EGGO
August 20, 2003, 04:21 AM
That ongoing battle with the uneducated fundy is still going on. It's still just as amusing to me.
how does evolution explain the begiining of the earth? You deny that God did it so what then?
I'm pretty sure the answer is that there isn't correct? But it seems silly to think 'poof' we just became. Especially since science seems to show a lot of creationism false.
1) rocks dont factor in eh. then what? again evolution denies the possiblity of God or at least you do so what happened in the begining I wonder.
2) Christianity doesn't say we are dirt. Adam was formed from dirt yea. it says that, but of course thats with an all powerful God, otherwise it wouldnt make sense, you can't really use science to prove we came from dirt.
This is in response to Division By Zero's semi-sarcastic reply...
If he thinks this argument is sound, he should agree that Christianity says we're nothing but dirt- no different from the dirt that animals roll around in, trample all over, and dump excretion on. Gee- not only are we seperate from animals, we're not even AS GOOD as animals!
obviously evolution doesnt include God so you have to come up with some theory to explain the begining of our existance, and isnt it that we came from a primordial soup?
Pretty much so.
if evolution doesn't include God then im wondering what it says about the begining. Yes Adam came from dirt but it obviously would make more sense if an all powerful God did it versus a random act in nature
No, it would seem much SIMPLER. If we can't imagine ANY kind of answer for anything, it's always easier to just say "Goddidit" which is what the beginning of human civilization tended to do.
Heathen Dawn's earlier reply to him
1. Sun and moon are described as "two great lights". Fact: neither is very great, and only one is really a light.
2. The only races accounted for in Genesis are the Semites (Shem), North Africans (Ham) and Europeans (Japheth). Chinese, Amerindians and Australians, to name just a few, are missing.
His reply to this...
1) Well the moon can still be considered a light. even though it doesnt give off its own, doesn't it reflect the sun? and well lets take the sun away and see if you don't call it great. Its great because its what God designed so that organisms could survive on this planet and both are the biggest we can see on this earth. You just gotta think in the perspective of the bible
2) Not really my strong point. Races. In the bible there are alot of races, I generally dont associate ethnicity with them, just groups of people that lived in certain areas. Mind you thinks (he meant things) have changed since the old testament. The people that lived in former england werent they conquered and bred with the Germanic tribes that brought the destruction of Rome? Again weak point so this is all I have to say. It could just be also that it wasn't that important in the bible to mention them.
3) Well the firmament as proposed by one creationist could have been a layer of ice above the earth atmosphere. This would have increased air pressure and filtered out harmful rays from the son which could explain why Adam lived to be 900+ . This ice melting well could have cause it to rain.
1) I'm not one for cosmology. Maybe I'll be lazy and let you guys pick that one up.
2) Same as above, replace cosmology with history. I'll be looking this up.
3) I think I'm laughing at that. A layer of ice covering the earth. I don't think that even could've filtered out harmful rays of the sun. And I don't think that filtered harmful rays from the sun (much less from a sheet of ice) will keep a man living 900+ years...
Genesis I and II differ in the order of creation, and with the facts as described by science.
Just because it left out Adam being created in the part II doesnt mean it happened in that order. Science is nothing more than man explanations for why things are, which tends to ignore God. So what if right now interbreeding didnt work with our genes, can't you just consider that possible the DNA back then might have been different. Afterall isn't that what you believe in with evolution that there are mutations. Perhaps it mutated after awhile and then they couldnt interbreed, but back then they could.
I had to read this 5 times to understand what he was saying.
I think to clarify, he's stating that our genes have mutated (looks like for the worse) to the point where we can't interbreed. But back then, our genes were better, so we COULD interbreed.
Reverse, you fool, reverse! God was created in man's image.
What are you talking about!. Man was created in Gods Image!!! Man didnt create God, and God wasn't based on Man's Image. Seriously, and I almost thought i had a typo.
Funny, 'back in the day', a lot of things were said to be the doings of god. As they were proved false, all of a sudden he's pushed aside, doing his best to fit our image.
Here he goes on saying we're not animals
1) According to mans classification yes, we are very similar. However, according to the bible we aren't. Everytime as I can remember in the bible animals have been mentioned seperatly from humans. We have souls, and face judgement;animals dont. We were created in God's image. Animals weren't. We can choose between good and evil; animals well dont have to worry about concerning themselves with good/evil, they just do what God told and made them to do. Doesnt mean they aren't smart or affectionate or that we are better because if you look in Numbers chapter 22 I believe it talks about a donkey that talked thanks to God, that prevented a person from getting killed by an angel. Man isnt greater than animals, we both die but we are different.
