Satan wrote the Bible, not God.

[Pyrrho]

Christians are really all worshiping Satan. He, being a clever fellow, tells them he is God, and they don't know the difference. But Satan is a sporting fellow, and gives very many clues to his trick; he tells of "God" commanding the slaughter of children, but people being so stupid, don't catch on that this is really the work of an evil being. "God" in the Bible is obviously an evil being; check out some of the clues conveniently listed at the links below:

Injustice in the Bible (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/injustices.html)

Cruelty and Violence in the Bible (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty.html)

Intolerance in the Bible (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/intolerance.html)

Insults to Women in the Bible (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/women_list.html)

Family Values (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/family.html)

And Satan included some false claims, to help the less foolish figure out that God obviously had nothing to do with writing the Bible:

False Prophecies (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/prophecy.html)

And Satan wrote some contradictions to make it even more obvious that a perfect being did not have anything to do with writing the Bible:

Contradictions in the Bible (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra.html)


So Christians, who worship such an evil being, can expect to roast in Hell for eternity. God cannot help but be very displeased that they believe He would tell people to murder children!

[Philosoft]

Pyrrho, you might consider jumping in here (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60397) before trying to get this going anew.

[Gothic_J]

interesting. we have the same links.

I, of course, would argue satan doesnt exist - but, as portrayed in the bible, he is the good guy. I got banned from christianboard for saying such, of course, but consider - all of his acts are covered by the bill of rights, while god's acts would have him executed. preferably with iron chariots.

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Pyrrho
Christians are really all worshiping Satan. He, being a clever fellow, tells them he is God, and they don't know the difference. Where do you know, that there is a difference between Satan and God? Where do you know, that there is a Satan? Where do you know, that there is a god? But Satan is a sporting fellow, and gives very many clues to his trick; he tells of "God" commanding the slaughter of children, but people being so stupid, don't catch on that this is really the work of an evil being. What do you think, why there is really a work of an evil being? So Christians, who worship such an evil being, can expect to roast in Hell for eternity. Oh, what a drama. Where do you know, that Satan is such evil, that he do roast Christians in Hell for fun? If there is a Satan, what is the true sense of it in nature? If there in no Satan, but only a phantom, then your assertions about this phantom is an acknowledgment and worship of a phantom. If there is no Satan, then your assertions about the fate of Christians is worthless. Where is your Satan? I think it is no difference to tell the people bullshit about God, or bullshit about the fate of Christians, knowing nothing about Satan and it's nature. Can you imagine, that Satan exist only in your mind? - telling you to tell evil things about Christians? Is there really a work of an evil being? Any proofs? Or just evil thoughts?

Volker

[Heathen Dawn]

Pyrrho, you've got yourself into a fix here. If God (the true God, the one who didn't write the Bible) is going to roast people in hell just because they worshipped Satan during their lives (and unwittingly at that), he himself would be a Satan. The true God would be self-secure and wouldn't care if people worshipped him or not.

Of course, this is all a game, and we of evidential thinking must relegate both God and Satan into the realm of fairy-tales...

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Heathen Dawn
Pyrrho, you've got yourself into a fix here. If God (the true God, the one who didn't write the Bible) is going to roast people in hell just because they worshipped Satan during their lives (and unwittingly at that), he himself would be a Satan. The true God would be self-secure and wouldn't care if people worshipped him or not.

Of course, this is all a game, and we of evidential thinking must relegate both God and Satan into the realm of fairy-tales...

A game? Millions of people believe that a perfectly good being has ordered the slaughter of children, among many other horrendous things. They desperately need to rethink their position.

Additionally, just because some ancient person "hears a voice", and the voice claims to be God, that is no reason at all to believe that it really is God who is speaking. And that is assuming that they actually hear a voice, rather than just make up some story about hearing something.

[Arken]

Believe it or not, some radical fringe groups of fundamentalist christians do believe that the bible is a work of satan as are all books. I'm not sure how they reconcile that with the whole Jesus thing.

[Doctor X]

Wow! I had heard about milleniarists who believe the world did cease to exist but we just did not notice it!

--J.D.

[Aquila ka Hecate]

Has anybody read Barnaby Williams' 'Anno Domini'?

