Preachers as therapists

[B. H. Manners]

I got an email from a preacher who happens to be a counselor.

He told me he honestly thought that anyone who is an atheist has to be mentally ill.



Here's my quandry. Is it ethical and/or legal for me to forward his email to some sort of professional organization that serves as a watchdog over licensed counselors? This guy has no business making his religious ideas criteria for who is insane.

To be honest, I have already deleted his email, but in the eight months since it has never gotten out of my mind. I want advice on what to do or not do if I ever run into the situation again.

[Nectaris]

As far as legal, since you did not actively solicit him and you do not have any patient/client type of relationship, I doubt there would be any confidentiality issues. As far as ethical, it seems like he was behaving unethically and unprofessionally, so you can look at it as your civic duty to report a person who is not competent to practice in a field in which he professes competence to practice.

If it makes you feel better, report him. After all, you said it has bugged you for a while.

Is he actually licensed as a counselor in your state?
I'm pretty sure that any accredited training for a minister would invovle counseling/psychology course, but I could be wrong.

Also, if you didn't know it already, even though the email is deleted it should still be on your hard drive, a competent computer techie could probably retrieve it if you need evidence.

[christ-on-a-stick]

Wow. That is just..... unbelievable.

Those who disbelieve in invisible, intangible super-powered omniscient and omnipresent beings = insane?

Freaky-deaky.

[DigitalChicken]

Originally posted by B. H. Manners

Here's my quandry. Is it ethical and/or legal for me to forward his email to some sort of professional organization that serves as a watchdog over licensed counselors? This guy has no business making his religious ideas criteria for who is insane.

To be honest, I have already deleted his email, but in the eight months since it has never gotten out of my mind. I want advice on what to do or not do if I ever run into the situation again.

Actually I'd go ask for an hour of counseling, pay for it, and then report him.

Before I do that I'd check the standards for any professional groups that he is a member of and see exactly which one he is violating.

DC

[B. H. Manners]

Originally posted by christ-on-a-stick
Wow. That is just..... unbelievable.

Those who disbelieve in invisible, intangible super-powered omniscient and omnipresent beings = insane?

Freaky-deaky.


The preacher thinks an atheist is mentally ill because of his disbelief in God, yet he would shit loud cries of "Persecution!" out of his mouth-ass if I institutionalized him for believing in his fairy god father in heaven. It wouldn't occur in the least that he just might be persecuting me .

[Gothic_J]

I became a reverend today.

anyone want my therapy? :D :p

[MasterJackass]

Hmmm. I'm guessing here that unless he tried to put you away due to your lack of belief or would continually push his beliefs on you while in a therapy session than there isn't much you can do. I'm not even sure if counselors can get people committed. Hmm.. lets see what others say.

[B. H. Manners]

Originally posted by Gothic_J
I became a reverend today.

anyone want my therapy? :D :p


Where is my screw lose?

[Deacon Doubtmonger]

Originally posted by B. H. Manners
Is it ethical and/or legal for me to forward his email to some sort of professional organization that serves as a watchdog over licensed counselors? This guy has no business making his religious ideas criteria for who is insane.
Your recourse would depend heavily upon the law in your state, and could get tricky depending on how he represents himself. For example, in New York State (this may or may not still be true), anyone wishing to practice as a psychologist would have to have an advanced psychology degree, pass a state exam and be licensed ... but anyone, with no degree or demonstrated professional competence at all, could hang out a shingle saying "psychotherapist." A guy might also be able to get away with calling himself something like "behavioral health practitioner" as long as he didn't overtly misrepresent himself as a doctor or licensed psychologist; of course, he's hoping you'll fall for the similar-sounding title.

"Counselor," in this case, is probably short for "pastoral counselor"; the use of the shortened form could be construed as misrepresentation, but the state may consider this a religious matter and have to keep its nose out of it.