Not too long ago he said we WERE above animals. Anyway, after telling him about the scientific classification, and heck, even micro-biology, he still insists that we're some sort of....thing. (What are we if we're not animals?)
Adam wasn't real.
The Bible is not a science textbook. Hares don't chew their cud, despite what Leviticus says.
yes he was. and what is sceince but mans feeble attempt to explans things that God has done. Ive never had a bunny before, Eating regurgitated food sounds gross but you never know, ive seen all sorts of animals eat worser things they have produced.
OPEN UP A SCIENCE BOOK. Find out what hares eat.
No, man wasn't created. There is ample evidence to the contrary of this. You have to provide actual evidence that we were created ex nihilo (or some dirt) rather than run to the bible, which is only believed because it's the Word of God--and we know it's the word of God because it says so.
do i? what is better that Adam was made from dirt by God or nothing at all from sceince.
A big universal rule, matter can't be made from nothing. That's the whole thing about the primordial soup right? We came from the most primitave of ingredients (to coin a term) and came up to become what we've become now.
He's pretty draaaaaaaang retarded if he didn't even realize that populating the entire Earth from two people would involve incest.
God planned it to happen this way. It may be gross to you guys and ritefully so, its illegal and immoral today ever since the time of Moses however, back then that was how God planned it.
So God again just magically said "...well I think that's enough of incest. The world is populated enough now I guess".
Something in me (that's voicing itself unclearly at the time) wants to argue about why couldn't God just make a group of people, and then just have them do their stuff, instead of making 2 people who would have incesting children, and then waste more god-juice (he uses a cheat code to get infinate of that) to make incest just...wrong.
God never changes but he can change his rules which is what he did with moses.
If he changes his rules, can we call him (or those rules) perfect? Why didn't he just 'cut to the chase' and make it so that we can't inbreed and blah blah (read above)
I suppose I could say prove the earth is millions of years old when obviously niether of us has lived that long
Through geology, and other brances of science, it can be proven. Of course, he just proves his fallacy by showing us how easy it is to just say 'goddidit' when we just don't know.
The first genetic species? Once we track it down, we'll let you know how deformed it is.
im sure the child wont be deformed but lets wait and ask God when we die shall we? Besides I thought I read in time magazine that some geneticists said we probably came from two people (a man and women obviously)
Never saw that article. Did anybody else? *sigh* I hate looking for all these articles or whatever this guy brings up through Google. I don't understand the meaning of that first part of the hope-to-be-refute.
Actually, there was a group of them--populations evolve, NOT individuals. There wasn't a "first" man, so to speak--there was afirst group, but that is all we can really say.
No, all you need is a rock. (he believed evolution says we all came from a rock)
ok enough bashing on the rock, you guys haven't given me a proper substitute for the begining of the world, and again I seem to remember a time artcile this year that was done on genetics that said we could have come from two people.
Proper-substitute = 'goddidit' henceforth ;)
*goes back to Google looking for this article*
(talking about how single celled organisms reproduce asexually)
you fail to see my point which is a living thing has never gone from asexual single celled to sexual complex organism in the history of humanity. Its my creationist theory vs. your evolution theory or as Id like to put it my religion vs yours.
Well duh, that's all you base your theories on, religion. I however have non. *goes on*
Well...macro-evolution DOES take a few thousand years. If you happen to see a protazoa change into a cow, I'll be sure to say it was the work of God (if man didn't aid in it of course) ;)
(trying to refute how we said people weren't genetically perfect in the beginning with things like Asthma and Down's Syndrome)
yes it sucks, God didnt create death that was man or otherwise put Adam's original sin. O and thats 4 diseases I see, though i dont think Asthma is a genetic disease since it can be cured. Yes it can, my cousin had it when he was young and chubby but he pulled off a theodore rosevelt and buffed up and now is an excellent swimmer/water polo person who can hold his breath longer than I can lol. The point is though that even if the person is suffering as that, the kid can overcome some of those problems and even if it is painful God will be merciful. Some down sydrome people have lived productive lives even if it is hard. life is hard, it wasn't meant to be but it is and its one of those things that one has to cope with. Whats sad is that some people choose to deny God and then suffer throughout eternity in hell when all the pain could go away after they die, if theyd only accept Jesus.
