Does Catholic school breed nonbelievers?

[SiliconWolf]

A friend of mine recently speculated that going to Catholic school almost guarantees that you will stop going to church when you move out of your parents' house. So I got to thinking about some of my friends that I have stayed in touch with since eighth grade. My friend above went to eight years of Catholic school and now goes to church rarely. Our classmate, who went to the same school for eight years, is now Wiccan. I went to Catholic school for sixteen years and I am an atheist.

I have also noticed a number of other atheists and agnostics on this forum who went to Christian schools. Does it take just a certain type of person to leave the religion they were brought up in, or does the school itself have something to do with it?

[FoE]

Catholic school certainly worked that way for me

[pariah]

of 5 ppl i know who went to catholic school with me, only 1 is still catholic.

[Benny Hill]

I survived 7 years of Catholic school, along with Bible study classes, confession on Saturdays, mass on every Sunday, and I'm just about as atheistic as it gets.

[kwigibo]

i had a senior class of about a hundred people, my guess is at best maybe 3 of them ever in their lives went to church regularly. Hell, the school only made us go 3 times a year.

[tensorproduct]

Pretty much everyone I know went to a catholic school. I'd say that many would still consider themselves Christian although not many are practising.

[matthias j.]

When I was in catholic school only one of my 19 classmates believed there was a god :)

(17 of them were female btw, those were the best days of my life :D )

[Walross]

6 of my friends went to the same Catholic HS as I did. All but one are atheists. The theist claims to be xtian, but seems more deist from the conversations I've had with him.

[Ab_Normal]

There are five kids in my family, all went to catholic school through 8th or 9th grade (depending on where we were living at the time). Of those we've got (in vaguely chronological order):

1 I don't know, we don't talk much, I'm guessing agnostic
2 Practice when they visit my mom - still say their Catholic
1 Practicing Catholic
1 me, the atheist

edited to add: I have kept track of exactly none of my former catholic school mates. That's how many good friends I made in grade school.

[trunks2k]

I went to a Catholic High School and it was instrumental in me becoming an atheist.

[Proxima Centauri]

I went to a Catholic School for a year when I was fifteen and sixteen. :eek:
When I started there I was an agnostic but wasn't too concerned about it. When I left there I was a militant agnostic.
Despiate this most of the girls in my class, those who were officially Catholic were believing Catholic sheep. :banghead: I've not idea what they were ten years later.

[trillian]

I went for 17 years and ended up atheist (actually was atheist from about 13 or so).

As I think back now, I cannot recall conversations with friends which dealt with religion or God even though we had religious classes every day! When we were little there was always some kid who said "God's going to get you for that!" but thats about it for God. Heck, my mother said that too.

Oh and the time freshman year when Sister Mary Rogers let it out that Genesis was a fictional story. That revelation was such a scandal for some of the students! "You mean they lied to us in 2nd grade?"!!! It really makes you question EVERYTHING.

Of the 6 high school friends that I still talk to, only one is still (practicing)catholic. All six people in my family were raised and schooled Catholic in 3 different countries. Not one of us goes to church today.

trillian

[Morwen]

I think that I would have been an atheist even if I had not served a nine-year sentence in Catholic school (K-8). They never succeeded in indoctrinating me in the first place, so I do not feel that I was ever a Catholic (despite their sprinkling their "magic water" on me when I was a wee sprog). By the time I was in sixth grade my teachers dreaded religion class because my (also atheist) best friend and I "asked too many questions."

I was glad to shake the dust of that place off my feet. I'm just happy that it didn't settle on my mind as well.

[SiliconWolf]

I wonder if so few catholic school students are really that apathetic about religion. I knew a few in high school who were non-religious, but most of my classmates seemed to get into the retreat type stuff. A good friend from college was even in the seminary for a while.

One thing is for sure, I didn't expect to find so many catholic school people here.

Originally posted by trillian1
I went for 17 years and ended up atheist (actually was atheist from about 13 or so).

