The Hometown of Jesus [Archive I]

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Peter Kirby

August 25, 2003, 09:52 AM

What was the hometown of Jesus, at least as it can be discerned in the most ancient Christian tradition? You might think you know... but you are probably wrong.

Bethlehem

The idea that Jesus was born in Bethlehem is based on one chapter in Matthew and one chapter in Luke. The only place where the word "Bethlehem" appears in the New Testament, outside of the infancy narratives of Matthew and Luke, is in John 7:42.

John 7:42. Others said, "He is the Christ." Still others asked, "How can the Christ come from Galilee? Does not the Scripture say that the Christ will come from David's family and from Bethlehem, the town where David lived?"

Some might wish to interpret this as Johannine irony in which the crowd shows their ignorance of Jesus' true birthplace. However, according to the Catholic priest John P. Meier:

"The problem with this line of interpretation is that the Fourth Evangelist insists from Chapter 1 onward that Jesus does come form Nazareth (1:45-56), with all the scandal that causes even future believers (e.g., Nathanael in 1:46). John's insistence on Nazareth as the place of Jesus' earthly origins, a code word for the 'flesh' that the Word becomes, returns with theological force in his Passion Narrative (18:5,7; 19:19). Moreover, the evangelist never communicates any other tradition about Jesus' hometown to his readers, despite John's tendency to deliver informative asides to his audience while the drama is in progress. There is no clear indication anywhere in the Johannine writings of the NT that readers in the Johannine communities would have known the special Infancy Narrative tradition about Bethlehem." (A Marginal Jew, v. 1, p. 215)

This in itself casts doubt on the idea that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, a doubt that will become a disbelief as we investigate the accounts of Matthew and Luke in turn.

Matthew 2 (RSV)
1: Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, saying,
2: "Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and have come to worship him."
3: When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him;
4: and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.
5: They told him, "In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it is written by the prophet:
6: `And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who will govern my people Israel.'"
7: Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star appeared;
8: and he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, "Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him bring me word, that I too may come and worship him."
9: When they had heard the king they went their way; and lo, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came to rest over the place where the child was.
10: When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy;
11: and going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.
12: And being warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed to their own country by another way.
13: Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, "Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there till I tell you; for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him."
14: And he rose and took the child and his mother by night, and departed to Egypt,
15: and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, "Out of Egypt have I called my son."
16: Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, was in a furious rage, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time which he had ascertained from the wise men.
17: Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Jeremiah:
18: "A voice was heard in Ramah, wailing and loud lamentation, Rachel weeping for her children; she refused to be consoled, because they were no more."

Several difficulties in this well-spun tale were pointed out by David Friedrich Strauss long ago, as found in The Life of Jesus Critically Examined, vol 1., pp. 159-165

After receiving the above answer from the Sanhedrim, Herod summons the magi before him, and his first question concerns the time at which the star appeared (v. 7.). Why did he wish to know this? The 16th verse tells us; that he might thereby calculate the age of the Messianic child, and thus ascertain up to what age it would be necessary for him to put to death the children of Bethlehem, so as not to miss the one announced by the star. But this plan of murdering all the children of Bethlehem up to a certain age, that he might destroy the one likely to prove fatal to the interests of his family, was not conceived by Herod until after the magi had disappointed his expectation that they would return to Jerusalem; a deception which, if we may judge from his violent anger on account of it (v. 16) Herod had by no means anticipated. Prior to this, according to v. 8, it had been his intention to obtain from the magi, on their return, so close a description of the child, his dwelling and circumstances, that it would be easy for him to remove his infantine rival without sacrificing any other life. It was not until he had discovered the stratagem of the magi, that he was obliged to have recourse to the more violent measure for the execution of which it was necessary for him to know tlie time of the star's appearance. How fortunate for him, then, that he had ascertained this time before he had decided on the plan that made the information important; but how inconceivable that he should make a point which was only indirectly connected with his original project, the subject of his first and most eager interrogation (v. 7)!

Herod, in the second place, commissions the magi to acquaint themselves accurately with all that concerns the royal infant, and to impart their knowledge to him on their return, that he also may go and tender his homage to the child, that is, according to his real meaning, take sure measures for putting him to death (v. 8). Such a proceeding on the part of an astute monarch like Herod has long been held improbable. Even if he hoped to deceive the magi, while in conference with them, by adopting this friendly mask, he must necessarily foresee that others would presently awaken them to the probability that he harboured evil designs against the child, and thus prevent them from returning according to his injunction. He might conjecture that the parents of the child on hearing of the ominous interest taken in him by the king, would seek his safety by flight, and finally, that those inhabitants of Bethlehem and its environs who cherished Messianic expectations, would be not a little confirmed in them by the arrival of the magi. On all these grounds, Herod's only prudent measure would have been either to detain the magi in Jerusalem, and in the meantime by means of secret emissaries to dispatch the child to whom such peculiar hopes were attached, and who must have been easy of discovery in the little village of Bethlehem: or to have given the magi companions who, so soon as the child was found, might at once have put an end to his existence. Even Olshausen thinks that these strictures are not groundless, and his best defence against them is the observation that the histories of all ages present unaccountable instances of forgetfulness-a proof that the course of human events is guided by a supreme hand. When the supernaturalist invokes the supreme hand in the case before us, he must suppose that God himself blinded Herod to the surest means of attaining his object, in order to save the Messianic child from a premature death. But the other side of this divine contrivance is, that instead of the one child, many others must die. There would be nothing to object against such a substitution in this particular case, if it could be proved that there was no other possible mode of rescuing Jesus from a fate inconsistent with the scheme of human redemption. But if it be once admitted, that God interposed supernaturally to blind the mind of Herod and to suggest to the magi that they should not return to Jerusalem, we are constrained to ask, why did not God in the first instance inspire the magi to shun Jerusalem and proceed directly to Bethlehem, whither Herod's attention would not then have been so immediately attracted, and thus the disastrous sequel perhaps have been altogether avoided? The supranaturalist has no answer to this question but the old-fashioned argument that it was good for the infants to die, because they were thus freed by transient suffering from much misery, and more especially from the danger of sinning against Jesus with the unbelieving Jews; whereas now they had the honour of losing their lives for the sake of Jesus, and thus of ranking as martyrs, and so forth.

The magi leave Jerusalem by night, the favourite time for travelling in the east. The star, which they seem to have lost sight of since their departure from home, again appears and goes before them on the road to Bethlehem, until at length it remains stationary over the house that contains the wondrous child and its parents. The way from Jerusalem to Bethlehem lies southward; now the true path of erratic stars is either from west to east, as that of the planets and of some comets, or from east to west, as that of other comets; the orbits of many comets do indeed tend from north to south, but the true motion of all these bodies is so greatly surpassed by their apparent motion from east to west produced by the rotation of the earth on its axis, that it is imperceptible except at considerable intervals. Even the diurnal movement of the heavenly bodies, however, is less obvious on a short journey than the merely optical one, arising from the observer's own change of place, in consequence of which a star that he sees before him seems, as long as he moves forward, to pass on in the same direction through infinite space; it cannot therefore stand still over a particular house and thus induce a traveller to halt there also; on the contrary, the traveller himself must halt before the star will appear stationary. The star of the magi could not then be an ordinary, natural star, but must have been one created by God for that particular exigency, and impressed by him with a peculiar law of motion and rest. Again, this could not have been a true star, moving among the systems of our firmament, for such an one, however impelled and arrested, could never, according to optical laws, appear to pause over a particular house. It must therefore have been something lower, hovering over the earth's surface: hence some of the Fathers and apocryphal writers supposed it to have been an angel, which, doubtless, might fly before the magi in the form of a star, and take its station at a moderate height above the house of Mary in Bethlehem; more modern theologians have conjectured that the phenomenon was a meteor.

Both these explanations are opposed to the text of Matthew: the former, because it is out of keeping with the style of our Gospels to designate any thing purely supernatural, such as an angelic appearance, by an expression that implies a merely natural object, as a star; the latter, because a mere meteor would not last for so long a time as must have elapsed between the departure of the magi from their remote home and their arrival in Bethlehem. Perhaps, however, it will be contended that God created one meteor for the first monition, and another for the second.

Many, even of the orthodox expositors, have found these difficulties in relation to the star so pressing, that they have striven to escape at any cost from the admission that, it preceded the magi in their way towards Bethlehem, and took its station directly over a particular house. According to Suskind, whose explanation has been much approved, the verb for "went before" (v. 9) which is in the imperfect tense, does not signify that the star visibly led the magi on their way, but is equivalent to the pluperfect, which would imply that the star had been invisibly transferred to the destination of the magi before their arrival, so that the Evangelist intends to say: the star which the magi had seen in the east and subsequently lost sight of, suddenly made its appearance to them in Bethlehem above the house they were seeking; it had therefore preceded them. But this is a transplantation of rationalistic artifice into the soil of orthodox exegesis. Not only the word for "went before," but the less flexible expressions "till it came," etc. denotes that the transit of the star was not an already completed phenomenon, but one brought to pass under the observation of the magi. Expositors who persist in denying this must, to be consistent, go still farther, and reduce the entire narrative to the standard of merely natural events. So when Olshauson admits that the position of a star could not possibly indicate a single house, that hence the magi must have inquired for the infant's dwelling, and only with child-like simplicity referred the issue as well as the commencement ot their journey to a heavenly guide; he deserts his own point of view for that of the rationalist, and interlines the text with explanatory particulars, an expedient which he elsewhere justly condemns in Paulas and others.

The magi then enter the house, offer their adoration to the infant, and present to him gifts, the productions of their native country. One might wonder that there is no notice of the astonishment which it must have excited in these men to find, instead of the expected prince, a child in quite ordinary, perhaps indigent circumstances.

It is not fair, however, to heighten the contrast by supposing, accordinj to the common notion, that the magi discovered the child in a stable lying in the manger; for this representation is peculiar to Luke, and is altogether unknown to Matthew, who merely speaks of a house in which the child was found. Then follows (v. 10) the warning given to the magi in a dream, concerning which, as before remarked, it were only to be wished that it had been vouchsafed earlier, so as to avert the steps of the magi from Jerusalem, and thus perchance prevent the whole subsequent massacre.

While Herod awaits the return of the magi, Joseph is admonished by an angelic apparition in a dream to race with the Messianic child and its mother into Egypt for security (v. 13-15). Adopting the evangelist's point of view, this is not attended with any difiiculty: it is otherwise, however, with the prophecy which the above event is said to fulfil, Hosea, xi. 1. In this passage the prophet, speaking in the name of Jehovah, says: When Israel was a child, then, I loved him, and called My son out of Egypt. We may venture to attribute, even to the most orthodox expositor, enough clear-sightedness to perceive that the subject of the first half of the sentence is also the object of the second, namely the poeple of Israel, who here, as elsewhere, (e. g. Exod. iv. 22. Sirach xxxvi, 14.) are collectively called the Son of God, and whose past deliverance under Moses out of their Egyptian bondage is the fact referred to: that consequently, the prophet was not contemplating either the Messiah or his sojourn in Egvpt. Nevertheless as our evangelist says, v. 15, that the flight of Jesus into Egypt took place expressly that the above words of Hosea, might be fufilled, he must have understood them as a prophecy relating to Christ-must, therefore, have misunderstood them. It has been pretended that the passage has a twofold application, and, though referring primarily to the Israelitish people, is not the less a prophecy relative to Christ, because the destiny of Israel "after the flesh" was a type of the destiny of Jesus. But this convenient method of interpretation is not applicable here, for the analogy would, in the present case, be altogether external and inane, since the only parallel consists in the bare fact in both instances of a sojourn in Egypt, the circumstances under which the Israelitish people and the child Jesus sojourned there being altogether diverse.