A little sensationalist, but I believe the man is working on some kind of a historical academic qualification.
Anyway, he asserts, through characters in the novel, that many early 'christians' (followers of the christ) belived just this-that the deity who was being elevated by the early church was in fact satan, and that that early church forced the 'true message of jesus' out of the church.

I'm about as far as one can get from a biblical scholar, but I wondered if the bigger brains around here were aware of any corrobaration for this assertion.

[Heathen Dawn]

Originally posted by Pyrrho
A game? Millions of people believe that a perfectly good being has ordered the slaughter of children, among many other horrendous things. They desperately need to rethink their position.


What good do you think will come out of their believing that Satan instead of God wrote the Bible? They'll just leave one irrational religion for another.

It's not just the Bible. Seeing all the horrors of nature, one can conclude Satan created the whole world. You see where that leads? To a totally negative view of life.

Let's give people the clean, healthy outlook of rational atheism.


Additionally, just because some ancient person "hears a voice", and the voice claims to be God, that is no reason at all to believe that it really is God who is speaking. And that is assuming that they actually hear a voice, rather than just make up some story about hearing something.

The antidote to all these "voices" and "subjective religious experiences" is to keep in mind the results of brain research. SREs do not point to an objective reality any more than an LSD-taker seeing a pink elephant does. It's all in the head.

[Arken]

Originally posted by Heathen Dawn
It's not just the Bible. Seeing all the horrors of nature, one can conclude Satan created the whole world. You see where that leads? To a totally negative view of life.

Sorry to go off on a tangent here but... what horrors?

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Pyrrho
Millions of people believe that a perfectly good being has ordered the slaughter of children, among many other horrendous things. Where do you know this? Additionally, just because some ancient person "hears a voice", and the voice claims to be God, that is no reason at all to believe that it really is God who is speaking. Where do you know this? See. Just because a living person claims that something has no reason to believe in, why should people hear on this living person and believe on his claims to have the knowledge about that is true, that Millions of people believe that a perfectly good being has ordered the slaughter of children, among many other horrendous things?

Volker

[Heathen Dawn]

Originally posted by Arken
Sorry to go off on a tangent here but... what horrors?

Predation. Parasitism. Ichneumon wasps. Birth defects. Harlequin foetuses. Just scratching the surface.


"The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are being slowly devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst and disease." -- Richard Dawkins

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Heathen Dawn

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Pyrrho
A game? Millions of people believe that a perfectly good being has ordered the slaughter of children, among many other horrendous things. They desperately need to rethink their position.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What good do you think will come out of their believing that Satan instead of God wrote the Bible? They'll just leave one irrational religion for another.


And do you really think that that is likely to be the result of someone considering these matters? (The most likely thing is for them to not adequately consider such things, but if they do, they are extremely unlikely to come to the conclusion that you seem to imagine.)



Originally posted by Heathen Dawn

It's not just the Bible. Seeing all the horrors of nature, one can conclude Satan created the whole world. You see where that leads? To a totally negative view of life.

Let's give people the clean, healthy outlook of rational atheism.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Additionally, just because some ancient person "hears a voice", and the voice claims to be God, that is no reason at all to believe that it really is God who is speaking. And that is assuming that they actually hear a voice, rather than just make up some story about hearing something.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The antidote to all these "voices" and "subjective religious experiences" is to keep in mind the results of brain research. SREs do not point to an objective reality any more than an LSD-taker seeing a pink elephant does. It's all in the head.

That is fine, if it works. But it is good for people to think about how they could tell if a voice they heard really was a voice from God, instead of:

1) Someone else, such as Satan, and
2) A brain malfunction.

And when one is only hearing about someone else supposedly hearing a voice, in addition to those two possibilities, there is a third:

3) The person who claimed to hear a voice is simply lying.

And when you don't even hear it from the person who originally supposedly heard the voice, there is yet a fourth option:

4) The people who reported the story are lying.

(The difference between 3 and 4 is this: With 3, the person who supposedly heard the voice is lying, but with 4, the person writing the story is just writing fiction, perhaps with a couple of true statements thrown in to fool people. In other words, I could write a book, in which I claim that there are people who God has spoken with (lie 4), or instead I could start telling people that God is speaking with me (lie 3), and hope to get others to believe, and write my story.)

