Choking On Christianity

[Raydo97]

Hello Everyone,

I am new to this website and I LOVE IT! I look forward to spending some time here, reading the threads, and getting to know some of you.

This is my first submission and I would like to pose a question to the board regarding tips on maintaining my sanity as a rational person in a very Christian world.

I live in the "bible belt," and I am absolutely BOMBARDED by Christianity during my every waking hour. There are three Christian TV channels on my cable system and a half dozen local Christian radio stations broadcasting preachers, hymns, and Contemporary Christian music 24/7. On Sunday mornings, ALL of the local radio and TV stations broadcast church services and Christian programming. Needless to say, there are also churches on every corner... even in a small town of about 400 people, we have three churches!!

In addition, each day when I drive to work, I pass THREE CHRISTIAN BILLBOARDS! One proclaims the bible as "the Word of God," another warns Christians to "wake up" and realize that their schools and government are "anti-Christian." The other billboard is an adorable play on words explaining to any potential non-believers that "exposure to the SON will prevent BURNING."

I don't know a single person who isn't a Christian, including all of my friends and co-workers. I haven't been able to locate anyone in this area who even questions Chrisitianity, let alone recognizes it as mythological nonsense and borderline mental illness. I've attempted to have discussions with a few friends about it, but when they realize that I'm serious and not just "struggling with my faith," the situation becomes uncomfortable and the relationships are strained... so, I just stop discussing it.

I guess what really chaps my ass is when, invariably, some Christian will try to explain to me "how hard it is to be a Christian in today's world," or even better, that "God has been removed from our society." Really? Apparently, I missed that development when I woke up to a preacher on the radio, walked by the TV playing the "700 Club," and drove past a half dozen churches and billboards on my way to work with my Christian co-workers.

Any tips on how to keep my sanity?

Thanks!

Ray

[Beleg_Strongbow]

Wow, that sounds lkke hell. I'm lucky I'm from Canada and people don't really care what religion everyone else is and they tend to keep their own beliefs to themselves. The best I can relate is when I had to go to bible camp for a week, I just kept telling myself, "Just wait until you get home and can go rant on Infidels discussion boards." I find this forum will help you keep your sanity, being able to talk to people with the same beliefs as you. However, it will probably make the other people in your life seem even more insane.

[Heathen Dawn]

Hello :)

Remember, the people around you believe on the authority of an ancient book, their pastors' teachings and their own emotions. Whereas you, being an atheist, believe on the authority of evidence alone. That keeps you apart from them, and, in knowing that, you can retain your sanity against all odds.

[Farren]

Raydo97

I was brought up a Catholic in a country where the most powerrful moral force was the (bigoted) calvinist churches (they even did flip-flops to prove that a black person "isn't human").

We have seen massive changes here but the majority of black and white people are still christian.

I became an outright athiest (I think) when I was about 18, and have been honest and outspoken about it since then.

I can't claim to necessarily have influenced them (my siblings, who are both charming and popular, are/were but athiests too, and we share friends) in the last ten years I've watched the vast majority of friends follow suit. Even my dad, a previously traditional Catholic, now leans to the "no one can claim to know the truth, but each religion has fragments of it" kind of loose spiritualism.

From my own experiences I'd say that the key to being accepted, if not swaying people arpund you, is to focus on what you believe is "the good", rather than what you don't believe. When you have deep loving relationships with people and they believe your heart to be in the right place, they will bend over backwards to defend you if if your "spiritual' beliefs are diametrically opposite from their own.

Its hard to persist in the belief that those you know and love are damned to eternal flames when confronted with the reality of their niceness :)

Both parents of a friend of mine were deeply religious (his father was a minister and his mother a psychologist and theologian). Some time after he "deconverted" they declared to their flock that they didn't believe in eternal punishment as it would be inconsistent with their idea of an all-locing, merciful god.

Knowing the substantial discussions he had with them on the topic, I can't help feeling their theological position was in part informed by an inability to believe that the son they loved, respected and were so proud of would burn in hell.

[sakrilege]

Some alternatives to the xian radio stations can be found in this thread (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60991), and then there is the Infidel Guy (http://www.infidelguy.com/). I used to live in Alabama, I feel your pain. I hope the internet can provide some relief.

[Division By Zero]

Ouch. That sounds pretty lousy. I have a few friends that are free thinkers that I can vent with once in a while (okay, so I vent a lot), so it's not so bad; if I were in your place, with no one but Christians to talk to, I'd go loony. But I think you'll find pretty decent company here.