When the return of the magi has been delayed long enough for Herod to become aware that they have no intention to keep faith with him, he decrees the death of all the male children in Bethlehem and its environs up to the age of two years, that being, according to the statements of the magi as to the tune of the star's appearance, the utmost interval that could have elapsed since the birth of the Messianic child. (16-18) This was, beyond all question, an act of the blindest fury, for Herod might easily have informed himself whether a child who had received rare and costly presents was yet to be found in Bethlehem: but even granting it not inconsistent with the disposition of the aged tyrant to the extent that Schleiermacher supposed, it were in any case to be expected that so unprecedented and revolting a massacre would be noticed by other historians than Matthew. But neither Josephus, who is very minute in his account of Herod, nor the rabbins, who were assiduous in blackening his memory, give the slightest hint of this decree. The latter do, indeed, connect, the flight of Jesus into Egypt with a murderous scene, the author of which, however, is not Herod but King Jannaeus, and the victims not children, but rabbins. Their story is evidently founded on a confusion of the occurrence gathered from the Christian history, with an earlier event; for Alexander Jannaeus died 40 years before the birth of Christ. Macrobius, who lived in the fourth century, is the only author who notices the slaughter of the infants, and he introduces it obliquely in a passage which loses all credit by confounding the execution of Antipater, who was so far from a child that he complained of his grey hairs, with the murder of the infants, renowned among the Christians. Commentators have attempted to diminish our surprise at the remarkable silence in question, by reminding us that the number of children of the given age in the petty village of Bethlehem, must have been small, and by remarking that among the numerous deeds of cruelty by which the life of Herod was stained, this one would be lost sight of as a drop in the ocean. But in these observations the specific atrocity of murdering innocent children, however few, is overlooked; and it is this that must have prevented the deed, if really perpetrated, from being forgotten. Here also the evangelist cites (v. 17, 18) a prophetic passage (Jerem. xxxi. 15), as having been fulfilled by the murder of the infants; whereas it originally referred to something quite different, namely the transportation of the Jews to Babylon, and had no kind of reference to an event lying in remote futurity.

While Jesus and his parents are in Egypt, Herod the Great dies, and Joseph is instructed by an angel, who appears to him in a dream, to return to his native country; but as Archelaus, Herod's successor in Judasa, was to be feared, he has more precise directions in a second oracular dream, in obedience to which he fixes his abode at Nazareth in Galilee, under the milder government of Herod Antipas. (19-23) Thus in the compass of this single chapter, we have five extraordinary interpositions of God; an anomalous star, and four visions. For the star and the first vision, we have already remarked, one miracle might have been substituted, not only without detriment, but with advantage; either the star or the vision might from the beginning have deterred the magi from going to Jerusalem, and by this means perhaps have averted the massacre ordained by Herod. But that the two last visions are not united in one is a mere superfluity; for the direction to Joseph to proceed to Nazareth instead of Bethlehem, which is made the object of a special vision, might just as well have been included in the first. Such a disregard, even to prodigality, of the lex parsimonies in relation to the miraculous, one is tempted to refer to human imagination rather than to divine providence.

Suetonius quotes an earlier author for a similar myth about Augustus Caesar: "A few months before Augustus was born a portent was generally observed at Rome, which gave warning that nature was pregnant with a King for the Roman people. Thereupon the Senate in consternation decreed that no male child born that year should be reared. But those whose wives were with child saw to it that the decree was not filed in the treasury, since each one appropriated the prediction to his own family." (Lives, Augustus 2.94.3)

Edwin D. Freed writes: "There is no evidence whatsoever anywhere else for Herod's murder of the children reported by Matthew. ... if he had committed a deed so dastardly that it caused loud lamentation and weeping among Jews (Mt. 2.18), it would not have gone unreported by the Jew Josephus." (The Stories of Jesus' Birth, p. 102) More important, however, are the facts that the story is a pre-existing mythical topos for the birth of a king, that the story is intertwined with the thoroughly implausible guiding star and court intrigue with three wise men from afar, and that the whole narrative is composed with an eye to fulfillment of scripture, quoted explicitly in vv. 6, 15, and 18.

Notice that the author of Matthew does not narrate a trip to Bethlehem for the birth of Jesus, as is found in the Gospel of Luke. Rather, one gets the impression that the family lived in Bethlehem when Jesus was born (see the reference to "the house" that the wise men enter in v. 11), left for Egypt to escape the massacre of the infants (completely absent from Luke), and came back to reside in Nazareth instead of Bethlehem because Archelaus governed Judea (v. 22). Matthew's infancy narrative contradicts Luke's. Let us, therefore, turn to the narrative found in the Gospel of Luke.

Luke 2 (RSV)
1: In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be enrolled.
2: This was the first enrollment, when Quirinius was governor of Syria.
3: And all went to be enrolled, each to his own city.
4: And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David,
5: to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child.
6: And while they were there, the time came for her to be delivered.
7: And she gave birth to her first-born son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths, and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.
8: And in that region there were shepherds out in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
9: And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with fear.
10: And the angel said to them, "Be not afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy which will come to all the people;
11: for to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
12: And this will be a sign for you: you will find a babe wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger."
13: And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,
14: "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!"
15: When the angels went away from them into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, "Let us go over to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has made known to us."
16: And they went with haste, and found Mary and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
17: And when they saw it they made known the saying which had been told them concerning this child;
18: and all who heard it wondered at what the shepherds told them.
19: But Mary kept all these things, pondering them in her heart.
20: And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, as it had been told them.

For a statement of the historical difficulties with this account, see this essay by Richard Carrier:

The Date of the Nativity in Luke (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/quirinius.html)

Within the infancy narratives, each evangelist concocts conflicting explanations for how Jesus came to be born in Bethlehem even though he grew up in Galilee. In his cautious manner, J. P. Meier writes:

"The somewhat contorted or suspect ways in which Matthew and Luke reconcile the dominant Nazareth tradition with the special Bethlehem tradition of their Infancy Narratives may indicate that Jesus' birth at Bethlehem is to be taken not as a historical fact but as a theologoumenon, i.e., as a theological affirmation (e.g., Jesus is the true Son of David, the prophesied royal Messiah) put into the form of an apparently historical narrative. One must admit, though, that on this point certainty is not to be had." (A Marginal Jew, v. 1, p. 216)

While certainty is rarely to be had, we may conclude with a good probability that the historical Jesus was born of Galilee, not Bethlehem.

Nazareth

We have already looked a bit at Luke's infancy narrative. But is the infancy narrative part of the Gospel of Luke at all? There are several clues that cause me to suspect that the first two chapters of the Gospel of Luke, excepting the prologue, were not actually part of the third gospel from the start.

The first hurdle that has to be lept is, would the text make sense if part were excised? Certainly it would! I propose that this is how the Gospel of Luke actually began:

"Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things which have been accomplished among us, just as they were delivered to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word, it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, that you may know the truth concerning the things of which you have been informed. In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of the region of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene, in the high-priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness; and he went into all the region about the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins."

None of the rest of the Gospel of Luke refers back to this infancy narrative in the first two chapters, nor even to the doctrine of the virgin birth. The genealogy of Luke 3:23 is the exception that tests the rule, as it begins, "He was the son, as was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli." If Luke meant to give the bloodline through Mary, Luke would not have omitted Mary from the passage altogether. If Luke meant to give the bloodline through Joseph, why is there this "as was thought" clause there, which makes the genealogy pointless? It is quite probable that the "as was thought" (ὡς ἐνομίζετο) was added to the text to avoid saying that Joseph was actually the father of Jesus, either by the one who added the infancy narrative or a later redactor of the text who sensed the inconsistency.

Additional support for the contention that the infancy narrative isn't presupposed by the rest of Luke-Acts is found in this statement by Joseph Fitzmyer: "when Luke in the present prologue of Acts refers to this proto logos, his 'first volume,' and briefly summarizes its contents, he speaks 'of all the things that Jesus began to do and to teach,' but not a hint is given of the infancy narrative." (Luke the Theologian, p. 29) Neither do the numerous narrative speeches in the Acts of the Apostles refer back to an infancy narrative in any way.

A study of the literary style of the first two chapters of Luke, which I have not undertaken, may provide additional confirming or disconfirming evidence. I did notice W. Ward Gasque state that there are "unedited phrases" that "do not reflect the best possible Greek style" in the infancy narrative of Luke 1-2 (A History of the Criticism of the Acts of the Apostles, pp. 267-268) Joseph Fitzmyer confirms this notion in saying that, "the Lucan narrative in chaps. 1-2 is markedly different from chaps. 3-4, not only in its style and language, which many interpreters find heavily semitizing, but also by the relation of 3:1-2 to the prologue of 1:1-4, a relation that cannot be glossed over." (Luke the Theologian, p. 29) So the first two chapters of Luke (excepting the prologue) may not have been the product of the cultured Greek who wrote the rest.

There is external evidence that provides some degree of support for excising the infancy narrative from Luke. Marcion of Sinope produced a modified version of the Gospel of Luke in the first half of the second century, and therefore is one of our earliest witnesses to the text. Marcion's Gospel begins, "In the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judea, Jesus descended [out of heaven] into Capernaum, a city in Galilee, and was teaching on the Sabbath days; And they were astonished at his doctrine." (reconstructed from references in Tertullian, Adv. Marc. 4.7 and Epiphanius, Panarion 42) Marcion did have motive to excise the passage, in order to maintain his belief that Jesus came down from heaven without being born. But it is still suggestive that no trace of the first two chapters is found in Marcion's Gospel and that Marcion begins where I propose that the main text of Luke began (after the prologue); it is enough, at least, to take the suggestion of interpolation seriously.

Justin Martyr allows us to set the upper bound on the date of the infancy narrative of Luke. There are two passages (First Apology 33 and Dialogue 100) that have parallels to the infancy narrative found in Luke (Luke 1:30-33 and Luke 1:35-38, respectively). This means that the infancy narrative was written between the times of Luke and Justin, probably in the first half of the second century.

