What gives an Atheist comfort?

[MichieC]

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum to ask this.

I've been trying to get acquainted a bit before just hopping in.

Anyway, this has been on my mind quite a bit lately & I have been wanting to ask- What gives an Atheist comfort?

Most people of Faith have God to help them with the comfort issue.

Prayer, fellowship, the belief that this life is not all there is.

I think part of the reason that I find comfort in my faith is that it gives me hope of more.

Also, when I see senseless acts of cruelty or other circumstances of life or death, the thought of more than this life helps.

I have to admit, there are times I see atheist/agnostics beliefs or lack of them as almost a freedom type of thing.

Not shackled by anything but your own thoughts & actions, there is a certain attraction.

But I can't imagine not believing in God & that is where I guess I find my comfort.

What is it like for an atheist?

Thank's,
Michie

[Postcard73]

I think this is a great question, and I'm looking forward to reading the answers...

I have a hard time finding comfort in life, but that was true even when I was a xian. As an atheist, probably the greatest source of comfort I find comes from the simple fact that there is no god, and thus, I don't have to blame him when things go wrong or thank him when things go right. My life is mine to live: if something goes well for me, then I can find comfort in the knowledge that my actions played a huge part in my success. I don't have to work my butt off and then give god all the credit. Similarly, when things go wrong, I simply react. I don't worry that I'm being punished, or spend time praying when I should be trying to help myself. Basically, I find comfort in the knowledge that everything I deal with on a daily basis, good or bad, is entirely affected by me and my decisions, not some superstitious, vindictive uber-being...

My life is mine to live. I find that extremely comforting. I should note that the freeing feeling which comes with atheism was definitely there with me...

[southernhybrid]

Perhaps you can explain for me, just how does believing in an invisible, supernatural interventionist entity that seems to have no respect for his creation and who has given you no evidence for his existence give you any comfort at all? How does an entity that has followers that use excuses for him like, we can't understand his wisdom, or he works in mysterious ways give you any type of comfort at all? I'm not suggesting you answer this here. It's just something for you to think about.

I get comfort from the same place that all humans do. I get comfort from the people that make up my social support system. I get comfort from doing things for myself and working out solutions to problems by myself or with the help of those close to me when needed. I get comfort in knowing that there are no invisible, capricious entities out there that can hurt me or destroy me. If something bad happens, it's either a random event or the result of my own poor decisions.

If I need a substitute for prayer, I can simply sit and enjoy the beauty of the natural world. I find that peaceful and comforting. I have no problem with believing that life is temporary. All the things that we experience are temporary and that doesn't ever take away from the experience. Why should it take away from the experience of living? Does the life of a butterfly lose it's meaning or beauty simply because it's a short one?

[beejay]

Like everyone else, I get comfort from friends and family.

My life has been relatively easy, so I haven't had to make up imaginary friends to give me additional comfort.

[Viti]

I am actually MORE comforted by the thought that when bad things happen it is random, non-conscious nature; not some unfathomable plan or indiscernable will of an invisible deity. No divine punishment, no divine reward, no demons out to get me, it's not a game to see who wins....life just is and I can make the best of it using my own abilities. I dig that.

[Stephen Maturin]

I find monkey-wrenching the existing order eminently comforting.

That and bacon double cheeseburgers, of course.

[Perihelion]

Personally, the comfort I receive is along the lines of the freedom of thought and action which you mentioned. Particularly, what results from this freedom is the understanding that you, as an individual, have the power to understand and change that which upsets you. I was raised religiously, so I understand your point of view. When I came across something uncomfortable (say, poverty), since God always had a great plan for things, my default response was to say "That's unfortunate, but nothing can be done, as this is the way God wants it. Perhaps they'll be happier in the next life." So, in a sense I did receive comfort in the concept of divine justice or an afterlife, but in retrospect this comfort was actually vacuous. Today, I am free to look at a given situation and determine what I feel are its true causes, and then work to remedy them. Are the people in Africa poor because there is insufficient foreign investment flowing into the continent? I am free to arrive at a conclusion such as this, and (were I sufficiently clever) raise investment capital to alleviate this problem by opening a factory there.

Ultimately though, the comfort comes from the realization that neither you, nor anybody else are bounded by unfair and arbitrary constraints. For all practical purposes, I can seek out the answers to *any* question I may have. It may take me a couple minutes to figure it out, or it may take me many years before I understand what's going on -- but the end result comes from my personal dedication and desire to grow. I am no longer constrained by the arbitrary answers of "God works in mysterious ways."

Along those lines, another liberating idea is the realization that both your failings and your triumphs are none but your own. All of my mistakes are not divine justice, but rather shortcomings of my own. I'm free to learn from these mistakes and improve upon myself. In the same vein, none of my successes are owed to divine intervention, which improves self esteem. Both of these concepts go hand-in-hand in the learning process, and the desire to learn defines a large part of who I am. Hence, I take comfort in the knowledge that my learning is limited only by myself.

I also feel that humanity in general benefits from this perspective. Again, no problem is insurmountable. Problems, such as the ever popular terrorism threat, do not actually stem from devils or demons or divine vengeance. They are the result of political/social/economic issues, which we as a global community are free to correct. Furthermore, with philosophy and the scientific method we are able to delve into the nature of the universe, gaining understanding which is again not limited by some set of arbitrary divine behaviors. We may use these discoveries to improve the lives of everyone.

In summary, I actually find my life as an atheist immensely more comforting than my life when I was religious.

