Hello Volker.
Just wondering: are the questions I asked not the kind that astrology is able to answer? Hello Stephen,
I tell you what. Mrs. Penny Thornton is an astrologer. She has written in book bublished in 1995 in NY about an event in the future of 1997.
[Begin of cites from a book ISBN 0-671-89186-3 Pocket Book, New York, Printing January 1995]
" In the second dream, which I will recount in the present tense since that is how I recorded it in my diary, I am sitting in a sand dune having a picnic. Diana comes towards me, dressed in white with a black cloak around her . She sits down besides me. I feel awkward and unprepared for her sudden and unannounced arrival. She is telling me about someone who is called Peter, who has been fired because of her. Apparently he is going to France and will be undergoing plastic surgery to conceal his identity. She goes on to talk me about William, and while she does this, she holds up a large figure 3 . She then begins to cry, and I comfort her, urging her not to give up on the marriage. She recovers her composure and I take up the topic of Peter, refering to him as a past relationship. "Its's not over. It's very much on, " she says. ...
... I escort her out to her car, and when I return, William is seated in the same chair. He is much older {1989 William was 7} and sporting a beard. He says to me. "They don't tell me everything, you know. For a few minutes we lost complete radio contact with them ... " As he was saying this to me, I saw an event from an aerial point of view Two police motorcycles and a white car streaming ahead, leaving a black car on its own. Two vans approch from either side and prevent the black car from moving forward. [!] The dream ends in chaos and I hear my own voice saying, "Isn't anyone going to do anything ...?"
"...sitting at a large desk, was Her Majesty the Queen. She was delivering a somber speech, but no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't hear what she was saying...."
" [Charles and Diana] were posing for photographs and were seated...on a child's rocking horse. Diana was laughing and Charles was urging her to be more responsible and to look serious for the cameras. There was a flash and a large explosion. All that was left on the stage was an empty car seat on a raised dais."
From this (http://doormann.org/ladydi.htm) you can learn about this. Is science not able to answer on this telling of the future facts?

[Stephen T-B]

Thank you.
Your reply leads me to think that astrology
is able to answer the kind of questions I asked.
I am most encouraged by that, and very much look forward to reading your forecasts in respect of one or more of them.

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Stephen T-B
Thank you.
Your reply leads me to think that astrology
is able to answer the kind of questions I asked.
I am most encouraged by that, and very much look forward to reading your forecasts in respect of one or more of them. Hello Stephen,
In an answer to echidna in this thread I have written a little bit of that, what is to be seen by astrology and what is not. From this post today I have the impression, that you have not read in full this long thread, what I have assumed before.

Astrology is able to analyze structures and times of special character, but to my knowledge astrology cannot be taken to state specific detailed events for what you have asked. As I have shown, astrology is a simple tool analyzing the planetary aspects, to describe for example a time of crashes full of energy if such planetary constellations is as today, and in the last two weeks. There is no mystic involved, no future seeing, still some knowledge of symbols.

That what Mrs. Penny Thornton has written is not from her knowledge from astrology, but from her sensitivity for the ‘atmosphere’ of the psychic ‘weather’ in general. I never have spoken on this in this forum, but I have discussed with some scientist of Quantum Mechanics, and there is not really a reason, why some future (or past) events should not to be perceived by the consciousness. But it is senseless to discuss this here. Not one acknowledgement was paid to any of those crashes last time.

Astrology can be learned successfully also by Quantum physicists, because it is a logic system, and I do know a lot of physicists, who are satisfied because of its logic.

I do not make predictions in general, but I have learned to analyze a human character from a birth chart. I had taken a view in that of Lunachick here and I have interpreted her something out of that blind, and she has agreed on this in the end.

I am not the astrology. There are millions of astrologers doing their job for money. You can study astrology on a university, and can make a promotion in sociology on it on the Sourbone, France.

Volker

[Stephen T-B]

You are perceptive, Volker: I did not read all the thread. As you point out, it is very long.

Your reply, however, does make me wonder what practical value astrology has.

(One test would be to ask you to read my birth chart, but I shan’t do that because I realise you did not come to this discussion with any intention of doing such a thing, and secondly because I do not have all the information you would need, for example, the time of my birth.)