Joseph Fitzmyer agrees in seeing the infancy narrative as an addition to the Gospel of Luke, though (he would say) one made by the evangelist himself. He writes: "This relationship [between the infancy narrative and the rest of Luke], however, does not mean that Luke composed the infancy narrative as the very first part of his Gospel. Rather, it seems obvious that 3:1-2 was at one time a formal introduction to the work--this we maintain, without subscribing to the Proto-Luke hypothesis (see pp. 88-91 above). Luke 3:1-2 resembles the prologue (1:1-4), even though it is not as perfectly composed a periodic sentence. Introducing, as it does, the ministry of John the Baptist, it shows that the Lucan Gospel once began at the point at which the Marcan Gospel now begins and at which the Johannine Gospel follows on its own prologue. Moreover, the position of John the Baptist in Luke 3 explains the peculiar Lucan emphasis on a 'beginning' (arche) associated with the baptism-preaching of John (see the note on 1:3; cf. Acts 10:37; 1:22). Further, H. J. Cadbury ([i]The Making of Luke-Acts, 204-209) has drawn attention to the parallels to this sort of opening in Greek papyri from Egypt, Dionysius Halicarnassus (Roman antiquities 9.61), Thucydides (History 2.2,1) and Josephus (Ant. 20.11,1; J.W. 2.14,4). John's ministry is dated by a synchronism of contemporary rulers in an introductory formula. Recognizing this feature of the beginning of chap. 3 makes it imperative to acknowledge the independent character of the infancy narrative and its telltale quality of a later addition." (The Gospel According to Luke I-IX, p. 310)

John Shelby Spong writes: "The elaborate dating process that begins chapter 3 (3:1-3) and the inclusion of a genealogy in the strange, indeed unheard of, place after, rather than before, the birth story are evidence for some that Luke's story at least at one point in its literary career started with chapter 3 rather than chapter 1." (Born of a Woman, pp. 101-102)

The idea that 1:5-2:52 are an addition is not a new one. Hans Conzelmann maintained this view in his 1960 book The Theology of St. Luke. John Knox and F. C. Conybeare did the same before him. The Unitarian theologian Joseph Priestley in the eighteenth century questioned the authenticity of both infancy narratives of Matthew and Luke. But we can trace back the idea of the addition of Luke's birth story further still, indeed to the fourth century. Joseph Fitzmyer writes, "Years ago F. C. Conybeare pointed out that a note in the commentary of Ephraem of Syria on Tatian's Diatessaron, which regards Luke 1:5-2:52 as a later insert into the Lucan Gospel, confirms this suggestion." (The Gospel According to Luke I-IX, p. 311) Therefore, though the spuriousness of this section is a hypothesis, it is not an arbitrary one.

If there were an interpolator, did his work stop with the infancy narratives? It would be wise to be on the lookout for more parts of the text that could have been inserted. Here I will identify one other interpolation.

Tertullian writes in Against Marcion 4.8: "But to Christ the title Nazarene was destined to become a suitable one, from the hiding-place of His infancy, for which He went down and dwelt at Nazareth, to escape from Archelaus the son of Herod. This fact I have not refrained from mentioning on this account, because it behoved Marcion's Christ to have forborne all connection whatever with the domestic localities of the Creator's Christ..."

This shows that Marcion's Gospel of the Lord had no mention of the "city of Nazareth" that is found in the canonical Gospel of Luke (nor, of course, Bethlehem). This shows that the story of Jesus teaching at the synagogue in Nazareth (Luke 4:16-30) did not form part of Marcion's edition. This is further evident from the way that the opening verse of the Gospel of the Lord jumps to 4:31 (Jesus descended into Capernaum), which would make a backtracking to the previous portion of Luke strange, and from the way in which the next portion of the Gospel of the Lord (Luke 4:40-41) presupposes that Jesus is still in Capernaum. (Thus I do not fully agree with the reconstruction of the Gospel of the Lord here (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/3827/Gospel1.html).)

Additional evidence for interpolation is found in the passage itself. Luke 4:23 has Jesus putting the quote on the lips of his mocking opponents, "Do here in your native place the things that we heard were done in Capernaum." But such doings in Capernaum are strictly excluded from Luke's narrative. Jesus is baptized in 2:21, led into the desert for forty days in 4:1, and returns to Galilee in 4:14-15. Absolutely nothing is said in 4:14-15 about Jesus doing miracles, let alone doing miracles while in the city of Capernaum. What gives? Luke is a superb storyteller who, on his own word, wrote everything down in an orderly sequence. On the other hand, a lesser pen could have slipped, especially if the interpolator were expanding on the story of Mark 6:1-6 or Matthew 13:54-58, where Jesus had already done a tour of Capernaum. This is then the most likely explanation of an otherwise puzzling reference to earlier healings performed in Capernaum. The passage is interpolated.

This is a quite important finding. Nazareth, if it existed at all in the first century, was a practically unknown hamlet, as is evident from the absence of any mention in the Old Testament, Josephus, or Talmud. Yet we find in the Gospel of Luke that it is called a polis or "city" several times (Luke 1:26, 2:4, 2:39, 4:29), an error not found in the other Gospels. Since these references are all in the portions both absent from Marcion's Gospel and spurious on other grounds, the fact of the erroneous but consistent references to Nazareth as being a "city" provides convincing corroboration for the excision of these passages from Luke's original gospel. (Also, Luke 4:29 has Nazareth set on a hill, which does not correspond to the Nazareth known to thousands of pilgrims each year.)

What other references are there to Nazareth in the work of Luke-Acts? The NIV indicates that the phrase "Jesus of Nazareth" (or "Jesus Christ of Nazareth") is found in Luke 4:34, Luke 18:37, Acts 2:22, Acts 3:6, Acts 4:10, Acts 6:14, Acts 10:38, Acts 26:9. However, what do we find in these verses in the more literal Darby translation?

Luke 4:34. saying, Eh! what have we to do with thee, Jesus, Nazarene? Ἰησοῦ Ναζαρηνέ hast thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy [One] of God.

Luke 18:37. And they told him that Jesus the Nazaraean (Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζωραιος) was passing by.

Acts 2:22. Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus the Nazaraean, (Ἰησοῦν τὸν Ναζωραῖον) a man borne witness to by God to you by works of power and wonders and signs, which God wrought by him in your midst, as yourselves know

Acts 3:6. But Peter said, Silver and gold I have not; but what I have, this give I to thee: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazaraean (ιησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῦ Ναζωραιου) rise up and walk.

Acts 4:10. be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazaraean, (ιησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῦ Ναζωραιου) whom ye have crucified, whom God has raised from among [the] dead, by *him* this [man] stands here before you sound .

Acts 6:14. for we have heard him saying, This Jesus the Nazaraean (Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζωραῖος) shall destroy this place, and change the customs which Moses taught us.

Acts 10:38. Jesus who [was] of Nazareth: (Ἰησοῦν τὸν ἀπὸ Ναζαρέθ) how God anointed him with [the] Holy Spirit and with power; who went through [all quarters] doing good, and healing all that were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

Acts 26:9. I indeed myself thought that I ought to do much against the name of Jesus the Nazaraean. (Ἰησοῦ τοῦ Ναζωραίου)

What does this word "Nazaraean" mean? Does it mean "man from Nazareth"? There is one more occurence of the term in Luke-Acts, and it supplies a crucial piece of evidence.

Acts 24:5. "For finding this man [Paul] a pest, and moving sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a leader of the sect of the Nazaraeans." (τῶν Ναζωραίων)

Clearly, then, to be a Nazaraean is to belong to a religious sect and does not imply that one hails from the city of Nazareth.

What was this sect of which Jesus was reportedly a member? Epiphanius writes, "They [the nazirites] did not call themselves Nasaraeans either; the Nasaraean sect was before Christ, and did not know Christ." (Panarion 2.29.5.7) Epiphanius also writes: "For this group did not name themselves after Christ or with Jesus' own name, but 'Nazoraeans.' However, at that time all Christians were called Nazoraeans in the same way." (Panarion 2.29.1.2) That is, Epiphanius says that the Nazoraeans preceded Christ but some of them came to be followers of Jesus, later to be called Christians, but at first known by the name of Nazoraean. Epiphanius writes, "Today this sect of the Nazoraeans is found in Boroea near Coelesyria, in the Decapolis near Pella, and in Bashanitis at the place caled Cocabe--Khokabe in Hebrew." (Panarion 2.29.7.7) Like the Ebionites, who are probably identical to the Jesus movement known as the Nazoraeans, they have a "Gospel of Matthew" in the Hebrew tongue (Panarion 2.29.9.4) and follow Jewish laws. Given the evidence in the seven passages of Luke-Acts above, Jesus was known as a Nazarene or Nazaraean, and it would be a strange coincidence if the pre-Christian sect to which Jesus belonged matched the name of his hometown. Jesus was called a Nazaraean because that was his religious affiliation, not because Nazareth was his birthplace.

What is the difference between "Nazarene" and "Nazaraean," if any? I don't know. The Anglicized "Nazarene" in Darby has ναζαρηνος for the nominative, ναζαρηνον for the accusative, ναζαρηνου for the genetive, and ναζαρηνε for the vocative (all singular). The Anglicized "Nazaraean" in Darby has ναζωραιος for the nominative, ναζωραιον for the accusative, ναζωραιου for the genetive, and ναζωραιων for the genetive plural. What is important to remember is that Hebrew has no vowels, and so a Hebrew word (phonetically spelled) NZR could develop different mutations when transliterated into Greek. Someone who is more competent in semitic languages may be able to unravel this little mystery. For now, I will simply take the stance that neither "Nazarene" nor "Nazaraean" necessarily indicate origin in a town of Nazareth.

The last bit of recalcitrant data in Luke's work is Acts 10:38, which refers to "Jesus who [is] from Nazareth" (Ἰησοῦν τὸν ἀπὸ Ναζαρέθ). In the Greek, this is just what we would expect for one who came from Nazareth, as distinct from the seven other references above. With the evidence already seen concerning the way in which Jesus is referenced as a "Nazaraean" or "Nazarene" seven times elsewhere in Luke-Acts, one would be rational to suspect that a glossator has changed "the Nazarene" to "who is from Nazareth," a modification due to the scribe's ignorance of any distinction between the two phrases. But is this reasonable conjecture based on any manuscript evidence? No variations for the verse are listed in the UBS edition, although it is possible that one out of thousands of Greek manuscripts has a variation in this phrase. As for versions in other languages, I have only the Coptic (done by Horner), in the Sahidic and Bohairic dialects. The Sahidic clearly agrees with the Greek in giving "he (who was) out of Nazaret" at this verse. But the Bohairic has "Jesus the [i]Nazarene," with the translator using italics to indicate a variation from the Greek. In fact, the exact same phrase "Jesus the Nazarene" that is found in the Bohairic of Acts 10:38 is also found in the Bohairic of Luke 4:34 (where it is in agreement with the Greek).

Therefore, the last wrinkle is ironed out. Luke, the man whose two-volume work fills over a quarter of the New Testament, did not know of Jesus as having come out of a town called Nazareth, but rather considers Jesus to be part of the Nazarene/Nazaraean sect. So where did Nazareth of Galilee enter the picture?

To find the answer to that question, we need only turn to the Gospel of Matthew and examine the occurences of "Nazareth" there (quotations from Darby).

Matthew 2:23. and came and dwelt in a town called Nazareth; so that that should be fulfilled which was spoken through the prophets, He shall be called a Nazaraean.

Matthew 4:13. and having left Nazareth, he went and dwelt at Capernaum, which is on the sea-side in the borders of Zabulon and Nepthalim,

Matthew 21:11. And the crowds said, This is Jesus the prophet who is from Nazareth of Galilee.

Matthew 26:71. And when he had gone out into the entrance, another [maid] saw him, and says to those there, This [man] also was with Jesus the Nazaraean.