...I'll leave that to you guys. I may be suffering from asthma right now as well, since I can't breathe because I'm laughing so hard.
pre solar nebule. eh? was there ever such a thing o.O Has anyone actually even seen a galaxy or star born. I dare say not. Sure we've seen the collapse of stars but being born. o.O Also this stuff is matter which i later asked where did it come from?
But thanks to the study of atoms, we can theorize how a star is born neh? That's how we create our good 'ol synthetic material. He fails to realize that it's made by a lot of stuff just floating around...correct? *goes back to his books to see if this is correct*
Where did God come from?
Why can he come from there/pre-exist but nothing else can?
Can you objectively prove genesis at all? You know, with evidence other than the Bible?
1)This is hard for such small words we humans have. I suppose I can put it this way. He is a being from which all in existance comes from. He is the begining and the end so there is in a sense no dimesion of time with him, its just eternity. Limitless power. Its basically he is the source of everything and the explanation to creation. Time, space, dimension, matter all come from him, and he is not random.
2) because he is the source, it ends with him unlike it ends with nothing and a complete random act.
3) Can you objectivly prove evolution besides with mans feeble attempts to explain how we are here with silly theories like coming from single celled organisms. You evidence is no greater than mine. In a sense it boils down to belief vs. belief which is relgion vs. religion.
1) That's right, he was just always here. For some reason, how he complains how everything must have an origin, he can't even give a good half-assed explanation where God came from except "He was always there" which to my mind is just physically and logically impossible.
2)He makes it sound as if "I gave birth to this thing. Therefore, I shall end this thing."
We all know that's a bit stupid. Plenty of dogs were given birth by another dog, but they were run over by a vehicle. And I don't see why it's God's plan, since animal's don't have a soul, why would it matter what happens to them?
3) Wrong? Make a child with another woman, THAT'S evolution right there. Why isn't the appendix so critical? We were created in God's image, and he gave us useless body parts like the tailbone?
Comments, please, please. Once you stop laughing I'd like to hear your input. :D
how does evolution explain the begiining of the earth? You deny that God did it so what then?
I'm pretty sure the answer is that there isn't correct? But it seems silly to think 'poof' we just became. Especially since science seems to show a lot of creationism false.
1) rocks dont factor in eh. then what? again evolution denies the possiblity of God or at least you do so what happened in the begining I wonder.
2) Christianity doesn't say we are dirt. Adam was formed from dirt yea. it says that, but of course thats with an all powerful God, otherwise it wouldnt make sense, you can't really use science to prove we came from dirt.
This is in response to Division By Zero's semi-sarcastic reply...
If he thinks this argument is sound, he should agree that Christianity says we're nothing but dirt- no different from the dirt that animals roll around in, trample all over, and dump excretion on. Gee- not only are we seperate from animals, we're not even AS GOOD as animals!
obviously evolution doesnt include God so you have to come up with some theory to explain the begining of our existance, and isnt it that we came from a primordial soup?
Pretty much so.
if evolution doesn't include God then im wondering what it says about the begining. Yes Adam came from dirt but it obviously would make more sense if an all powerful God did it versus a random act in nature
No, it would seem much SIMPLER. If we can't imagine ANY kind of answer for anything, it's always easier to just say "Goddidit" which is what the beginning of human civilization tended to do.
Heathen Dawn's earlier reply to him
1. Sun and moon are described as "two great lights". Fact: neither is very great, and only one is really a light.
2. The only races accounted for in Genesis are the Semites (Shem), North Africans (Ham) and Europeans (Japheth). Chinese, Amerindians and Australians, to name just a few, are missing.
His reply to this...
1) Well the moon can still be considered a light. even though it doesnt give off its own, doesn't it reflect the sun? and well lets take the sun away and see if you don't call it great. Its great because its what God designed so that organisms could survive on this planet and both are the biggest we can see on this earth. You just gotta think in the perspective of the bible
2) Not really my strong point. Races. In the bible there are alot of races, I generally dont associate ethnicity with them, just groups of people that lived in certain areas. Mind you thinks (he meant things) have changed since the old testament. The people that lived in former england werent they conquered and bred with the Germanic tribes that brought the destruction of Rome? Again weak point so this is all I have to say. It could just be also that it wasn't that important in the bible to mention them.