But I would like to ask this: if you did read my birth chart, and it told me things about myself I already knew, what would be the point of that?

Could it tell me stuff I didn't already know? For instance, how I would behave if I saw a child drowning (would I risk my life in an effort to save that child, or wait to see if someone else would risk his life, or be frozen by indecision? Could astrology tell me with as much certainty as the actual experience?)
Could it tell me how I would react if I were in a crashing aeroplane? If I saw my wife being attacked? If I were held hostage in a bank hold-up? If I were told I had an incurable disease and had only nine months to live?

If I gave you the time, place and date of my grandson’s birth, would you be able to tell me what illnesses he is prone to? What foods, if any, he should avoid? Whether he is likely to marry once or several times and how many children he will have, or not marry at all? Would you be able to tell me what career he will choose? Where he will decide to live? Whether he will remain on good terms with his parents and his brother?Whether his life will be beset by crisis and tragedy?

In other words, Volker, is astrology useful?

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Stephen T-B
(One test would be to ask you to read my birth chart, but I shan’t do that because I realise you did not come to this discussion with any intention of doing such a thing, and secondly because I do not have all the information you would need, for example, the time of my birth.) One phone call to your birth town birth register.
But I would like to ask this: if you did read my birth chart, and it told me things about myself I already knew, what would be the point of that?

Could it tell me stuff I didn't already know? For instance, how I would behave if I saw a child drowning (would I risk my life in an effort to save that child, or wait to see if someone else would risk his life, or be frozen by indecision? Could astrology tell me with as much certainty as the actual experience?)

Could it tell me how I would react if I were in a crashing aeroplane? If I saw my wife being attacked? If I were held hostage in a bank hold-up? If I were told I had an incurable disease and had only nine months to live?

If I gave you the time, place and date of my grandson’s birth, would you be able to tell me what illnesses he is prone to? What foods, if any, he should avoid? Whether he is likely to marry once or several times and how many children he will have, or not marry at all? Would you be able to tell me what career he will choose? Where he will decide to live? Whether he will remain on good terms with his parents and his brother? Whether his life will be beset by crisis and tragedy?

In other words, Volker, is astrology useful? Many questions. I think your assuming is not that, what you can learn from a chart interpretation. There are many aspects to learn from such a chart. The - in my view - most important point is - if you agree with that, what is written about your character -, that you can learn, that your character is not you, but you have a character (and a car). Same as you have a special hair color and a special skin color, from the DNA from your parents, which is not really you, the character is given as a physical structure in the brain to you, who ever you may be. You have this character, but you are not this character.

Next point is, why do you have this character, and not the character of for example Saddam Hussein? What is the cause? If you know that, why it is, then you can make service on this, as you make service on your body.

You have spoken out questions, containing special things regarding to your thoughts. These thoughts are busy with scenarios of preserving life. Astrology then will explain to you, what are the reason of this busyness in your thinking, and maybe you can perceive then, that your ideas on this are a simple mind program seeing enemies, that runs without your control of a higher consciousness about your mind structures.

The way you can go is to learn on this controlling of your character being all time aware on it. Events as above have not really a meaning in astrology. If you never have read a chart interpretation you can read one here (http://doormann.tripod.com/no3x.htm). If you have a grandson, you do not need really such analysis, because you knows you well. But think about, that such analysis can be made minutes after birth, and can give help to understand the very own character of the child. And understanding is also respecting. Knowing nothing about a character of a child for long, can lead to problems and more. A character is a tool of the being, with that the being is able or not able to act. Some people do change the world, and others are satisfied having a wife and a car. One can make use of it, but the ‘one’ is the ‘one’ who must understand his tools, to be able to act adequate with that, for his own and for the community.

Next to this all you can learn, that causality is not only a law in physics, but also a general law in nature. A disorder in nature created by a being as cause creates an effect. But this effect arrives for sure. Some people are thinking, that each morning and each life there is a reset button, that make actions undo. Is not.

The hole philosophy on this is to be recognized starting the understanding of the special own character maybe with the help of astrology.

Volker

[Relative Newcomer]

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
You can observe this by yourself, if in August around 27th 2003, when the angles of the planets (Mars, Uranus Sun) are showing a time for earthquake, terror and similar crashes on our earth.

Let's all stop, drop and roll...THE TIME IS NIGH.

