Christian/Atheist Law Abiding Poll?

[Senlatheil]

Quite awhile ago I heard about a poll that was done (I have no idea when). The nature of the poll was to ask people in jail what their religious affiliation was. This data was compared to the religious affiliation of the general population.

The poll takers then analyzed the %Christians in Jail/%Christian population in the US and compared it to the %Atheists in Jail/%Atheist population in the US and found that there was a higher adjusted % of Christians in Jail compared to Atheists. The conclusion the poll takers made, as I heard it, was that Atheists were more law abiding, and an extension of that conclusion was that Atheists were more moral than Christians.

I am looking for the results of this poll. Has anyone else heard of it and can point me to a reference?

[The Other Michael]

Google turned up a number of pages, and this one (http://www.skepticfiles.org/american/prison.htm) does mention some of the source material.

cheers,
Michael
MF&P Moderator (Maximus)

[Godless Dave]

Maybe atheists are just smart enough not to get caught.

[veniceboy]

I had a discussion with the morality of atheists with a christian friend of mine. He admitted that most of the nonbelievers he knew, including me, were far more "moral" than the theists he knew. He then admitted that Christianity was basically for people who are scoundrels at heart (himself included) who needed the religon to behave "morally". A pretty stunning admission, I thought, yet he still believes in it wholeheartedly.

[Shake]

Of course, the numbers could be skewed by the fact that there are prison conversions (esp. on death row - what a surprise! :rolleyes: ). We've all heard of cases of convicts "finding God" while incarcerated (IMHO, this is an attempt by some to get paroled earlier) and coming out seeking forgiveness from victims and their families.

If a religious program can actually rehabilitate some criminals, then I'm for it. Mind you, I'm not saying that religion can do good for everyone. Also, as I stated above, I'm sure there are folks unscrupulous enough to feign belief if they feel it'll help them get out sooner. But if it can work to turn some ex-cons into productive members of society, then that's great.

[Amen-Moses]

Originally posted by Shake
Of course, the numbers could be skewed by the fact that there are prison conversions (esp. on death row - what a surprise! :rolleyes: ). We've all heard of cases of convicts "finding God" while incarcerated (IMHO, this is an attempt by some to get paroled earlier) and coming out seeking forgiveness from victims and their families.


So all those christians in jail are really lying atheists?

Hmmm. :rolleyes:

Amen-Moses

[Excidius]

So all those christians in jail are really lying atheists?

Hmmm.

Amen-Not necessarily, but it is possible that some are. At least us non-imprisoned atheists are honest enough to admit that. ;)

[scigirl]

Originally posted by Senlatheil
The nature of the poll was to ask people in jail what their religious affiliation was. This data was compared to the religious affiliation of the general population.(snip)
The conclusion the poll takers made, as I heard it, was that Atheists were more law abiding, and an extension of that conclusion was that Atheists were more moral than Christians.
Um, you cannot draw that conclusion from that type of study. At all. All you can say is that people in prison tend to report a higher percentage of religious affiliation than the general population reports. Actually unless they surveyed a sample from both populations in the same manner, you can't even say that.

As already pointed out, there are other factors. People convert in prison cuz they have nothing better to do, and people are trying to "turn their life around" so they can get out earlier.

I personally would be interested in a longitudinal study which followed two groups of people over time - christians and atheists - with a similiar background/education/income/etc - and looked to see if either were predictive for committing, or not commiting crimes.

scigirl

[long winded fool]

I agree with Excidius and scigirl. If I were an atheist sitting in a prison cell and someone in a suit came up to me and asked if I was a Christian, I'd probably say, "Yes sir! A born-again Christian with fine upstanding morals, all right! That's me! Hallelujah, praise the Lord!"

[Keith Russell]

Greetings:

Yeah, if I had actually committed a crime, been caught, and was in prison, what harm is there in a lie, after committing a crime?

I might say I was a Christian now, just to see what would happen.

But, if I was innocent, if I had not committed a crime, why would I want to lie?

I would continue to tell the truth...

K

[truelies]

It would seem that there is no clear answer to this question in regard to the general population of the USA. Muslims would appear to form a very disportionate segment of the inmate population but that could well be related to the fact that the muslim population is largely immigrant or first generation and the social disruptions that come from such a status.
Then to those prison numbers probably contain a large number of Black American converts to islam. Taken as a whole Christian and Secular types seem to end up behind bars in rough proportion to their numbers:

Christians 65% of inmates and 76.5% of the population.
Non-Believers 11% of inmates and 14% of the population.

I would be very curious to see a correlation between intensity of Christian belief and the sort of criminal behaviours that earn a trip to prison and of course the same in regard to intensity of non-belief.

Here is an abstract of a report from the National Criminal Justice Reference Service [NCJRS] which includes statistics on the religious affiliations of US prison inmates.
Here is a summary of an NCJRS abstract re: religious affiliations of US prison inmates.

Summary of :

Questionnaires to 769 male US prison inmates ages 17-75 in 20 prisons in 12 US States.
Whites: 43%
Blacks: 42%
Hispanic: 9%
Christians: 65%, Protestants: 50%
Muslims: 9%
Total Christians and Muslims: 74%
Non-Affiliated: 15% [Non-Affiliated = Undefined, but assumed to be believers not affiliated with a specific denomination.]
Total Christians + Muslims + Non-Affiliated: 89%
Remainder: 11% [Not specified, but most likely to include nonbelievers—atheists and agnostics.]