3) Well the firmament as proposed by one creationist could have been a layer of ice above the earth atmosphere. This would have increased air pressure and filtered out harmful rays from the son which could explain why Adam lived to be 900+ . This ice melting well could have cause it to rain.
1) I'm not one for cosmology. Maybe I'll be lazy and let you guys pick that one up.
2) Same as above, replace cosmology with history. I'll be looking this up.
3) I think I'm laughing at that. A layer of ice covering the earth. I don't think that even could've filtered out harmful rays of the sun. And I don't think that filtered harmful rays from the sun (much less from a sheet of ice) will keep a man living 900+ years...
Genesis I and II differ in the order of creation, and with the facts as described by science.
Just because it left out Adam being created in the part II doesnt mean it happened in that order. Science is nothing more than man explanations for why things are, which tends to ignore God. So what if right now interbreeding didnt work with our genes, can't you just consider that possible the DNA back then might have been different. Afterall isn't that what you believe in with evolution that there are mutations. Perhaps it mutated after awhile and then they couldnt interbreed, but back then they could.
I had to read this 5 times to understand what he was saying.
I think to clarify, he's stating that our genes have mutated (looks like for the worse) to the point where we can't interbreed. But back then, our genes were better, so we COULD interbreed.
Reverse, you fool, reverse! God was created in man's image.
What are you talking about!. Man was created in Gods Image!!! Man didnt create God, and God wasn't based on Man's Image. Seriously, and I almost thought i had a typo.
Funny, 'back in the day', a lot of things were said to be the doings of god. As they were proved false, all of a sudden he's pushed aside, doing his best to fit our image.
Here he goes on saying we're not animals
1) According to mans classification yes, we are very similar. However, according to the bible we aren't. Everytime as I can remember in the bible animals have been mentioned seperatly from humans. We have souls, and face judgement;animals dont. We were created in God's image. Animals weren't. We can choose between good and evil; animals well dont have to worry about concerning themselves with good/evil, they just do what God told and made them to do. Doesnt mean they aren't smart or affectionate or that we are better because if you look in Numbers chapter 22 I believe it talks about a donkey that talked thanks to God, that prevented a person from getting killed by an angel. Man isnt greater than animals, we both die but we are different.
Not too long ago he said we WERE above animals. Anyway, after telling him about the scientific classification, and heck, even micro-biology, he still insists that we're some sort of....thing. (What are we if we're not animals?)
Adam wasn't real.
The Bible is not a science textbook. Hares don't chew their cud, despite what Leviticus says.
yes he was. and what is sceince but mans feeble attempt to explans things that God has done. Ive never had a bunny before, Eating regurgitated food sounds gross but you never know, ive seen all sorts of animals eat worser things they have produced.
OPEN UP A SCIENCE BOOK. Find out what hares eat.
No, man wasn't created. There is ample evidence to the contrary of this. You have to provide actual evidence that we were created ex nihilo (or some dirt) rather than run to the bible, which is only believed because it's the Word of God--and we know it's the word of God because it says so.
do i? what is better that Adam was made from dirt by God or nothing at all from sceince.
A big universal rule, matter can't be made from nothing. That's the whole thing about the primordial soup right? We came from the most primitave of ingredients (to coin a term) and came up to become what we've become now.
He's pretty draaaaaaaang retarded if he didn't even realize that populating the entire Earth from two people would involve incest.
God planned it to happen this way. It may be gross to you guys and ritefully so, its illegal and immoral today ever since the time of Moses however, back then that was how God planned it.
So God again just magically said "...well I think that's enough of incest. The world is populated enough now I guess".
Something in me (that's voicing itself unclearly at the time) wants to argue about why couldn't God just make a group of people, and then just have them do their stuff, instead of making 2 people who would have incesting children, and then waste more god-juice (he uses a cheat code to get infinate of that) to make incest just...wrong.
God never changes but he can change his rules which is what he did with moses.
If he changes his rules, can we call him (or those rules) perfect? Why didn't he just 'cut to the chase' and make it so that we can't inbreed and blah blah (read above)
I suppose I could say prove the earth is millions of years old when obviously niether of us has lived that long
Through geology, and other brances of science, it can be proven. Of course, he just proves his fallacy by showing us how easy it is to just say 'goddidit' when we just don't know.