Matthew 26:71 corresponds with Mark 14:67, which says, "and seeing Peter warming himself, having looked at him, says, And thou wast with the Nazarene, Jesus." This suggests the equivalency of "Nazarene" and "Nazaraean" and indicates that Matthew uses the Nazaraean term (instead of the town Nazareth) when borrowing this verse and in the most curious verse twenty-three, chapter two.

Indeed, this verse in Matthew is the smoking gun. The author of Matthew uses a "fulfillment" formula eleven times by my count: 1:22, 2:15, 2:17, 2:23, 4:14, 8:17, 12:17, 13:35, 21:4, 26:56, 27:9. In all or nearly all cases, the prediction-event correspondence is purely Matthew's invention: there was no such prediction, there was no such event, or both. In the case of Matthew 2:23, we do not know which particular passage Matthew had in mind for the statement, "He shall be called a Nazaraean." Indeed, it is likely that Matthew had no particular passage in mind, seeing that he uses the plural "prophets" and "spoken" instead of written, with the suggestion that Matthew assumes the prophecy is there somewhere, or was once uttered if not written down. Why would Matthew assume that? Because Jesus was called a Nazaraean, and Matthew wanted to find scriptural support showing that every aspect of the life of Jesus was according to God's plan. The author of Matthew clearly regarded Jesus as having lived in Nazareth, as further shown in 4:13 and 21:11. Probably the Antiochene Matthew, where the disciples were first called Christians (Acts 11:26), was fuzzy on what it would have meant to be a "Nazaraean" fifty years ago. To make the mistake most plausible, it would be helpful to assume that there was a small village in Galilee known as Nazareth in the first century, and that the author of Matthew made the deduction that "Jesus the Nazaraean" meant the one from Nazareth.

Capernaum

Finally we come to a verse that would appear to throw a monkey wrench into the works, Mark 1:9. I have just argued that the identification of Nazareth as the residence of Jesus stems from Matthew's confusion over the term "Nazaraean," which is clearly used to refer to a religious sect in Luke-Acts. But I also believe that the Gospel of Mark came before both Matthew and Luke. So how is this possible?

Mark 1:9. And it came to pass in those days [that] Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, (ἀπὸ Ναζαρὲτ τῆς Γαλιλαίας) and was baptised by John at the Jordan.

Given the evidence seen so far, there is only one solution: this verse in Mark has been modified. I suggest that the original had "Jesus came from Galilee." Both "Nazareth" and "Galilee" are in the genetive case in Mark 1:9, so the proposal requires the insertion of two Greek words and nothing else. The idea is justified given the evidence already found in Luke-Acts and Matthew, but can we find anything in the Gospel of Mark to support it? In fact we can!

The word "Nazarene" or "Nazaraean" is found four other times in the Gospel of Mark, while the word for a location called "Nazareth" is found in no other passage of Mark.

Mark 1:24. saying, Eh! what have we to do with thee, Jesus, Nazarene? Art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the holy one of God.

Mark 10:47. And having heard that it was Jesus the Nazaraean, he began to cry out and to say, O Son of David, Jesus, have mercy on me.

Mark 14:67. and seeing Peter warming himself, having looked at him, says, And thou wast with the Nazarene, Jesus.

Mark 16:6. but he says to them, Be not alarmed. Ye seek Jesus, the Nazarene, the crucified one. He is risen, he is not here; behold the place where they had put him.

Furthermore, the indications in Mark are that Jesus lived in Capernaum, a hub of his ministry.

Mark 2:1. When Jesus returned to Capernaum after some days, it became known that he was at home. (NAB translation)

This indicates that Jesus had a house in Capernaum. Unlike Matthew 4:13, the author of Mark doesn't announce any move of Jesus from Nazareth, but suggests that Jesus smoothly transitioned from Galilee to the Jordan and back to Capernaum (without a stop at Nazareth), suggesting that Capernaum in Galilee was his point of origin in the first place. The same house is mentioned later:

Mark 3:20-31. "He came home. Again [the] crowd gathered, making it impossible for them even to eat. When his relatives heard of this they set out to seize him, for they said, 'He is out of his mind.' ... His mother and his brothers arrived. Standing outside they sent word to him and called him." (NAB)

This clearly indicates that the home of Jesus was at some distance to where his mother and his brothers lived. His relatives don't arrive on the scene until a separate scene has played out, and they have to call on Jesus from outside his home in Capernaum.

The last relevant passage in Mark says this:

Mark 6:1-6. He departed from there and came to his native place, accompanied by his disciples. When the sabbath came he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were astonished. They said, "Where did this man get all this? What kind of wisdom has been given him? What mighty deeds are wrought by his hands! Is he not the carpenter [or, carpenter's son], the son of Mary, and the brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him. Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his native place and among his own kin and in his own house." So he was not able to perform any mighty deed there, apart from curing a few sick people by laying his hands on them. He was amazed at their lack of faith.

The native place cannot be Capernaum, since the idea of Jesus teaching and doing miracles there would not have been new news (1:21-28 etc.). But, in reality, it would not have been the site known as Nazareth, which does not have a first century synagogue. In all probability, the author of Mark didn't know where Jesus was born, and that is why this place is not named in 6:1 (nor does 3:21 state the town from which his relatives set out). Mark 9:33 indicates that Jesus shared his house in Capernaum with his disciples, who may not have informed later generations of Nazaraeans where Jesus was born--although they would guess.

And what of the tradition that Jesus said "I can't get no respect at home"? It is remarkably ubiquitous, being found in Gospel of Thomas 31, Mark 6:4, Luke 4:24 (the interpolation), and John 4:44. Perhaps Jesus began to have a rocky relationship with his hometown in the later part of his ministry, even after performing several faith healings and exorcisms there? Incidental evidence for such an idea is found in a Q saying.

Matthew 11:23. And thou, Capernaum, who hast been raised up to heaven, shalt be brought down even to hades. For if the works of power which have taken place in thee, had taken place in Sodom, it had remained until this day.

Luke 10:15. And thou, Capernaum, who hast been raised up to heaven, shalt be brought down even to hades.

No doubt the recently evicted Jesus may have quipped, "Foxes have their dens and birds have their nests. But the son of man has nowhere to lay his head and gain repose." (Thomas 86)

Where does the Gospel of John fit in all this? John 4:44 is confusing where it is, as Jesus is given an enthusiastic welcome in Galilee, while it would be hard to imagine that John set his home in Samaria, where he had just come from. Raymond Brown writes, "A better solution for the problem created by vs. 44 is to regard it as an addition by the redactor, exactly on the same pattern as ii 12. From a tradition akin to that of the Synoptic Gospels, the redactor had a saying to the effect that Jesus was not properly appreciated in Galilee. He added this saying to the Gospel just before a story that will illustrate the unsatisfactory faith of the Galileans, a faith based on a crude dependence on signs and wonders (vs. 48). In his estimation the welcome given to Jesus in Galilee (vs. 45) is just as shallow as the reaction that greeted Jesus in Jerusalem (ii 23-25). Therefore, the insertion of vs. 44 does not contradict 45 once we understand that a superficial welcome based on enthusiasm for miracles is no real honor." (The Gospel According to John I-XII, p. 187) Otherwise, all the other indications point to Galilean origin (1:46, 2:1, 7:42, 7:52), although the disciples of Jesus had homes in Jerusalem at least by the time of passion week (16:32, 20:10). As the latest of the four gospels, the Johannine evangelist accepted the tradition started by Matthew that Jesus came from Nazareth, although the formulaic title "Jesus the Nazaraean" is still going strong (18:5, 18:7, 19:19).

Overview

So, here is the sequence of events revealed by the above discussion:

1. The family of Jesus live somewhere in Galilee, the unspecified native place in Mark.
2. Jesus has a home in Capernaum while an adult.
3. Jesus joins up with the Nazaraean sect.
4. Jesus is declared the Messiah at some point (whether before or after execution doesn't concern me here).
5. The followers of Jesus belong to the same group as Jesus and are still called Nazaraeans.
6. Jesus Messianists assume that Jesus, as the Davidic Messiah, must have been born in Bethlehem, based on a reading of Micah 5:2 and other scripture.
7. The Antiochene church members are called "Christians" by outsiders.
8. The Gospel of Mark is written, wherein the author reveals no knowledge of where the family of Jesus lived (except that it is in Galilee), although he knows that Jesus had a home in Capernaum. The author of Mark wasn't aware of or didn't agree with the assumption that Jesus was born in Bethlehem as the Davidic Messiah.
9. The author of Matthew places the original home of Jesus and his parents in Bethlehem, along with the whole star, magi, and massacre legend.
10. Misunderstanding the sectarian title 'Jesus the Nazaraean', the Antiochene Christian Matthew has Jesus return from Egypt to Nazareth, fulfilling what the prophets said (thus getting two spurious prophecies for one birth: Bethlehem and Nazareth).
11. Either before or after Matthew, Luke composes his two-volume work, which refers to Jesus "the Nazarene" or "the Nazaraean" seven times, and clearly regards this as the name of a religious group (Acts 24:5).
12. The Gospel of John in its main redaction is composed, innocent of the idea that Jesus was born in Bethlehem as the Davidic Messiah, but aware of the tradition spawned by Matthew that "Jesus the Nazaraean" meant "Jesus from Nazareth."
13. A scribe adds the infancy narrative of Luke 1:5-2:52 and the Nazareth episode of Luke 4:16-30 (at least), where the legend of Nazareth has grown to the point where it is a full-fledged city with a synagogue set on a hill, none of which matches the archaeological evidence.
14. Marcion of Sinope surely modifies his copy of Luke, but the copy he modified was untainted by the additions of the mentioned scribe.
15. The Infancy Gospel of James and the apologetics of Justin Martyr are published, showing dependence on the infancy narrative of Luke. The same for later church fathers.
16. The Gospel of Philip, though giving two different etymologies for "the Nazarene" ("he who reveals what is hidden" and "the Truth"), does not think to connect the term with a place called Nazareth.
17. The original Jews-for-Jesus sect known as the Nazoraeans (now extinct in its pre-Christian form), but more commonly the Ebionites, survives in pockets unto the fourth century when Epiphanius wrote.

The truth is out there...really out there. I hope you enjoyed your journey with me after the truth of this facet of the traditions about Jesus.

best,
Peter Kirby

Yuri Kuchinsky

August 25, 2003, 01:33 PM

Hello, Peter,

I've read your long survey of this subject, but generally I didn't find there a lot of new stuff, at least for me.

This is one of those famous cruxes in NT studies that the scholars have been fighting over for centuries. The more one reads about this, the less clarity there seems to be... And I think this was your impression as well. :)

I think Loisy has quite a good short summary of the issue in his BIRTH OF THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION, and I generally agree with what he says. Basically, he says that Jesus wasn't really from Nazareth (and of course he wasn't from Bethlehem either). So this putative home town of Jesus was really something that was added later to the gospel stories. And the reason why it was added was to disguise the probable fact that he belonged to the sect of "Nazoreans", the same sect that John the Baptist may have been a member of, or maybe even the founder of.

Here is Loisy's summary. I've inserted the Notes right into the text, and omitted some stuff that was unrelated to the issue.