He told me he honestly thought that anyone who is an atheist has to be mentally ill.
As to professional organizations, you'd likely be out of luck if you went to one (if any exist) for pastoral counselors, as they truly believe this. To give you an idea of how they "think," I've taken the liberty of reposting parts of two earlier posts of mine exploring this issue.

(1) Here, I speculated on what it would be like if Xians could have people involuntarily committed for unbelief (risking hell is a danger to oneself, and telling others of atheism puts them at the same risk and makes the teller a danger to others):

You will now be confined, at the mercy of the entire psychiatric and religious armamentaria (drugs, shock treatment, haranguing therapists and pastors, endless mandatory bible reading, etc.) until you can meet the following "Objective [!] Criteria for Discharge" (OCFD). These are no joke: they appear in a textbook called Christ Centered Therapy by Neil T. Anderson, Terry E. Zuehlke and Julianne S. Zuehlke (Zondervan, 2000); though they appear to be primarily for outpatient therapists, it's no stretch to imagine them used in hospitals.

SYMPTOM: Uses self-deception in such a manner that results in hearing God's Word but not implementing it, denying sin ...

OCFD: States an integrated sense of self and relies on Christ as the only defense needed (pp. 212-213)

SYMPTOM: Refuses to appropriately submit to established lines of authority (for example, employers, parents, husbands [!], civil government, church leaders, therapist, and God)

OCFD: Verbally declares the choice to be submissive and appropriately obedient to those in appropriate authority over oneself (pp. 214-215)

SYMPTOM: Lives independently of others and God and relies solely on own strengths and resources

OCFD: ... verbally declares a commitment to place confidence in God for [OXYMORON ALERT] empowering a humble attitude ... (p. 215)

Imagine being told that cognitive-behavioral therapy is a biblical counseling technique (224), that an eating disorder constitutes violation of biblical injunctions against false gods and idolatry (239), that depression is caused by "any conflicts that may exist between you and your heavenly Father" (277), or that to beat addiction, you must learn "how to take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ" (304). [That's the DEFINITION of addiction, thou morons! Every thought is upon the next "fix"! So now we'll hear people in treatment centers say, "I've got a Son of God on my back"???]

BTW: If anyone's wondering whether insurance companies will bite on this, the book has an entire section on how to "convert any of the seven major areas of spiritual conflict into impairment language" (p. 209).

(2) Here I show how they define "mental health"; the poster I was responding to was wondering when religious belief would be included in the DSM-IV:

It is, in a manner of speaking. Under the broad heading "Other Conditions That May Be a Focus of Clinical Attention," there's code V62.89, Religious or Spiritual Problem. "Examples include distressing experiences that involve loss or questioning of faith, problems associated with conversion to a new faith, or questioning of spiritual values that may not necessarily be related to an organized church or religious institution." (DSM-IV-TR, (c) 2000, p. 741). This was first proposed in 1988 but didn't actually show up in the DSM-IV until 1994.

Though a V-code alone is only a secondary diagnosis, and by itself does not merit insurance coverage, Anderson, Zuehlke and Zuehlke consider it a big first step in legitimizing Christ in the treatment process. They elaborate a page later:

The best alternative is to address the spiritual issues from the biblical-Christian worldview as legitimate interventions for the wide variety of impairments that exist, as do humanist, utopianist, and New Age practitioners.... If questioned, defend them as legitimate interventions from the worldview of the client and the therapist, citing the parallel interventions from other worldviews. Only in this way will we begin to influence the field of counseling on behalf of the only worldview based on the truths of the Word of God. (Christ Centered Therapy, p. 208)

Ever wonder how these people define mental health in the first place?

... people are mentally ill if they have a distorted concept of God and themselves ... When secular therapists observe this, some will blame the church for messing up people's minds; most will try to free their clients from their "religious obsessions" by discouraging them from Bible reading or church attendance. The world, the flesh, and the devil all stand in opposition to our sanctification. (ibid., p. 184)

Hope this sheds some light.

Deacon Doubtmonger

http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/obscene/eck31.gif religion