[Chicken Girl]

This topic is better suited to Secular Lifestyle.

[Raydo97]

Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate your input. Finding this site has already helped a little. It feels good to be in a place, even if it's only an internet site, where I'm surrounded by people with similar beliefs.

I was encouraged to rant, and rant I shall:

In my daily life, I feel like I'm in a "Twilight Zone" episode where I'm the only person in the town who hasn't gone mad, but everyone around me is convinced I'm the one who has "lost his way." It's truly bizarre to have Christian cult members say things to me like, "can't you see that you've been brainwashed by the devil?" HOLY SHIT! The irony is stunning!!

Trying to reason with Christians is exasperating and futile. I've learned to my complete astonishment that NOTHING I throw at Christians in a debate, no matter how devastating to their case, will cause them pause for thought. They won't even CONSIDER what I'm saying. The fact that they have no way to support, demonstrate, or prove any of their contentions doesn't seem to bother them in the least.

I've pointed out the bible's endorsement of racism, sexism, cannibalism, murder, and slavery, along with the biblical claims of a flat earth and a moving sun. The first response was, "I don't know where you're getting that. Those scriptures aren't in my bible." So, during our next conversation I supplied, in writing, the actual scriptures. What do you think they said?

"These scriptures were taken out of context."

So, we open the bible and read the preceding and following scriptures which, of course, provide no clarification and in no way qualify, change, or clarify the meaning of the provided scriptures.
Then what happened?

"Well... I don't have time to get into this right now. It's probably explained somewhere else in the bible and it all ties together."

In other words, standard responses right out of the "Big Book of Christian Clichés."

By the way, most of these debates were with family members. Like I said, I don't openly advertise my "lack of faith" where I live because it would only cause problems. Many of these debates were some time ago, as I have learned to let it go and ignore all of the religious ceremonies and pageantry at family reunions and other social situations. For a while, though, I was just so fed up with this idiocy that I was looking for a debate anywhere I could find one.

I was also operating under the mistaken impression that I could change a Christian's mind if I only had the chance to present the case against Christianity. I was raised as a Baptist and held many of those beliefs until I was in my very early 20's simply because I had never been exposed to any kind of biblical criticism or taught to question religious teachings. Eventually though, nagging doubts and unanswered questions overcame my "fear of the Lord," and I did some research. I discovered what a load religion in general, and Christianity in particular, really is. I wasn't devastated to learn that my beliefs were unfounded, just the opposite. I was THRILLED. I felt an amazing sense of relief that I didn't have to live in fear of God's wrath, the tribulation period, the rapture, my friends and family going to hell, etc, etc... It was ALL NONSENSE! WHAT GREAT NEWS!!

Being young and naive, I assumed that everyone would feel that same sense of relief and I couldn't wait to tell everyone what I had discovered. Needless to say, I couldn't have been more wrong.

Since that time, I've learned that releasing someone from the shackles of Christianity is not as easy as simply pointing out that Christianity makes no sense and flies in the face of all reason and logic, not to mention that it's often at variance with most of recorded history and all the known laws of science.

The problem is that people believe it because they WANT to believe it. It gives them a way to dodge their own mortality and promises to re-unite them with loved ones who have passed away. It also promises riches in Heaven, the smiting of enemies, blah, blah, blah. It's powerful stuff. They really have no interest in whether or not it makes any sense. It makes them feel good to believe they have a "heavenly father" who loves them.

Some people prefer fantasy to reality, illusion to despair. The problem is that I am not one of those people. I cannot simply CHOOSE to believe something that makes no sense. And, as YOU all know (Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers, etc.), once you walk through the door and see religion objectively, there is no way to go back and re-join the Christian herd.

Thanks for the opportunity to open the release valve and blurt out a nice, healthy rant. I hope I didn't get too carried away.

I don't get to do that very often.

Damn, that felt good.

[Gothic_J]

hehe - I said much the same rant when I joined.

freethinking is a wonderful thing ^^

[One for Sorrow]

Raydo97,

My situation isn't quite as bad as yours, but I do understand where you are coming from. I live in rural Oregon (Jeez, why couldn't I live in one of the nicer, more liberal parts of the state?!!) and I also don't know anyone in real life who shares my beliefs. The majority of my friends are Christians, and a few of those are fundies. I also know a couple Wiccans, but no other atheists. I wish that I had someone in the real world to talk to, but coming here has helped me a lot, even though I rarely post.

