Anti-Semitism is the worst of all crimes

[Huzington]

What is the general opinion here, not on the Semites themselves, but on anti-Semitism?

My opinion is that it is a terrible crime in all forms.

[Mullibok]

Well as history has shown, it can certainly lead to the worst crimes...

[Walross]

Why would anti-semitism in itself be worse than any other form of racism?

[HumanisTim]

This brought up an interesting point to me. If its political suicide to make an antisemite comment. Why then isn't it the same when someone makes an antiatheist comment. From what I've read on various surveys, our numbers are higher.

[Sarpedon]

I guess we have to wait till the christians gas 7 million of us before we get any sympathy.

[The Other Michael]

A number of them would just be happy to see the Lord's work done.

cheers,
Michael

[Loren Pechtel]

Originally posted by Huzington
What is the general opinion here, not on the Semites themselves, but on anti-Semitism?

My opinion is that it is a terrible crime in all forms.

I don't see how anti-semitism is any worse than other forms of discrimination such as racism.

[Philosoft]

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
I don't see how anti-semitism is any worse than other forms of discrimination such as racism.
Indeed, save that anti-semitism is not necessarily discrimination; it can be mere prejudice. The idea that anti-semitism is somehow worse is obviously a thinly-veiled appeal to emotion - it was horrible that the Nazis killed 6 million or so Jews, therefore anti-semitism is super-bad.

[Gothic_J]

Id argue willful ignorance, more then antisemitism, is the worst of all crimes.

the first covers a multitude of sins.

[excreationist]

Originally posted by Huzington
What is the general opinion here, not on the Semites themselves, but on anti-Semitism?

My opinion is that it is a terrible crime in all forms.
Your topic's title says "Anti-Semitism is the worst of all crimes". So is someone who hates Jews but otherwise well-behaved worse than a mass-murderering rapist who loves Jews?
Also, what do you think the penalty should be if a person says "all Jews are idiots" since you say it is a terrible crime...?

[Huzington]

Originally posted by excreationist
Your topic's title says "Anti-Semitism is the worst of all crimes". So is someone who hates Jews but otherwise well-behaved worse than a mass-murderering rapist who loves Jews?
Also, what do you think the penalty should be if a person says "all Jews are idiots" since you say it is a terrible crime...?

Because Jews have been persecuted more than any other race in history, I believe that anti-Semitism is worse than other forms of racism. Anti-Semitism could easily lead to another Holocaust because it is the tendency of barbarians to hate Jews, and there are so many barbarians. It therefore has to be punished severely no matter how seemingly trivial the anti-Semitism is. It is the proclivity of too many people to hate Jews. If even a trace of anti-Semitism is apparent in popular notion, then the Holocaust might very well recur. I think the possibility of another Holocaust is sufficient to justify my position. In addition to persecution of the Semites in the past, I believe that the world-wide persecution of Semites today is sufficient to justify my position.

In Canada, unlike America, mildly anti-Semitic remarks are punishable. I agree with this. But there are (or were) other countries in which anti-Semitism is, in my opinion, more justly punished.

Unfortunately, we have too many feeble-minded barbarians who think it "cool" to hate Jews. Can these people really be talked with? Can these people be reasonable? I do not think so.

[never been there]

If it's in someone's nature to be hateful, anti-semitism represents, if nothing else, a severe lack of originality. Pick on someone else, if only for a change.

[dangin]

I don't understand anti-semetism at all. I mean I've heard all about it, and I've heard the dumb ass arguments in favor of hating jews. But as an atheist, and as a secular person, judaism is just about my favorite religion, because it's practitioners are not evangelical. If muslims and christians were not evangelical they'd be a lot better too.

[cpickett]

What you are talking about, is a hate crime of sorts, which mostly have one thing in common, they infringe on my right to freedom of speech. If I want, I should and do have the right to speak out against any race, religion, opinion, car maker, It's my right as a human being, to voice my opinions, as it is yours as well.

If my "hate" of another race carries me beyond my simply voicing my opinion, and into the realm of a murderous rage, we already have laws against it. We also have laws against inchoate crimes, such as attempt, conspiracy, and solicitation. You will not stop crimes of hate, until you get rid of hate itself. But, not infringing upon anyones rights, is the better option.

