Morality in general and Jehober Gyrate

[B. H. Manners]

Here is a question for you guys.

Morality is simply a set of standards that people hold to in dealing with one another to further guarantee our survival or well being. Some of these tend to be built around the inherent nature of our being and some tend to be imposed out of our own fancy.

Here is an example of what I am talking about: children simply cannot take care of themselves very well or not at all depending on their age level. Therefore, children have always had to defer to their elders out of protection if nothing else.

Here is an example of what I mean by morality out of fancy: It has been regarded in some cultures as acceptable and moral for women to walk around without anything covering up their breasts. In other cultures it has been looked at as something only an immoral woman would do whereas the other culture didn't think anything of it.

What aspects of morality do you think are more aspects of cultural and religious fancy, which really bears no real aspect on our survival as individuals or as a group? What aspects of what we consider moral are pretty much essential to the existence of our society?

[B34RZ0R]

Q: What aspects of morality do you think are more aspects of cultural and religious fancy, which really bears no real aspect on our survival as individuals or as a group?

A: All of them. Really our social norms are always changing and there isn't really ANYTHING that is Morally right or wrong - morals are made up and based off of someone else's code of conduct, what I may feel is acceptable you may think is totally reprehensible.



Q: What aspects of what we consider moral are pretty much essential to the existence of our society?

A: Well maybe the definition of what is moral is really in question so let me look it up from my favorite dictionary.com

HOLY CRAP THERE ARE 6 listed:

1. Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.

2. Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.

3. Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.

4. Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation.

5. Having psychological rather than physical or tangible effects: a moral victory; moral support.

6. Based on strong likelihood or firm conviction, rather than on the actual evidence: a moral certainty.

Ok so in reviewing the definition I would again say none -

What causes our 'society' to endure has nothing to do with morality in my opinion. Now making sure that more and more people care less and less about their friends and families and more and more about crappy jobs, shitty products and an un-attainable ideals set up by advertising companies and keeping up with the Jonses - well this is definateley something to be concerned about (and has absolutely nothing to do with this thread I know)

This is tough for me to answer as I don't really think that a lot of what people freak out about would really affect our survival as individuals or as groups. Also really as I stated before morals are just 'ideas' or thought's not concrete necessities that would condemn or ensure our societies survival.

That and I am becoming more and more a devout Misanthrope!

But of course this is just what I think :D

Bear

[Viti]

Great topic B.H. Manners, I think it will do better in MF&P though.

LadyShea
SL Moderator

[Alonzo Fyfe]

Originally posted by B. H. Manners
What aspects of morality do you think are more aspects of cultural and religious fancy . . .

None of them. If a rule turns out to be arbitrary, then it is not properly called a MORAL rule. Rather, the term ETTIQUETTE or CUSTOM more properly apply.

Rules for spelling, for example, are a matter of custom, not of morality. As is the rule that cars pass each other on the right (or the left).

Sometimes, people with false beliefs mistake a matter of custom for a matter of morality. But, in all cases, this confusion can be attributed to a false assumption -- an assumption that a diety insists on individuals obeying the custom or that the custom will involk some magical effect.

Indeed, if you go into any of these cultures and are able to convince them that the false assumptions are indeed false, the implication that even they will draw is that the things that they thought were a matter of morality are, indeed, nothing more than a matter of custom.


Originally posted by B. H. Manners
. . . which really bears no real aspect on our survival as individuals or as a group?

I do not believe that survival plays the central role that you want to attribute to it.

There is no value except that which relates states of affairs to desires. "Survival' itself is something that has value only insofar as it is desired, or useful in obtaining other things that are desired. The objective of morality is not survival, but the obtaining of that which is desired (which often, but not always, requires survival).


Originally posted by B. H. Manners
What aspects of what we consider moral are pretty much essential to the existence of our society

What do you mean by 'existence of our society'?

In the pre-war south, the continuation of slavery was necessary for the existence of their slave society, yet this did not settle the moral question.

Morality is concerned, I argue, with what it is "good for us to like". What desires make the fulfillment of other desires generally easier?

A desire to tell the truth

An aversion to killing innocent people

An aversion to taking things that belong to other people

A desire to obtain consent before performing actions that directly involve another person.

These are all examples of good desires.