Keep coming here. It is the only chance you have of saving your sanity! It saved mine. (Or did it? ;))

It feels weird to be saying this since I'm so new here as well, but uh...welcome to the boards! :D

Jessica

[southernhybrid]

I started making atheist friends when I asked if anyone from this site, that lived in the greater Atlanta area wanted to get together socially. From there I started looking for atheist groups in my general geographical area. I found three and joined one. It's about an hour away but I have started making friends from the group. We also keep in touch electronically.

I live in a small city of primarily Xian conservatives. They are very nice people as individuals but I have little in common with them. If you make looking for other freethinkers a priority, you will eventually find a few. Yes, even in the Bible Belt you can find many atheists. We are everywhere, so don't give up. Look at how many of us are from the Southern states. You might also want to change your profile to include your state or city. I have made one friend just because I noticed that she lived in Georgia and I started writing to her. I'm meeting her in person today.

Joining the II is a good start in overcoming your feelings of isolation.


OH! A word of personal advice. Learn to tune out all that nonsense like the TV channels and the stupid signs. Of course some of them are really funny and make me laugh. I enjoy a good laugh so it's not all bad.

[Division By Zero]

Originally posted by Raydo97
The problem is that people believe it because they WANT to believe it. It gives them a way to dodge their own mortality and promises to re-unite them with loved ones who have passed away. It also promises riches in Heaven, the smiting of enemies, blah, blah, blah. It's powerful stuff. They really have no interest in whether or not it makes any sense. It makes them feel good to believe they have a "heavenly father" who loves them.
Yep. Don't forget about indoctrination, either. Many parents inject their children with Jesus DNA years before they even start the first grade. Regular doses from parents, friends, church, and just about everyone else helps solidify their beliefs as fact, and once the process is complete, you have a mentally-engineered godbot.

It sounds like you spent your entire childhood believing much of what you were taught, and I'm glad to hear you broke free of it- it sounds like you are a happier person overall because of it (if only you can keep your sanity now that you're seperated from the horde). Unfortunately, many people never escape. Case in point: half the country (the USA, that is) believes the Earth and all life on it was created as-is 6000 years ago. Only extreme childhood indoctrination, with regular booster shots of propaganda, can produce a phenomenon like that.

By the way, great rant. :D

[Thesto Neroses]

Originally posted by Division By Zero
Unfortunately, many people never escape. Case in point: half the country (the USA, that is) believes the Earth and all life on it was created as-is 6000 years ago. Only extreme childhood indoctrination, with regular booster shots of propaganda, can produce a phenomenon like that.

By the way, great rant. :D

I'm afraid I'm guilty of sharing this fact with classroom of Taiwanese teenagers. They were incredulous that such idiocy reigns in a country they have been taught is the most progressive in the world.

Of course, a month ago I also tackled them about belief in ghosts and challenged them to provide me with evidence other than anecdote. A few days later one of them said "You know, I don't know why I believed in ghosts - I did it because no-one else seemed to question their existence" (OK, I paraphrase - but you get the gist :cool: )

The Godbot issue in the US must be tackled, and soon, or there will soon be a vast credibility gap between the US and the rest of the world.

And don't get me started on missionaries bringing Gawd to the yellow horde! :mad: :banghead:

[RalphyS]

I know that Christian fundamentalism is still widespread in the USA, but is that really true?

Does half of the population believe the world is only 6000 years old? Which in my opinion is some sort of fundamentalism.

Or are we talking about the people living on half of the space of the USA?

It does explain the election of Dubya a bit more.

[wandererfromtx]

I also live in the bible belt. Dallas, Fort Worth is a hot bed for fundamentalism.

I feel your pain.

Keep looking, I have found that are freethinkers everywhere but some are uncomfortable with speaking out in the bible belt, as they become overwhelmed in the x-ain combat that ensues.

[Hastur]

Aye, you can pretty much forget about deconverting your neighbors.

Just live a good life, enjoy yourself and give their attempts at converting you the only response they deserve.
Derisive laughter.

[Manta]

I live in SC (USA)- and I have to drive right by the Baptist Convention HQ every day on my way to work...:banghead:

I just shake my head & think "how deluded these folk are" and go on about my business. Since I'm moving to St Somewhere, it's going to be interesting to see what sort of religious dynamic is there...but...at least I'll have one other atheist to join me (also nominally from SC) so we can rant together over mararitas ...um...margaritas....at the silly xians ;)

Tolerance & respect is what keeps me going - you should see the anti-abortion guy that hangs out on corners...shoving a baby stroller back & forth (which ironically would make any child in that stroller have a seriously upset tummy from motion sickness) - he also carries signs and hollers at the top of his lungs. I ignore him, mostly...but he's got the same right to stand there on the corner & speak his peace as I do.