Nothing could possibly be more irrational than belief in the stories in the Bible, as they are expressed in the Bible. We have people who claim that God spoke with them. Often, this occurs in dreams, so there is no kind of verification from others, or one is alone, such as Moses being alone to get the 10 commandments, and he comes back, claiming that he has seen a burning bush, and claiming that God carved the tablets, rather than himself. But, of course, we have no way of knowing whether Moses (even if he really existed) ever made such claims, or whether someone just made up a story about him. To continue with this example, it could be that Moses got the tablets from God, or someone else such as Satan who Moses mistook for God, or he could have carved them himself (he was alone long enough; this would be lie 3), or it could be that the whole story is just made up by others, and Moses never claimed anything about any stone tablets (lie 4).

The point that I have been getting at in this thread is that even if every person telling the story is honest, and truly believes what they say (so neither lie 3 or 4 is occurring), we still have no way of knowing that it really was God speaking to them, instead of someone pretending to be God. (And, of course, they could also simply have been hallucinating.)

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Pyrrho
Pyrrho claims to know that: “We (I) still have no way of knowing that it really was God speaking …”
Pyrrho claims to know that: “Satan wrote the Bible, not God.”
Pyrrho claims to know that: “Christians are really all worshiping Satan.”
Phrrho claims to know that: “So Christians, who worship such an evil being, can expect to roast in Hell for eternity.”
Pyrrho claims to know that: “We (I) still have no way of knowing that it really was God speaking …”

Jesus claims: “ …. Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. … For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? “

:confused:

Poll:

[ ]I believe that Jesus in the Bible
[ ]I led me lead from the temptations of Pyrrho
[ ]Don't know, what you talk obout. :confused:

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Pyrrho
The point that I have been getting at in this thread is that even if every person telling the story is honest, and truly believes what they say (so neither lie 3 or 4 is occurring), we still have no way of knowing that it really was God speaking to them, instead of someone pretending to be God. (And, of course, they could also simply have been hallucinating.) [/B]

" 'Another simple form of insanity is to accept that something called "reality" exists but no one can know anything about it.'

This is an old form of insanity dating back as far as the ancient Greeks. No one has been able to completely stamp out this form of insanity, so it's still around.

This form of insanity, which is generally called Universal Skepticism, seems to have appeared first in a man by the name of Pyrrho of Elis who was born around 360 B.C. and died around 270 B.C. He proclaimed that we cannot know the nature of things, that is, "reality." Our senses tell us how things appear, not what they are, and we cannot go beyond our sensations.

Pyrrho believed that we cannot tell whether a sensation is a true copy of a real object even if it is the source of our "knowledge." Therefore, according to him, what we cannot know should compel us to suspend judgment, to resign ourselves to not knowing anything called "reality." Furthermore, Pyrrho held that in every argument both sides can be proved, which probably makes him the first true politician on the planet. Had he been fortunate enough to be born in America, Pyrrho would make a great candidate for Congress."

(Jonathan Dolhenty)

[Doctor X]

Pyrro:

Just put him on "ignore"--it is what he does to people who challenge him on astrology.

Sauce for the goose. . . .

--J.D.

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
Pyrrho claims to know that: “We (I) still have no way of knowing that it really was God speaking …”
Pyrrho claims to know that: “Satan wrote the Bible, not God.”
Pyrrho claims to know that: “Christians are really all worshiping Satan.”
Phrrho claims to know that: “So Christians, who worship such an evil being, can expect to roast in Hell for eternity.”
Pyrrho claims to know that: “We (I) still have no way of knowing that it really was God speaking …”

Jesus claims: “ …. Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. … For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? “

:confused:

Poll:

[ ]I believe that Jesus in the Bible
[ ]I led me lead from the temptations of Pyrrho
[ ]Don't know, what you talk obout. :confused:

I think you need to learn the difference between metaphoric expressions and literal claims.

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Pyrrho
I think you need to learn the difference between metaphoric expressions and literal claims. This is a forum discussing religiuos themes. You have started a thread with the titel:"Satan wrote the Bibel, not God." Neither is the bible a metapher, nor God, nor Satan. If you claim, that your assertion is a metapher, then please show, for what it is a metapher.