[King Rat]

Comfort shmumfort.

Comfort is another word for complacency. A compassionate thinking person should never be comfortable in the face of "senseless acts of cruelty or other circumstances of life or death."

Faith in god's justice is an anaesthetic.

[Barcode]

From those I'm surrounded by -- by learning; being curious and wondering and questioning; from watching Star Trek; by assisting others where it is feasible to do so; by being a caring, loving partner to my girlfriend and encouraging her to explore the world around her as well as being the best she can be in all things; by being a sister, daughter, friend and learning from my failings when conflicts arise; from a beautiful piece of artwork; from a novel that touches me almost as if I'd written the words myself; from my interests in astronomy and philosophy which lead onto bigger questions that keep my brain cells functioning; by being accountable to myself and taking ultimate responsibility for my own actions; from a large tub of mint choc'n'chip ice cream; from knowing that the answers to lifes bigger questions don't come pre packaged in any strict belief system, but they can be explored through questioning and not taking anything as being absolute; from waking up snuggled next to my girlfriend on weekends; from knowing that there will always be something new to discover or learn about the world I find myself inhabiting.

In other words, I derive comfort from many of the same things you most likely do -- I just have no psychological compulsion to attribute such feelings to a higher power or assume a grand purpose when I see nothing in the world that indicates the existence of such a deity.

[fried beef sandwich]

Hi Michie,

I think the reason why a personal god is so appealing in terms of comfort is that he is billed as a Cosmic Superfriend. All-loving, all-caring, all-knowing, and all-caring, someone who knows your inner fiber of being, and who's there for you 24/7. Whatever humans cannot provide, surely God can... so, as you might expect, in the beginning of my atheist journey, I was terrified of losing my Cosmic Superfriend and having to rely on imperfect humans in an imperfect world to provide my comfort.

Today, I find god to be a poor substitute for the kind words of others, lying on the beach with the sun in my face, playing with my 2 1/2 year old nephew who thinks I'm the greatest person in the entire world, roughhousing with my neighbor's golden retriever, an ice cold beer shared with friends and/or co-workers over an hour-long complaining session, sitting on a couch alone with my thoughts, not thinking anything in particular, but just waiting for that feeling to pass away. Sometimes I take naps.

Did I somehow settle for bologna when I could be eating filet mignon?

No, what changed was my attitude. There is a scene in Fight Club, the one where Edward Norton is getting a chemical burn while they're making soap. He tries to manage his pain by meditation, to retreat into his happy place, but Tyler Durden tells him to embrace the pain, to look at it full in the face. Only then will he be able to move beyond it. "Sooner or later, you are going to die. Know this, but do not fear," he says, or something like that.

Knowing (or believing, if you want to get very technical about it) that this world and this life is everything there is isn't terrifying to me anymore. It's about as terrifying as knowing that Santa Claus wears red, dogs are furry, and airplanes fly.

There is no god, no Cosmic Superfriend. No one can reach the impossibly lofty heights as personified by the Christian god. So why expect it? Or expect others to be striving towards that golden standard? If my friend, after hearing me out, is at a loss for words and doesn't have anything to say, it's OK. At least he was there to listen and share my pain, so I thank him for it. If he said the wrong thing, he said the wrong thing. I point and laugh, make a weird face, or something. I let it slide. But if things go well, of course I'm happy.

There is no afterlife, no Nelson Muntz type of "Ha ha!" that I can pull 1000 years from now when I am in heaven and my asshole freshman year roommate is getting his testicles chewed on by raging demons in hell for all the shit he put me through. So I deal with what I can, grab a beer and sit down with 5 of my friends and we bitch and moan and swap stories. Everyone's got stories. Chances are, they've got a better story than you do.

And then you hash things out, you laugh, you cry, you pound the table (and your tequila) in frustration, and come up with scenarios and possible solutions, you drink 2 liters of water before you sleep, you wake up the next morning, and you deal with things the best you can. If things go poorly, well, I did what I can. Try your best to move on and enjoy the other things in life.

Santa Claus wears red, dogs are furry, and airplanes fly. A lot of shit goes down in this world, but that is the status quo. If I've truly been wronged, I seek to set things right as much as I can. Then after I've done what I can or am willing to do, I've done the best I can. I walk away happy.

I don't expect myself to be more christ-like, and I don't expect others do the same. I find life as an atheist a lot more satisfying because I can let what truly doesn't matter truly slide.

A question for you, Michie: Why would the thought of "more to this life" help you when you see senseless acts of cruelty? I can understand how you might feel if you yourself are the victim, but I fail to understand why it might give you comfort if you see a senseless act of cruelty inflicted upon others.

[Heathen Dawn]

To tell you the truth, atheism doesn't give me comfort at all. I was, and would be now, more comforted believing in a god overseeing the well-being of the world, and in life after death. I'm not in any way in love with my atheism.

BUT... for the sake of my intellectual honesty, so as not to let wishful thinking reign, which is in no way a pointer to how things really are, I have to go where the evidence leads. And the evidence leads towards atheism.

[Godless Dave]

The love of family and friends. Pets. The fact that everything in the world appears to have a rational explanation provides comfort for me.

Also, weed.

[joedad]

I received some religious spam from former neighbors who've recently had to deal with a suicide in the family. This particular spam was a take-off of the man facing the bear. In this new case a stranded mountain climber was dangling in the air when a voice from the sky asked if he believed in god. The man said he did and was asked to cut the rope to prove it. So he cut the rope and the rescue party found him dead. The moral was a question something like, " Do you trust god enough to cut your rope?"