[quote]

From Alfred Loisy, THE BIRTH OF THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION, Chapter 2:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/loisy/chapter2.html

The assignment of Nazareth as the family home of
Jesus was an attempt made by the same [evangelical] tradition
after the event to explain the surname "Nazorean,"
which was originally added to the name of Jesus and
remained the name for designating Christians in
Rabbinic literature and in Eastern countries. This
name, Nazorean, is quite clearly the name of a sect
having no connexion with the town of Nazareth,
unless it be that of a common etymology. Nor has it
any closer connexion with the nazirs, "the men under
vow," mentioned in the Old Testament. It may have
been the name of the Baptist's sect, of which the
Christian was originally an offshoot.

[NOTE 20:
Cf. Holscher, 230, n. 10; 239, n. 5. Ed. Meyer ii,
423, n. 2, maintains the connexion of the name with
Nazareth. On the other hand, the existence of
Nazareth at the time of Jesus has been denied, but
wrongly. Nazareth was then in existence and only
because it existed could it be used for a forced
explanation of the title Nazorean when the effort was
made to efface the original connexion of Jesus and
his sect with the baptist sect of which they were
really the issue. There is no etymological relation
between Nazareth and the Nazareans or Nazoreans,
whose Semitic names are written with a tsade, and the
nazirs, which is written with a zain. The nazirs are
"men under vow" (devoted). Nazorean probably
means "observer."]

Jesus himself, before beginning an independent ministry of
his own, was probably at first a member of the
Johannine sect. But the story told in the Gospels
about the relations of John and Jesus belongs to
legend. ... The story of the baptism of Jesus by John is
nothing else than the myth of the institution of
Christian baptism.

[NOTE 22:
It was in this character that the story (Mark i,
9-11 and parallels) occupied the first place in Gospel
catechizing. The story was not conceived to show that
Jesus had belonged to John's sect, but to disguise it.
The intention was to show forth the messianic
initiation of Jesus.]

It pretends to found the
complete independence of the Christian scheme of
salvation, in relation to other baptist sects and to
Judaism, on a decree of divine providence. Implied
in the story there is a consciousness of the
independence of Christianity, in regard to Judaism,
which cannot have been acquired before the year 70,
our texts showing signs of having been incessantly
retouched in the course of handing the story on.

[NOTE 23:
The dove in the story is a mythological element
somewhat time-worn. Nevertheless it is not without
significance that the bird of Astarte becomes the
emblem of the Spirit who, in the Gospel of the
Hebrews, is expressly said to be the mother of the
Christ.]

...

In the tradition common to all the Gospels, Jesus is a
wandering preacher, as John the Baptist had been
before him. The two preachers are not represented as
teaching in the manner of contemporary rabbis, but
rather as prophets, and both as prophets of a single
oracle � "the Kingdom of God is at hand" (Matthew
iii, 2; iv, 17). In the Synoptic tradition Jesus is also a
wonder-working exorcist � nothing more natural in
those times

...

It is very remarkable that tradition never represents
Jesus as preaching in large towns, except when he
came to Jerusalem to meet his end. We see him going
from one to another of the townlets and straggling
villages of Galilee and entering their small
synagogues; but there is no evidence that he ever
went to Tiberias, a profane town, ordinary residence
of the Tetrarch, nor to any other of importance. We must conclude
that towns did not provide him with an atmosphere
favourable to his message. The people with whom he
sought contact were fishermen round the Lake of
Gennesaret, poor craftsmen and workers on the land
in his neighbourhood. The geographical frame of his
ministry did not enclose a large area. Nearly all the
souvenirs, if souvenirs they be, are attached to
Capernaum and the surrounding country.

[unquote]

All the best,

Yuri.

Bernard Muller

August 25, 2003, 01:40 PM

Peter Kirby wrote, in bold:
My comments are unbolded.

Peter, your review of the subject is very thick, based on many scholarly quotes of your choice, and, I must confess, I read but did not study. So I'll comment on your conclusions only.

1. The family of Jesus live somewhere in Galilee, the unspecified native place in Mark.
OK, but all the gospelers agreed this place was called Nazareth (or Nazara Mt4:13, Lk4:16). True, neither Mark or John specified it was the native place of Jesus (but John may have suggested that in Jn1:46).

2. Jesus has a home in Capernaum while an adult.
Yes, but all gospelers thought that was the adopted home of Jesus for his last year (Mk, Mt, Lk and original GJohn.)
A home? I do not think it is said anywhere Jesus had his own house in Capernaum.

3. Jesus joins up with the Nazaraean sect.
I do not agree. We do not know this sect existed in Galilee then. And then which sect? There are two actually mentioned in the gospels & Acts:
Nazorios: Mt2:23,26:71, Mk10:47, Lk18:37,24:19, Jn18:5,7,19:19, Ac2:22,3:6,4:10,22:8,24:5,26:9
Nazarenos: Mk1:24,14:67,16:6, Lk4:34
The Mandeans, which started as eschatological followers of John the Baptist, claimed, through their oldest writings, to have started from Nazorios.
The only occurence of Nazorios in GMark, is from a blind Jew, who is the only one to call Jesus "Son of David", a notion that Mark is dead against (Mk12:35-37). That would reflect an association of Nazorios with (Christian) Jewish Messianist, of which Mark knew.
Mark has Jesus called a Nazarenos more times, likely reflecting this sect was led by someone from Nazareth (James), whose (unintentional) founder was also from Nazareth (Jesus).

4. Jesus is declared the Messiah at some point (whether before or after execution doesn't concern me here).
Yes, and I explained that in my pages, more so HJ-3a and HJ-3b.

5. The followers of Jesus belong to the same group as Jesus and are still called Nazaraeans.
Well, it depends. According to Mark, the earliest gospel, they would be Nazarenos. But Matthew, a Diaspora Jew, it is Nazorios all the way. For Luke the Nazorios (when not copied from GMark) comes only from a certain Messianist Jew with a Greek name (24:19).
In Acts, it's all Nazorios, but Luke intended to have the disciples to look early (Jewish) Christians (Ac2:22,3:6,4:10). Later, Luke used Nazorios (in the mouth of Jesus!) likely to equate Nazorios with 'of Nazareth'. John also standarized on Nazorios (including the sign on the cross!), once again, probably to equate Nazorios with 'of Nazareth' (John also equated 'Messias' with 'Christ'!).
'Nazareth': Mt2:33,21:11, Mk1:9, Lk2:4,2:51, Jn1:45,1:46, Ac10:38
'Nazara': Mt4:13, Lk4:16

6. Jesus Messianists assume that Jesus, as the Davidic Messiah, must have been born in Bethlehem, based on a reading of Micah 5:2 and other scripture.
TRUE

7. The Antiochene church members are called "Christians" by outsiders.
Very likely

8. The Gospel of Mark is written, wherein the author reveals no knowledge of where the family of Jesus lived (except that it is in Galilee), although he knows that Jesus had a home in Capernaum. The author of Mark wasn't aware of or didn't agree with the assumption that Jesus was born in Bethlehem as the Davidic Messiah.
True, but I think 'Nazareth' is mentioned in GMark (1:9) and the home in Capernaum was only for Jesus' last year.

9. The author of Matthew places the original home of Jesus and his parents in Bethlehem, along with the whole star, magi, and massacre legend.
TRUE

10. Misunderstanding the sectarian title 'Jesus the Nazaraean', the Antiochene Christian Matthew has Jesus return from Egypt to Nazareth, fulfilling what the prophets said (thus getting two spurious prophecies for one birth: Bethlehem and Nazareth).
Ya, something like that.

11. Either before or after Matthew, Luke composes his two-volume work, which refers to Jesus "the Nazarene" or "the Nazaraean" seven times, and clearly regards this as the name of a religious group (Acts 24:5).
I already expressed myself on that.

12. The Gospel of John in its main redaction is composed, innocent of the idea that Jesus was born in Bethlehem as the Davidic Messiah, but aware of the tradition spawned by Matthew that "Jesus the Nazaraean" meant "Jesus from Nazareth."
I do not think John was aware of GMatthew. He was certainly aware of Nazorios and yes, try to make it looks as 'of Nazareth'.

13. A scribe adds the infancy narrative of Luke 1:5-2:52 and the Nazareth episode of Luke 4:16-30 (at least), where the legend of Nazareth has grown to the point where it is a full-fledged city with a synagogue set on a hill, none of which matches the archaeological evidence.
Just speculations.
The infancy narrative of GLuke might have predated the rest of GLuke. It is surely generated from the same "school" because his theology/Christology is very much as the rest of the gospel: Pro-feminist, "son of God" no pre-existent, pro-Gentile, acknowledging Jesus Jewish origin. Actually, the first 2 chapters work very well as a preamble to the rest of the gospel and set the tone. And then if the infancy narrative were added later, we would expect to see more harmonization with GMatthew.
Sure, Luke did not know anything first hand about Galilee & Nazareth.
Furthermore, 4:16-30 is only in part about adding to Jesus' legend but a lot more about expressing themes very dear to Luke.

14. Marcion of Sinope surely modifies his copy of Luke, but the copy he modified was untainted by the additions of the mentioned scribe.
Just speculations. Marcion also dropped JB's baptism & the temptation (and many other things!)

15. The Infancy Gospel of James and the apologetics of Justin Martyr are published, showing dependence on the infancy narrative of Luke. The same for later church fathers.
Ya, but there are no conclusion to be drawn from that.

16. The Gospel of Philip, though giving two different etymologies for "the Nazarene" ("he who reveals what is hidden" and "the Truth"), does not think to connect the term with a place called Nazareth.
Ya, but the gospel of Philip comes very late, and 2nd century texts can be very erratic.

17. The original Jews-for-Jesus sect known as the Nazoraeans (now extinct in its pre-Christian form), but more commonly the Ebionites, survives in pockets unto the fourth century when Epiphanius wrote.
True for the Ebionites, but the Nazorios were more into Jewish Christianity. The Ebionites, at least the purest ones, did not see Jesus as Christ, just an ordinary man, who was an apostle/prophet. In other words, I do not see the Ebionites coming from the Nazorios.

Best regards, Bernard

Peter Kirby

August 25, 2003, 06:26 PM

Yuri, thanks for posting that quote from Loisy. It's good to know that others have reached similar conclusions already. Please let me know if you turn up some versional evidence for Acts 10:38 or other relevant passages.

Bernard, thanks for your comments, which were helpful. Perhaps you can add more when you have studied the essay more. In particular, you refer to the idea that the infancy narrative in Luke is a later addition as "just speculations," while my understanding of speculation is that it consists of throwing out an idea without giving a rational explanation of why it is credible. Since I did make a few arguments, and the hypothesis is not an arbitrary one, a discussion of those arguments would be more appropriate than declaring speculation.

I do not believe that the fourth evangelist had read a copy of the Gospel of Matthew. But it is evident to me that redactional material (invented by Matthew) has somehow found its way into the Gospel of John by some path. Another example would be Matthew 26:8-10, the appearance of Christ to women being part of Matthew's rewrite and expansion of Mark's empty tomb bit, as explained here (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/peter_kirby/tomb/dependence.html).

