Cut off from others

[MichieC]

I opened the thread on where atheist find comfort not too long ago & was really impressed with the well thought out answers.

I feel it gives me a better understanding of where an atheist comes from along those lines.

Sorry for the 20 questions but I feel I need to ask another.

When you discuss your beliefs/lack of belief in a deity, do people tend to cut you off or out of their circle completely?

I know that there are believers that complain of that very thing.

So I was wondering if atheist can experience that type of rejection too.

And if you do, how do you handle it?

Thank's in advance,
Michie

[Gothic_J]

most people I talk to are ok with it, but Im in a liberal town, so they arent that crazy about it .

and yes, that rejection is possible. one generally finds someone who accepts you as you are.

[Foxfire]

I haven't had a huge problem with rejection, since most of my friends are fairly liberal. My girlfriend, on the other hand, is afraid to tell her devout Catholic family about her beliefs because they generally dislike nonbelievers. I suppose it all depends on who you are raised by and socialize with.

[Atheist Crusader]

Most people where I live don't mind at all, at least, no one who I know does. Sometimes they give me a hard time about being an "atheist"; sometimes they are curious about what exactly my belief system is, if it isn't theist in nature. This is mostly just talking about my friends (I'm in high school), I'm not really sure what their parents would/do think, and don't get me started on my family... although no, they don't exclude me either. In general, we are pretty accepting where I live I guess. If you are wondering what denominations/'types' of theists they are, most are Mormon or Protestant, although there are also Catholics around here, most of their indoctrination programs fail. Anyway, hope that answered your question.

[RalphyS]

Basically religion is a non-issue in my neck of the woods. There are no real fundies (or at least non that I'm aware of) and even the good catholics surrounding me hardly ever (really never) discuss their faith and such and therefore my atheism doesn't come up either.

[Postcard73]

Living in the Bible Belt of the United States and in the same state as both Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, I can't go five feet without running into a xian. I usually try not to bring up my atheism unless they bring up religion first. (Don't shove it down my throat, and I won't shove it down yours.) However, I do talk about it with my friends when we go out to eat or drink or whatever. We frequently notice people who are clearly listening to us and are offended by our lack of God, but nobody has ever said anything to us. On a side note, my best friend's wife is a xian with growing agnostic tendencies. She seems to get a bigger kick out of bothering the eavesdroppers than the atheists in our group do...

I have a couple co-workers who are mild fundies (not like the hardcore morons that are getting so much press in Alabama right now). I have discussed my atheism with them, and although I know they think I'm going to hell, they have been pretty cool about it and never condemning. In fact, I'm the only atheist they know, so they ask me a lot of questions about my beliefs. There is no chance they're going to de-convert, but they are very curious about atheism...

I have largely avoided the subject with my family. My mother and one of my aunts are both pretty serious about their xianity. We seem to have adopted a don't ask, don't tell policy, and that is fine with me. My mother is one of the most sincere xians I know, and she would probably worry if she knew my brother and I are both atheists. She doesn't force her religion on us, so nothing would be gained by telling her...

Next spring I will be going to an old friend's wedding. I will be seeing dozens of the fundy people I knew when I was a xian, many of whom I haven't seen in several years. I have already decided to stubbornly stand my ground and defend my atheism, even though it will be a very unpleasant experience. I'll be outnumbered more than 100 to 1, and many of these people will be very condemning and reject everything I say. Still, I owe it to my friend to be there, and I owe it both them and myself to be honest. I also realize that if people have a problem with me, then they have a problem; I don't...

[Asha'man]

If someone is so narrow minded and bigoted that they want to cut me out of their social circle, then it's a social circle that I desperately don't want to be in anyways. It's not my loss, in any form or fashion.

On the other hand, I tend to be careful about revealing my lack of belief to others at work, since jobs are a bit hard to come by right now. At work, I have to be more tolerant of both idiots and bigots, both of which disgust me. :(

[Benny Hill]

I tend to be more aggressive about "filtering" the people I associate with, and tend to cut religious people out of my circle of acquaintances before the issue even comes up.