Well, firstly I asked them to icksnay with the religious silliness. Secondly I told them I'm always here to help them in any way I can and that if they'd ever like to break their silence on this personal tragedy I'd be willing to help in any way possible.

The god idea gives people closure perhaps, and that closure must be comforting in some way. Me? I don't want closure without resolution, and that's where I get comfort. Atheism has resolved a lot of discomfort that I once had to deal with as a theist. of course, life still has its share of comforts and discomforts that have nothing to do with gods and deities. Without the fog of theism they are much easier for me to face, accept, and manage.

And I think you have to have some kind of alternate and legitimate vision of the human future that doesn't involve personal glorification such as with christian immortality and eschatology.

[Carlos]

Originally posted by MichieC
Prayer, fellowship, the belief that this life is not all there is.

I think part of the reason that I find comfort in my faith is that it gives me hope of more.

It's easier to understand if you view these two together. Atheists believe that this life is all there is. We do things because of the effect they have on this life and not for the promises of the next one. There isn't the sense that this life is somehow unworthy or that we have to perform in order to enjoy the next life (where things are really good). If we felt that way, then we would probably also need the reassurance that you seem to get from belief in God.

That's not to say that atheists see the world through rose-colored glasses. We have problems and pains as well, but I'd submit that some theists need more support because they experience more pain - pain inflicted by their religion. Take the Christian view of people as sinners. We do things that god does not like and we will be punished - unless we are redeemed. Belief in god is not sufficient - we also have to atone. This "need" is something that an atheist never has.

[christ-on-a-stick]

Michie,

Let me ask you this:

How exactly are you comforted by someone who doesn't speak audibly, doesn't touch (hug etc.) you tangibly - in fact doesn't communicate or interact with you directly AT ALL? (not even a phone call or email!) ;)

With all due respect, because I mean this literally and not flippantly, I get more *real* comfort from my beloved dog than I ever did from "God" when I believed fervently he was there.

[Farren]

Spot on COAS. I have to ditto that. There's an extraordinary amount of love to be gotten from people and animals around you. I don't know why people turn to make-believe to get it.

[Godless Dave]

Originally posted by Farren
There's an extraordinary amount of love to be gotten from people and animals around you. I don't know why people turn to make-believe to get it.

Some people are in unfortunate situations where there are no people, or even animals, who love them.

As others have alluded to, atheists don't have to worry about hell or damnation or that we'll be assaulted or tempted by demons or the devil. Fear of the supernatural probably leads to a greater need for comoft in many believers. I find many religions encourage a pessimistic view of humanity - we are all sinners, the world is fallen, evil and wickedness are around every corner. It's like they induce depression and pessimism to make salvation seem more desirable.

[MichieC]

First of all, let me clarify.

I do not get comfort while watching others being subjected to pain. Of course, if it is within your power to assist them & comfort them, you do.

What I mean by comfort in these scenerios is that if you heard of a child that has been beaten to death by a parent or whomever, there is a comfort in thinking that they are happy now & you will see that person again after this life.

I'll respond further later.

I've enjoyed reading the thoughtful replies so far.

Thank you,
Michie

[Heathen Dawn]

Originally posted by MichieC
What I mean by comfort in these scenerios is that if you heard of a child that has been beaten to death by a parent or whomever, there is a comfort in thinking that they are happy now & you will see that person again after this life.


No such comfort. That child is gone forever, like all those who die.

Believe me, this is the hardest issue I have with the naturalistic worldview, and I sympathise with all who reject naturalism because of that predicament. But what on earth can I do about it? Be in denial, as I was for a period? Nature acts on its own terms, not mine.

[Chicken Girl]

Originally posted by joedad
I received some religious spam from former neighbors who've recently had to deal with a suicide in the family. This particular spam was a take-off of the man facing the bear. In this new case a stranded mountain climber was dangling in the air when a voice from the sky asked if he believed in god. The man said he did and was asked to cut the rope to prove it. So he cut the rope and the rescue party found him dead. The moral was a question something like, " Do you trust god enough to cut your rope?"

waitaminnit.

God asked him to cut the rope, he did, and God let him die anyway?

What kind of Mickey Mouse God pulls a stunt like that?

...oh yeah. A non-existent one. :p

[Manta]

Originally posted by southernhybrid
Perhaps you can explain for me, just how does believing in an invisible, supernatural interventionist entity that seems to have no respect for his creation and who has given you no evidence for his existence give you any comfort at all? How does an entity that has followers that use excuses for him like, we can't understand his wisdom, or he works in mysterious ways give you any type of comfort at all? I'm not suggesting you answer this here. It's just something for you to think about.

I get comfort from the same place that all humans do. I get comfort from the people that make up my social support system. I get comfort from doing things for myself and working out solutions to problems by myself or with the help of those close to me when needed. I get comfort in knowing that there are no invisible, capricious entities out there that can hurt me or destroy me. If something bad happens, it's either a random event or the result of my own poor decisions.

If I need a substitute for prayer, I can simply sit and enjoy the beauty of the natural world. I find that peaceful and comforting. I have no problem with believing that life is temporary. All the things that we experience are temporary and that doesn't ever take away from the experience. Why should it take away from the experience of living? Does the life of a butterfly lose it's meaning or beauty simply because it's a short one?