-k

[Raydo97]

OH! A word of personal advice. Learn to tune out all that nonsense like the TV channels and the stupid signs. Of course some of them are really funny and make me laugh. I enjoy a good laugh so it's not all bad.

You're right. I know you're right. And most of the time, I do manage to do just that. Sometimes though, I just get so fed up with the lunacy of it all that I feel compelled to lash out. I will occasionally watch the "700 Club" and laugh until my sides hurt, especially when Pat and that pinhead co-host actually HEAL people at the end of the show. Unfortunately though, at some point during the show, I realize that the people who actually believe this kind of drivel outnumber me about 10 to 1 and I become EXTREMELY DEPRESSED.



I can't help feeling their theological position was in part informed by an inability to believe that the son they loved, respected and were so proud of would burn in hell.

Another good point. This is my long term plan. I live a life that's much cleaner than most of the CHRISTIANS I know and I love to say, "you've known me all my life. Do you really think I deserve to be tortured for eternity? What have I done to deserve that?" When the only answer they have is, "because you don't believe in Jebus" it seems to be kind of a stumbling block for them. It's got to be difficult to justify torturing a human for eternity for no apparent reason or loving a God who would carry out such a plan.



Yep. Don't forget about indoctrination, either. Many parents inject their children with Jesus DNA years before they even start the first grade. Regular doses from parents, friends, church, and just about everyone else helps solidify their beliefs as fact, and once the process is complete, you have a mentally-engineered godbot.

Agreed. I abhor the indoctrination of children into any kind of religion. I think it's despicable to take advantage of these kids before they are old enough to think critically about what they are being taught. I honestly believe the indoctrination of children into religion is a form of abuse because it is done without their consent and usually impacts their entire lives and their whole concept of reality.



It feels weird to be saying this since I'm so new here as well, but uh...welcome to the boards!

Thank you. My bags are unpacked. I've finally found a nice neighborhood. :cool:

[PopeInTheWoods]

Originally posted by Raydo97
... Christianity makes no sense and flies in the face of all reason and logic, not to mention that it's often at variance with most of recorded history and all the known laws of science.
But aside from that, xianity is all right. :p

Seriously, great rant! My pet peeve isn't so much the irrational belief system, but the medieval social and political positions that such beliefs promote.

Andy

[jayh]

Perhaps you are not as alone as you think, except that everyone like you probably keeps quiet. If you are even gently out about your beliefs, others will find you.

Some years ago we were travelling through Missouri, my (now ex-) wife is a non theistic Jew and was wearing a necklace with her name in Hebrew. The teenaged clerk at a convenience store almost stumbed over himself with excitement when he saw it ... apparently he was Jewish but kept it well hidden. It seemed to make his afternoon.

j

[SLD]

Wow Raydo that does sound rough. But cheer up, there are others who think like you. I too am in the Bible Belt, but fortunately a relatively large city and there are in fact many others who think like I do and I've found fellowship with them.

How far away are you from a big city? Or even a college town - like Auburn Alabama or Tuscaloosa Alabama? College towns will have freethinkers whom you can meet and talk to generally.

Also, come out of the closet to close friends who you think can handle it. I did. And you know what happened, many secretly came out to me. I was shocked. One responded something like: "You know, I really don't believe that bullshit either." He's still a church going person, but he confessed it's all for show. This has happened several times to me. Usually older more intelligent people though who've been around a bit. In any event, you are not alone. There are many many others who think like you and you just need to find them.

Of course, if you can't, then move away. You don't need to live your life in misery to please your family. Get another job in a big city and get on with your life.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out in a few weeks.

SLD

[andy_d]

You can't change people who don't want to change.

Best not to wind yourself in knots trying, IMHO :)

[HazyRigby]

I lived in Alabama for most of my life. I feel for ya.

('Course, now I've moved to Colorado, and instead of the relatively enlightened and secular mountain folk I was expecting, what do I get? I live pretty close to the Focus on the Family headquarters and every one of my coworkers is Christian. You just can't escape religion in this country.)

[ImGod]

Originally posted by Raydo97
..It gives them a way to dodge their own mortality and promises to re-unite them with loved ones who have passed away.

The oppsite of this statement made me feel so much better after leaving christianity behind. I can't stand being around most of my relatives for more than an afternoon. There is no way I would want to spend eternaty with them.