[ged]

I live in sweden and I have _never_ had any problems of the sort. Well, except once, it had to do with my confirmation (do you say that in english?) I told my parents that I wanted to do it because I believed in it, and not for all the gifts and asked them for more time. My father (who is atheist) didn't care and my mother (who is a believer of some sort, xian I think with some other influences) said no, and that I would be the only relative on my mothers side to refuse.

Hehe, that only made it worse so ofcourse I didn't go through with it. Needless to say, my grandparents forgave me and said that I was a nice kid anyway.

Now in college almost no one is a believer. And I have no people in my circle of friends who are. I'm still fascinated by them though!

I remember in high school when a moslem in my class cried out to the biology teacher with a slightly nervous voice:"Evolution is just an unproved theory, right?"

Well, that's my conditions here up north!
Regards,
Ged

[fried beef sandwich]

Hey MichieC,

To answer your question, I've been cut off by some, and not by others. I find it all depends on who I'm dealing with.

Some believers just don't know how to handle having a friend lose their faith. They get real antsy about not being able to share their latest "praise report" or "answered prayer" because they know you don't believe in god anymore. So they sort of cut you off more out of fear/paralysis/don't know how to behave around you anymore.

I've had to have conversations with several of my friends, to tell them that I'm still the same guy, that if they ask me for advice, I'm still going to do what's best for them and respect their religious convictions. Things are going well with them.

Others have cut me off, but that has only served to teach me that I wasn't very close to them in the first place, that we were just very friendly b/c of our mutual involvement and exposure to each other through church. I don't mind it as much as I used to. The way I see it, those who let religious differences get in the way of true friendship are just being petty and myopic.

It hurts and is pretty infuriating when that sort of thing happens. But the way I see it, it's much better to take the time to find a new, more enlightened friend than to keep those that refuse to be a friend to me.

[catalyst]

I live amid a large number of southern baptists. And I do mean southern. When I express my utter bewilderment over christianity to them, it, at best, causes a lack of understanding. Especially given the fact that no one in my family has, to my knowledge, ever been christian.

There are people at work who will avoid the subject entirely, and avoid me like the plague at company functions. I confess to taking a childish delight in asking these people some of the tougher questions.

[jafosei]

Nobody I know has ever cut me off socially for discussing any of my beliefs. This may be due to the fact that I generally don't discuss my beliefs in detail unless I know the person and feel that such a discussion would be interesting.

I haven't shared my (relatively recent) atheism with my family or most of my friends. I haven't had a good opportunity with my friends, and I'm not intent on pushing things with my family. I'm confident neither group will cut me off when it comes out: my family loves me too much, and my friends are open-minded and intellectual and can handle differences of opinion.

Even when I was christian, I never rejected people based on their position on God's existence. I've known a couple of atheists who were upfront with their beliefs, and a couple of people who I always suspected were atheists but wouldn't say so, and I valued their friendship greatly. I couldn't imagine being close to a person who would reject others based on that aspect of thought.

The people in my former church wouldn't reject me based on my atheism, either. They were also open-minded, intellectual people (for the most part), and they're evangelical. If I talked to them about it, I'm sure I'd have lots of people to get into discussions with. Who knows, it might actually increase my social connection to that particular group.

[Vorkosigan]

LOL. I live in Taiwan. Everyone asks, but nobody cares. People are very tolerant of religious differences here.

Vorkosigan

[catalyst]

Must be nice.

While this is off topic, I would love to have the opportunity to spend considerable time in the Orient. The culture has always fascinated me, and the little bits of time I have spent there were highly enjoyable.

[Heathen Dawn]

Atheism in my country is of necessity open. For men, it's the lack of a yarmulke that discloses one's (most probable) atheism; for women, it's the lack of a leg-covering dress.

And yeah, I've met plenty of fundies, and they too are quite distinctive: black suits and hats. I don't do much with them except regular business (buying, selling).