If I understand you correctly, the word "Nazarenos" (Nazarene) referred to a sect founded by James the brother of Jesus, so-called because James was identified as being from Nazareth. Then you suggest that "Nazorios" (Nazaraean) is a separate term for a different sect, disclaimed for Jesus by Mark 10:47 but found in Matthew, Luke, and John. (Outside of Mark, Nazarene is found in the NT only in Luke 4:34, in a passage derived from Mark.) Is that about right?

In your opinion, what was the origin and meaning of the so-called "Nazorios" sect?

best,
Peter Kirby

Toto

August 25, 2003, 07:51 PM

This page was posted here in another thread:

The problem of the Title Nazarene (http://spazioweb.inwind.it/bravo/qumran/english_files/naza-eng.htm)

The author argues that the descriptions of Nazareth in Luke 4:16-30 fit the town of Gamla. He notes that "Judas the Galilean" who led an armed revolt in 7 CE was actually from Gamla, and that "Galilean" was a term that referred generally to a messianic rebel against Roman rule.

In Palestine, at Jesus' time, one who became famous for his Messianic ambition and for having fought against the fiscal policy of the Romans, considering paying the taxes to Caesar a real insult to YHWH was a certain Judas, called "Galilaean", of whom Josephus Flavius speaks often in his writings.

He gave his life in the holy battle against the pagan occupying power in the year 7 A.D., and all his sons took up his fight as their heritage and died in the same struggle: Jakob and Simon, up to the last one, Menahem, the only one who managed to fulfill his father's messianic dream just for a few days, during the great war of the years 66/70: he wore royal garb in Jerusalem after having declared himself the expected Messiah of Israel. His was the same ambition that caused Jesus to be arrested, sentenced and executed by the Romans.

What we should note is that Judas' followers and his sons were called "Galilaeans", just like the members of Jesus' sect ("...'Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean'..." Lk XXII, 59; ".... and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus the Galilaean!?..." Mt XXVI, 69).

Usually the meaning of this term is not explained (or rather, I would say, it is purposely misunderstood); the word "Galilaean" (Galilaeus) for the Romans became a synonym of "messianic rebel". This was probably because the first important riots against Roman rule occurred in the north, in the region of Sepphoris, in the Galilee. So Judas and his zealots were called Galilaeans even if they were not at all from the Galilee but from the Golan, and they lived in (try to guess)... Gamla!!!

Yes: Gamla, precisely the city we are concerned with.

The sect of the Galilaeans was composed mainly of people coming from Gamla. " Yet was there one Judas, a Gaulonite, (1) of a city whose name was Gamla, who, taking with him Sadduc, a Pharisee, became zealous to draw them to a revolt, who both said that this taxation was no better than an introduction to slavery, and exhorted the nation to assert their liberty." (Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book XVIII)

If Jesus' home were actually Gamla, a center of revolutionary fervor, and he went to preach a doctrine of non-violence, Mark 6:1-6 would actually make some sense.

Bernard Muller

August 25, 2003, 08:08 PM

Peter wrote:
Bernard, thanks for your comments, which were helpful. Perhaps you can add more when you have studied the essay more. In particular, you refer to the idea that the infancy narrative in Luke is a later addition as "just speculations," while my understanding of speculation is that it consists of throwing out an idea without giving a rational explanation of why it is credible. Since I did make a few arguments, and the hypothesis is not an arbitrary one, a discussion of those arguments would be more appropriate than declaring speculation.
Ya, I may study your "evidence" later.

Peter wrote:
I do not believe that the fourth evangelist had read a copy of the Gospel of Matthew. But it is evident to me that redactional material (invented by Matthew) has somehow found its way into the Gospel of John by some path. Another example would be Matthew 26:8-10, the appearance of Christ to women being part of Matthew's rewrite and expansion of Mark's empty tomb bit, as explained here.
For GMatthew, according to my study, the two reappearances of Jesus, one to the women, one in Galilee were added later, by two different authors, well into the 2nd century. John wrote Jesus appearing to Mary Magdalene following the coming of GLuke in his community. It is all in my pages, but I will not post them, because you would not read them anyway (and I got enough readers!). I am certain John had GMark to start with, then GLuke, then Acts (along 25 years), but no GMatthew. I will have to check why your argumentation requires GMatthew and what for.

Peter wrote:
If I understand you correctly, the word "Nazarenos" (Nazarene) referred to a sect founded by James the brother of Jesus, so-called because James was identified as being from Nazareth. Then you suggest that "Nazorios" (Nazaraean) is a separate term for a different sect, disclaimed for Jesus by Mark 10:47 but found in Matthew, Luke, and John. (Outside of Mark, Nazarene is found in the NT only in Luke 4:34, in a passage derived from Mark.) Is that about right?
Ya

Peter wrote:
In your opinion, what was the origin and meaning of the so-called "Nazorios" sect?
I am glad you ask my opinion only, because I do not have much for evidence, except what I gave you already. We had a long discussion long ago on that on Crosstalk.
I recall Nazorios is somewhat related to "Watchers" and "branch" from the Hebrew and were likely eschatological Hellenized Jews who could not wait for the Kingdom to arrive. They were very much attracted by JB and message. Then after JB's death, some of those got attracted by Jesus, because of the healing signs, saw him as the replacement for JB and the would-be king. Long story but well explained in my pages (there, I do not make much of ''Nazorios", just activist messianist eschatological "Greek" Jews, the true starters of proto-Christianity). Later, most Jewish Christians who joined in were likely from this group, so the many Nazorios in the gospels, which could not be ignored, even by Gentile gospelers. I am sure Nazorios comes from another word than Nazareth, because of the middle "o".

Best regards, Bernard

Bernard Muller

August 26, 2003, 11:30 AM

Peter Kirby

August 26, 2003, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Bernard Muller
Yes Peter, I should have studied your essay more. But did you even read all my pages (I am not even asking about studying!)? Essentially, you are asking me to do what you never did on my stuff.[/B] If I were in the process of reading and criticizing a particular web page that you wrote, I would not declare a conclusion to be "just speculation" without even attempting to address the arguments advanced for it. That would be the equivalent.

I don't understand why you are so hung up on the fact that I haven't read your whole book-length web site, but it is not flattering to you. I haven't even finished half of the books that I've bought and paid for! I've never had a problem discussing, say, the synoptic problem with Mark Goodacre because I didn't read The Synoptic Problem: A Way through the Maze or some other publication of his. Or with Robert Price, with whom I have had several exchanges, he didn't make a point of the fact that I haven't read all his books or much of his dozens of articles. Two people can carry on a conversation about biblical criticism without each reading everything the other ever published--the conversation should supply the points to be discussed.

best,
Peter Kirby

Bede

August 27, 2003, 08:27 AM

Peter,

You note original Luke doesn't use 'of Nazereth' but Matthew does. Does this mean your thesis is bad for the synotptic hypothesis of Luke using Matt. Has Luke used Nazarene in any pericode where Matthew uses of Nazareth?

Yours

Bede

Bede's Library - faith and reason (http://www.bede.org.uk)

Peter Kirby

August 27, 2003, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by Bede
Peter,

You note original Luke doesn't use 'of Nazereth' but Matthew does. Does this mean your thesis is bad for the synotptic hypothesis of Luke using Matt.

Good question.

We have to be careful about using arguments from contradiction to independence. For example, Luke-Acts doesn't narrate any resurrection appearances in Galilee, while the Gospel of Matthew does describe one. Does this discrepancy point to the non-dependence of the author of Luke on the Gospel of Matthew? Not really. One could suggest that the author of Luke-Acts has suppresed traditions about appearances in Galilee so as to make a smooth narrative of the church's spread from Jerusalem to the ends of the earth.

So we have to consider several possibilities in evaluating the literary relationship of Matthew and Luke, and the Nazareth issue in Luke-Acts (which is primarily bound up with the authenticity of the infancy narrative). If the Lukan infancy narrative is genuine, the author of Luke could have drawn on Matthew, or those few common elements in the infancy narrative could have been supplied by older tradition. But that is not my hypothesis: mine is that Luke-Acts considers Nazarene/Nazaraean to be the name of a sect, not an indication of residence in a certain place. So I would have to consider these possibilities:

1. Luke was unaware of any idea floating around that Jesus lived in a city called Nazareth.
1a. Luke wrote before Matthew. (Matthew may have used Luke then, or may not.)
1b. Luke wrote after Matthew, but in such a place or as such a person as to have never learned much detail about it (or, at any rate, the detail about Nazareth in particular).
2. Luke was aware of an idea that Jesus lived in a city called Nazareth.
2a. Luke didn't dispute the Nazareth tradition but didn't consider the hometown of Jesus to be an important idea, nor the only meaning of Nazaraean. Luke would then be only an unwitting witness to the true meaning of Nazaraean.
2b. Luke had heard about it, came to believe the idea to be unfounded during the course of his own investigations, and scrupulously avoided referring to Jesus as being "from Nazareth" in his work.

If (1) is true, then Luke could not have made the extensive first-hand use of the Gospel of Matthew as posited by Farrer and the 3SH, although it is conceivable (under 1b) that Matthew contaminated the oral tradition in just a few ways picked up in GLuke (as I suspect for GJohn), but not including the Nazareth factoid.

If (2) is true, then Luke could have made extensive first-hand use of the Gospel of Matthew, but of course it wouldn't be proven on the weight of the Nazareth datum.

I don't like hypothesis 2a much. If the Farrer hypothesis or 3SH is true, then I would be pushed into position 2b. If Farrer/3SH is founded only on the anti-Markan agreements, then 1a would be viable, under the less popular hypothesis that Matthew used Luke. If the 2SH stands strong (neither Matthew had Luke before him nor Luke had Matthew before him--but both had Mark), then 1a or 1b would be plausible (and 2a or 2b would also be possible if Luke heard of Matthew's idea indirectly).

Since I am impressed by GentDave's statistical study of the synoptic problem, 2b combined with Farrer/3SH attracts me the most, followed by 1a (combined with 2SH or Matthean posteriority) and then 1b (combined with 2SH).

As for whether the infancy narrative of Luke (done by an interpolator in my view) used a copy of the Gospel of Matthew, I leave the question open. The various ways in which other second century or later scribes expand the stories about Jesus' youth in the infancy gospels doesn't suggest that later dependent accounts would be the kind of slight modification or abridgement often found, say, in Luke's use of Mark--and we don't have a frame of reference for the way that the interpolator uses his sources, as we do for Luke's use of Mark. (For example, Justin sets the birth of Jesus in a cave, while the Infancy Gospels of Matthew and Thomas add tons of material not found in either Matthew or Luke, their sources, and what material is repeated is refracted and embellished.) I would say that the infancy narrative in GLuke had to have come after GMatthew because it perpetuates the "urban legend" that Jesus the Nazaraean meant Jesus from Nazareth, the one put in circulation by the author of Matthew.

Has Luke used Nazarene in any pericode where Matthew uses of Nazareth?[/B]

The answer is 'no'. Here are the verses with the Nazareth/Nazaraean/Nazarene references in Matthew or Luke, along with the parallel in the other if any.

==

Matthew 2:23
and came and dwelt in a town called Nazareth; so that that should be fulfilled which was spoken through the prophets, He shall be called a Nazaraean.