[Arken]

I felt a little wobbly this morning, but I think that was due to the vodka martinis I was having last night. ;)

[Stephen T-B]

I don’t really want to press the button and get another lot of stuff from Volker because his posts read like he wrote them in German and then used an instant translator to turn them into English, and trying to understand them makes my old brain ache.
There are, however, points to be made.
1) Astrology originates from a time when the sun, moon, planets and stars belonged to the order of divine beings; their movements and conjunctions were therefore interpreted as having a divine purpose, either to influence us poor mortals or to presage great earthly events.

2) Modern-day astrologers buy into this mythology, as though we didn’t now know that the constellations of the Zodiac are completely random and arbitrary arrangements of stars and galaxies, spread over millions of light years; as though we didn’t now know what the galaxies and stars are, that our sun is a star, that the planets - some small and rocky, some vast and gaseous - are its satellites.

3) Astrology survives for the very reason that it generates such a vast number of predictions, many of them ambiguous and non-specific, that every now and then one is bound, by the law of averages, to be nearly right. Similarly (as we have seen) the characteristics it ascribes to the various birth-signs are so commonplace, varied and numerous that a few of them are bound to hit the mark. Wishful thinking does the rest.

4) While pretending to be “scientific,” astrologers think that we are what we are and do what we do thanks to occult influences; their “science” is embedded in the mumbo-jumbo of superstitions and ignorance. It ignores everything mankind has learned, and is learning, about the real reasons we are what we are and we do what we do.

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Stephen T-B
1) Astrology originates from a time when the sun, moon, planets and stars belonged to the order of divine beings; their movements and conjunctions were therefore interpreted as having a divine purpose, either to influence us poor mortals or to presage great earthly events. This holds for each time. 2) Modern-day astrologers buy into this mythology, as though we didn’t now know that the constellations of the Zodiac are completely random and arbitrary arrangements of stars and galaxies, spread over millions of light years; as though we didn’t now know what the galaxies and stars are, that our sun is a star, that the planets - some small and rocky, some vast and gaseous - are its satellites. This is bullshit and a desinfornation. Astrology has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with ' the completely random constellations of the Zodiac and the arbitrary arrangements of stars and galaxies, spread over millions of light years'. It is known to all astrologers in the world, that astrologers work only with twelve angle distances of exact 30° measured from the moving point of spring equinox, which depends on the motion of the earth and moon only, - plus the planetes of our solar sytem. 3) Astrology survives for the very reason that it generates such a vast number of predictions, many of them ambiguous and non-specific, that every now and then one is bound, by the law of averages, to be nearly right
Similarly (as we have seen) the characteristics it ascribes to the various birth-signs are so commonplace, varied and numerous that a few of them are bound to hit the mark. Wishful thinking does the rest. . Nonsense. This is a send up to all people, who are have learned to understand their character from astrology. If one is not able to grasp astrology, it is of no scientific value, to write such bullshit in a scientific forum. 4) While pretending to be “scientific,” astrologers think that we are what we are and do what we do thanks to occult influences; their “science” is embedded in the mumbo-jumbo of superstitions and ignorance. It ignores everything mankind has learned, and is learning, about the real reasons we are what we are and we do what we do. This is blah blah. The writer claim to know the real reasons what we are. That's arrogant. The writer knows nothing about. He was born in this world, and he did not know why, nor does he know where he comes from. He did not know, who he is (nor he can give proof of). The writer never has studied astrology. His absolute unscientific polemic is politics and has nothing, that is to be recognized as of scientific base. Still in this quakering his “science” is embedded in the mumbo-jumbo of superstitions and ignorance. He cannot give any proof of his pseudoscience; his junk is an unfit try to discrediting the science, and art of astrology.

[Wyz_sub10]

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
Still in this quakering his “science” is embedded in the mumbo-jumbo of superstitions and ignorance. He cannot give any proof of his pseudoscience; his junk is an unfit try to discrediting the science, and art of astrology.

My irony meter just about went off the scale here.

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Wyz_sub10
My irony meter just about went off the scale here. Fun is important, but the serious kernel of the hole too.

[Tom Sawyer]

Anyone know what it was that happened on the 27th?