[TomboyMom]

That sounds horrible.
It sounds like it's best to keep your head down and leave the subject of religion alone with everyone around you.
In addition to this board, check out http://www.freethinkersforum.com/

Maybe a good idea to post here to try to find the nearest atheist.
Also, depending on how far you have to drive to get to an actual place, you might want to check out Atheists Meetup at http://www.meetup.com

FWIW, let me remind you that you are right, everyone around you has been possessed by evil aliens who have taken over their brains, and you are the only remaining sane person on the planet.

Rene

[chanoc]

I thought Juneau, Alaska was fundee! At least we don't have billboards in Alaska. Only one local TV channel has a local pastor give his bullshit every morning at 7:30am; it's simple enough to change the channel or simply not watch TV. I considered moving, but that would mean one less herectic humanist atheist in this town of thrity-two thousand. Jeez, I hate to say it, but if I was in your situation, well then pack your bags and beat feet.

[Rushianbeing]

Welcome Raydo97! I totally sympathize with you...I recently relocated to a bible-belt burg and I feel bombarded from all directions, every single day, by the lunacy of Christianity, mostly Southern Baptism. We have a set of three GIGANTIC crosses sitting high upon a hilltop above our town, accompanied by a GIGANTIC white sign with red letters that says "JESUS IS LORD". You can see it from everywhere in town. Every third yard has a sign with the Ten Commandments posted in it; most of these also have yard signs being given out by a local anti-choice organization that say "Pray to End Abortion". Every day on my way to work I pass a billboard with a picture of Jesus, the Earth, and a pit of flame on it, that says "Two Worlds-One Choice". I just had a kid I'm working with have to go into foster care because her court-appointed lawyer wouldn't agree to let her go live with her perfectly wonderful GAY cousin. I passed a Baptist church sign on the highway the other day that said "Would you rather spend eternity in heaven or hell? Well, DUH!!". The idiocy is absolutely everywhere, you just about choke on it, as you stated very accurately. I am so glad my husband is an atheist and I can at least talk to him. My family is all atheist too so I call them and rant when I really need to let loose (they live in Charleston and are struggling with the good righteous Christian idiots down there who are still fighting the Civil War).

And to top it all off, my husband came home from work last night with a look of wide-eyed disbelief on his face, and told me he'd just found out from his dad that his family believes his cousin in Michigan is possessed by a demon.

Yup.

So Welcome to the refuge of the sane!!! :D

Rushian

[Raydo97]

Thanks Rushianbeing.

It sounds like we have a lot in common. I see the three crosses quite often and it always makes me contemplate the absurdity of the crucifixion story. First of all, as I'm sure most people on this board already know, there is no "cross" in Christianity. The proper translation is "stauros," which is simply a wooden stake that people were either tied to or impaled on. If anyone by the name of Jesus ever actually existed and was crucified, and that's certainly debatable, it wouldn't have happened with his arms outstretched on a cross.

The "cross" of Christianity actually originated with the followers of the God Tammuz, who wore a "t" to represent their God. To make Christianity more attractive to these potential converts, the church permitted the pagans to retain their signs and symbols. Eventually, as is historically common, the "t" was absorbed into Christianity and presented to the world as the "cross" on which Jesus was crucified.

According to the research I've seen, the first actual cross didn't appear in Christianity until well into the 5th century. In fact, the cross was actually CONDEMNED by some churches in the third century because of it's pagan origins. Supposedly, historians have been aware of both of these errors (stauros mistranslation / origins of the cross), but have resisted making changes because of tradition and the power of the symbolism.

So, these giant crosses are not only completely inaccurate, but all of the ignorant people flaunting the "cross" jewelry, bumper stickers, and assorted paraphernalia, are actually promoting a pagan God and, because they are so historically uninformed, don't even know it!

As for the Ten Commandment signs in the yards, I've got that here, too! There are a couple of local churches that hand out bible quotes on placards that people post in their yards. Most of them are threats of vengeance from an insecure God who's pissed off at humanity for not giving him credit for everything. My favorite one, however, reads, "Ye do err not knowing the scriptures." Every time I drive by that one, I think about these idiots being spoon fed their beliefs by their preacher... completely unaware of the drivel in the bible... and I grin and think, "yes, ye DO err not knowing the scriptures."

Idiots.

