EvoWiki: Evolution Education Wiki

[Nic Tamzek]

Spread the word!

http://wiki.cotch.net/upload/darwin.png

Here is my unashamed plug for an experimental project, the EvoWiki, or Evolution Education Wiki. Wikis are open-editing webpages that anyone can add to or modify, e.g. the free encyclopedia, Wikipedia (http://www.wikipedia.org).

Here is the URL:
http://wiki.cotch.net/

...if the idea is popular it might get moved to a more official-looking address.

This would be a great place for people to collaboratively develop pages on topics that are too big for single people to put together themselves, e.g. "50 examples of the evolution of novel genes" or whatever.

For the flagellum, I've posted some notes to EvoWiki. Anyone can add/modify articles on any topic:

http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Flagellum
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Evolution_of_flagella

[Valentine Pontifex]

Nick, I got a correction for you.

In: http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Talkorigins.org

www.talkorigins.org does not archive the Chez Watt.

[Nic Tamzek]

Fixed it...ah, love them wikis.

[Heathen Dawn]

Megacool!

Can linguistics (linguistic evolution) be a topic on the EvoWiki?

[Nic Tamzek]

Yep, anything can be a topic as long as it relates somehow to supporting mainstream evolution education...

[Samnell]

Made a couple of short entries. Great idea!

[Ted Hoffman]

Great site, great idea!

[Nic Tamzek]

Hmm, site seems down, perhaps there are bandwidth issues...

[lpetrich]

I've also had trouble reaching that site.

I've contributed in only a few places, but my contributions have been somewhat more verbose than average. I've contributed to:

Radiometric dating
The Piltdown and Nebraska "hominid fossils"
Irreducible complexity, and honeybee societies as an example of it

[lpetrich]

It just came back. Read and post away!

[Xeluan]

Originally posted by Valentine Pontifex
www.talkorigins.org does not archive the Chez Watt.

What exactly is "Chez Watt"? I've tried searching through google but I canna find a reference that explains the origin of the expression.

Can someone enlighten me?

[Valentine Pontifex]

Originally posted by Xeluan
What exactly is "Chez Watt"? I've tried searching through google but I canna find a reference that explains the origin of the expression.

Can someone enlighten me?

It is a pun on "say what". It is a monthly award for rememberal things said on the talk.origins newsgroup especially for things inappropriate for the Post of the Month.

Most nominations are for writing stupid things or slip of the tongue^h^h^h^h^h^hkeyboard. Though truely witty things can and are nominated.

[God Fearing Atheist]

Im loving this Nic. I added a couple biographies, an evo-psych topic, and had IIDBs own Urvogel post his lovely critique of the "thecodont" hypothesis of avian phylogeny to the controveries section. It's a bit long, so maybe someone can make it more managable.

-GFA

[Nic Tamzek]

Yeah, these things are cool IMO. Some people have an issue with the whole "anyone can edit" thing, but once you get over that it's great. Whenever you're inspired, you put it what you're up for, and then someone else adds their stuff, etc.

Vandalism could be a problem but its easy to fix.

It's about a zillion times faster turnaround than writing up a webpage, asking people to review it, doing edits, etc.

Be sure to visit the talk pages for editorial philosophy etc., to say what you think on managerial/organization etc.

[Xeluan]

Originally posted by Valentine Pontifex
It is a pun on "say what". It is a monthly award for rememberal things said on the talk.origins newsgroup especially for things inappropriate for the Post of the Month.

As they say in Japanese, "Naru Hodo."

Thanks for the elucidation. Much appreciated.

[Heathen Dawn]

I've added three pages: Linguistics, Linguistic Evolution, and Tower of Babel. Feel free to tamper (*nudge nudge* to Lpetrich ;))

[markfiend]

I've added entries for microevolution and macroevolution. And created an account so that future edits I may (or may not) do are identifiable by more than just an IP address

[Heathen Dawn]

Added entry about the Firmament.

[Heathen Dawn]

I never had any idea how fun those wikis were to use... :)

Progressing nicely. I've added entries for OEC and Hugh Ross.

[GunnerJ]

I don't understand how these things can last more than a day, if anyone can edit anything.

[Valentine Pontifex]

Would it not be a good idea to require an account with a verified email address to edit the thing?

[Heathen Dawn]

Originally posted by GunnerJ
I don't understand how these things can last more than a day, if anyone can edit anything.

See here (http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Vandalism).

(added): yeah, I have an account and edit under it. You'll find "Shlomital" on the change log.

[RufusAtticus]

I just joined, although I don't know if I'm going to do anything with it right now.

However, I do have a domain (rufus.ws) that can be used if the current one is seen to be unappealing.