Reference: NCJRS - National Criminal Justice Reference Service
http://www.ncjrs.org

NCJRS Abstracts Database
http://AbstractsDB.ncjrs.org/conten...ults.asp?page=1



http://www.gc.cuny.edu/studies/key_findings.htm

Christian 159,030,000 76.5%

Muslim 1,104,000 .5%

Atheist 902,000 .4%

Agnostic 991,000 .5%

No Religion 27,496, 000 13.2%

in 2001

[truelies]

It would seem that there is no clear answer to this question in regard to the general population of the USA. Muslims would appear to form a very disportionate segment of the inmate population but that could well be related to the fact that the muslim population is largely immigrant or first generation and the social disruptions that come from such a status.
Then to those prison numbers probably contain a large number of Black American converts to islam. Taken as a whole Christian and Secular types seem to end up behind bars in rough proportion to their numbers:

Christians 65% of inmates and 76.5% of the population.
Non-Believers 11% of inmates and 14% of the population.

I would be very curious to see a correlation between intensity of Christian belief and the sort of criminal behaviours that earn a trip to prison and of course the same in regard to intensity of non-belief.

Here is an abstract of a report from the National Criminal Justice Reference Service [NCJRS] which includes statistics on the religious affiliations of US prison inmates.
Here is a summary of an NCJRS abstract re: religious affiliations of US prison inmates.

Summary of :

Questionnaires to 769 male US prison inmates ages 17-75 in 20 prisons in 12 US States.
Whites: 43%
Blacks: 42%
Hispanic: 9%
Christians: 65%, Protestants: 50%
Muslims: 9%
Total Christians and Muslims: 74%
Non-Affiliated: 15% [Non-Affiliated = Undefined, but assumed to be believers not affiliated with a specific denomination.]
Total Christians + Muslims + Non-Affiliated: 89%
Remainder: 11% [Not specified, but most likely to include nonbelievers—atheists and agnostics.]

Reference: NCJRS - National Criminal Justice Reference Service
http://www.ncjrs.org

NCJRS Abstracts Database
http://AbstractsDB.ncjrs.org/conten...ults.asp?page=1



http://www.gc.cuny.edu/studies/key_findings.htm

Christian 159,030,000 76.5%

Muslim 1,104,000 .5%

Atheist 902,000 .4%

Agnostic 991,000 .5%

No Religion 27,496, 000 13.2%

in 2001

[Alonzo Fyfe]

Actually, I have an objection to this whole line of reasoning.

It is not relevant to how somebody judges ME how other athiests behave. I want to be judged by what I do, not by what some group of people who shares some characteristic with me happens to do on average.

In fact, to judge individuals by their membership in a group, rather than as individuals, is the very definition of bigotry.

It is perfectly legitimate to accuse people who hold a particular ideology of the implications that follow from that ideology. So, being a NAZI or a Communist is certainly somebody who holds an objectionable point of view. But, here, any statistics that NAZIs are more "law abiding" than non-NAZIs would not be relevant. What is relevant is what is entailed by the view.

In addition, many of the wrongs that can be 'credited' to right-wing Christian Zealots are not criminal. It rests in their determination to create and support unjust laws and political/social institutions. The institutions in the past of inquisitions, witch burnings, crusades, religious wars, are all wrongs -- but not wrongs that can be noticed by looking at criminal statistics.

Indeed, many of the victims of religious fundamentalism are people that the fundamentalists put in prison and count as criminals. It's like a common argument that drugs are bad and should be illegal because "Look at the number of people caught using or selling drugs that have prison records."

These types of statistics may have some sociological interest. But they do not have any political or moral significance. And I, for one, would most strongly object to anybody saying that "You are evil and must be oppressed because somebody else who called himself an atheist committed a crime."

[pmurray]

Originally posted by veniceboy
He then admitted that Christianity was basically for people who are scoundrels at heart (himself included) who needed the religon to behave "morally".

Perhaps he doesn't give himself enough credit. Perhaps he isn't really a scoundrel - he only thinks he is because of the line of bull that he belives. And perhaps he would be less of one if he were an infidel - facing up to the world as it really is and his acts as they really are, rather than thinking that everything will be ok provided that he keeps God happy.

[Liberated]

Way too general for me, "in jail."

People can and do go to jail for bullshit reasons, such as marijuana use, their race/ethnicity and/or they are framed, etc.

Many people commit murder, rape, etc and are simply not imprisoned, for a variety of reasons. Does that make a (claiming to be christian) murderer/rapist that is not in prison better than an atheist in prision for 9 months, for selling bongs or possessing marijuana.

Does the religious beliefs of OJ Simpson matter anymore or less than any person(s) in prison?

I don't see every person in prison/or that was in prison as worse than other homo sapiens, nor do I think that their religious beliefs (or lack of) effects their ability/probability to commit felonies and/or be imprisoned.

[tensorproduct]

Originally posted by Alonzo Fyfe
Actually, I have an objection to this whole line of reasoning.

It is not relevant to how somebody judges ME how other athiests behave. I want to be judged by what I do, not by what some group of people who shares some characteristic with me happens to do on average.

In fact, to judge individuals by their membership in a group, rather than as individuals, is the very definition of bigotry.


Well it may not be relevant to your own morality, but it might be relevant to how some people perceive it. AFAIK in the US it's not uncommon for xians to assume that atheists are evil, kitten BBQ-ing satan-worshippers. This is a bigoted opinion which it is important to work against and prove wrong in the light of facts.