Why, in your opinion, does anti-semitism lead to something of the nature of the holocuast, than does the hate of blacks?

[paul30]

There have been many horrid pogroms in history, but the worst one I know of was not committed by Hitler against the Jews (and against many others, by the way; more non-Jews than Jews).

The worst I know of was that of the Europeans against the peoples living in North and South America. When Columbus came there were at least 16 million Indians. A century later there were less than three million.

Part of this was from disease; but most was deliberate.

Naturally, it wasn't confined to the Spanish and Portugese. The English, French, and later the citizens of the US were equally fierce.

[Huzington]

Originally posted by dangin
I don't understand anti-semetism at all. I mean I've heard all about it, and I've heard the dumb ass arguments in favor of hating jews. But as an atheist, and as a secular person, judaism is just about my favorite religion, because it's practitioners are not evangelical. If muslims and christians were not evangelical they'd be a lot better too.

Ah, but you must make a distinction between anti-Semitism and anti-Judaism. The Semites are a race of people. This is biological. Judaism is a religion. This is a superstition. I completely support anti-Judaism, just as I support anti-Christianity and anti-Buddhism. For I am against all religions and superstitions. But anti-Semites, such as the Nazis and racialists, are of a completely different order. It was anti-Semitism, not anti-Judaism, in addition to German barbarism, which brought about the Holocaust.

[Huzington]

Originally posted by cpickett
We also have laws against inchoate crimes, such as attempt, conspiracy, and solicitation. You will not stop crimes of hate, until you get rid of hate itself. But, not infringing upon anyones rights, is the better option.

Only my mothod can get rid of hatred of the Semites.

Why, in your opinion, does anti-semitism lead to something of the nature of the holocuast, than does the hate of blacks?

The difference is that Semites are successful as a race and have made innumerous contributions to history. This is not to say anything against black persons whose social position and consequent insufficiency in historic contributions are probably the result of environmental factors, for all races are equal. I hate to say it, because I have no difference in respect for individuals of any race, but the Jews inarguably play and have played a much larger role in history than black persons. The difference is that the Jews are a successful Minority; and it is the tendency of the Majority to detest highly successful minorities. It tends to make them feel inferior. History is interspersed with examples of this (e.g., Holocaust). By way of the Majority's racial chauvinism, it is the Majority's fault that other races are less successful. But time and time again the Jews have proved cleverer than the Majority.

We must ban all anti-Semitism because feelings of inferiority and hatred result in holocausts. Anti-Negro racists generally hate blacks because they think them inferior. Anti-Semitic racists, on the other hand, hate Semites because they feel inferior. A very important difference.

[Loren Pechtel]

Originally posted by paul30
The worst I know of was that of the Europeans against the peoples living in North and South America. When Columbus came there were at least 16 million Indians. A century later there were less than three million.

Part of this was from disease; but most was deliberate.

What I've seen attributed most of the deaths to disease.

[Abel Stable]

Originally posted by Huzington
Only my mothod can get rid of hatred of the Semites.
...
We must ban all anti-Semitism...
Sorry but this is just absurd. You think that by making hatred of semites illegal it will eventually cleanse all possible hatred in the future? How do you propose to change people's deep seeded feelings through legislation? If anything, it would encourage anti-Semites.

[Huzington]

Originally posted by Abel Stable
Sorry but this is just absurd. You think that by making hatred of semites illegal it will eventually cleanse all possible hatred in the future? How do you propose to change people's deep seeded feelings through legislation? If anything, it would encourage anti-Semites.

Well, it is difficult to be openly anti-Semitic when you are in a prison. Anti-Semitism will not spread if anti-Semitic propagandists cannot influence anyone beyond their cell mates. It will take a couple of generations, but I firmly believe that, by this means, anti-Semitism can be completely got rid of.

[xorbie]

Originally posted by Huzington
Well, it is difficult to be openly anti-Semitic when you are in a prison. Anti-Semitism will not spread if anti-Semitic propagandists cannot influence anyone beyond their cell mates. It will take a couple of generations, but I firmly believe that, by this means, anti-Semitism can be completely got rid of.

