How can atheism provide meaning to one's life?

[spacer1]

Well?

[Evolutionist]

the mistake here is thinking that there should be one meaning to life. different people have different meanings to their lives, and they have every right to be.

atheism, being simply the lack of belief in a god(s) therefore can't actually itself provide a meaning to life any more than it can provide the answer to cold fusion. it simply doesn't have anything to do with it.

if you think about it, theism, ie belief in a god(s) also doesn't provide a meaning to ones life by itself. it is simply the belief in god(s).

so, the basic answer to the question is no, atheism in and of itself doesn't provide a meaning to life (i also see no reason to think there should be a reason to life).

[spacer1]

Originally posted by Evolutionist:
the mistake here is thinking that there should be one meaning to life
I did not ask how atheism could provide everyone's life with the same meaning, but rather, how it can provide any meaning whatsoever to anybody's life.
if you think about it, theism, ie belief in a god(s) also doesn't provide a meaning to ones life by itself. it is simply the belief in god(s)
Under your very restricted definition of theism, perhaps this is so. However, I think we could encompass the believer's actions under theism also, which are perceived to be within (their respective) God's laws, in an attempt to please said God, so as to attain their respective heavenly afterlives.
if you think about it, theism, ie belief in a god(s) also doesn't provide a meaning to ones life by itself. it is simply the belief in god(s).
If you think about what I have just said above, I obviously disagree.
so, the basic answer to the question is no, atheism in and of itself doesn't provide a meaning to life (i also see no reason to think there should be a reason to life).
If there is, or "should be", no meaning or reason to life, then what motivates you to act and to maintain life?

[Shinobi]

Our lives have whatever meaning we ascribe to it. That's one thing I like about atheism, you prescribe your own meaning rather than make pleasing the inflated ego of a higher power. I'm glad there is no god, because then everything that I want to do in life would be secondary to worship of a god.

[TimeGoddess]

I'm atheist because my belief in god didn't provide meaning in my life. All it provided was empty promises, fake people and weird rituals. The question itself is backwards - does non-belief in santa mean my kids will no longer work toward behaving well? Do it mean they wont get presents anymore?

To answer your question - Can atheism provide meaning in one's life? Yes

Some people act upon their belief in separation of church and state. Some people work toward making the world a better place by educating others that there is something other than theism. For me, I'm feel I'm better able to raise my kids into thinking adults. My children provide meaning in my life. Just being alive provides a reason to live!

[wordsmyth]

How can atheism provide meaning to one's life?


That is a loaded question. Quite simply, it doesn't. Atheism isn't meant to provide a meaning to life. Atheism is not a religion or even a philosophy, but simply a general statement of non-belief in God(s).

A better question would be, "Can an atheist find meaning in life without God(s)?", and the answer is a resounding "yes".

[Godless Wonder]

How can atheism provide meaning to one's life?

It isn't supposed to, and it doesn't pretend to.

If you spend your whole life taking "meaning" (whatever that is) from a religion which in reality turns out to be completely wrong, what was the meaning of your life then?

What do you mean 'meaning of your life' anyway? To whom is it supposed to mean something? To you? Your life is what you make of it.

Are you asking "How does an atheist answer questions like 'Why am I here? What is the purpose of my life? What am I meant to do?'"

Here's how I do it:

Why am I here: No reason in particular.

What is the purpose of my life: Whatever purpose I see fit to give it myself. Do the best I can not to waste the time I have.

What am I meant to do? Who is that would be meaning for me to do something?... nobody. I am not meant to do anything, except what I myself mean to do.

[JaeIsGod]

Nope , if only it was that easy: "Wanne have a meaning in life? Become an atheist!".

If you want to give a meaning to your life , you gotte make it yourself and fight for it. At least as far as I know , if anyone has an easier way feel free to inform me ;)

[Jobar]

This should be in Moral Foundations & Principles, I think.

[wiploc]

Originally posted by spacer1
How can atheism provide meaning to one's life?

You wanna go first? I'm sure if you show how theism can provide meaning to your life, I can do at least that well at showing how atheism provides meaning to mine.
crc

[Alonzo Fyfe]

How can worshipping a fiction provide meaning in one's life?

[Division By Zero]

Originally posted by spacer1
I did not ask how atheism could provide everyone's life with the same meaning, but rather, how it can provide any meaning whatsoever to anybody's life.
Everyone's already answered this question. So here's my question to you: Why do you ask such a ridiculous question? Why do you think atheism in itself is supposed to provide meaning? How can a person's refusal to eat condensed soup help that person maintain a well-balanced diet?


