Music

[Darth Dane]

Is a piece of music played at volume 5 the same as music played at volume 100?








DD - Love & Laughter

[spacer1]

No, the one played at volume 100 is louder. :cool:

[Darth Dane]

If I play "Für Elise" at volume 5, and then play "Für Elise" at volume 100, is it the same piece of music?







DD - Love & Laughter

[Darth Dane]

Is the experience of the same piece of music different on a $100 stereo as on a $10.000 stereo.

Hint: usually the music on better systems is more clear, no noise and stuff.







DD - Love & Laughter

[Octokun]

I don't know about stereos costing $10,000, but speaking from experience, the music does tend to be clearer and over-all sounds finer on a better sound system.

So to answer you're question, I think the experience of listening to Für Elise would be a better experience on a finer and more expensive sound system then a weak and inexpensive stereo. :)

[Darth Dane]

What happens when the music gets louder, apart from being louder? What is the effect of louder music?








DD - Love & Laughter

[Bill Snedden]

DD:

Is there an epistemic issue you're attempting to address in this thread? If so, you may want to state it more directly. If not, I don't think this thread belongs in Philosophy. Should I move it?

Regards,

Bill Snedden

[Darth Dane]

Like a book, we don't reveal the plot/answer in the begining.


Where would you move it to?


The analogy should be springing in your eyes, but I guess it isn't.


I can't move faster with this. So if that warrants a moving, feel free :)






DD - Love & Laughter

[Bill Snedden]

Like a book, it will be tossed aside if its readers are unable to discern a plot given a reasonable amount of reading! :D

I do indeed think that I see an analogy, which is why I asked instead of simply moving the thread. Your assurance is enough for me to leave it here for the time being. Thanks!

Bill Snedden

[Darth Dane]

Thx Bill. We are not that far in the book :p





DD - Love & Laughter

[Godless Wonder]

ok, I'll bite.

Of course it is the same. I can whistle 6 notes of a tune, or play those 6 notes on guitar, or piano. In each case, you could tell me, "Ahh, I recognize that tune! That's Yankee Doodle."

You can identify it in each case, so in each case it is "the same"

If a page depcits a story printed in helvetica, and another page depicts the same letters, punctuation etc, in the same order, but in Times-Roman, is it not still the same story?

Unless you are playing word games and mean something else by "same."

So what's your point?

[beastmaster]

Originally posted by Darth Dane
Is a piece of music played at volume 5 the same as music played at volume 100? It's the same musical composition and performance, but it's a different musical experience.

[Shadowy Man]

Originally posted by Darth Dane
What happens when the music gets louder, apart from being louder? What is the effect of louder music?


Well, it depends on the speakers. The intensity of the signal going to the speakers can cause them to be driven to saturation. This will effect the sound emanating, and will probably be frequency dependent, thus changing the quality of the notes.

Also, you might get a saturation effect in your ears as well, further distorting the notes.

These effects will alter the sound of the music and may also affect your enjoyment of it.

[Darth Dane]

Godless:

Would the experience be different if it is played by a clarinet as opposed to a piano?

Would it be the same piece of music from a different angle?

Would the mood be different even slightly?


It's the same musical composition and performance, but it's a different musical experience.

Well said.

Shadowy man:

Nice points, meaning the music could be distorted a bit right?
So it is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike the original piece of music.



The range in which we can hear the music is also broadened right?






DD - Love & Laughter

[Godless Wonder]

Originally posted by Darth Dane
[B]Godless:

Would the experience be different if it is played by a clarinet as opposed to a piano? [...]Would you not recognize the tune on clarinet? It all hinges on what is meant by "same", which has yet to be defined. Of course all of the performances are distinguishable from one another. If you mean by "same", indistinguishable, then no, they are not the same. If you mean by "same", recognizable as a particular tune (e.g. they are all the same first six notes of Yankee Doodle"), then they are the same. If you mean by "the same" that they are the literal words "t-h-e s-a-m-e", then no they are not the literal words "t-h-e s-a-m-e". The only thing non-obvious about all of this is what the point of the OP is. Yet to be revealed, or possibly non-existent, I guess.