I'm sorry, perhaps you missed the part where Hitler wrote Mein Kampf in prison. Also, banning anti-semitism is impossible, and also sets the worst legal precedent in the history of legal precedents, Patriot Act included. And that's saying a lot.

[Robert Anthony]

This is a pointless debate centered around moderns man's moralistic naivete (some call it 'conscience', or 'moral foundations', or whatever). Moral dualism can warp one's soul.

I have to wonder, when you reflexively shriek "Barbarism!" at whatever agitates your demented sense of guilt, do you despise yourself that much?

Is the cross the only option?

[premjan]

is a result of a historical accident: much of western culture is built upon Judeo-Christianity. Anti-semitism is just a distorted form of self-hate, which all cultures have to some extent. Unless of course, if you believe in God. In that case, anti-semitism is merely the way the Lord intended it, since the Jews are the chosen people of God.

misanthropy and terrorism are much bigger crimes than anti-semitism. Anti-semitism does not have to lead to extreme genocidal action as in the case of Hitler. It might be restricted to irritation and dislike. In that case it would not be a crime. Moreover, the Jewish people have been successful despite anti-semitism (you might even say it acts as a motivational factor).

Besides the phrase "anti-semitism" is weird and wrong somehow, since Arabs are also semites, and they also seem to be anti-jew. You could call it anti-jewish racism.

[HelenM]

Originally posted by Huzington
What is the general opinion here, not on the Semites themselves, but on anti-Semitism?

My opinion is that it is a terrible crime in all forms.

Then your opinion is arbitrary and irrational, if what you wrote below is correct, that any definition of good and bad is arbitrary and irrational.

Originally posted by Huzington (on another thread)
Any definition of good is arbitrary and irrational. So it does not matter what I say. The belief that killing is good is just as irrational as the belief that helping others is good. Though they are both irrational, yet the majority are naturally fonder of the latter claim. That is sufficient for me: since the majority are fonder of the latter, the latter view will be more likely to be successful as a moral doctrine. I choose the latter, i.e. that helping others is good, not because it is true, not because it is rational, but because it is more likely to be a successful moral doctrine. I choose the fittest moral. If killing is good were fit, I would choose that. But it is not. It has no chance of being a successful moral doctrine.

That is how I define good and bad.

[cpickett]

Originally posted by Huzington
Only my mothod can get rid of hatred of the Semites.

I disagree, I think your method would only increase the hatred... It just wouldn't be voiced.

[Sarpedon]

I strongly disapprove of the religion of judaism. It is a racist ideology that states that one group of people (the jews, or hebrews as they pretend to be) are superior to others (God's chosen people) by basis of their lineage (From Abraham via Isaac) and are therefore entitled to certain things (the land of palestine, among others). Jews don't allow people to convert to judaism because if you are not born a jew, you cannot become one. They allow people to convert when they marry a jew for the sake of the children. The myths of the jews are full of all kinds of unsettling and disgusting behavior. Sadly, we are seeing reflections of these myths in the current israeli treatment of the palestinians. Therefore I repeat, the religion of the jews is rascist, primitive and false. I disapprove of anyone who would believe such trash. Does this make me anti-semitic? What punishment do you prescribe?

[xorbie]

Sarpedon

It makes you anti-Semitic if you actually believe people of Arab descent are all trash. However, most Jews are far more liberal. Oh, sure, there are the few fundies that there are in all relgion and the hardcore extremist Zionists, but few actually buy into that "superior people" crap.

Now as for dislike of Palestinians, it is sad but I think it would be a stretch to call this racism, and more of a stretch to say it is caused by their religion alone. It's hard when every week, you hear of another bombing...

[Mullibok]

Originally posted by Sarpedon
Jews don't allow people to convert to judaism because if you are not born a jew, you cannot become one. They allow people to convert when they marry a jew for the sake of the children.

That's a load of crap. Did you come to that conclusion on your own without looking into it at all? Ask someone that actually knows before making such patently false statements.

[Magic Primate]

No, paedophilia is the worst of all crimes.