Luke: no parallel.

==

Matthew 4:13
and having left Nazareth, he went and dwelt at Capernaum, which is on the sea-side in the borders of Zabulon and Nepthalim,

Luke: no parallel.

==

Matthew 21:11
And the crowds said, This is Jesus the prophet who is from Nazareth of Galilee.

Luke: no parallel.

==

Matthew 26:71
And when he had gone out into the entrance, another [maid] saw him, and says to those there, This [man] also was with Jesus the Nazaraean.

Luke 22
56 And a certain maid, having seen him sitting by the light, and having fixed her eyes upon him, said, And this [man] was with him.

Mark 14
67 and seeing Peter warming himself, having looked at him, says, And *thou* wast with the Nazarene, Jesus.

==

Luke 1:26
But in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent of God to a city of Galilee, of which [the] name [was] Nazareth,

Interpolation?

==

Luke 2:4
and Joseph also went up from Galilee out of the city Nazareth to Judaea, to David's city, the which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David,

Interpolation?

==

Luke 2:39
And when they had completed all things according to the law of [the] Lord, they returned to Galilee to their own city Nazareth.

Interpolation?

==

Luke 2:51
And he went down with them and came to Nazareth, and he was in subjection to them. And his mother kept all these things in her heart.

Interpolation?

==

Luke 4:16
And he came to Nazareth, where he was brought up; and he entered, according to his custom, into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up to read.

Interpolation?

==

Luke 4:34
saying, Eh! what have we to do with thee, Jesus, Nazarene? hast thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy [One] of God.

Matthew: no parallel.

Mark 1:24. saying, Eh! what have we to do with thee, Jesus, Nazarene? Art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the holy one of God.

==

Luke 18:37-38
And they told him that Jesus the Nazaraean was passing by. And he cried, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!

Matthew 20:30. And behold, two blind men sitting by the roadside, when they heard that Jesus was passing by, cried out, "Have mercy on us, Son of David!"

Mark 10:47
And having heard that it was Jesus the Nazaraean, he began to cry out and to say, O Son of David, Jesus, have mercy on me.

==

Luke 24:19
And he said to them, What things? And they said to him, The things concerning Jesus the Nazaraean, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people;

Matthew: no parallel.

==

I think that's all of them--except for the ones in Mark, John, and Acts.

best,
Peter Kirby

Bernard Muller

August 27, 2003, 11:01 AM

Peter wrote:
I don't understand why you are so hung up on the fact that I haven't read your whole book-length web site, but it is not flattering to you. I haven't even finished half of the books that I've bought and paid for! I've never had a problem discussing, say, the synoptic problem with Mark Goodacre because I didn't read The Synoptic Problem: A Way through the Maze or some other publication of his. Or with Robert Price, with whom I have had several exchanges, he didn't make a point of the fact that I haven't read all his books or much of his dozens of articles. Two people can carry on a conversation about biblical criticism without each reading everything the other ever published--the conversation should supply the points to be discussed.

I knew I was going to attract a reply like that, sooner or later!

You did not finish your pricy books: they do not seem to be so interesting (but you shun my free of charge website: go figure!). And what do you know after all that?
Your views are constantly shifting and ultra fluid and confused. You embrace a new theory at any time and juggle with different hypotheses in one go.
And in your answer to Bede, you totally ignore what I wrote to you on that same thread, some of which I fully documented in my pages.
Next time, I will not bother to answer your theory of the month (but I may criticize them).

Best regards, Bernard

Peter Kirby

August 27, 2003, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by Bernard Muller
I knew I was going to attract a reply like that, sooner or later!

You did not finish your pricy books: they do not seem to be so interesting (but you shun my free of charge website: go figure!). And what do you know after all that?
Your views are constantly shifting and ultra fluid and confused. You embrace a new theory at any time and juggle with different hypotheses in one go.
And in your answer to Bede, you totally ignore what I wrote to you on that same thread, some of which I fully documented in my pages.
Next time, I will not bother to answer your theory of the month (but I may criticize them). This is all very unbecoming of you, just for the fact that I haven't completed reading (note: not shunned) your web site.

best,
Peter Kirby

Berenger Sauniere

August 27, 2003, 11:54 PM

Be fooled not by a mythographer's cartography, lest you end up where you need not be. ;)

Bernard Muller

August 28, 2003, 02:00 PM

Berenger Sauniere wrote:
Be fooled not by a mythographer's cartography, lest you end up where you need not be.

For your information, I am not a Christian, but a humanist. I do not like the term Atheist, because I do not want to be put on the spot about disproving a Creator of the Big Bang, or an Intervener in the process of evolution (to explain the still unexplained or still unproven or still debated by Scientists).
If in the very slim chance God exists (in my view), he is certainly not the one described (or implicated) in the OT & NT. Here, he is totally fictituous.
I am against any myths, from any side but certainly not against providing a well documented & precise road map to explain the beginning of Christianity.

Best regards, Bernard

leftfist

August 30, 2003, 12:49 PM

Peter Kirby

August 30, 2003, 01:09 PM

On the one hand, Mandaeanism is evidently a strain of gnosticism (Manda=knowledge and cosmology/language of the Mandaean writings is similar to earlier gnostic literature) that evolved in the early medieval period, with the camouflage of descent from a known revered prophet called John to protect against Muslim (and Christian) predators, thus surviving where others went extinct. On the other hand, it is quite likely that many of the original Nazaraeans held John the Baptist in high regard, though whether the founder was John or some unknown Jewish prophet cannot be speculated. I have very few opinions on who the Nazaraeans were except that they were Jewish and existed before Jesus.

best,
Peter Kirby

Bernard Muller

August 30, 2003, 01:23 PM

What connection do you believe the modern Mandaeans or Mandeans have to the Nazarenes or Nazareans? The Mandeans count John the Baptist as their last great prophet. They seem to refer to themselves as Nazarenes. They think Jesus lied and twisted the Baptist's teachings. etc

Ya, you are right on the last part, but antagonism like that could be expected between two competing cults. See John's gospel for the reverse, greatly demeaning JB, but having him glorifying Jesus/Son (Jn1:19-28, 3:26-36)

Connection? There is not enough evidence to say much about that.
I got the Nazorean part from this site:
Encyclopeadia of the Orient (http://i-cias.com/cgi-bin/eo-direct.pl?mandeans.htm)

Here is an extract:
>> The Mandean religion could be pre-Christian, or it could date to 1st or 2nd century CE. It could actually be John the Baptist who founded the sect, or they could be a continuation of the Jewish sect that John the Baptist belonged to (guessed to be the Esseneans).
However, elements of their language indicate that the community is of Jewish origin.
One of the texts of the Mandeans tell about a flight of a group called **'Nasoreans'**, from areas that probably were in today's Jordan, to the Mesopotamian region, in the times of the Jewish wars following the destruction of Jerusalem in year 70 CE. <<

Best regards, Bernard

offa

August 30, 2003, 04:02 PM

The idea that Jesus was born in Bethlehem is based on one chapter in
Matthew and one chapter in Luke. The only place where the word
"Bethlehem" appears in the New Testament, outside of the infancy
narratives of Matthew and Luke, is in John 7:42.

John 7:42. Others said, "He is the Christ." Still others asked, "How
can the Christ come from Galilee? Does not the Scripture say that the
Christ will come from David's family and from Bethlehem, the town
where David lived?"

We could read a little Josephus and get e few answers.

ANT 13.313 As he was saying this, and that in a melancholy mood,
the news came that Antigonas was slain in a place under
ground, which itself was called also Strato's Tower or of
the same name with that Cesarea which is seated at the
sea. This event put the prophet into a great disorder.

Josephus is teaching us the use of copying names for locations. He
tells us that there is more than one Strato's tower. He does not
reveal the location of the Strato's Tower where Antigonas was slain.
What the gullible reader does not perceive is that Josephus has
already practised this art of copying names of locations hundreds
of times.
Take Tyre for instance,

Ant 12-232 But still he made the entrances at the mouth of the
caves so narrow, that no more than one person could enter
them at once. And the reason why he built them after that
manner was a good one; it was for his own preservation,
lest he should be besieged by his brethren, and run the
hazard of being caught by them.

Ant 12-233 Moreover, he built courts of greater magnitude than
ordinary, which he adorned with vastly huge gardens. And
when he brought the place to this state, he named it
Tyre. This place is between Arabia and Judea, beyond the
Jordan, not far from the country of Heshbon.

This Tyre is located somewhere's in the Holy Land. Likewise,
Arabia and Hesbon are pseudo names. This location has caves and
these caves are common on the cliffs in the Qumran area and on the
precipices created by the wady's that empty into the Dead Sea.

Ant 08-050 Moreover, Hiram, king of Tyre, when he had heard
that Solomon succeeded to his father's kingdom, was very
glad of it, for he was a friend of David's. So he sent
ambassadors to him, and saluted him, and congratulated
him on the happy state of his affairs. Upon which Solomon
sent him an epistle, the contents of which here follow: -

The Tyre mentioned above will be the same location as the Tyre that
Hyrcanus built. What happens is that Solomon and king Hiram become
pseudo names for two other kings in an era several hundred years
later. Josephus planted this story about Hiram and Solomon in an
incorrect time frame and the gullible readers bought it. Josephus
is simply writing in the style that he was taught.

Ant 08-055 The copies of these epistles remain at this day, and
are preserved not only in our books, but among the
Tyrians also; insomuch that if anyone would know the
certainty about them, he may desire of the keepers of
public records of Tyre to show him, and he will find what
is there set down to agree with what we have said.

The above is a tip off. Why would Jewish records be kept on the
island of Tyre?

Obviously there are more than one Bethlehem!

Here is another one.

"The problem with this line of interpretation is that the Fourth
Evangelist insists from Chapter 1 onward that Jesus does come form
Nazareth (1:45-56), with all the scandal that causes even future
believers (e.g., Nathanael in 1:46). John's insistence on Nazareth as
the place of Jesus' earthly origins, a code word for the 'flesh' that
the Word becomes, returns with theological force in his Passion
Narrative (18:5,7; 19:19).

A proof that John was written first is a code word for the
'flesh' that the Word becomes, which tells us that Jesus IS
"the Word". He is mentioned by the authors of the other books in the
"New Testament" as "the Word".

thanks, Offa

offa

August 30, 2003, 05:12 PM

Edwin D. Freed writes: "There is no evidence whatsoever anywhere else
for Herod's murder of the children reported by Matthew. ... if he had
committed a deed so dastardly that it caused loud lamentation and
weeping among Jews (Mt. 2.18), it would not have gone unreported by
the Jew Josephus." (The Stories of Jesus' Birth, p. 102) More
important, however, are the facts that the story is a pre-existing
mythical topos for the birth of a king, that the story is intertwined
with the thoroughly implausible guiding star and court intrigue with
three wise men from afar, and that the whole narrative is composed
with an eye to fulfillment of scripture, quoted explicitly in vv. 6,
15, and 18.