Under your very restricted definition of theism, perhaps this is so. However, I think we could encompass the believer's actions under theism also, which are perceived to be within (their respective) God's laws, in an attempt to please said God, so as to attain their respective heavenly afterlives.
I would think that adding specifics to a definition makes it more restrictive, not less.

Why is the only acceptable definition of theist "one who believes in a god AND a heaven that is entered by behaving in a way that pleases said god?"

You think theism is defined partly by the theist's behavior. Do you actually think atheism also implies a certain pattern of behavior?


If there is, or "should be", no meaning or reason to life, then what motivates you to act and to maintain life?
There is no over-arching cosmic purpose to life. We are not some experiment created to be observed and poked by a magic man in the sky. We simply exist. Why should that cause me to treat my life with indifference or disdain?

[scigirl]

The satisfaction of being right! :)

scigirl

[spacer1]

Originally posted by Godless Wonder:
What do you mean 'meaning of your life' anyway?
I mean something similar to this definition (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=meaning&r=67) of "meaning" from Dictionary.com:

"To design, intend, or destine for a certain purpose or end: a building that was meant for storage; a student who was meant to be a scientist."
Are you asking "How does an atheist answer questions like 'Why am I here? What is the purpose of my life? What am I meant to do?'"
Yes.
Here's how I do it:

Why am I here: No reason in particular.

What is the purpose of my life: Whatever purpose I see fit to give it myself. Do the best I can not to waste the time I have.
What difference does it make if you waste the time you have if there is no ultimate purpose to your life anyway?
What am I meant to do? Who is that would be meaning for me to do something?... nobody. I am not meant to do anything, except what I myself mean to do.
If you are "not meant to do anything", then what motivates you to do anything?

[spacer1]

Originally posted by wiploc:
You wanna go first? I'm sure if you show how theism can provide meaning to your life, I can do at least that well at showing how atheism provides meaning to mine.
I'm afraid I can't since I'm an atheist myself.

[spacer1]

Originally posted by Alonzo Fyfe:
How can worshipping a fiction provide meaning in one's life?
Well, if that fiction provides a desire to maintain life into the future, it could be argued to be more beneficial than a truth which does not.

[PTT]

IF life is designed then whatever it does best should be its raison d'etre, unless we assume that the designer is a buffoon. The one thing that life does better than anything else is procreate. Therefore, from the theist POV, the meaning of life is sex.

Assuming the atheist (i.e. my own) POV, however, your question assumes that there needs to be a meaning to life. Life may not have a meaning but, if it does, sex is as good as any.

So, no matter what you believe, sex is a good reason to carry on. :D

[spacer1]

Originally posted by Division By Zero:
So here's my question to you: Why do you ask such a ridiculous question? Why do you think atheism in itself is supposed to provide meaning?
I don't believe that atheism is supposed to provide meaning, but given that theism does provide meaning, and given that atheism is the rejection of theism, seems to lead to atheism being the rejection of a meaning. Given that theism provides a goal, a perceived end purpose, and an ultimate reward seems more likely to promote life than atheism's lack of these meanings to life.

I am not, however, speaking here of whatever doctrines and behaviours any certain religion encourages or discourages, but rather, of the psychological benefits of theism as opposed to atheism.
How can a person's refusal to eat condensed soup help that person maintain a well-balanced diet?
This is a good point, regardless of whether you're speaking of condensed soup or bananas. ;) However, I wouldn't regard one's metaphysical beliefs only as some additional aspect of one's psychology, but rather as the underlying structure of that psychology. It defines the boundaries of which beliefs one will accept or reject.
I would think that adding specifics to a definition makes it more restrictive, not less.
I think you're just twisting my words here. What I meant by "restrictive" was that the portrayed definition of theism was of a belief in God as just some expendable idea which has no effect on one's mindset and subsequent actions, which I don't believe is true.
Why is the only acceptable definition of theist "one who believes in a god AND a heaven that is entered by behaving in a way that pleases said god?"
I will not pretend to be knowledgable of many religions, but the above seem to be general features of those religions that come to my mind.
You think theism is defined partly by the theist's behavior. Do you actually think atheism also implies a certain pattern of behavior?
Yes, I do.
There is no over-arching cosmic purpose to life. We are not some experiment created to be observed and poked by a magic man in the sky. We simply exist. Why should that cause me to treat my life with indifference or disdain?
I don't think it should cause you to treat your life with disdain, but nor should it cause you to treat you life with enthusiasm. Indifference seems to be the most logical attitude for an atheist, since it doesn't really make a difference whether we exist or not.