[Heathen Dawn]

Hey Oolon, we've opened a nice Suboptimal design (http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Suboptimal_design) page in the wiki. So far there are two entries: the verterbrate eye (by Steinsky) and the plantaris muscle (by me). Surely you can think of more? ;)

Yes, I've been adding quite a few pages on creationism, I have. As well as a spiffy geological timescale (http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Geological_Timescale).

[JaeIsGod]

Man , this is a great idea. Keep up the good work!

[Nic Tamzek]

I just posted this to t.o.:

Howdy all,

I'd just like to mention some nifty pages that have appeared on the EvoWiki in the few short weeks of its existence. For those who missed the previous thread, the EvoWiki, or Evolution Education Wiki, is intended to serve as a supplement to websites like talkorigins.org, for the purposes of collaborative FAQ building, rapid response to current issues, etc. The software and format are based on the model of wikipedia (http://www.wikipedia.org/ ), although the editorial philosophy is to support mainstream science rather than the viewpoint neutrality of Wikipedia.

Steinsky, the host, has done a bang-up job organizing the front page and organizational pages:

EvoWiki Front Page
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Main_Page

Some pages that I think are already useful, although as with all things Wiki they can always use more material, improvement, etc.:

Flagella
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Flagella

Evolution of flagella
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Evolution_of_flagella

Suboptimal design
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Suboptimal_design

Peppered moths
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Peppered_moth

Fake fossils
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Fake_fossils

Linguistic evolution
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Linguistic_Evolution

Thus far, vandalism has not been a problem, and a page on how to fix it if it occurs is here:
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Vandalism

So, everyone feel free to contribute, and spread the word (repost this post if you like).

[Nic Tamzek]

I just posted this to t.o.:

Howdy all,

I'd just like to mention some nifty pages that have appeared on the EvoWiki in the few short weeks of its existence. For those who missed the previous thread, the EvoWiki, or Evolution Education Wiki, is intended to serve as a supplement to websites like talkorigins.org, for the purposes of collaborative FAQ building, rapid response to current issues, etc. The software and format are based on the model of wikipedia (http://www.wikipedia.org/ ), although the editorial philosophy is to support mainstream science rather than the viewpoint neutrality of Wikipedia.

Steinsky, the host, has done a bang-up job organizing the front page and organizational pages:

EvoWiki Front Page
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Main_Page

Some pages that I think are already useful, although as with all things Wiki they can always use more material, improvement, etc.:

Flagella
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Flagella

Evolution of flagella
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Evolution_of_flagella

Suboptimal design
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Suboptimal_design

Peppered moths
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Peppered_moth

Fake fossils
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Fake_fossils

Linguistic evolution
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Linguistic_Evolution

Thus far, vandalism has not been a problem, and a page on how to fix it if it occurs is here:
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Vandalism

So, everyone feel free to contribute, and spread the word (repost this post if you like).

[lpetrich]

There's been a lot of activity lately in the articles on Archaeopteryx and related subjects; this seems a bit on the specialized side.

For my part, I wonder what might be my next Major Contribution. I'm thinking of:

Deep homology -- Hox genes, Pax6, etc.

Evolution of prokaryotes

Evolution before the Ultimate Common Ancestor

The RNA world

[Secular Pinoy]

I'm having problems using the search function of that website, it keeps saying Database Error. Is anyone else experiencing it, or is it just me (or my three different web browsers)?

[Oolon Colluphid]

Originally posted by Heathen Dawn
Hey Oolon, we've opened a nice Suboptimal design (http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Suboptimal_design) page in the wiki. So far there are two entries: the verterbrate eye (by Steinsky) and the plantaris muscle (by me). Surely you can think of more? ;)
EEEK! Missed this at the time! Righty-ho, will have a browse...

Cheers, Oolon

[Oolon Colluphid]

It could also do with a definition of 'suboptimal'. I'll see what I can do!

I am still struggling to turn 'my' list into a web page. I currently have at least (have lost count for sure) 54 items in it, and keep realising that I've missed obvious ones, eg dolphins having to breathe air (need to find out how often calves(?) drown), and things that I've not researched much myself like the plantaris muscle, vomeronasal organ, and one that occurred to me the other day (which I see someone else thought of), menstruation. And that's leaving out some more speculative ones, like milk. I've put so much work into that that I'd like to finish it, but EvoWiki looks to be a great way to spread the info too.

First thing will be to fix the vertebrate retina entry. A blind spot isn't the main problem with it; it's the fact that it is easy to damage (a blow to the head for instance), causing the retina to detach from its blood supply, which without immediate surgery leads to blindness. The cephalopod retina is anchored in by its nerves, so is much harder to detach.

Whichever way I turn, there's a new addition, it seems!

Cheers, Oolon

[Oolon Colluphid]

Wheee! I've just added flightless beetle wings to the to-do list in suboptimal design (http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Suboptimal_design) and will write it up properly soon... that place is just too brilliant!
(And <manic laughter> that page is MINE, ALL MINE! Bwahahaha!).