[Sarpedon]

Absolutely, I know that most mainstream jews don't believe in that chosen people stuff either, but all too many do. Israel is full of them. One benefit to the existance of israel to the United states is that all the gun toting redneck jews have moved there, leaving us with the smart, well-adjusted ones. The ones I disapprove of are the ones who believe the primitive stuff. I was trying to provoke a reaction from Halliburton, who seems to have an axe to grind. I am against all religion, but have a special dislike for judaism, which is one of the oldest, and therefore, one of the most primitive.

Hey Mullibok. Rabbis are instructed to disuade potential converts. thats a fact. And don't tell me that the Torah doesn't overplay the importance of race and geneology...why do you think there is so much "And Jezerwitzle begat Hombre, and Hombre begat Thengel, and Thengel begat Amos...etc" if birth and lineage weren't important. Are you one of those fundies who doesn't bother to read the bible? Did the orthodox jews of israel not recently denounce those of america, calling them "not real jews" for their various policies, including not making a big deal out of ancestry? Keep your insults to yourself, Mullibok.

[rfwu]

When you define how horrid a crime is, you have to look into the context of the crime itself. Murder is a horrific crime, but what about executions, war, and self-defense? There are many factors in determining how bad a crime is.

Oh, and about the Holocaust? 6 million Jews? What about the 10 million Chinese civilians in WWII? Or the staggering 20 million Soviet civilians? I remember reading a quote from Hitler about how he rationalized the Holocaust. "Who remember the Armenians today?" During the turn of the century, Armenia had their own holocaust consisting of about 1-2 million deaths.

I really think that the worst crime would have to be forgetting past crimes. The Jews have done an excellent job of preventing that. Tragically, it has led to the forgetting of every other mass genocide, from Armenia to Rwanda. HAVE YOU NO SHAME?!?!?!

[contracycle]

Originally posted by Huzington
Because Jews have been persecuted more than any other race in history,

Really?

[Amen-Moses]

Originally posted by xorbie
Now as for dislike of Palestinians, it is sad but I think it would be a stretch to call this racism, and more of a stretch to say it is caused by their religion alone.

Which one, christianity? ;)

Amen-Moses

[Soul Invictus]

Originally posted by Huzington
Because Jews have been persecuted more than any other race in history, I believe that anti-Semitism is worse than other forms of racism. Anti-Semitism could easily lead to another Holocaust because it is the tendency of barbarians to hate Jews, and there are so many barbarians.


So I guess that makes the Jews the ultimate victims hey? I seem to recall an African slave trade that had more victims than the Nazi Holocaust as well as a "barbaric" Columbus who initiated a similar Holocaust of his own here in America with a number that exceeds your precious 6-7 million as well.

If you're counting casualities, you're fighting a lost cause. I understand that you live in Canada, but here in the US we have this phenomenon called racism where you don't have to utter any disparaging remarks anymore. It's more sophisticated than that. So I would like to see you define "persecution" for me. Does lack of economic empowerment count? Does being subjected to US invasions in the form of bombings, and wars count? Plus, I'd be hard pressed that derogatory or racial slurs are necessarily tolerated here either.

[Soul Invictus]

Originally posted by Huzington

The difference is that Semites are successful as a race and have made innumerous contributions to history.


Would you care to state some examples for me? Seeing as how they come around later in terms of antiquity, I'd like to know what these accomplishments are.

[Gregg]

Originally posted by Soul Invictus
Would you care to state some examples for me? Seeing as how they come around later in terms of antiquity, I'd like to know what these accomplishments are. Jews and persons of half-Jewish ancestry have been awarded at least 159 Nobel Prizes, accounting for 22% of all such prizes awarded to individuals worldwide between 1901 and 2002.1
These individuals constitute 36% of all US Nobel Prize winners.
In the scientific research fields of Chemistry, Economics, Medicine, and Physics, the corresponding world and US percentages are 25% and 38%, respectively. (Jews currently make up approximately 0.25% of the world's population and 2% of the US population.)
Chemistry (25 prize winners, 18% of world total, 27% of US total)
Economics (21 prize winners, 41% of world total, 53% of US total)
Literature (11 prize winners, 11% of world total, 25% of US total)
Medicine (51 prize winners, 28% of world total, 40% of US total)
Peace (9 prize winners, 10% of world total, 12% of US total)2
Physics (42 prize winners, 26% of world total, 37% of US total)