[spacer1]

Originally posted by scigirl:
The satisfaction of being right !:)
This is a good example of one of the "certain patterns of behaviour" that I suggested were common among atheists in my last response to Division By Zero.

[spacer1]

Originally posted by PTT:
Life may not have a meaning but, if it does, sex is as good as any.
If I was getting sex I probably wouldn't be here having this discussion. I might even believe that there was a god. :D

[Godless Wonder]

Originally posted by spacer1
I mean something similar to this definition (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=meaning&r=67) of "meaning" from Dictionary.com:

"To design, intend, or destine for a certain purpose or end: a building that was meant for storage; a student who was meant to be a scientist."

So "meaning of your life", to you, implies some entity with some intention, who has created you for the purpose of carrying out some mission? If that is what you think, then you have no business even asking the questions you're asking, as the answer is obvious: There can be no such meaning for an atheist, and the atheist is perfectly fine with that.

What difference does it make if you waste the time you have if there is no ultimate purpose to your life anyway?

It make no difference, except to myself, and to the people I interact with. There is no "grand scheme of things" external to the world of humans in which it makes any difference. By the nature of your questions, I am beginning to suspect you are a troll. You shouldn't need to ask these questions, the answers are obvious to anyone who thinks about them for half a minute.

If you are "not meant to do anything", then what motivates you to do anything?

Oh gee, you're right. I'm just going to go lie down now and wait for death. </sarcasm>

Do you really need someone to tell you what to do so badly that you cannot imagine that there are people who have no such need?

If you dig deep enough, the real answer to why anyone does anything is this: Physics. Nothing more. Doesn't help, does it? Tough. The only meaning anyone's life can ever have the meaning they themselves assign to it. Some people choose, (or have forced upon them when they are too young to know better) to assign a meaning iinvolving the concept of a deity who hands out meanings to people but doesn't tell them what that meaning is, so they search for a meaning until they find something which looks vaguely like a meaning and latch on to it. Still, the only meaning their life has to themselves lies within their heads.

You ask a lot of ridiculous questions of which you surely already know the answers. You didn't answer my question. If you spend your whole life taking "meaning" (whatever that is) from a religion which in reality turns out to be completely wrong, what was the meaning of your life then?

[Alonzo Fyfe]

I would like to try a more sincere answer to the original question than I gave before.

When I was 16 years old, sitting in a history class, I wanted my life to have meaning. But I wanted to know, "What is it? Where is it? How do I know it when I find it?"

I have only one life. If that life has any meaning at all, then it seems a prerequisite that this meaning must be found in something real. Meaning simply cannot be found in a fiction.

Those who turn to religion because they want their life to have meaning, ultimately give up much of an opportunity for it. The meaning that they think they have found does not exist. The meaning that does exist, they cannot find (unless they stumble across it accidently).

Some of the tragedy that I see in the actions of Judge Moore and those who seek to put plaques such as "In God We Trust" in public buildings and public schools. Because God does not exist, their actions are a tragic waste -- a sacrifice that could have gone to actually making the world a better place than what it would have otherwise been. They think their lives, their actions, have meaning; it has none.

And the tragedy is compounded, because at the same time they waste their lives, they entise others to do the same. They lead a meaningless existence and entice others into the same sacrifice.

But the next question is: Can the atheist do better?

Better than living a lie -- for sure. They can live a life of truth.

"Meaning" actually has two meanings -- just as the word 'value' does. In one sense, it means having some type of supernatural worth -- a value build into the very fabric of things. That type of meaning, that type of value, is a fiction.

But, atheists still value. Nature made us creatures capable of valuing. We care for our friends, our family. There may be no 'cosmic significance' in the well being of an atheist's child. But it is still her child, and the lack of 'cosmic significance' is of no significance to her. The child is to be cared for. The child is to be made happy, and healthy, and wise. This exists. This is real.

Anybody who wants to realize a life having real value, then he can find it in helping this mother obtain a better life -- a better real-world life -- for her child. It is in helping a real-world neighbor get her real-world car out of a real-world snowbank. It is in spending a real-world life with a real-world wife with whom you are in real-world love.