Satan? I think not. Your claim is precise. You can argue there are terrible stories in the bible, but terribel stories you can read all day in news. Hardly you can argue, that the bible myths must taken as historic truth. But it is your claim, to argue on this exact.
If you know, that the myths are myths, and no history, then argue on this. These wonderful stories about the evil and good of human beings trying to find the truth, what is called 'Israel' in that myths, what means 'struggeling with God' to find the truth as you, are showing, that it is a hard way to escape from this living in darkness (metapher) claimed as not changed into light (metapher) meaning knowledge (no metapher) by skeptics.

In the same way it is not a metapher to claim: “We (I) still have no way of knowing that it really was God speaking …”. If you claim to have knowledge, that we still have no way of knowing etc. it is a claim and not a Metapher, and it is your (contradictional) claim.

Please speak claer and in your own words, if you would like to be understood in your intension about the authorship of the bible, and please avoid metaphers.

Volker

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
This is a forum discussing religiuos themes. You have started a thread with the titel:"Satan wrote, the Bibel, not God." Neither is the bible a metapher, nor God, nor Satan. If you claim, that your assertion is a metapher, then please show, for what it is a metapher.

In the same way it not a metapher to claim: “We (I) still have no way of knowing that it really was God speaking …”. If you claim to have knowledge, that we still have no way of knowing etc. it is a claim and not a Metapher, and it is your claim.

Please speak claer and in your own words, if you would like to be understood in your intension about the authorship of the bible, and please avoid metaphers.

Why do you think, that Satan wrote the bible?

Volker

To speak plainly, I do not believe that Satan wrote the Bible. However, it is as sensible—no, more sensible—to believe that Satan wrote the Bible than to believe that God wrote it. The reasons why a good being could not have written it are explained in the opening post.

The point of this thread was to try to get Christians to think about their beliefs regarding the Bible and God.

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Pyrrho
To speak plainly, I do not believe that Satan wrote the Bible. OK. However, it is as sensible—no, more sensible—to believe that Satan wrote the Bible than to believe that God wrote it. The reasons why a good being could not have written it are explained in the opening post.

The point of this thread was to try to get Christians to think about their beliefs regarding the Bible and God. I do know that. But there are many points to respect. Neither Christians, Moslems nor Jews have an understanding about the meaning of the Torah myths. The confidence in a spiritual causality is not a crime. If you know, what the correct ethical way to go is, teach this. You cannot create light (metaphor) telling the people, that it is dark (metaphor).

Volker

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
OK. I do know that. But there are many points to respect. Neither Christians, Moslems nor Jews have an understanding about the meaning of the Torah myths. The confidence in a spiritual causality is not a crime. If you know, what the correct ethical way to go is, teach this. You cannot create light (metaphor) telling the people, that it is dark (metaphor).

Volker

Before a new building can be created, the old one occupying the intended space must be demolished.

[Volker.Doormann]

Originally posted by Pyrrho
Before a new building can be created, the old one occupying the intended space must be demolished. That's holds only for this world. Your children will kick you on trash, sometime and they don't care about your war in your mind.

Exact this demolishing of 'new born Egypt's' as metaphor for the physical body of men is dramatized in that Torah myths (Passover), you beat on. 'Israel' is a metaphor for the soul that escapes from this physical building called human body.

I simple parable. The spiritual part of the human can be aware about its eternal existence, but the building 'body' will die, and you may know that.

To demolish buildings only because to build another mortal body ad infinitum is stupid. It is the increase of spiritual knowledge, which is relevant leaving dead old buildings back, were this implies also the buildings crated by the mind, called religious ideas.

Religions have forgotten this knowledge, and talking nonsense, but it is saved hidden in the Torah myths as parables to recognize by each individual, that is free from the bondage of secular power of the religions, perceiving spiritual order directly by its own.

Volker

[Gothic_J]

on a quick side note, one of the early church cults believed that the god of the old testament was a maniac/satan figure, much as I do, and they decladred that jesus was the son and prophet of a god yet to come.

they were quickly purged from the church, and forgotten to all but historians.

[Doctor X]

Gnostics.

--J.D.