[Rushianbeing]

Your research about the cross sounds utterly fascinating...could you tell me some of your sources? I would really love to read some of them. I am doing a lot of research myself but am always looking for more, and for help from those who have gone before me..:D
I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY that people due indeed "err not knowing the scriptures". I recently had a small and completely unexpected confrontation with my best friend in Knoxville, who had her born-again "experience" about 8 years ago and is lately becoming more and more scarily fundified, that really illustrated this point to me (she told me that there was no violence in the Bible, either OT or NT). How can a rational person make such a patently ridiculous statement??? Answer: (a)she's not rational, and (b) most of these professed fundamentalist Christians have absolutely no frigging clue what they actually worship. I admit to being naive on that point; I just assumed that Christians read the Bible.
I think my friend would be much more comfortable where I live; she would basically meet with NO opposition to her irrationality and her distorted thinking. I even went to the United Way kickoff a couple of weeks ago (was compelled to due to my job at a non-profit agency that receives United Way funding), and was subjected to an invocation beforehand, with the leader praying fervently to "our lord Jesus Christ" while over 300 people in the audience representing three different cities dutifully and reverently bowed their heads. I was the only one in the entire room that did not participate. It was sickening. It is like that at every single meeting I go to, and I go to a LOT of meetings. I have written a few letters to the editor to express my opinions on this bullshit, but I have to be careful because I work in sort of a publicity-oriented position, we rely on local funding, and the locals are all religious loonybirds. Makes me sick.
And I hate those friggin' yard signs!! I really REALLY want to put up some of my own from Leviticus and see how the neighbors like that. But the neighbors are prone to vandalism, being the good righteous morally superior Christian people that they are.

[Raydo97]

Hey Rushianbeing,

Sorry about the delayed reply. I've been covered up at work over the past few days.

Every time I read one of your posts, I become more and more convinced that we are actually living in the same town! I guess small town life in the "bible belt" is about the same no matter where you are.

I certainly know what it's like to be standing around at a public event during a prayer and look around to see every head respectfully bowed. I feel like I'm standing in an insane asylum. It is deeply troubling to acknowledge how truly ingrained Christianity is in this culture.

I'm sorry to hear about your fundy friend. I get so fed up trying to reason with these people. The sad truth is that there is NOTHING you can say to them that will cause them to question Christianity. If your friend is so far gone that she can't even recognize violence in the OT, she's beyond reach. Most Christians can't see the violence because they think "God" sanctioned it, so it's OK.

As for my sources, I've been studying religion, and Christianity in particular, for many years. You can find a lot of great sites on the internet. If you're interested in the origins of Christianity and similar topics, you should check out www.truthbeknown.com

A couple of really good books:

"Losing Faith In Faith" by Dan Barker

"The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You To Read" by Tim C. Leedom

Dan Barker's book is GREAT! Especially if you were ever a Christian and left the fold. It's about his journey from being a preacher to becoming an atheist. He was one of those fundies like your friend who finally took an objective look at the bible and realized it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

"The Book" is a good reference work. It's got a lot of interesting facts and articles by a lot of different contributors. It's handy to have around when you want to look up something.

Check them out and let me know what you think.

[Rushianbeing]

Thank you so much! That website is fantasic. And I am going to order those books from Amazon toDAY (no bookstore in MY town, oh, hell no!!). Yeah, I suspect my friend is pretty far-gone, but she is barely speaking to me since our little confrontation, and she's never been really forthcoming about her developing religious beliefs-I honestly believe this is because a part of her still realizes that she's being ridiculous. A rabbit can dream...:D
Thanks again for the resources. I was brought up in an atheist family and this whole Christianity thing is morbidly fascinating to me. I knew enough about it to realize it was hogwash, of course, but I had no idea how prevalent it is in certain areas of this country. I didn't really have to face fundies at all until I moved to this town and married into this particular family (my husband's mom is a maniac fundamentalist, who would drop dead if she found out her son's an atheist!). This will be good reading indeed, I want to be ready should any of the locals or my husband's family decide to try to win me into the flock!!

[Cardsfan]

Hi Raydog!
I can sympathize with your situation. Mine is similar only it's the mormon culture. I live in Salt Lake City where there is a mormon church seemingly on every corner, the local tv news stations have at least one snippet a night to do with mormonism (especially with the main street plaza lawsuits ongoing oh and of course the polygamists down south), and the missionaries are at my door at least once a week.
Fortunately I can console myself with the thought that I'm going to be moving back to Arizona in less than 5 months so I can make it!
One thing that has helped me is that at least SLC has an alternative weekly paper that is somewhat independent of the religious powers that be. Do you have anything like that where you are?

Good luck!
Marie