Dang, you have me beat. My grade school didn't have kintergarden so I went to public school for that. Does Lutheran pre-school count?

What made you decide to go to a catholic university (I assume) if you were already an atheist? I don't know that I would have gone to Notre Dame if I had had the same opinion of religion when I was 18 that I do now. Although it turned out to be a fairly tolerant place, despite the administration's thinly veiled claims that nothing liberal goes on there (there isn't even a college of Liberal Arts - it's called Arts and Letters :rolleyes: ).

[mecca777]

Yep, I went to a Catholic school. Before that I got sent to a convent after school for a year for extra religious instruction. During my early time at Catholic school I had my heart set on the priesthood, and took all the retreats that were offered. I went to the school mass every week too.

It all ended for me when I sat down and read the Bible properly, cover-to-cover, for the first time. At first I felt so much guilt, pain and confusion that I could hardly stand it; one day I decided to examine things as rationally as possible (I was also a good science student). When I considered the possibility that there was no factual basis behind the Bible, and that the Church was primarily a method of ensuring society's conformity to moral standards (hey, it was a first step! :D), the guilt and confusion dropped away.

Of course, it didn't take long for me to become a highly-unpopular atheist. My initial idea/coping mechanism that the Catholic Church was a benign, if misguided, organisation didn't last.

[Trecker]

I went to catholic grade school, seminary, and college. I think as long as they demanded that everyone thought as sheep, catholicism was safe. It was especially after Vatican II that the catholic church encouraged its seminarians to actually think (because it was filling the ranks of its clergy with such wacko basket cases that didn't have a clue about how the world worked) that I started thinking and realized just how unrealistic all the beliefs were. I became an atheist and remained one since my freshman year in college.

[Kevbo]

I think the issue with Catholic school is that it tends to encourage questioning and thinking (which I consider a good thing) without providing that protestant "emotional mind-control" which is a subtle form of manipulating brainwaves and emotions to force conversion.

The Bible is generally not something that stands up to scrutiny without a strong previous emotional attachment to the contents being true. Of those Christians who are not very emotional about their faith, I doubt that you would find even a single inerrantist.

[Carlos]

11.5+ years of Catholic schools but I didn't turn out as expected. My sister still attends mass weekly, though. My mother and her six siblings (Baby Boomers) do as well and most of them attended Catholic schools.

I think Trecker and Kevbo are on to something. Though religion was taught at every Catholic school I went to, the form of the class differed. At the first few schools it was closer to indoctrination: here are our beliefs. The student is implicitly expected to accept. Tests, homework, and so on did exist, but were much lighter than regular classes.

The last Catholic school I went to treated religion classes very differently; they were much closer to regular classes (in presentation, if not content). These were mostly history classes, some ethics/morals and the rare survey of other religions. In my mind, at least, this was just like another class - had to put effort into them to get a good grade. Memorize this and that; not a great deal of emphasis on inculcating beliefs. I guess the expectation (from a Catholic educator's point of view) is that by now a solid base exists and it is a good time to fill in the details. In a small way, this contributed to my eventual deconversion.

[Jack Kamm]

I am 16 and currently go to a Catholic HS. It has about 1600 people in it. While I have a few atheist/agnostic friends, I would say the vast majority of them are Catholic.

But I would say almost all the Catholics at my HS are very liberal. I bet most of them rarely go to church.

[trillian]

Originally posted by SiliconWolf

What made you decide to go to a catholic university (I assume) if you were already an atheist? I don't know that I would have gone to Notre Dame if I had had the same opinion of religion when I was 18 that I do now. Although it turned out to be a fairly tolerant place, despite the administration's thinly veiled claims that nothing liberal goes on there (there isn't even a college of Liberal Arts - it's called Arts and Letters :rolleyes: ).

Well I made my decision based on location, size, and education. USC was too much "in the hood" for me, the state schools were too impersonal (lacking a good student/prof ratio).
The jesuits are actually really cool teachers--they taught me everything that's wrong with the letters of Paul (including the fact that he didn't write 7 of them and that he thought Jesus was really coming in his own lifetime) and never once got preachy. In fact most of them drink and swear and are pretty fun to hang out with!