[Marruk]

It all depends on who you tell, how they will react.

My brother and I have alwayse been atheists, and in highschool a good friend of his who was very religious (mormon) found out he was an atheist and told my brother that they could no longer be friends unless my brother accepted god. That was the end of that relationship.

In college I ended up doing an ad campain for American Atheists (im a graphic design major) and the class asked if I was an atheist and I said yes. Many of them had lots of questions, and one said "but your so nice?". Another tried to deconvert me the next day, they were part of CCC. And an islamic girl started talking to me about religion, and she said how some of the most understanding people she met regarding the middle east were atheists and she wished other groups would take the time to learn about her religion and culture.

So in the end I have had more positive experiences letting people know of my atheism then negetive ones.

[ieyeasu]

It's not as if I walk about with a tattoo on my forehead that says "HEATHEN!".

If someone is serious enough to actually get into a discussion with me about it, they're typically smart enough to have an intelligent conversation about it, and then back off.

Course, I live in a fairly liberal area...

[Trecker]

Originally posted by MichieC
I opened the thread on where atheist find comfort not too long ago & was really impressed with the well thought out answers.

I feel it gives me a better understanding of where an atheist comes from along those lines.

Sorry for the 20 questions but I feel I need to ask another.

When you discuss your beliefs/lack of belief in a deity, do people tend to cut you off or out of their circle completely?

I know that there are believers that complain of that very thing.

So I was wondering if atheist can experience that type of rejection too.

And if you do, how do you handle it?

Thank's in advance,
Michie

Good questions, Michie. For me I do not usually get into discussion of atheistic material unless the person really wants to know and, therefore, would not likely shoot a messenger. More often than not the real issue is that I just think so differently than theists do. It is actually the entire thought process which they are rejecting and to which they are unable to relate. Of course theistic fundamentalists reject atheists socially. However, clear thinking has many implications beyond theistic homage. I believe it is in fact the lifestyle issues which limit my appeal to any form of fundamentalist circles. Of course, having never been all that social to begin with sort of clouds the issue for me. :D I guess I don't really care if I am included in any circle........theists or not.

[Zora]

I was born in liberal/ Catholic dominated Massachusetts. I didn't experience isolation there. We moved to Florida Bible Belt, and I was banned from some kid's homes, allowed "under supervision" in others (I was 10!). Eventually, I was "accepted" but blamed for the transgressions of my friends..which I had nothing to do with!

After marriage, I lived in military communities or large metro areas. I went 25 years without a single person asking me about my religion except for door-to-door religion peddlers.

I am now in the Bible Belt (BIG mistake) and the question comes up repreatedly and persistently. I am not ostracized, but many acquaintances have made it a mission to bring me into the fold with ever-so-overly-solicitous "love"...hugs, pats, etc. Ugh! Others have expressed "pity" (an attempt at control.)

I have nothing (philosophically) in common with the religious, so I kind of distance myself from them. It makes me uncomfortable when they begin discussing religion or thanking God for everything, so I avoid them except on a superficial level. (It is the same way I'd feel if a person advocated racism, antisemitic views, etc. Hard to keep quiet!)

[Harumi]

I lost a friend after telling him I was an atheist (he didn't seem to mind when I was Buddhist before).

At first it was confusing and painful, but now I just don't care. A guy as shallow as that doesn't really deserve my attentions anyways.

And as it is, living in a liberal school like I do, I quickly found tons of new atheist friends to bash fundies with.

[openeyes]

I'm much more open than I used to be, but I'm still a little careful.

I told my family a year ago and I'm still welcome. We just have another topic we dance around. (I'm also liberal and most of them are conservative, so we dance around alot to maintain the peace.)

