Finding References to God Easy in America

[Jewel]

From centredaily.com (http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/6590935.htm)

WASHINGTON - Americans pledge allegiance to "one nation under God." U.S. currency says "In God We Trust." Congress opens each day's work with a prayer, including this recent exaltation: "Blessed is the nation whose God is Lord."

Even the high court that decides how much God can be in public lives starts off each session with, "God save the United States and this honorable court," and displays a frieze that includes a depiction of Moses as the lawgiver, holding tablets with the Ten Commandments.

Whatever the outcome of the battle over the Ten Commandments monument in the Alabama state Judicial Building, religious symbols and words will continue to be embedded in the government, the courts and other public places.

God is in the details - even the grand designs - of the republic. Some of the expressions of religion are widely accepted as part of American traditions - a kind of cultural deity - like a president taking office with the oath, "So help me God."

[Feather]

Yeah, that so-called "ceremonial deism" pap is just as unconstitutional as the granite false idol the slugs in 'Bama are worshipping.

The currency and pledge only acquired "God" with the Red Scare that Herr McCarthy brought down upon America.

And so forth.

[Jewel]

To me the "ceremonial deism" excuse, is not only untrue, it is a copout. The judges know if they admit the phrases are religious they would have to rule them unconstatutional. They are loathe to do that so they play the "ceremonial deism" card. Of course we find out just how meaningless those phrases are every time someone challenges them.

[Deacon Doubtmonger]

Originally posted by Jewel
From centredaily.com (http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/6590935.htm)

... religious symbols and words will continue to be embedded in the government, the courts and other public places. God is in the details - even the grand designs - of the republic. Some of the expressions of religion are widely accepted as part of American traditions ...
I have to wonder if this omnipresence is having an effect opposite of what was intended -- if we're all soaking in this god stuff, it's possible that it loses force because we start tuning it out. I know I'm not filled with awe and reverence for the alleged god every time I pull a dollar out of my wallet and see the holy phrase thereon.

Maybe Xians would get better responses if they "marketed" on the basis of snob appeal -- trying to make accepters of Xianity feel elite and exclusive -- instead of using "everyday" vehicles such as coinage to promote their dreck.

Deacon Doubtmonger

http://e4u.consoleradar.com/crazy/1198.gifhttp://e4u.consoleradar.com/crazy/1198.gifhttp://e4u.consoleradar.com/crazy/1198.gifhttp://e4u.consoleradar.com/crazy/1198.gifhttp://e4u.consoleradar.com/crazy/1198.gif
religion

[Gamer4Fire]

Originally posted by Feather
The currency [...] only acquired "God" with the Red Scare that Herr McCarthy brought down upon America.

This is not true, I have a 1908 dime that has IGWT on it, this was forty years before the red scare of the mcarthy era.

Actually, I would like to know when exactly and why IGWT was added to our currency. I've seen coins from as far back as 1880 with IGWT on 'em.

[southernhybrid]

Originally posted by Gamer4Fire
This is not true, I have a 1908 dime that has IGWT on it, this was forty years before the red scare of the mcarthy era.

Actually, I would like to know when exactly and why IGWT was added to our currency. I've seen coins from as far back as 1880 with IGWT on 'em.


You are correct. It was the "under god" that was added to the pledge to the flag in 1954. The god of money has been around for much longer.

Check this out about half way down the page. The history of in god we trust on currency. (http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm)


Almost a century and a half ago, 11 Protestant denominations mounted a campaign to add references to God to the U.S. Constitution and other federal documents. Rev. M.R. Watkinson of Ridleyville PA was the first of many to write a letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase in 1861 to promote this concept. 2 Watkinson suggested the words "God, Liberty, Law." 3 In 1863, Chase asked the Director of the Mint, James Pollock to prepare suitable wording for a motto to be used on Union coins used during the Civil War. Pollock suggested "Our Trust Is In God," "Our God And Our Country," "God And Our Country," and "God Our Trust." Chase picked to have "In God We Trust" used on some of the coins.


The money thing doesn't really bother me. I think it's pretty silly but harmless. Judges that put up ten commandment rocks in their courthouses make me very upset. I think we should have put In Gold We Trust on the money.

[Oresta]

southerhybrid:
The money thing doesn't really bother me. I think it's pretty silly but harmless. Judges that put up ten commandment rocks in their courthouses make me very upset. I think we should have put In Gold We Trust on the money.

Silly and harmless?

From your above, accurate account of the history of IGWT on coins:

Almost a century and a half ago, 11 Protestant denominations mounted a campaign to add references to God to the U.S. Constitution and other federal documents.