My finals were during the riots, and when I wanted to go home, Father Henry gave me my final as a 10 minute conversation--I got an A! Cool guy.

Loyola (where I went) is actually known as a liberal arts school.

trillian

[SiliconWolf]

Originally posted by Carlos
The last Catholic school I went to treated religion classes very differently; they were much closer to regular classes (in presentation, if not content). These were mostly history classes, some ethics/morals and the rare survey of other religions. In my mind, at least, this was just like another class - had to put effort into them to get a good grade. Memorize this and that; not a great deal of emphasis on inculcating beliefs. I guess the expectation (from a Catholic educator's point of view) is that by now a solid base exists and it is a good time to fill in the details. In a small way, this contributed to my eventual deconversion.
I remember mostly the same sort of thing. The religious courses were theology rather than indoctrination. Many parts of the bible were taught as metaphor or mythology. We learned about the different authors of Genesis, when the various texts were written, and so on. I wanted to take a world religions (comparative religion) course in college but it was very popular and always filled up before I could enroll. I ended up taking a different course which taught a little about Judaism, which was interesting. While I was an undergraduate, the head of the theology department at Notre Dame was actually Jewish.

[tribalbeeyatch]

A friend of my mother directly attributes her loss of faith to attending Catholic school -- or rather, a particular incident that occured while she attended Catholic school. She was apparently asked to fill the little bucket with the sprinkler thingee (name? obviously not a Catholic myself) that they use during mass, but when she tried, she found that there was no holy water left. She was quite young at the time (8 or 10) and had already seen the nuns dealing out some pretty violent punishments, so she was afraid to return with her task uncompleted. Instead, she went to the ladies room and filled it up from the tap, expecting the lightning bolt to strike her down at any moment. When there was no sign from the heavens, and no consequence to her little deceit whatsoever, she says that it suddenly dawned on her that holy water was just plain water and all of the Catholic rites that she was taking part in were just an elaborate game of make-believe.

P.S. I was at the grocery store last night and wearing my "Jesus Hates You" shirt with its picture of Jesus flipping the bird. The cashier asked me whose photo it was, and I told him, "that would be our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ...and he's pissed!" The cashier gets a big grin and comes back with, "Oh yeah. I hear that he's the light and the way...errr the way and the light..and ummm, the truth? Fuck, I should know that; I used to be Catholic."

[Diabolical Vengeance]

Because I and my parents wanted me to be educated in French (which I'm most grateful for) I had to go through the Cathlic system in both primary and secondary levels. I'd say I begun to feel disenchanted with religion when i was 12 or 13. At time it was the stupid teenage blame it on god thing. However as i aged and matured I realized other things about religion that made me sick and filled me with abhorrence for it. I first read Nietzsche when i was 17. I hated that environment and I don't reccomend it to anyone. We were forced to attend mass and listen to all their propaganda and lies and self denial. I made a few friends actually by sitting next to people who didn't go up for the communion.

[shome42]

LOL:D

I went to Catholic school from 1st through 8th grade, then to a Catholic high school, and I'm graduating from a Catholic college in about 5 months.

It's hard to say how much influence catholic school has on little children.

I can say for little kids, none of them take Catholicism seriously because of it's robotic nature...i.e., robotic masses, robotic repetition of the same prayers, memorizing the beatitudes, etc.

These are burdensome chores for little children, and as such, they are almost ensured to be associated negatively in children's minds.

The only thing that really sticks in their mind is a permanent sense of GUILT.

Again, in high school, masses etc. are robotic chores. Almost no one takes them seriously. In my Catholic high school of about 1200, only about 20 people joined the Bible club.

I was astounded when a friend of mine transfered to a Baptist school and saw the kids actually practiced their religion outside of church.

In my experience, something about Catholicism screams "going through the motions."