It is a real-world life filled with real-world meaning.

If you care to know about my investigation of this question in more detail, I have written of it in Ethics Without God: A Personal Journey (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46876).

[spacer1]

Originally posted by Godless Wonder:
...you have no business even asking the questions you're asking, as the answer is obvious: There can be no such meaning for an atheist, and the atheist is perfectly fine with that.
I'm an atheist and I'm not perfectly fine with that.
By the nature of your questions, I am beginning to suspect you are a troll.
By the nature of your answers...<insert ad hom here>.
You shouldn't need to ask these questions, the answers are obvious to anyone who thinks about them for half a minute.
Do you agree that the survival of life, and especially the survival of the human race, is our ultimate goal? If so, then wouldn't the more rational of either theism or atheism be the one which better ensures such survival? I wouldn't be so flippant about these questions.
If you spend your whole life taking "meaning" (whatever that is) from a religion which in reality turns out to be completely wrong, what was the meaning of your life then?
Probably not a lot different from my life as an atheist, since in both cases I would trust in my perceptions, instincts, thoughts, and feelings to act in my own best interest. I would describe theists as being generally less sceptical, however, and as having greater faith in these perceptions, instincts, etc. Also, I would associate this aspect of theism with subjectivity, and the more sceptical attitude of atheism with a more objective viewpoint.

Which POV gives the individual a better chance of survival? Since our desire to maintain life is immediately related to subjectivity we cannot stray too far from this end of the spectrum. However, the more objective viewpoint gives us a greater perspective, allowing us to better predict future events with greater accuracy. It seems likely that there may be an optimum perspective between these two poles.

Let me leave you with this question:

If you were in a situation where your calculated chances of survival was 3%, would you prefer to believe that you had only a 3% chance of survival or would you prefer to believe that you had a 100% chance?

[JCS]

If you were in a situation where your calculated chances of survival was 3%, would you prefer to believe that you had only a 3% chance of survival or would you prefer to believe that you had a 100% chance? If my chances were only 3% I can see no benefit in taking a deluded position. My chances of surviving to be 900 years old are much less than 3% and no amount of wishful thinking will change that.

[Keith Russell]

To claim that there is no meaning in this life unless there is an afterlife, is ridiculous.

Whether or not there is an afterlife, this life exists, right here, right now.

It is what it is--right here, right now.

If you can't find meaning in this life--the only one you have thus far known--if you can't find or create a meaning for your own life, on your own, without consulting a book written by someone else, well...you have my sympathy.

K

[Godless Wonder]

Originally posted by spacer1
I'm an atheist and I'm not perfectly fine with that.Why not?By the nature of your answers...<insert ad hom here>.Ok, point taken, sorry. (I did say "suspect" :-)Do you agree that the survival of life, and especially the survival of the human race, is our ultimate goal? The human race is not in danger of dying off in my lifetime, and ultimately nothing will prevent the eventual demise of all life on this planet, (though it might be prolonged, or more likely, shortened) so no, I don't think I agree. If that were our goal, then the best course of action to take right now would be to start killing ourselves off in huge numbers, or drastically reduce the global birth rate to bring the population down to a sustainable level, and then keep it there. (which probably would be a good idea. Most theism doesn't advocate that, that's for sure.)
[...]If so, then wouldn't the more rational of either theism or atheism be the one which better ensures such survival? [...]
I would have used the word "pragmatic" instead of "rational."
At this point in history, I don't expect it makes much difference whether the individual is theist or atheist in terms of the survival of life on earth. Unless perhaps you're the leader of a nuclear power and you put your trust in faith that God is on your side and get odd thoughts in your mind which you interpret to be holy instructions to push the big red launch button, or start a big war. . ., in that case, which is better for the humans, theism or atheism?

If you are talking about individual survival, or rather treating your body and your life as a vessel for your DNA, that's different. And, if it then became more pragmatic to choose theism for the pragmatic reason of increasing your odds of attracting a mate by not excluding the larger pool of choosy theist mates, "choosing theism" would really more likely be "pretending to choose theism." I can't imagine actually believing the stuff of which most religions are made. How pragmatic a particular belief is has no bearing on whether or not it is true, or on whether or not I am capable of believing it. If pragmatism were the only concern, I would be a Christian (or pretending to be one) this very minute. If religion has any bearing on survival (or rather, on reproductive success), it is because of the choosiness of potential mates.