That campaign is still going on to the point that we are now battling uphill against a well-orchestrated and funded assault in the First Amendment.

[Worldtraveller]

Originally posted by Oresta
Silly and harmless?

<snip>
That campaign is still going on to the point that we are now battling uphill against a well-orchestrated and funded assault in the First Amendment.

I agree with you, Oresta. It's unfortunate, because I also agree with sh. It is silly, but not harmless. On the surface it appears to be, and that's what the religious whackmuffins and their followers want us to think.

Unfortunately, one can never just say, "well, you can have that, but that's all," because it's always just one little step more down that slippery slope....first it was IGWT on the money, then "under god" in the pledge, then there are occasional 10C's on various courthouses that are 'historical', which are then used to justify adding new plagues (spelling intentional) on more courthouses....you see where this leads.

So yeah, that one act is somewhat silly, and would otherwaise be harmless, but the secularists need to keep fighting these things just to mainatin the status quo these days.

...or maybe I'm just paranoid. ;)

Cheers,
Lane

[Worldtraveller]

Boy, did I kill this thread, or what?? :)

Lane "The Thread Killer" ;)

[ScumDog]

It was only until 1956 that the motto, IGWT, was added to paper currency (I really should say cloth currency, or fabric currency), while the motto on the coins, although not a motto then, started in the late 1800s.

[Oresta]

Here's a nice summary of the origins of the IGWT phrase on coins, that was suggested during the Civil War, but wasn't initiated until early in the 20th century. Teddy Roosevelt, incidently, thought it was a bad idea - and for good reason. <sigh> Where are the Republicans of yesteryear?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm

[Jewel]

Decades later, Theodore Roosevelt disapproved of the motto. In a letter to William Boldly on 1907-NOV-11, he wrote: "My own feeling in the matter is due to my very firm conviction that to put such a motto on coins, or to use it in any kindred manner, not only does no good but does positive harm, and is in effect irreverence, which comes dangerously close to sacrilege...It is a motto which it is indeed well to have inscribed on our great national monuments, in our temples of justice, in our legislative halls, and in building such as those at West Point and Annapolis -- in short, wherever it will tend to arouse and inspire a lofty emotion in those who look thereon. But it seems to me eminently unwise to cheapen such a motto by use on coins, just as it would be to cheapen it by use on postage stamps, or in advertisements."


He thought it was a bad idea to put on money, but he approved of putting the IGWT motto in government buildings and such.

[southernhybrid]

Originally posted by Oresta
southerhybrid:
The money thing doesn't really bother me. I think it's pretty silly but harmless. Judges that put up ten commandment rocks in their courthouses make me very upset. I think we should have put In Gold We Trust on the money.

Silly and harmless?

From your above, accurate account of the history of IGWT on coins:



That campaign is still going on to the point that we are now battling uphill against a well-orchestrated and funded assault in the First Amendment.

How do those stupid words on the money infringe on any of my rights? How do they oppress me? It's not about a specific religion. It's about some metaphorical god of money. I prefer to fight my battles where there is something that actually has the potential to harm me. That's why I see a huge difference between the stupid words on the money and an actual public official using his own brand of religion to make decisions that may involve me.

While I would prefer to not have such references to god on my money, I've not seen anyone make a case as to how that phrase impacts my actual life. It's true that Xians had much more influence on government back in the 1800s so it was easy to add some theist references without controversy. It wouldn't be so easy these days to sneak theistic references into public areas without a considerable battle.

In my lifetime, I've seen teacher led prayer thrown out of the school as well as an end to many types of Xian influenced censorship, so things have changed for the positive in many ways. Our country has become increasingly secular over the past 50 years. Obviously, there is a conservative Xian backlash now that we certainly should oppose. There are some things that we don't have a snowball's chance in hell of changing. ;) The references to the ceremonial gods are among those things imo.

Why not spend our limited resources and energy on things that directly impact our lives, instead of trying to change things that are now mostly harmless icons of the past? All I'm suggesting is that we choose our battles carefully or we may accomplish nothing, while polarizing ourselves even further from the mainstream. I think that's exactly what a lot of conservative theists would like to see.

[Satan]

I once received a $5 bill as change at a liquor store and when I gt home, I looked at it closely because the coloring was different and I thought it might be fake. It was just old and did not have IGWT on it. I was so pleased, I kept it for years and lost it in a move. :rolleyes:

Southernhybrid, maybe you're a little too optimistic for me. We bitch and moan about all kinds of stuff in our everyday lives, but how much of it is really going to change? How much of it do we want to change? I think we are comfortable bitching about things and don't need to change anything. Well, the majority of people anyways. If life was how we 'wanted' it, we'd all die of contentment.