BTW, I look fondly on my Catholic education... there wasn't anything very religious about it. Sure, we went to mass and had theology class, but aside from those annoyances, it was a good experience-- there was a very friendly atmosphere, particularly in high school, which I have to give some credit to the Catholic teachings for creating.

[Proxima Centauri]

Isn't it sad! So many Catholics, and other Christians concentrate on instilling guilt.
Religion so often makes people unhappy.

:eek:

[tronvillain]

Well, both my brother and I went to Catholic school, and we are both atheists. Still, there very little attempt at instilling guilt, either at school or at church. In fact, there was very little mention of sin at all - I have since gone to non-Catholic services and let me tell you, they were creepy and disturbing.

[Boredom]

I went to Catholic school in grade school then fundy private school. I'm now an atheist. Used to write bad poetry about how much I hated it all in fact.

[Roland98]

Hmm, so should I send my kids to Catholic school if I want them to turn out atheist? :D

We only had Catholic K-8 near me, and similarly for a Lutheran school. Most of the kids who went to those for K-8 ended up completely letting loose in H.S.; including 2 teen pregnancies (in my tiny, tiny, tiny school, 2 is a huge number). Don't know if they're currently atheist, though.

[Loki]

My boyfriend did 11 years of catholic education; graduated from an all boys catholic HS, and says if he hadn't have gone to that HS, he'd probably be apathetic and agnostic, but because of the school, he's a fairly strong atheist. I know a sort of disproportionate amount of practicing catholics who graduated from catholic schools, meaning that I know 4 people out of maybe 20 or so. Seems to be the highest ration I've seen so far.

I only did 3 years at the start of my education, but it definitely had negative impacts on my faith, even at age 8.

[Ender Wiggin]

I went to public grade school and an all-girls Catholic high school. My family was not religious; it was more "for the education". And I've got to say, I got a great education there. We were taught evolution, comparative religion, philosophy, sex ed, you name it. As an atheist in Catholic school I had very few confrontations or difficulties, but then I did go through all the motions, as it were- standing up for morning prayer, sitting quietly through liturgies, etc. The girls I met there were more intelligent, open-minded, and critical than anyone I knew from public school. There were also muslim and hindu students practicing freely. This was recent; 93-97.

I might be the only atheist that would consider sending my own children to Catholic high school.

[Jet Black]

Just to bump the thread, I went to a catholic primary school. The education was excellent there (apart from one teacher) but I am atheist. Mind you, my parents are too... I just went there because it was the best school for miles :)

[shome42]

I agree with the Catholic schools creates atheists phenomenon, but I wonder why Protestant schools don't have the same effect, at least in my experience.

I'd also consider sending my kids to Catholic school. Exellent education and really teaches a sort of humility...snobbery was almost unheard of. At my Catholic high school we had to do service out the wazoo, and it was a very eye-opening experience.

Catholic college, OTOH, which I'm graduating from on Saturday, is a waste of money. I'd have gotten the same if not better education at a cheaper state school.

[ctkrohn]

I went to Catholic schools ever since 3rd grade. I am now a freshman at a secular institution. I became agnostic toward the beginning of my junior year of HS, and I directly attribute this to attending Jesuit high school. The funny thing is that I really wanted to go there, rather than to a Catholic boarding school favored by my parents. A priest friend of my mother's had told her that if I go to the Jesuit school, I will almost certainly lose my faith. Guess he was right.

Between my sophomore and junior years of HS, my family moved to the DC area and I went to a much more conservative Catholic school. Most of my friends were pretty hardcore Catholics and will most likely remain that way for the rest of their lives.

[Biggus]

I was in catholic schools from 1983 to 1996. Probably from around 1991 onwards, I started paying attention to my religious education classes and realised that it was crap. From that point onwards, it was a matter of pride to fail every religious education subject I took. Yes, it was immature, but I wasn't really that mature at the time. On the positive side, I learnt a great deal about other religions and their belief systems, and was encouraged to research and learn about them.

I do believe that catholic education is to the christian faith what the spanish inquisition was to non-believers. Without the blood loss and torture, obviously.