[...]If you were in a situation where your calculated chances of survival was 3%, would you prefer to believe that you had only a 3% chance of survival or would you prefer to believe that you had a 100% chance?
What I prefer, or what even I believe, is irrelevant in your scenario as in each case the actual chance of survival is still 3% and it makes no difference what I prefer or believe. Maybe I misunderstand your scenario.

[xorbie]

I don't really believe that my life has any external meaning whatsoever. Without the existence of a God, I think it is fairly obvious that life is meaningless, especially with the definition of "meaning" that you put forth.

However, that life has no meaning is trivial and unimportant. If life exists without meaning, then how does its meaningless matter? I could understand how this might be a problem if life was supposed to have an inherent purpose, but I find this unlikely.

However, arguments can be made for several objective ways of speaking about life. Scientists attempt to define what life is. Moralists attempt to define what is "right" to do with life.

Life, essentially, is self-defining. It creates its own purpose through its own inherent properties. That is to say, certian properties are part of the nature of men, certain properties are part of the nature of society. Using these properties, we can say "this is what I should do, and this is what we as a society should do." Life may be objectively meaningless, but this does not mean that "good" and "bad" must be meaningless.

[Jinto]

spacer1, have you ever played a game? I'll assume you have. And why did you do it? Certainly, the playing of games accomplishes no overreaching purpose, no inherent meaning, nothing that actually matters one damn bit in our day-to-day existence, much less the cosmic scheme of things. And yet, you played anyway. Why?

Simple. Because you wanted to play the game. You needed no other reason. It mattered not that it didn't actually matter whether you played the game or not, you enjoyed playing the game and so you played the game. So, I pose the question: do you want to exist? If so, that alone is sufficient reason to live.

[EGGO]

Well I know one thing for sure, atheism isn't a meaning of life itself. Like religions have themselves be the meaning of your life.

Thanks to non-theism, I've found a greater, personal purpose in my life.

[PTT]

My post about sex being the meaning of life was not entirely tongue in cheek. If one is willing to accept Dawkins' view that our behaviour is based on a requirement to continue our genetic line then it becomes a very valid possibility.
Taking the line of the Evolutionarily Stable Strategy (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionarily_stable_strategy) as described by Dawkins in "The Selfish Gene" further allows for the range of behaviours a successful gene pool generates.

That, and sex is fun. :D

[The_Unknown_Banana]

"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions, and by the depth of our answers." - Carl Sagan :)

[Godless Wonder]

Originally posted by PTT
My post about sex being the meaning of life was not entirely tongue in cheek.
Well, if it were entirely "tongue in cheek", then you're not doing it right. :-)

When you get right down to it, the only real purpose of a person's life is to propagate the DNA they carry around. It's really that simple. Busy busy busy as the Bokononists say.

[Division By Zero]

Originally posted by spacer1
I don't believe that atheism is supposed to provide meaning, but given that theism does provide meaning, and given that atheism is the rejection of theism, seems to lead to atheism being the rejection of a meaning.
Not really. Theism can provide meaning, but it is not meaning in itself. The atheist rejects only one possible source of meaning.

Given that theism provides a goal, a perceived end purpose, and an ultimate reward seems more likely to promote life than atheism's lack of these meanings to life.
Actually, it seems to me that a religion that glorifies the afterlife would be more likely to cause someone to be less cautious with their life. If you're going to live forever in paradise, why take care of yourself now?

I think you're just twisting my words here. What I meant by "restrictive" was that the portrayed definition of theism was of a belief in God as just some expendable idea which has no effect on one's mindset and subsequent actions, which I don't believe is true.
I think what he meant was that the belief in a god provides no real meaning on its own. What matters is what follows from that belief, which is a rather individual thing. Atheists can't derive the meaning of their lives from this outside source called God, so they merely look elsewhere (generally, they look to themselves).

Yes, I do.
Like what? It implies a lack of belief in gods, and that implies that any prayers prayed or church services attended are not done out of true belief / worship / whatever, and are probably done to keep the peace with the family or some such thing. But I don't know what information you can really extract about someone's behavior given only the fact that they are an atheist.

I don't think it should cause you to treat your life with disdain, but nor should it cause you to treat you life with enthusiasm. Indifference seems to be the most logical attitude for an atheist, since it doesn't really make a difference whether we exist or not.
Why is that logical? If you zoom out and look at the big picture of the entire universe, then no, what I do in my lifetime is not likely to make even the slightest difference in the grand scheme of things. But so what? The universe doesn't care if I exist, but I don't see how that implies that I shouldn't care, either. Other people certainly care as well, because my existence affects their existence, either positively or negatively. I exist, so why shouldn't I try to get as much enjoyment out of existence as I can?