There was a car accident here in Atlanta that killed one person and injured a couple more. Is that what VD was predicting, or was he talking about something more substantial?

Edit:

Hey!

Talking about a car accident was my 666th post!

[Wyz_sub10]

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
Fun is important, but the serious kernel of the hole too.

Fun is important, although I do not know what the second part of your sentence means.

I take it you are suggesting that, fun aside, there is a serious issue here. I agree there is.

But I find it ironic that you would make the statement: "He cannot give any proof of his pseudoscience."

I have yet to see a study that supports proof of any astrological claims. Astrology is a pseudoscience - there is nothing scientific about it. There is no scientific basis for the influence of bodies on people or a correlation between bodies and personalities.

If the above is an inaccurate generalization of the connection between astrology and personalities or event occurrences, then feel free to correct me, although I'll find 10 astrologers who will have their own interpretations.

This thread is a dozen pages of tail-chasing and circular discussions on both sides. I've seen nothing to suggest that there is any scientific merit to astrology or that it has any predictive or explicatory value whatsoever.

Nothing happened on August 27 that has any relevance to your predictions, but I suppose I could throw a dart at a calendar and predict something will happen on earth with a reasonably high chance for success.

Comments like this:

you can learn, that your character is not you, but you have a character (and a car). Same as you have a special hair color and a special skin color, from the DNA from your parents, which is not really you, the character is given as a physical structure in the brain to you, who ever you may be. You have this character, but you are not this character.

serve only to confuse things further.

You can begin by explaning where this character comes from, if not from DNA. Or, perhaps more importantly, how you know that "character" is something that comes from any particular source other than DNA + environment.

I'm sincerely interested in an explanation.

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Tom Sawyer
Anyone know what it was that happened on the 27th?

There was a car accident here in Atlanta that killed one person and injured a couple more. Is that what VD was predicting, or was he talking about something more substantial? Ahhh, you miss that a date is a moving point on earth. And this constallation is not fixed on your date of only one day. It is hot since the mid of August, and I have cited the craches in this thread in detail, while you was asleep. There was a power outage in NY/Toronto on the 14th and today hundreds of thousands of passengers were trapped on the London Underground and thousands of others took to the streets as a power outage struck the city during evening rush hour Thursday 28th. At 04:48:20 UTC today there was a Magnitude 6.2 earthquake in Southern East Pacific. It was. It is not a tric; It's astrology.

[Wyz_sub10]

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
Ahhh, you miss that a date is a moving point on earth.

What does this mean? The day is one rotation of the earth, and it certainly does not extend for an undefined time. August 27 - for all parts of the globe - has a very defined period.

There was a power outage in NY/Toronto on the 14th

What does the 27th have to do with the 14th? The cause of the power failure was mechanical and quite defined. What are you suggesting? Astology can predict mechanical lapses?

The power outage lasted less than 12 hours in many areas and did little more than create a minor inconvenience (I know because I live in downtown Toronto, and walked home with 800,000 other people). It was nothing that doesn't happen everyday in some part of the world.

At 04:48:20 UTC today there was a Magnitude 6.2 earthquake in Southern East Pacific. It was. It is not a tric; It's astrology.

Volker, this is ridiculous.

Look at the data:

Number of earthquakes 6.0 or greater in 2003

Jan: 8
Feb: 3
Mar: 11
Apr: 7
May: 16
Jun: 11
Jul: 12
Aug: 6 (up to the 25th only)

Earthquakes of 6.0 or greater are commonplace. I can say - right now - that there will be an earthquake of 6.0 or greater on September 15th. Give me a "floating day" of who knows how many "real" days and I'm sure to be right.