Very well stated - who let you into my head? ;)

My comfort - support - comes from the strength of my friends. 99% of my friends give really great "hug" - and most of the times when I NEED it (which are few & far between), they give without unnecessary words.

I've taken to the recent philisophy (however flippant) "Life's too short - eat dessert first". It suits me.

-k

[Albion]

What gives an Atheist comfort?

Nice hot cup of tea and a good book (possibly only works for the British among us, though).

I don't see why people need comfort when something happens like a child dying. There's nothing comforting about a child dying, and to me it seems like cowardice to retreat behind this deity that's apparently going to make it all right, but not until everybody else concerned dies too.

I'm having a lot of trouble keeping out of a thread on another board, where someone was asking for prayers because her grandchild is in critical condition as a result of abuse by his mother and boyfriend. When the child came out of intensive care, the first thing granny said was, "Prayers do work!" and all I could think was, "well, it's a pity nobody was praying when the kid was beaten nearly to death in the first place, then, if that's what it takes to get God to notice what's going on." The kid's back in intensive care now, and people are being asked to pray harder. OK, so it gives people the feeling that they're making a difference, and apparently it makes granny feel better about everything, but that kid's still in the ICU, he's still been beaten nearly to death, his siblings are still wondering what on earth is going on, but we all feel better because we've been praying. Sometimes I don't think that feeling better is an appropriate response to a situation. I'd just love to get into that thread and ask a few questions about what God was doing until this bunch started praying, and about how everybody's so sure it's God doing the saving now (presumably because the prayers were to his liking, until the kid went back into the ICU at least, but maybe that's because a couple of liberal Christians said a prayer and upset God) and not the doctors and nurses, but I know what the response will be - wicked atheist, offending everybody, haven't you got any feelings at all, can't you see how important our prayers are, complaints to the board mods about atheists trying to kill little babies, and goodness only knows what else.:banghead:

[Godless Dave]

Originally posted by MichieC
What I mean by comfort in these scenerios is that if you heard of a child that has been beaten to death by a parent or whomever

I don't think I could find any comfort in such a situation.

[Hedwig]

For me, I have two great parents, a younger brother that, though he's an idiot sometimes, is a great friend...and I also have a number of friends, both in my immediate area and far away, that are my emotional support and listen to me and talk me down off the ledge if I ever need it.

On this past Saturday night, I went to a local Japanese restaurant with my parents and two of my friends. One of my friends and I shared a birthday and the other one was my best bud and we all thought it would be cool to go and get the habatchi grill. The friend I shared a birthday with and I exchanged completely Harry Potter themed gifts and I ate sushi while the rest got the grill.

After dinner was over, my best bud and I took this other girl, who had turned 21 the day I turned 25, out to our favorite local tavern for drinks. There we scoped out cute boys, had drinks, and chatted. The girl who had just turned 21 learned what we meant when we said: "But no...that drink really is strong!" but she was fine and drank a glass of water and handled it like a trooper.

We rode back in my bud's new car to my parents house and there we busted out my new Simpsons Clue game (another birthday present) and played two games until 2:30 AM...the 21 year old whooping us both times.

That's my comfort. Just being with my friends and family. Good food, good drinks, good friends and good times. It's all the comfort I need.

[Zora]

I have been an atheist all my life..raised with no religion. I can't understand what is so bad about most Americans' (Europeans, too) lives that they have this need for "comfort" and "something more" or "a better life beyond this one." Certainly, there are people who have terrible situations (abuse, neglect, disease,etc.), but they are not the only ones who think they have it so bad. I'm not real familiar with any Abrahamic religion other than Christianity, but it seems to me an inordinate amount of them think the everyday garbage we all have to deal with is so terrible they hope for a "better life" in heaven. This leads me to believe Christianity is a victim religion, which has spawned a victim society which looks to supernatural solutions (or none at all) instead of REAL solutions. I don't know a single person who can prove God has done a thing for them at all. Comfort comes from within yourself, usually when you stop believing you have it so bad.

[MichieC]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I get the impression most of you think that a Christian is nothing but a non-thinking puppet.

Very passive to events going on around them.

Basically retreats.

I think that is a wrong impression.

Christians can be very pro-active to the situations going on around them.

And not just for conversion purposes but because it is the right thing to do.

[Jinto]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I get the impression most of you think that a Christian is nothing but a non-thinking puppet.

Actually, most of us are just stumped as to how it is possible for someone to honestly believe Christianity to be true. And then we get some person who asks where we get comfort, and it gets real easy to believe that all of Christianity is just a game of lets-pretend designed to comfort people.

Then the next fundamentalist comes along and shatters that comforting illusion. :(

Very passive to events going on around them.

Basically retreats.

Many of them are. Those who believe their religion solely because it gives them comfort, yea, these people are running away.

I think that is a wrong impression.

Christians can be very pro-active to the situations going on around them.

And not just for conversion purposes but because it is the right thing to do.

I suspect that the people you describe would be just as happy as atheists, if not more so.

To answer your OP, I am comforted by the fact that the child in question is now dead and won't have to live with the memories of abuse for the rest of eternity.

[braces_for_impact]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I get the impression most of you think that a Christian is nothing but a non-thinking puppet.

This is not true. I do think that some Christians are this way. Heck, there are a lot of people like that come to think of it.

Very passive to events going on around them.


When prayer has been shown time and again to be attributable to selective thinking, what else would you call it but passive? On the other hand, many Christians roll up their sleaves when there's work to be done. But then again, so do many who aren't Christians.