[openeyes]

Originally posted by TimeGoddess
I'm atheist because my belief in god didn't provide meaning in my life. All it provided was empty promises, fake people and weird rituals. The question itself is backwards - does non-belief in santa mean my kids will no longer work toward behaving well? Do it mean they wont get presents anymore?
To answer your question - Can atheism provide meaning in one's life? Yes

Some people act upon their belief in separation of church and state. Some people work toward making the world a better place by educating others that there is something other than theism. For me, I'm feel I'm better able to raise my kids into thinking adults. My children provide meaning in my life. Just being alive provides a reason to live! The satisfaction of being right!

My thoughts are along the lines of TimeGoddess, but the rest of you have also stated many good thoughts.

Scigirl's comment wasn't suppose to be a superiority statement as I read it (notice smiley face in original post). I feel this satisfaction in that the world behaves more as I expect it to since I considered a world without a god, and this sense of clarity has only gotten stronger in the 25 years or so since I first had this thought occur, so I think it's the right conclusion.

[tronvillain]

spacer1:
How can atheism provide meaning to one's life?
It can't. What is your point? I derive meaning from life itself, from my experiences of the things and people I enjoy, not from my beliefs about the nonexistence of deities.

[Keith Russell]

Godless Wonder said:
When you get right down to it, the only real purpose of a person's life is to propagate the DNA they carry around.

Well, I'll have to find another purpose, then. Maybe one that isn't quite so 'real'.

My wife and I have taken the necessary steps to insure that we won't have kids...

K

[Mageth]

I'll echo Keith Russell's response to Godless Wonder. My wife and I couldn't conceive, and thus I won't be passing along my DNA. Others, obviously, choose not to have children. And, obviously, we find other ways to make our lives meaningful. (BTW, we adopted a son; raising and loving him is where I find my most significant "meaning" these days.)

As far as the OP post, to me it's a difference between Meaning (with a capitol M) and meaning. There is no real Meaning to life; sure, we can assign or invent one such as theists do with their grandiose plans for future life as part of some God's Kingdom, or the perhaps equally grandiose (but possible) future expansion of humankind into space a la Roddenberry. But all of us, theist and non-theist alike, actually gets up each day for the little meanings in life, which each of us is responsible for finding and following ourselves.

[LittleGuy]

I have no meaning in my life.

On the other hand, I cannot take my life because the defense mechanisms wired into my brain forbid me from self-termination.

We're not much more than complicated machines with "do not kill yourself" programmed into our heads. Given sever malfunction, it can still occur though...

...

Anyone care to comment on this errant analogy that occured to me? :D

[Alonzo Fyfe]

Originally posted by LittleGuy
I have no meaning in my life.

On the other hand, I cannot take my life because the defense mechanisms wired into my brain forbid me from self-termination.

And what about the writing of this post? Is there some "posting mechanisms" wired into your brain that determines the wording that you would use on a post?

One does not need to argue for a contra-causal free will to argue that we have some decision-making capability.



Originally posted by LittleGuy
We're not much more than complicated machines with "do not kill yourself" programmed into our heads. Given sever malfunction, it can still occur though...

So, on what basis do you identify this as a 'malfunction'?

It's not a bug, it's a feature.

[Liberated]

Originally posted by Shinobi
Our lives have whatever meaning we ascribe to it. That's one thing I like about atheism, you prescribe your own meaning rather than make pleasing the inflated ego of a higher power. I'm glad there is no god, because then everything that I want to do in life would be secondary to worship of a god.
Well said.

I agree with most of the other atheists have stated here.

[geddit?]

Originally posted by spacer1

Let me leave you with this question:

If you were in a situation where your calculated chances of survival was 3%, would you prefer to believe that you had only a 3% chance of survival or would you prefer to believe that you had a 100% chance?

Calculating and believing are two very different things.

Play fair Socrates. ;)

[geddit?]

Or should I say Pascal?;)

[Katarzyna]

Originally posted by scigirl
The satisfaction of being right! :)

scigirl

The relief at not having to lie.

Kat

[Gurdur]

Just a short note here:

I've read quite a few of spacer1's posts, and he is very definitely not a troll, and he asks good questions which deserve good answers, and not brush-offs.