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Wyz_sub10
I have yet to see a study that supports proof of any astrological claims. Astrology is a pseudoscience - there is nothing scientific about it. There is no scientific basis for the influence of bodies on people or a correlation between bodies and personalities.Science is a method, not a belief sytem. If 'scientists' do not have any natural explanation of astrology, this means nothing. A claim 'Astrology is a pseudoscience - there is nothing scientific about it', is yunk or politics, but not a scientific result of methods. ... I'll find 10 astrologers who will have their own interpretations. 'If two medicine Doctors are agree, then one of both is not a Doctor.' You comes up with persons, not with valid arguments against the science of astrology. You can ignore astrology, but you cannot judge about it, powered by a belief in the religion of science and its 'Gods'. It is a religious claim of believing scientists, to discredit astrology. There is nothing of scientific methods to be shown by this believers. Still superstition. No serious scientists would judge about QM or GR in this way, lacking in knowlede of the matter. This thread is a dozen pages of tail-chasing and circular discussions on both sides. I've seen nothing to suggest that there is any scientific merit to astrology or that it has any predictive or explicatory value whatsoever. It is your forum. I think, I have given a lot of specific reasonable arguments, relating to the subject. And my impression is, that there was no adequate counterarguments ever. From my side you can close the thread. ... DNA + environment ... I'm sincerely interested in an explanation. That's the joke of the day. I have never seen a scientific proof or paper, that a specific individual character of a being can be proved from DNA. It is still a superstition of pseudoscientists.

Volker

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Wyz_sub10
What does this mean? The day is one rotation of the earth, and it certainly does not extend for an undefined time. August 27 - for all parts of the globe - has a very defined period. No, you are wrong. At the same time UTC there can be different dates in Australia and Hawaii. BTW. This is some basics.Volker, this is ridiculous.

Look at the data:

Number of earthquakes 6.0 or greater in 2003

Jan: 8
Feb: 3
Mar: 11
Apr: 7
May: 16
Jun: 11
Jul: 12
Aug: 6 (up to the 25th only)
I have in my file
Aug: 4 M7.5
Aug: 11 M6.0
Aug: 14 M6.3
Aug: 21 M7.2
Aug: 28 M6.2

as you can see from my graph
http://doormann.tripod.com/aug03.gif
together with a red line indicating the amount harmonics from my algorithm.

Volker (says Good Night to all from Germany)

[Shadowy Man]

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann

as you can see from my graph


So, what is the correlation coefficient? And confidence intervals?

[Lobstrosity]

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
At 04:48:20 UTC today there was a Magnitude 6.2 earthquake in Southern East Pacific. It was. It is not a tric; It's astrology.
Of course it's a trick, Volker. You predicted (and this is a paraphrase) that "around Aug 27 either an earthquake or something bad will happen." The trick that you are exploiting is that either an earthquake or something bad happens every day of the year somewhere on Earth and you gave us a three to five day window! You could have replaced Aug 27 with any date and still been "correct." You were asked repeatedly to give the five-minute interval during which this devastating event was to occur (since you claimed that this could be done retroactively for other earthquakes) and to specify the nature of the event. You were unable to do this, proving fairly conclusively that your astrology is nothing more than a trick.

And the claim that "astrology is pseudo-science" has nothing to do with politics. It comes directly from the application of the scientific method. This is why all of science agrees that astrology is as bogus as phrenology, tarot cards, and palm reading. First and foremost, neither astrologers nor scientists have any proposed mechanism by which astrology can work. Even if they did, they have no proposed reason why such a mechanism would even have the effects it does. On top of all this, scientists have actual scientific data that the claims of astrologers are bogus. In short, what astrologers say will happen doesn't actually happen with any statistical significance. Astrology is no better at making predictions and character assessments than a random prediction/characteristic generator. What does this tell you about the significance of astrology? All of this combines to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that astrology is mere fiction--nothing more than ancient superstition rooted in mythology and ignorance.

[Wyz_sub10]

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
Science is a method, not a belief sytem.

Agreed.

If 'scientists' do not have any natural explanation of astrology, this means nothing.

Also agreed....but!...astrology has to demonstrate consistency - it has to show that there is something consistent worth explaining.

A claim 'Astrology is a pseudoscience - there is nothing scientific about it', is yunk or politics, but not a scientific result of methods.

It isn't politics. I have no vested interest for or against astrology. When I was younger, I was quite open to astrology. But the data was not there to support it. There needn't be a scientific method in place to disprove astrology.

'If two medicine Doctors are agree, then one of both is not a Doctor.' You comes up with persons, not with valid arguments against the science of astrology.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean here.

You can ignore astrology, but you cannot judge about it, powered by a belief in the religion of science and its 'Gods'. It is a religious claim of believing scientists, to discredit astrology.

Science is not a belief system - you said so yourself. So what are you saying here? That science is science unless it does not credit astrology, then it becomes religion?