Josephus DOES report the "slaughter of the innocent Children"
First, a little background,

"EndNote ANT 1.26">
Josephus here calls Ismael a young child or infant, though he was
about 13 years of age; as Judas calls himself and his brethren young
men, when he was 47, and had two children, Antiq. B. II. ch. 6. sect.
8, and they were of much the same age; as is a damsel of 12 years old
called a little child, Mark 5:39-42, five several times. Herod is also
said by Josephus to be a very young man at 25. See the note on Antiq.
B. XIV. ch. 9. sect 2, and of the War, B. I. ch. 10. And Aristobulus
is styled a very little child at 16 years of age, Antiq. B. XV. ch. 2.
sect. 6, 7. Domitian also is called by him a very young child, when he
went on his German expedition at about 18 years of age, of the War, B.
VII. ch. 4. sect. 2. Samson's wife, and Ruth, when they were widows,
are called children, Antiq. B. V. ch. 8. sect. 6, and ch. 9. sect. 23.

These innocent Children that Herod ordered to be slain were adults.
They were the "Children of GOD" or the "Children of the Father", but,
they were adults and one of the Children that escaped was Joseph. The
mentioned of "two years old or under" was Luke's sly way of telling
us that Jesus was that age.

Antiquities - Book 17
(157) so he caught no fewer than forty of the young men, who had
courage to stay behind when the rest ran away, together with the
authors of this bold action, Judas and Matthias, who thought it an
ignominious thing to retire upon this approach, and led them to the
king.
(158) And when they were come to the king, and he asked them if
they had been so bold as to pull down what he had dedicated to God,
"Yes", said they, "what was contrived we contrived, and what hath been
performed, we performed it; and that with such a virtuous courage as
to become men; for we have given our assistance to those things which
are dedicated to the majesty of God,
(159) and we have provided for what we have learned by hearing
the law; and it ought not to be wondered at, if we esteem those laws
which Moses suggested to him, and were taught him by God, and which
he wrote and left behind him, more worthy of observation than thy
commands. Accordingly we will undergo death and all sorts of
punishments which thou canst inflict upon us, with pleasure, since we
are conscious to ourselves that we shall die, not for any unrighteous
actions, but for our love to religion."
(160) And thus they all said, and their courage was still equal
to their profession, and equal to that with which they readily set
about this undertaking. And when the king had ordered them to be
bound, he sent them to Jericho, and called together the principle men
among the Jews;

The above story is about the innocent children that Herod had
ordered slain.

Antiquities - Book 17
(174) He commanded that all the principal men of the entire
Jewish nation wheresoever they lived, should be called to him.
Accordingly, there where a great number that came, because the whole
nation was called, and all men heard of this call, and death was the
penalty of such as should despise the epistles that were sent to call
them . And now the king was in a wild rage against them all, the
innocent as well as those that had afforded him ground for
accusations;
(175) and when they were come, he ordered them all to be shut up
in the hippodrome, and sent for his sister Salome, and her husband
Alexas, and spoke thus to them: - "I shall die in a little time, so
great are my pains; which death ought to be cheerfully borne, and to
be welcomed by all men; but what principally troubles me is this,
that I shall die without being lamented, and without such mourning as
men usually expect at a king's death."
(176) For that he was not unacquainted with the temper of the
Jews, that his death would be a thing very desirable, and exceedingly
acceptable to them; because during his lifetime they were ready to
revolt from him, and to abuse the donations he had dedicated to God:
(177) that it was therefore their business to resolve to afford
him so alleviation of his great sorrows on this occasion; for that,
if they do not refuse him their consent in what he desires, he shall
have great mourning at his funeral, and such as never any king had
before him; for then the whole nation would mourn from their very
soul, which otherwise would be done in sport and mockery only.
(178) He desired therefore that as soon as they see he hath
given up the ghost, they shall place soldiers around the hippodrome,
while they do not know that he is dead; and that they shall not
declare his death to the multitude till this is done, but they shall
give orders to have those that are in custody shot with their darts;
and that this slaughter of them all will cause that he shall not miss
to rejoice on a double account; that as he is dying, they will make
him secure that his will shall be executed in what he charges them to
do; and that he shall have the honor of memorable mourning at his
funeral.

The above is about the innocent children Herod ordered slain. These
are principle men and the same persons in both paragraphs.

(193) But then Salome and Alexas, before the king's death was
made known, dismissed those that were shut up in the hippodrome, and
told them that the king ordered them to go away to their own lands,
and take care of their own affairs, which was esteemed by the nation
a great benefit;

So, innocent children were ordered slain but they were released after
Herod's death.

The problem with biblical scholars is their verbatim translation
of Scripture. They drink the milk instead of eating the meat.

thanks, Offa

JoeWallack

September 2, 2003, 09:47 AM

JW:
Outside of Polemics the objective Bible scholar does not need to be restrained by the Christian assumption that the Supernatural is possible. If you start with the logical assumption that the Supernatural is not possible then "Mark" contains an Apology which supports "Nazareth" as Jesus' "home":

Mark 6: (NIV)

1 "Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. 2 When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.
3 "Where did this man get these things?" they asked. "What's this wisdom that has been given him, that he even does miracles! Isn't this the carpenter? Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James, Joseph,[1] Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him.
4 Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown, among his relatives and in his own house is a prophet without honor." 5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 And he was amazed at their lack of faith."

If you assume that the Supernatural is not possible then the historical Jesus did not perform miracles anywhere. If original Christianity knew that Nazareth was Jesus' home then when Christians went to Nazareth and asked the natives about Jesus the natives would say that the Jesus of Nazareth didn't do any miracles there. Subsequently "Mark" spun this as a fulfillment of prophecy, the reason Jesus couldn't do many miracles in his hometown was because there was a prophecy which said he wouldn't. Of course it's also possible that the original Christians only thought Nazareth was Jesus' home and received the same answer from the locals, "We don't know what the hell you're talking about."

This Natural explanation that Nazareth never knew a miracle performing Jesus because miracles are impossible also fits in nicely with the big picture of the authorship of the Christian Bible. The Christian Bible had to be written anonymously because it only could have been written by people who didn't know the historical Jesus or anyone who knew him and when subsequent Christianity "interviewed" the actual authors it dismissed them as the actual authors because they didn't know the historical Jesus and once Christianity had eliminated the actual authors as the actual authors only non-authors were left to choose from.

Joseph

PRAY, v.
To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Errors_In_The_Christian_Bible

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/abdulreis/myhomepage/

Bill

September 2, 2003, 10:10 AM

I'm going to just jump into this thread for exactly long enough to make this one post. Then I will have contributed all I'm even partly qualified to say on this subject.

Frank Zindler is among those who argue that it is clear that no town by the name of Nazareth (or anything like that) existed prior to the First Jewish War. Zindler opinies that the town is settled by refugees from Jerusalem. Perhaps those refugees even are Nazarites themselves, or something like that.

There is an old document called The Jewish Life of Christ which was translated into English and published over a century ago by a pair of English atheists. Here is what they wrote about that document, along with footnotes contributed by myself: King Jannaeus [ In his chronological chart for the Maccabean Priest Kings of the Jews, Eisenman places the reign of Alexander Jannaeus as 103 BCE through 76 BCE. Foote and Wheeler claim 106 BCE through 79 BCE, or an equivalent range of years, three years earlier. In either case, the reign of this king clearly covers the year of 90 BCE, when the tale told therein is supposed to have begun. ], in whose reign Jeshu is placed, was a Sadducee. He persecuted the rabbis [ Here, Foote and Wheeler use the term "Rabbi" to refer to Jewish priests prior to the First Jewish War when the Second Temple was still in full operation. In my view (and the view of many others), this usage is improper. Modern rabbinical Judaism was invented by a single Jewish priest who defected over to Rome during the siege of Jerusalem during the First Jewish War (about 70 CE). In return for his defection, he was allowed to establish the first rabbinical school in the Roman capital of Caesarea. It was at about this time that he and his followers began to accumulate the writings for what we now call the Talmud. The earliest portions of the Talmud appear to be records of disputations within the Sanhedrim council back into the reigns of the Maccabean Priest Kings. This defector must have obtained those records in some way, either from the Romans after the fall of Jerusalem or by spiriting them away on his own initiative. ], and Joshua ben Perachiah, the president of the Sanhedrim, fled to Egypt, leaving Simon ben Shetach as his deputy. With respect to this persecution, Rabbi Wise writes:
'The Pharisees being persecuted in the days of Alexander Jannai, the number of Nazarites [ The Catholic Encyclopedia (1911) has a lengthy article on the term "Nazarite" spotted at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10727a.htm on August 28, 2003. ] increased. [ The true import of this sentence is particularly unclear to me. In later times, the Pharisees would be liberal accommodationists who most desired to integrate Jewish society into the Roman hierarchy. Some might draw a parallel to the Reformed Jews of today, as the Pharisees were not known for being particularly devout. If this same situation pertained at the time at issue herein, it would thus be easy to understand why a Sadducee priest-king might choose to persecute Pharisees. There is no mention in the quoted material as to just where the Essenes stood in this regard, but many of them were known to have taken the Nazarite vows. Could it be that this quoted text is describing the growth of the Essene sect at the expense of the Pharisees? ] Three hundred of them came at one time to Jerusalem to fulfill their vows. Simon (ben Shetach) was enabled so to construe the law that it was unnecessary for one half of them to make the prescribed sacrifices.'
Can these Nazarites have been the Nazarenes referred to in the Jeshu story? Such a confusion of names is more than possible, for the author of our first gospel [ This reference is clearly to the Gospel of Matthew, which appears first in the New Testament. However, the dating of that gospel story is most likely late, for several reasons. First, the writings of Papias (circa 65 CE through 140 CE) seem to describe how the Gospel of Matthew was composed, and if Papias truly did participate in its composition as he claims, then that would date the Gospel of Matthew to a time during the career of Papias. Second, as is being discussed at this point in the quoted text, the author of this first gospel apparently confused the Jewish Nazarites with the inhabitants of a town called Nazareth. This confusion is made far more plausible if the dating of this gospel is after the founding of just such a town, which even Zindler speculates could have occurred as a side effect of the First Jewish War (66 CE through 70 CE or so; Masada fell about 73 CE). It is also interesting to note that the Catholic Encyclopedia (1911) speculates that the writings of Papias might have been "lost" by Eusebius due to their unorthodox (or even heretical?) content. See the Papias article spotted at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11457c.htm on August 28, 2003. ] has actually perpetrated it. He sends Jesus home to Nazareth to fulfill the prophecy 'He shall be called a Nazarene.' [ Matthew 2:23. ] But the only prophecy of that kind in the Old Testament is the angel's prediction of the birth of Sampson [ Judges Chapter 13. ], who was neither to shave nor to drink strong drink, but to be 'a Nazarite from the womb.' The Nazarite was an ancient teetotaler, and had no connection whatever with Nazareth. Hopefully, this will contribute to decyphering this whole Nazarite/Nazareth thing.

== Bill

Bill

September 3, 2003, 10:55 PM

Gee, I didn't mean to cut this thread off entirely.

Is everybody clear now that the "Nazarite" Jews were merely those male Jews who took special vows of religious observance? (Much like Christian monks do; and in fact, it would appear to me that the Nazarite legacy can be found in the Franciscan and Dominican monks of Roman Catholocism.)

== Bill