[Oolon Colluphid]

I've added nautilus eyes and mammalian tidal respiration now. I think I'll need to make a separate page for weird and pointless designs too, so as to stick on-topic with the purely suboptimal on that one.

One question: how reliable is it for linking to, given how easily changed and vandalised it is? I mean, I could direct someone there, who then vandalises and says "it says nothing of the sort!" This could make discussions using it as a resource a pain in the bum. Any thoughts?

Cheers, Oolon

[Paul2]

very interesting.

[Heathen Dawn]

Yeah, that Wiki sure is fun. :D

I’m sticking to what I know: linguistics, creationism and religious topics.

(added) About vandalism: see their page on vandalism (http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Vandalism).

[Nic Tamzek]

Hey, glad to see that people are getting the hang of it.

Originally posted by Oolon Colluphid
I've added nautilus eyes and mammalian tidal respiration now. I think I'll need to make a separate page for weird and pointless designs too, so as to stick on-topic with the purely suboptimal on that one.

One question: how reliable is it for linking to, given how easily changed and vandalised it is? I mean, I could direct someone there, who then vandalises and says "it says nothing of the sort!" This could make discussions using it as a resource a pain in the bum. Any thoughts?

Cheers, Oolon

As far as vandalism, if you have a page you are working on, I think you can set up your account to notify you of any changes, and if vandalism occurs, then you just go back to the last good version and do a "revert" (see the vandalism page).

I believe there are also ways to protect pages from edits, ban annoying users, etc. Steinsky is the admin so he would have these privileges.

One of the original EvoWiki ideas was that once a page became spiffy enough, it could get submitted to t.o. as a permanent FAQ, which would confer "immortal status" if you will.

nic

PS: Just in case, I would also recommend to people that when you do a bunch of work on a page, you save the ASCII text file on your hard drive, e.g. "archy_evowiki_v2.txt" or whatever, just in case something happens (like with UBBs sometimes) and the text doesn't get sent, or there is a server crash or something. Nothing like this has happened to my knowledge, but you know computers.

[Heathen Dawn]

Originally posted by Nic Tamzek
PS: Just in case, I would also recommend to people that when you do a bunch of work on a page, you save the ASCII text file on your hard drive, e.g. "archy_evowiki_v2.txt" or whatever, just in case something happens (like with UBBs sometimes) and the text doesn't get sent, or there is a server crash or something. Nothing like this has happened to my knowledge, but you know computers.

That’s what I always do when I post on the boards: I save a Unicode (http://www.unicode.org) text file of my posting in case something happens.




(Jeez, HD, can’t you make a single post without mentioning Unicode? :D)

[lpetrich]

I've added something about how politicized creationism is -- some other prominent pseudosciences are not nearly as politicized:

Astrology
Vitalism

Vitalism I mention as the "theoretical justification" of some alternative medical therapies.

And astrologers and vitalists do not seem very interested in getting equal time for their views.

I also note some politicized pseudosciences like

Hanns Hörbiger's Cosmic Ice Theory
Lysenkoism.

[Heathen Dawn]

I’ve added a reference article on creationists’ Statements of faith (http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Statements_of_faith). :cool:

[lpetrich]

I've added articles on these.

Baramins are "created kinds"; creationists differ widely about what baramins there are. Are they species? Or are they larger taxa? Some creationists have supposedly claimed that all bacteria form a single baramin; I'd like to see which ones, if any.

Especially interesting is creationists' differences in opinion about the extent of the human baramin. Some creationists claim that Homo erectus belongs, some claim that H. erectus belongs to some ape baramin, and some claim that different H. erectus specimens belong to different baramins -- the human one and some ape one(s).

Perhaps the most curious feature of all about baraminology is a curious unwillingness to review others' proposed baramins and try to work out which ones are most correct.

Endosymbiosis is how mitochondria and chloroplasts had originated. It seems to me that their genomic apparatus and extra membranes are good examples of vestigial features. And these organelles themselves can become vestigial; mitochondria can become hydrogenosomes (possessed by some protists) and chloroplasts apicoplasts (possessed by apicomplexans like Toxoplasma and Plasmodium).

Abiogenesis is the origin of living things from non-living material; it seems to me that "spontaneous generation" and "abiogenesis" are essentially the same thing, though the term "spontaneous generation" is often restricted to continual abiogenesis under present-day conditions. In centuries past, spontaneous generation was often thought to be very common; consider this quote from Alexander Ross in response to Sir Thomas Browne's skepticism about the spontaneous generation of mice:
"So we may doubt whether in cheese and timbers worms are generated, or if beetles and wasps in cow-dung, or if butterflies, locusts, shell-fish, snail, eels, and such life be procreated of putrefied matter, which is to receive the form of that creature to which it is by formative power disposed. To question this is to question reason, sense, and experience. If he doubts this, let him go to Egypt, and there he will find the fields swarming with mice begot of the mud of the Nylus, to the great calamity of the inhabitants." (Arcana Microcosmi, Bk 2, Ch 10, pp 151-156, 1652)Which must make one cautious about claims that this or that are self-evidently true.