Christians can be very pro-active to the situations going on around them.

And not just for conversion purposes but because it is the right thing to do.

Exactly! Because it's the right thing to do. Yet there are some Christians that believe they corner the market on generous and helpful behavior because they think that God is their source for morality. They ignore positive behavior from the godless or those of other religions.

[ComestibleVenom]

Originally posted by MichieC
But I can't imagine not believing in God & that is where I guess I find my comfort.

What is it like for an atheist?


At first it was like being dangled, slowly spinning and swaying, by a horses hair above an abyss. I felt that sinking, wild feel of free fall, like the thrill of a roller coaster. But this roller coaster was not designed for safety, or for my enjoyment.

I can hold on for dear life, but there's no guarantee that it will continue to hold to the tracks. I can actually learn to enjoy the ride, but there is no guarantee that it will remain fun.

Scary, yea, but once the initial shock passed, the joys of life are unexpectedly similiar to the way they were when I believed that god would make wrong right in the end.

I like the utter absurdity of the world, the utter madness of trying to project our own minds upon the cosmos. There will be no seperation of the sheeps from the goats on the last day. The sheep will blend confusedly with the goats until they are something else altogether indescribable in terms of sheep and goats.

I like the world better now than I did when I believed in God. Somehow, I expect better of the universe than to be so easily captured by man's comforting self-deception.

[jafosei]

What gives an Atheist comfort?

Believe it or not, I am comforted by the knowledge that everything is temporary and contingent.

No matter what is happening to me, I know it will only last for a certain span of time, and it will pass. If a tragedy should befall me, if I or my family should suffer dearly, that harsh pain I will experience will eventually fade. No matter how bad things may get, there will also be good things, after a time.

I know if things get bad, that happens due to circumstances. Bad things don't happen because of some over-arching plan, they just happen. Circumstances change.

When good things happen, I know they'll only last for a while. Friends may move, or die. A wonderful evening has to end. But there will be other good times, there will be other good friends, so I enjoy each one for what it is.

I find that immensely comforting.

When I was a christian, I found the concept of eternal life overwhelming, and the concept of eternal punishment monstrous. I found the idea that all of the horrible tragedies in the world were within God's power to stop, yet He didn't stop them, to be very difficult to justify. I tried to justify them for many of my 30 years, but in the end it was something I couldn't do. I find comfort in the fact that I don't have to justify the world anymore.

[Raydo97]

First of all, let me just say...

I LOVE THIS WEBSITE! DAMN, THIS PLACE IS REFRESHING!!

Now then.

I'd like to respond to the original question about where Atheists find comfort. I have read the replies to this question and I think some very good points have been made about the comfort of friends, family, and even pets. I, too, derive a great deal of comfort in these areas of my life.

However, there is one thing that I have been compelled to do ever since I can remember and it never fails to provide solace. Whenever I move to a new place or go on vacation, one of the first things I do is locate a "point of philosophical being." Most any quiet, secluded spot, with a nice view will do. I then visit this spot often, most of the time alone, but sometimes with a close friend, and I contemplate life.

I have found that stepping back to look at the big picture is a great way to gain perspective on my life and not allow myself to become overwhelmed by my troubles. When I'm on top of a mountain and looking out over a town, I see the people milling about in the rat race and realize that everybody has their own story, with their own trials and tribulations, and that there's nothing new under the sun.

This kind of insight makes me feel like I'm part of something bigger than myself... humanity. We all go through the same kind of experiences. We fall in love, have children, friends, and family. We all have good days and bad, experience the deaths of people we love, deal with assholes at work, etc. So, why should I get all worked up about my daily problems and heartbreaks when, ultimately, I'm no different from anyone else and one day it will all be over. My COMFORT actually comes from the knowledge that everything is temporary and, in the grand scheme of things, meaningless... including my very life.

I have no idea what, if anything, happens to a person after they die. I don't think anyone can say with any degree of certainty that they know. It seems that the worst case scenario would be like dreamless sleep. You cease to exist and your body deteriorates in the ground. But, it won't bother you because you won't be aware of it. After all, you have to have a functioning brain to be aware of what's happening around you.


*Finally, I gotta say this to Hedwig: Your location, "where seldom is heard an intelligent word," about caused me to piss my pants from laughter. No matter how many times I read it, it always makes me laugh. Talk about providing comfort!!

[AmbiguousUbiquity]

Originally posted by Godless Dave
The love of family and friends. Pets. The fact that everything in the world appears to have a rational explanation provides comfort for me.

Also, weed.

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :D

[veniceboy]

I get comfort from my wife, family and friends.
But "comfort" isn't the motivating factor why one is a nonbeliever, reality is. When something tragic occurs you have to deal with it the same way you have to deal with anything real in your life. Reality may bite, but it is preferable to nonsense. The concept of an "afterlife" is not comforting to me. In addition, it is so silly I couldn't possibly pretend to believe it even if it provided comfort.

[pariah]

i dont need that comfort. short, and to the point. i think it would apply to most people here.

[Aravnah Ornan]

Originally posted by MichieC
What I mean by comfort in these scenerios is that if you heard of a child that has been beaten to death by a parent or whomever, there is a comfort in thinking that they are happy now & you will see that person again after this life. Probably that last thing that would comfort me would be to think that G-d could have intervened, but instead let it happen to fulfill some mysterious plan. In fact, when I was a true believer, thoughts like that discomforted me to no end.