The first genetic species? Once we track it down, we'll let you know how deformed it is.
im sure the child wont be deformed but lets wait and ask God when we die shall we? Besides I thought I read in time magazine that some geneticists said we probably came from two people (a man and women obviously)
Never saw that article. Did anybody else? *sigh* I hate looking for all these articles or whatever this guy brings up through Google. I don't understand the meaning of that first part of the hope-to-be-refute.
Actually, there was a group of them--populations evolve, NOT individuals. There wasn't a "first" man, so to speak--there was afirst group, but that is all we can really say.
No, all you need is a rock. (he believed evolution says we all came from a rock)
ok enough bashing on the rock, you guys haven't given me a proper substitute for the begining of the world, and again I seem to remember a time artcile this year that was done on genetics that said we could have come from two people.
Proper-substitute = 'goddidit' henceforth ;)
*goes back to Google looking for this article*
(talking about how single celled organisms reproduce asexually)
you fail to see my point which is a living thing has never gone from asexual single celled to sexual complex organism in the history of humanity. Its my creationist theory vs. your evolution theory or as Id like to put it my religion vs yours.
Well duh, that's all you base your theories on, religion. I however have non. *goes on*
Well...macro-evolution DOES take a few thousand years. If you happen to see a protazoa change into a cow, I'll be sure to say it was the work of God (if man didn't aid in it of course) ;)
(trying to refute how we said people weren't genetically perfect in the beginning with things like Asthma and Down's Syndrome)
yes it sucks, God didnt create death that was man or otherwise put Adam's original sin. O and thats 4 diseases I see, though i dont think Asthma is a genetic disease since it can be cured. Yes it can, my cousin had it when he was young and chubby but he pulled off a theodore rosevelt and buffed up and now is an excellent swimmer/water polo person who can hold his breath longer than I can lol. The point is though that even if the person is suffering as that, the kid can overcome some of those problems and even if it is painful God will be merciful. Some down sydrome people have lived productive lives even if it is hard. life is hard, it wasn't meant to be but it is and its one of those things that one has to cope with. Whats sad is that some people choose to deny God and then suffer throughout eternity in hell when all the pain could go away after they die, if theyd only accept Jesus.
...I'll leave that to you guys. I may be suffering from asthma right now as well, since I can't breathe because I'm laughing so hard.
pre solar nebule. eh? was there ever such a thing o.O Has anyone actually even seen a galaxy or star born. I dare say not. Sure we've seen the collapse of stars but being born. o.O Also this stuff is matter which i later asked where did it come from?
But thanks to the study of atoms, we can theorize how a star is born neh? That's how we create our good 'ol synthetic material. He fails to realize that it's made by a lot of stuff just floating around...correct? *goes back to his books to see if this is correct*
Where did God come from?
Why can he come from there/pre-exist but nothing else can?
Can you objectively prove genesis at all? You know, with evidence other than the Bible?
1)This is hard for such small words we humans have. I suppose I can put it this way. He is a being from which all in existance comes from. He is the begining and the end so there is in a sense no dimesion of time with him, its just eternity. Limitless power. Its basically he is the source of everything and the explanation to creation. Time, space, dimension, matter all come from him, and he is not random.
2) because he is the source, it ends with him unlike it ends with nothing and a complete random act.
3) Can you objectivly prove evolution besides with mans feeble attempts to explain how we are here with silly theories like coming from single celled organisms. You evidence is no greater than mine. In a sense it boils down to belief vs. belief which is relgion vs. religion.
1) That's right, he was just always here. For some reason, how he complains how everything must have an origin, he can't even give a good half-assed explanation where God came from except "He was always there" which to my mind is just physically and logically impossible.
2)He makes it sound as if "I gave birth to this thing. Therefore, I shall end this thing."
We all know that's a bit stupid. Plenty of dogs were given birth by another dog, but they were run over by a vehicle. And I don't see why it's God's plan, since animal's don't have a soul, why would it matter what happens to them?
3) Wrong? Make a child with another woman, THAT'S evolution right there. Why isn't the appendix so critical? We were created in God's image, and he gave us useless body parts like the tailbone?
Comments, please, please. Once you stop laughing I'd like to hear your input. :D