[Nic Tamzek]

Glad this is still going! A few topics that I would recommend although I don't have time to work them at the moment:

The evolution of multiple-parts-required catabolic pathways for the degradation of toxic compounds such as:

- Pentachlorophenol (PCP)
- Atrazine (pesticide or herbicide or something)
- 2,4-dinitrotoluene (a toxic breakdown product of TNT)

...pubmed searches on e.g. "PCP degradation" will be productive...

[Nic Tamzek]

As I was saying somewhere, PCP degradation is not an isolated case...


Appl Microbiol Biotechnol. 2003 Aug;62(2-3):110-23. Epub 2003 May 15.

Evolution of catabolic pathways for synthetic compounds: bacterial pathways for degradation of 2,4-dinitrotoluene and nitrobenzene. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12750857&dopt=Abstract)

Johnson GR, Spain JC.

Air Force Research Laboratory, United States Air Force, Tyndall Air Force Base, FL 32403, USA.

The pathways for 2,4-dinitrotoluene (2,4-DNT) and nitrobenzene offer fine illustrations of how the ability to assimilate new carbon sources evolves in bacteria. Studies of the degradation pathways provide insight about two principal strategies for overcoming the metabolic block imposed by nitro- substituents on aromatic compounds. The 2,4-DNT pathway uses novel oxygenases for oxidative denitration and subsequent ring-fission. The nitrobenzene pathway links facile reduction of the nitro- substituent, a novel mutase enzyme, and a conserved operon encoding aminophenol degradation for mineralization of nitrobenzene. Molecular genetic analysis with comparative biochemistry reveals how the pathways were assembled in response to the recent appearance of the two synthetic chemicals in the biosphere.

[Nic Tamzek]

I just like to say that I stumbled back to Evowiki's:

Suboptimal design
http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Suboptimal_design

...page and it's grown quite a bit:

Table of contents [showhide]
1 Introduction

2 Examples

2.1 Vertebrate Eye
2.2 Nautilus eyes
2.3 Plantaris Muscle
2.4 Mammalian tidal respiration
2.5 Dolphin and whale breathing
2.6 Flounder eyes and mouths
2.7 Unusable wings on ground-dwelling beetles
2.8 Fused Bones
2.9 Land-Vertebrate Side Toes
2.10 Land-Vertebrate Blood Circulation
2.11 Amniote Gill Bars
2.12 The Human Appendix
2.13 Seed Plants' Tiny Gametophytes
2.14 Pseudocopulation
2.15 Flowers of Asexually-Reproducing Plants
2.16 Endosymbiosis
2.17 Reptile Cardiopulmonary Capability
2.18 Alulas in Flightless Ratites

3 To do list

...pretty cool...

[God Fearing Atheist]

Urvogel and I are working on a detailed response to Ashby Camp's TrueOrigins essay on avian phylogenetics. Its the least silly article on the topic ive seen, is popular with the more sophisticated creationists, and doesnt have a webbed critique, so far as i know.

-GFA

[lpetrich]

I've greatly expanded an article on Erich von Däniken (http://wiki.cotch.net/wiki.phtml?title=Erich_von_D%e4niken), and his ancient-astronaut theores. Yes, Raelism is far from new.

Especially ludicrous is his interpretation of the famous sarcophagus lid at Palenque (http://www.utexas.edu/cofa/a_ah/dir/precol/maya_palenque.html):

http://www.utexas.edu/cofa/a_ah/dir/precol/images/38_palenque.gif
Does this look like a depiction of an astronaut in a space capsule?

One would expect the gentleman in the middle to be wearing a spacesuit and be lying on his back, but...

And where's the space-capsule streamlined surface?

[Oolon Colluphid]

Originally posted by lpetrich
Does this look like a depiction of an astronaut in a space capsule?
Course it does. Just like seeing faces in unusually shaped rocks, and the face of mother Theresa in a croissant... The human mind is a great thing for seeing things that aren't there if you're primed to see them.
One would expect the gentleman in the middle to be wearing a spacesuit and be lying on his back, but...
Was it Arthur C Clarke who said that any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic? Just cos you can't understand it... ;)
And where's the space-capsule streamlined surface? That's easy. It's not for getting in and out of atmospheres, that's a spacecraft. For use in space, yeah? You can have any shape you like in a vacuum.

Oolon