[MichieC]

Thank you all for all your thoughtful answers.

It definitely gives one something to think about.

[Opera Nut]

The last paragraph of the novel The Bridge of San Luis Rey:

"Even now," she thought, "Almost no one remembers Estaban and Pepita, but myself. Camila alone remembers her Uncle Pio and her son; this woman, her mother. But soon we shall die and all memory of those five will have left the earth, and we ourselves shall be loved for a while and forgotten. But the love will have been enough; all those impulses of love return to the love that made them. Even memory is not necessary for love. There is a land of the living and a land of the dead and the bridge is love, the only survival, the only meaning."

[RalphyS]

Being raised with the concept of heaven, than turning to a concept of some sort of reincarnation out of hope for an afterlife and now still dealing with the seeming reality of no-afterlife, I have gone to several stages of dealing with this harsh reality.

I don't fear death, because as Raydo already put it it will be painless and I will be unaware, a dreamless sleep.

I haven't been struck with mortality in my immediate family yet, both my parents are still alive and I did not have a real connection with my grandparents. The only time I was really confronted with death was when a younger cousin of mine had killed himself. Ofcourse I was sad and we went to church for his funeral, but all I could think of in church was how pissed I was, this priest was only talking about Jeebus, the bible and stuff and that wasn't what I was there for, I was there to honor my dead cousin, maybe even celebrate the fact that he had been part of my life, best thing was that the dead boy's parents weren't allowed to do communion, because they were divorced.

Do I miss the comfort of 'knowing the deceased is in a better place'? No, as soon as you accept the fact that there is no afterlife, the concept of getting comfort from that is totally gone.
We suffer when our loved ones die, we try to get over the hurt and we move on. Is it better to ask God why did he have to die, knowing that he works in 'mysterious ways' or simply accept the fact that death is inevitable for all of us.

The comfort that theists feel about heaven or whatever simply has become an illusion to atheists. There is no comfort in death, there is no fear either, death just is.

Nowadays it pisses me off whenever I see a tv show or reality news for that matter, when suddenly everyone starts praying when someone is sick, something bad happened and all of a sudden everyone is talking about or to the big sky daddy.

Every time prayer is invoked in times of need I feel like an idiot for not believing, while it's them who don't make sense.

Every time I hear Dubya Bush say "God bless ...", I feel a total disrespect from the leader of the free world for my views, no comfort at all in that, only offense, maybe not meant as such, but taken as such.


The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact than a drunken man is happier than a sober one. George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there. Theologians can persuade themselves of anything. Robert A. Heinlein

[Postcard73]

Originally posted by Albion
Sometimes I don't think that feeling better is an appropriate response to a situation.
Although this strikes me as amazingly obvious, I don't believe I've ever looked at life this way. Thank for what I think is a truly insightful comment...

[JP2]

Godless Dave:

It's like they induce depression and pessimism to make salvation seem more desirable.

I think you hit the nail on the head there, Dave. To quote Neitzsche:

Like a caricature of man - like a miscarriage: he had become a "sinner," he was stuck in a cage, imprisoned among all sorts of terrible concepts. And there he lay, sick, miserable, malevolent against himself: full of hatred against the springs of life, full of suspicion against all that was still strong and happy. In short, a "Christian." Physiologically speaking: in the struggle with beasts to make them sick may be the only means for making them weak. This the church understood: it ruined man - weakened him - but it claimed to have "improved" him. - Twilight of the Idols

Christianity contains within itself a perfect circular mechanism - it makes man sick so that it may offer him the cure. If you are able to fully convince a man that he is debauched, weak and that he is a sinner against the rest of mankind from the point of his conception, then he is more likely to be susceptable to your promise of "salvation". However, once one accepts this salvation and the rest of the message Christianity prescribes, one simply retreats further into self-depreciation - man becomes yet more convinced of his evil nature and of his weakness and as he does so he becomes even more dependent on the salvation offered through Christ. From this point there is no going back: one cannot be so convinced of one's own debauched worthlessness and then expect to function without some hope for redemption. People find it difficult to stray from the flock because after accepting the disease (Christianity's pesimism concerning man-kind) the only cure comes in the form of a 2000 year old man wearing a robe and sandals. Thus the only way to help a Christian from his "cage", as Neitzsche put it, is not to convince him that God doesn't exist or that Jesus never rose from the dead (or any other argument of a metaphysical, empirical or logical nature), but merely to convince him that man-kind is not sick, it is not debauched, and that every one of us is a unique, free-thinking moral agent with the power to help and work for both himself and the rest of man-kind. Once a Christian is "rescued" from his self-depreciation - freed from his disease - all of a sudden the "cure" laid out in Christian theology no longer quite seems so appealing. He may never free himself from theism, but he will be free of his emotional dependence on theism and, as an atheist, I believe that that is the first step towards true redemption. After all, what good is the cure if you no longer have the disease?

Anyway, to return to the original topic, my solace in atheism comes from two essential ideas: freedom and sensuality (in the less exciting non-sexual sense ;)). Freedom exists and is appealing because in a Godless universe I am free to define who I am and what I wish to be. To quote Satre:

If man, as the existentialist conceives him, is indefinable, it is because at first he is nothing. Only afterward will he be something, and he himself will have made what he will be. Thus there is no human nature, since there is no God to conceive it. Not only is man what he conceives himself to be, but he is also only what he wills himself to be after this thrust toward existence.