[Gurdur]

Originally posted by tronvillain

It can't. ..... I derive meaning from life itself, from my experiences of the things and people I enjoy, not from my beliefs about the nonexistence of deities.

Agreed.

[rainbow walking]

rw: Alot of good answers have already been submitted. Theism is a pre-defined meaning to which believers struggle to conform to. Atheism is a rejection of this predefined meaning. It doesn't follow that to reject one predefined meaning leaves one free from all predefined meanings. There are a host of heirarchical ideologies to which an atheist can derive various aspects of meaning as he/she begins establishing their own personal worth.

On a side note, when I was an active christian minister I can't begin to count how many believers asked me to pray for them that god would reveal to them his plan for their lives. So you see, even buying into theism doesn't assure the believer any satisfaction of a predefined meaning. Theisms basic dogma merely ascribes specific behaviors implying that obedience will lead the believer into the perfect will of god. Unfortunately the twain rarely ever connect on a personal level and believers, though sincere in their quest, are left struggling with many issues revolving around their specific purpose and role in gods pre-defined plan. The bottom line for the believer is: Servitude. They're led to view their labors as meaningful to god, when in reality they're only meaningful to the church administrators and pastors. Thus another level of dissonance emerges exposing their deep dissatisfaction with their current level of servitude, which can't help but appear meaningless to them when the only people benefitting are those who are not in need.

[tronvillain]

*chuckle* Well, I am glad someone agrees. Thanks Gurdur.

[geddit?]

Originally posted by Gurdur
Just a short note here:

I've read quite a few of spacer1's posts, and he is very definitely not a troll, and he asks good questions which deserve good answers, and not brush-offs.

It is a good thread.

He's having his fun though.:)

He ended with Pascal's Wager.:D

It's also a difficult question to answer well. I tend to lump alot of other perspectives/personality traits in with my atheism. I think (in a very difficult to quantify way) it's provided a great deal of meaning to my life. But it's only part of the whole because there are alot of reasons I'm an atheist.

To put it in the way spacer1 is looking for:

Atheism provides for a life that is meant to be dedicated to reality, to be examined fully, to be questioned unceasingly - or at least try to. ;) You could easily swap atheism for skepticism or lots of other things. But you could do the same when trying to define the meaning of theism as well.

Atheism provides cold comfort in regards to many of life's "big" questions, but it's not an imagined comfort. I'm currently reading a book called The Matrix and Philosphy(yeah,yeah:p) containing an essay by Gerald Erion and Barry Smith. To paraphrase:

"The decision to face the "desert of the real" allows a person to undertake genuine action and have genuine experiences that give his/her life meaning, and thus a moral value. As the moral philosopher John Stuart Mill writes, "It's better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied."

Applying the Socratic Method spacer1?
I'd say so.:)

[spacer1]

Is this thread still alive? :o

Apologies for not responding back to everyone, but I just wanted to make a couple of quick points and then, hopefully, this thread can go back to dying. :D

Firstly, thanks Gurdur for your support and for what I took to be a compliment. :)
Originallly posted by geddit:
Atheism provides for a life that is meant to be dedicated to reality, to be examined fully, to be questioned unceasingly - or at least try to.
Why must it be questioned, though?
"The decision to face the "desert of the real" allows a person to undertake genuine action and have genuine experiences that give his/her life meaning, and thus a moral value."
Given what definition of "genuine" or "real"?
Applying the Socratic Method spacer1?
I'm not sure. I haven't read Plato. If asking questions is the Socratic Method, then I guess so. :p

[Weltall]

Life is it's own meaning. I am my own reason for existing, and my desire to continue to exist is why I'm still around. I also think that we can give our lives meaning, but there isn't any default meaning to existance.

[geddit?]

Originally posted by spacer1
Is this thread still alive? :o

It's a good thread.:p

Why must it be questioned, though?

Not must, but I suppose it's the best way to get answers and check their validity.

Given what definition of "genuine" or "real"?

In contrast to theism or the supernatural.
"Existing or occurring as fact as opposed to imaginary, ideal, or fictitous"."Authentic, not fake".(Random House Dictionary)

Judged to the best of your ability though and you could easily call a persons abilities(mine in particular) into question here.:D

I'm not sure. I haven't read Plato. If asking questions is the Socratic Method, then I guess so. :p

I "imagine" Socrates would be happy.:)
But I really don't know.:p