Come on, you must know how bad that sounds. Scientists do not work to discredit astrology. There is nothing to gain by doing so.

It was be immeasurably beneficial to be able to predict things like earthquakes. If astrology could do this, why would mainstream science not embrace it - or at least this part of it?

There is nothing of scientific methods to be shown by this believers. Still superstition. No serious scientists would judge about QM or GR in this way, lacking in knowlede of the matter.

You are saying, if I understand you, that science does not support astrology because they do not understand it? Then why does mainstream science support QM, or plate techtonics, or evolution, even though most scientist do not specialize in it?

It is your forum. I think, I have given a lot of specific reasonable arguments, relating to the subject. And my impression is, that there was no adequate counterarguments ever.

Honestly Volker, I think there have been some valid challenges that you have simply ignored. I cannot provide a counterargument to something for which no argument exists.

You say there is a correlation between celestial bodies and character. Yet, I do not see proof of this. If I could see this proof, then we could try to explain it. As it stands, you have an explanation for something that is not even demonstrated to be true.

From my side you can close the thread.That's the joke of the day. I have never seen a scientific proof or paper, that a specific individual character of a being can be proved from DNA. It is still a superstition of pseudoscientists.
Volker

I said DNA + environment, but I could still find you papers to support DNA-based traits to some degree. Can you match that with an explanation of how celestial bodies "give" you character?

[Wyz_sub10]

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
No, you are wrong. At the same time UTC there can be different dates in Australia and Hawaii. BTW. This is some basics.

Volker, there are still defined limits and it is still one rotation. There is a date line that still encompasses one earth circumference.

It is never the 25 in one place and the 27 in another - it's still a span of 24, and only 24, hours.

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Wyz_sub10
Volker, there are still defined limits and it is still one rotation. There is a date line that still encompasses one earth circumference.

It is never the 25 in one place and the 27 in another - it's still a span of 24, and only 24, hours.
The day is one rotation of the earth, and it certainly does not extend for an undefined time. August 27 - for all parts of the globe - has a very defined period. I have said, that a date is 'a moving point on earth' and 'at the same time UTC there can be different dates in Australia and Hawaii. This means, that if it has a date of 28th in Sydney the date moves to the 27th in Honolulu. No one can claim a date of only on number (i.e. 27th) as definend fix on earth. Your arguments did not affect this.

Volker

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Lobstrosity
Of course it's a trick. Blaah, Blaah. I am off.

[Volker.Doormann]

Wyz_sub10,

I have given lot of data, and a lot of arguments in this long thread.

No one of this data or arguments were accepted as data, or were verified in an adequate scientific manner. Still abusing science to claim the superstitions of all the poster here in total, directed to a science, which they have absolute no knowledge about. I will do my examination on EQ further on, but I do finish my answering and posting to this thread.

Thank you.

I am off.

[Armchair dissident]

I have given lot of data, and a lot of arguments in this long thread
The data was based on flawed algorithms and assumptions, and the arguments were routinely shown to be invalid, much less sound.
No one of this data or arguments were accepted as data, or were verified in an adequate scientific manner
You did not recognise the counter-arguments. You insisted - despite all evidence to the contrary - that you were right. That does not mean the arguments against you were not there, and that they were not valid. Indeed; when valid arguments were put to you, you ignored them, and failed to respond.

Still abusing science to claim the superstitions of all the poster here in total, directed to a science, which they have absolute no knowledge about.

It's nice to know that you alone of all people on earth have the absolute truth. It's just a shame that - like religion - you can neither prove it, nor demonstrate it's usefulness.


I am off.
I doubt it.

[echidna]

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
I have given lot of data, and a lot of arguments in this long thread.

No one of this data or arguments were accepted as data, or were verified in an adequate scientific manner. Still abusing science to claim the superstitions of all the poster here in total, directed to a science, which they have absolute no knowledge about. I will do my examination on EQ further on, but I do finish my answering and posting to this thread. And when questioned in detail over this data, you repeatedly failed / refused to answer questions. Disappointing, because for a moment I hoped you were even just a little more substantial than all the other quack astrologers out there.

For future reference, if you are ever seeking to "prove" a hypothesis in future, please be prepared to explain it in substantially more detail than you have been able to on this occasion.