No longer do I possess a prescribed essence. No longer am I a being "created" in the image of God. No longer can I blame God for my definiciencies or believe that the path towards correcting these definiciencies lies in God's hands alone. I am a being possessing free-will: I create myself, continually defining and redefinining who I am. We human beings often take it for granted that we are the only beings in the known universe - out of that virtually infinite expanse of matter - that possess this power - to define what we, in essense, are.

But we also possess another unique ability, which ties in with what I meant by "sensuality": namely, the ability to comprehend being both in-itself and for-itself. Extend your hand, flex your fingers about and think about all that this action means. Look at your fingers - that's you. Does this seemingly small, meaningless action in itself not inspire awe? That you are able, upon a whim, to extend your being out into the world and to act upon it as you wish? That you exist and that you have power to act directly upon your free-will? Go outside, then, and gaze up at the stars. Consider how frightfully huge the universe is, how much matter there must be and how virtually infinite the expanse of space must actually be. Then extend your hand out in front of your face and flex your fingers again: feel the air upon them and try to grasp exactly what it means to be and what it means to sense the world around you. Consider your part in the incomprehensible span of space and time, then consider that none of this - not you, not the trees, not the universe, not anything - need exist at all. That the odds against you existing at this very moment are incomprehensively large and yet there you are. A being. In the universe. With the power to act as you wish.

Eternal life? Pah. Knowing that I needn't (and mathematically shouldn't) exist at all, and knowing that once day, in the not too distant future, I will never again be able to stand on my balcony with a cigarette, gazing up at the stars behind my extended hand, is all the impetus I need to ensure that I make all that I can from this life: that I make it full and meaningful and that I waste as little time as possible worrying about unobtainable dreams like "God" and "heaven". That I will, if all things go to plan, have lived for but 70 years wedged between two expanses of infinite nothingness is a miracle, when put in those terms, far greater than anything any God could ever offer me. Ah yes, death gives life meaning, an importance. The hope of external life merely dulls us to that which we should hold must dear in this life here and now - that we should be grateful every day for the short time we have received on Earth and it is up to we alone, as free-willed beings, to make what we can of it. Why would we take time to smell the roses if we had an eternity in heaven to do so?

Don't be decedant. Realise that you are here today and that you may not be here tomorrow. Understand this, MichieC, and you'll understand why I'd find far more "comfort" living one day as an atheist than an eternity as a Christian.

[Arkus 02]

I am actually MORE comforted by the thought that when bad things happen it is random, non-conscious nature; not some unfathomable plan or indiscernable will of an invisible deity. No divine punishment, no divine reward, no demons out to get me, it's not a game to see who wins....life just is and I can make the best of it using my own abilities. I dig that.
*cheers*

Plus, as an atheist I dont have to worry about the apocalypse. :cool:

[Daggah]

Am I the only one who finds this to be an inappropriate discussion for sec. lifestyle, a support forum?

[atheist_in_foxhole]

JP2, that was beautiful. :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

[Enlighten Me]

Originally posted by atheist_in_foxhole
JP2, that was beautiful. :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

I'll second that....

[Enlighten Me]

Originally posted by Daggah
Am I the only one who finds this to be an inappropriate discussion for sec. lifestyle, a support forum?


I'm experiencing tremendous support from these posts. Thanks fellow infidels!:)

[Secular Elation]

Nothing really gives me comfort. My only source of comfort is to try and talk positively to myself.

But I must echo others in stating that there is a sense of complacency in knowing that *I* am in control of my life. There is no entity of fate, karma, or a deity that can influence what happens in my life. My life is mine to command. I have complete control over myself and my life. That is satisfying.

[Ape31]

I find in general that athiests are a much more optimistic bunch than Christians and other thiests.

Most of us see the problems of the world as soluble if only we have the intelligence and will to find and implement soutions while Christians tend to see them as necessary manifestations of the evil inherent in humanity - "sin" in other words. Plus of course Christians "know" that the world is going to hell in a handbasket and that is when Jesus will return and save his chosen ones.

Christianity is a horrible worldview in my opinion and one that, in very real ways (the Catholic church's opposition to birth control for instance), gets in the way of making this world a better place.

r.

[Bunny Lover]

Hello,

Breathing.

[Viti]

Originally posted by Daggah
Am I the only one who finds this to be an inappropriate discussion for sec. lifestyle, a support forum? This is no longer only a support forum, the focus is on being secular and living in a theist world. I think fostering understanding and tolerance by answering questions like this is an important part of our life.

I think this is the appropriate forum for this discussion, though others may disagree with me.

LadyShea
Secular Lifestyle Moderator

[openeyes]

I find my thoughts along those expressed by jafosei.

Time dampens most hurts and sadnesses. We humans are a fairly resilient species. We've also used our brains to study how to make the sucky times bearable. Connections with other humans can be comforting, but we have to realize no one person can balm and bandage all the cuts bestowed by our living. Sometimes we may find ourselves quite alone, but then we use our brains to figure out how to remedy that situation if we're not happy and try to find the positives until we can change.

For me, there's a comfort in knowing that I'm dealing with reality as best I can, so that I'm giving it my best shot when it comes to problem solving.

[Buddrow_Wilson]

Originally posted by LadyShea
This is no longer only a support forum, the focus is on being secular and living in a theist world. I think fostering understanding and tolerance by answering questions like this is an important part of our life.

I think this is the appropriate forum for this discussion, though others may disagree with me.