[Darth Dane]

So it is the same notes but they somehow sound different.


Good, so about the range. I mean the distance.

The louder we play the longer distance it can be heard from, and thus more people can hear it.

The analogy is becoming more lucid.


What analogies can be drawn at this point, if you see any?



Edit: on another board I reached this conclusion:

Everything is a point on a scale subject to change and control

Should clarify some things.





DD - Love & Laughter

[phil]

The analogy is becoming more lucid.

Only if we know what you're trying to make an analogy to. If I say "__________ is like water flowing through a pipe" what am I talking about? What is the analogy to? Do you want to help us out here?

-phil

[Diabolical Vengeance]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Darth Dane
[B]What happens when the music gets louder, apart from being louder? What is the effect of louder music?



Since extreme metal is one of the genres of music that i appreciate i believe i can answer (note: korn, fart factory et al are NOT extreme metal :mad: )

When music is louder the little intricacies of music become much clearer, it stimulates the adrenalin glandes and makes you more excitable, more susceptiblae to the passions of music, it affects you more deeply for you become completely surrounded by the music, with music at a louder volume you are less likely to be distracted and hence you are able to experiemce the music more. However you don't necessarily need 10 000$ sound system for this, a good pair of earphones can accomplish the same thing.

LOUDER =BETTER (I don't care what my neighbors say!)

[DoubleDutchy]

Originally posted by Darth Dane
Is a piece of music played at volume 5 the same as music played at volume 100?
DD - Love & Laughter

No, it isn't. Music is music and not noise because of its psychological impact. (Which means that my music can be your noise vice versa, and that strictly spoken no piece of music can ever be the same twice, but that's another story).
In my experience the impact can be rather different, depending on volume. Brahm's violin concerto part two would be killed by hearing it to loudly, Bach's toccata and fugue in f or Bruch's violin concerto have to be felt in the stomach to work properly.

I have no idea what you are up to, if this is not what you were waiting for just leave it, no hard feelings.

[pmurray]

"Volume is tone."
-- Edward Van Halen

[Waning Moon Conrad]

Is G still the dominant chord of a piece in C when it's louder?

[Anabolic]

disclaimer - I do not claim to know what I am talking about.

Music at lower volumes will affect your subconscious, whilst slipping past the conscious mind 9 times out of 10, unless you're listening for it.

The beat/tempo of the music also has an effect on your heartrate.

[Godless Wonder]

Originally posted by pmurray
"Volume is tone."
-- Edward Van Halen Ha ha. Yeah, those EVH MusicMan guitars only have a volume knob, no tone knob. And the volume knob is labeled "Tone", IIRC.

Hmm, on seeing some other posts... There is definitely something special about standing in front of a loud guitar amp and blasting out some cool riffs, ...those times when it makes the hair on your arms stand up.

[Keith Russell]

Does the meaning of this sentence remain the same, if it is written in red letters--

--or blue--

--or cursive--

--or by hand--

--or in letters twenty feet high?

K

[Godless Wonder]

Originally posted by Godless Wonder
Ha ha. Yeah, those EVH MusicMan guitars only have a volume knob, no tone knob. And the volume knob is labeled "Tone", IIRC. [...] It occurred to me later that maybe I should add to this that a guitar's volume knob, when the guitar is connedted to a high-gain guitar amp... well, "changing the volume" is really not an apt description of what it does. With the "volume" knob at 0%, the guitar is silent, at 1% it is making some sound, from 3-5% it get's louder. But, from about 5-10% to 100%, it does NOT get louder, because the amp is already clipping the signal at that point. Turning the knob more just means that more and more of the signal is being clipped, until at 100%, almost nothing but superimposed square waves are coming out of the pre-amp. (a slight oversimplificaiton, but basically true.) Anyway, that is why EVH says volume is tone, because for the most part it changes the sound of the guitar, not the volume of that sound.