Since I'm older and established in my career and as a parent (well, the kids aren't fully grown so I'm not out of the woods yet), I'm not so worried anymore about people's reaction. I've had experiences where a co-worker (lower-level) was very cool and difficult to communicate with because of my non-belief or pro-choice stand (I didn't find out the reason until much later from someone else). I was commenting about my lack of support for the Boy Scouts (didn't get to why) to a regular customer only to find he's been a scoutmaster for years (he still comes in). Found the atmosphere a little chilly at a PTA meeting when I questioned the school's involvement with the religious baccalaureate ceremony for the graduates. So it's a mixed bag; most of the time revealing one's non-belief is not a problem but sometimes it is.

Living in a large metro area with a least some liberalism remaining helps I'm sure.

[Godless Dave]

It has not been a problem for me, but while I'm out of the closet I'm not outspoken. All my friends know and none of them care. None of them practice any traditional organized religion and most are nonbelievers. My immediate family doesn't have a problem with it; both of my parents left Christianity before I was born. I don't think anyone in my extended family knows I'm an atheist. It has just never come up.

[JHamblin]

When you discuss your beliefs/lack of belief in a deity, do people tend to cut you off or out of their circle completely?

I have one group of friends that is very religious. Upon finding out that I am atheist they were very curious; I may have been the first atheist they ever met. While I don't mind talking about my beliefs, the part that bugged me was that they started debating with me. I am not well-versed with the refutations of common theist arguments, but some of their "arguments" simply baffled me. One friend claimed that I was "just like him" except that instead of having faith in god, I have faith in science. He's also a young-earth creationist. After several attempts on his part to show me "the error of my ways," ("I don't want you to go to hell," he said) we agreed to drop the subject and not talk about it in the future. Works for me.

JH

[veniceboy]

I live in the liberal S.F. Bay Area, so no one would cut me off b/c of my beliefs. If someone starts preaching (different than conversing) about their religon, I will cut them off.

[Queen of Swords]

Originally posted by MichieC
When you discuss your beliefs/lack of belief in a deity, do people tend to cut you off or out of their circle completely?

I never discuss my lack of belief IRL unless other people bring up the subject, and then it's Custer's Last Stand, with the other people being Custer. :)

The people about whom I care most are of varying beliefs - liberal Christian, Sunni Muslim, lapsed Catholic, agnostic - but with one and only one exception they know about my viewpoint and don't make an effort to change my mind. We often talk about fundamentalists (with the Sunni Muslim, the fundamentalists are the Shi'ites) and I enjoy these discussions.

The exception I mentioned is my dad, who has attempted to persuade me not to be an atheist. Having God on one's side is no substitute for seven years of debate experience on the IIDB. :)

As for rejection, I don't worry that I'll be rejected by my close family or by my friends. Rejection from anyone else doesn't bother me; the only time I would be careful in this regard is if I ended up working for a very religious person. But being rejected by casual acquaintances or hopeful proselytizers because I happened to have made a choice different from theirs? And because I happened to (successfully) defend that choice?

Bring it on, baby! Bring it on!

[Dean Anderson]

Originally posted by MichieC
When you discuss your beliefs/lack of belief in a deity, do people tend to cut you off or out of their circle completely?

I live in England, so I suppose I am lucky in this regard.

Most of my friends are atheist, or at least angostic with atheist tendancies, so this is not a problem most of the time. The one friend I have who is Catholic is very liberal, and we enjoy debating philosophy and morality...

I do work with a couple of Born-Again Christians, and I simply avoid the subject of religion when with these. I think that they know I am an atheist, but they do not bring the subject up either. I think they are conscious of the prevailing opinion in the UK that religion is not a suitable discussion topic in the workplace.

When I used to be a BAC Fundie, I was worried when I lost my faith that I would be ostracised by my friends. Eventually I got up the courage to talk about it with them and to all our great relief it turned out that none of us still believed and we were all just going through the motions with the same fears of rejection if we told how we really felt.

Of course, once we realised we were in the same boat, we all apostated together and left the church that we had been attending.

[openeyes]

so we dance around alot I meant "a lot". (Just got caught up on the spelling error thread. :o )