LadyShea
Secular Lifestyle Moderator

I had my doubts at first, but I'm happy with the direction the discussion has taken. Good thing I relaxed my normally itchy trigger-finger ;).

[Bright Life]

What I mean by comfort in these scenerios is that if you heard of a child that has been beaten to death by a parent or whomever

Yes, it would be great to know that this hypothetical child had escaped torture--but honestly, none of us should be able to find any comfort in this tragedy. Whether you believe in god or not, these types of things are a result of society's inaction. People just like you and me see the signs of abuse all the time and ignore it, because it's none of our business.

I personally have scooped up an unattended child in diapers (and only diapers) in a parking lot and called the police. I have reported the sexual abuse of a child to the police, the very hour it happened--when it was perpetrated by a VERY close relative.

I'm straying here, but I just wanted to give you a more accurate view of how I "deal."

I don't look for comfort. I look for a cure.

[Primordial Groove]

What gives an Atheist comfort?

Masturbation. ;)

[MichieC]

I think most of us look for a cure.

I've done some of the very things you speak of concerning reporting child abuse.

The comfort I am referring to is the comfort of knowing that there is something better after this life.

As far as the last two posts....

ROTFLOL!:D

[Autonemesis]

Originally posted by MichieC
Most people of Faith have God to help them with the comfort issue.

Of course they do not. They just think they do. :p

Prayer, fellowship, the belief that this life is not all there is.

Where's the comfort in that?

I think part of the reason that I find comfort in my faith is that it gives me hope of more.

More what?

Also, when I see senseless acts of cruelty or other circumstances of life or death, the thought of more than this life helps.

How?

I have to admit, there are times I see atheist/agnostics beliefs or lack of them as almost a freedom type of thing.

Not shackled by anything but your own thoughts & actions, there is a certain attraction.

But I can't imagine not believing in God & that is where I guess I find my comfort.

Well, you were doing quite well in figuring out where an atheist gets comfort, right up until you veered off into the epistemological ravine... Back up and proceed a bit further in thinking about the first two sentences I just quoted.

[Bright Life]

The comfort I am referring to is the comfort of knowing that there is something better after this life.

I guess I really don't need it, honestly. I'm not saying that you are less of a person or stupid or anything of that sort because you do.

Perhaps you are clinging to religion as a safety net, if you will. This, however, is a bit of a circular argument. Let me attempt to explain what I mean...

Bad Thing X happens to me. I am naturally miserable about it. I may cry and carry on, but then I move on. I don't feel the need to explain why it happened. I don't feel the need to rationalize that Bad Thing X doesn't really matter, because things will be okay at some time in the future (the afterlife thing). Bad Things A-Z happen all the time. It is the way of things (this is assuming The Bad Thing in question is something I can't change, like taxes, for instance:p).

Keep in mind, this is not an attack, just what I think about why "comfort" is an issue.

Bad Thing X happens to you. You are naturally miserable about it. You may cry and carry on. You may ask God "why?" Why does he make his children suffer? Why do you let evil attack the innocent? Then you get into the whole "mysterious ways" thing. And then...then we get to the loving god that, although he can change things, doesn't, because it is all part of his "grand plan" that you, as his "child" are too insignificantly small to understand. But be comforted...This all-knowing being loves you, and you will understand all when you join him in heaven.

I hope that doesn't sound sarcastic, as it wasn't meant to be. Do you understand what I mean about the "comfort" thing being a circular argument?

[Will I Am]

What gives an Atheist comfort?


It comforts me to know that I am not (like most people, according to the majority of Christian sects (for example) destined to spend eternity in eternal suffering.

Think about that.

Isn’t that enough?

(According to most interpretations, only about 10% of people are destined for Heaven. The rest are Hell-bound).

It comforts me to know that I am not a forcibly subservient entity, a mere plaything of a cruel and sadistic Overmind that has intentionally generated unspeakable suffering… as part of some Ineffable Plan that can’t be questioned.

It comforts me to know that all the evils that have been committed in religion’s name have nothing to do with me.

It comforts me to know that there are no atheist Crusades or Jihads. There are no atheist terrorist groups. No atheist book-burnings. No atheist Inquisitions. No atheist ever came knocking on my door on a Saturday wanting to know if I’d ever heard the word of Bertrand Russell.

What, come to think of it, comforts, Christians?

[Lel]

With the caveat that I'm more of a non-theist than anything else, and I'm probably destined to become a fundamentalist Christian someday, here's my two cents.

Originally posted by MichieC

Most people of Faith have God to help them with the comfort issue.

It is comforting to believe that there is no capricious deity that wants to send me to eternal torture.

Prayer, fellowship, the belief that this life is not all there is.

It is comforting to believe that we are all in this together, that nobody can point to a deity and go "There it is!" Here I can unite with persons who are not ready to judge me for my beliefs or lack thereof in a deity. I can say that I'll be sending someone positive thoughts and it does not matter that I am not sending prayers.

It is especially comforting to believe that this is all there is, because it provides a great foundation for creating a better world for all and being kindly towards others; this is our one shot to make this world the best it can be.

I think part of the reason that I find comfort in my faith is that it gives me hope of more.

Yes, but it's all too easy to lapse into complacency and give up this world as depraved when one is looking towards another world. If humanity collectively came to believe that this was our one and only shot at life, should we then act more in morally positive ways?

Also, when I see senseless acts of cruelty or other circumstances of life or death, the thought of more than this life helps.

It helps me to think of that as simply random cruelty, having nothing to do with being the result of the creation of a deity.