Even if you have a problem with the Israeli-Palestinian thing, ya gotta admit this is pretty darned impressive! :)

P.S. I'm not even Jewish, and don't flame me for this, but I just gotta add this snotty remark...Muslims might catch up...if they introduce a new Nobel Prize for Terrorism! :D

[Soul Invictus]

Originally posted by Gregg
Jews and persons of half-Jewish ancestry have been awarded at least 159 Nobel Prizes, accounting for 22% of all such prizes awarded to individuals worldwide between 1901 and 2002.1
These individuals constitute 36% of all US Nobel Prize winners.
In the scientific research fields of Chemistry, Economics, Medicine, and Physics, the corresponding world and US percentages are 25% and 38%, respectively. (Jews currently make up approximately 0.25% of the world's population and 2% of the US population.)
Chemistry (25 prize winners, 18% of world total, 27% of US total)
Economics (21 prize winners, 41% of world total, 53% of US total)
Literature (11 prize winners, 11% of world total, 25% of US total)
Medicine (51 prize winners, 28% of world total, 40% of US total)
Peace (9 prize winners, 10% of world total, 12% of US total)2
Physics (42 prize winners, 26% of world total, 37% of US total)


Even if you have a problem with the Israeli-Palestinian thing, ya gotta admit this is pretty darned impressive! :)

P.S. I'm not even Jewish, and don't flame me for this, but I just gotta add this snotty remark...Muslims might catch up...if they introduce a new Nobel Prize for Terrorism! :D

True, I have no problem admitting the accomplishments they've made. I'm wondering if you could find out for me what % Jew-half Jewish ancestral persons hold worldwide wealth (monetary, natural resources such as gold etc) Also what % of these assets when compared to the world do they hold also. I think its a fair assumption that the Nobel Prize winners have an impressive social and educational background. What I'm getting at is that it would naturally follow that those that are financially and strategically positioned to make contributions to the world such as this would be one of the preeminent leaders.

What I was more concerned with was if Huzington was speaking into development of precepts of law, philosophy, medicine, etc as in antiquarian terms..that that the Egyptians, Greeks, and Chinese have been accredited with.

[contracycle]

Originally posted by Gregg

P.S. I'm not even Jewish, and don't flame me for this, but I just gotta add this snotty remark...Muslims might catch up...if they introduce a new Nobel Prize for Terrorism! :D

Nah, they'll never be able to compete with the Yanks.

[Gurdur]

Originally posted by Sarpedon
.....
Hey Mullibok. Rabbis are instructed to disuade potential converts. thats a fact.
That doesn't add upü to your previous statement, which was simply wrong:
Jews don't allow people to convert to judaism because if you are not born a jew, you cannot become one.
Quite simply wrong. There have been quite a few converts to Judaism.
Are you one of those fundies who doesn't bother to read the bible?
Irrelevant ad hominem.
Did the orthodox jews of israel not recently denounce those of america, calling them "not real jews" for their various policies, including not making a big deal out of ancestry?
You seem to forget that "orthodox Jews" fall into quite a few different categories.
There are a lot of (ultra-)orthodox Jews who do not recognize the validity of the modern state of Israel.

Keep your insults to yourself, Mullibok.
Perhaps it would help if you did the same, and cleared up those inaccuracies.

[Huzington]

Originally posted by Gregg
Jews and persons of half-Jewish ancestry have been awarded at least 159 Nobel Prizes, accounting for 22% of all such prizes awarded to individuals worldwide between 1901 and 2002.1
These individuals constitute 36% of all US Nobel Prize winners.
In the scientific research fields of Chemistry, Economics, Medicine, and Physics, the corresponding world and US percentages are 25% and 38%, respectively. (Jews currently make up approximately 0.25% of the world's population and 2% of the US population.)
Chemistry (25 prize winners, 18% of world total, 27% of US total)
Economics (21 prize winners, 41% of world total, 53% of US total)
Literature (11 prize winners, 11% of world total, 25% of US total)
Medicine (51 prize winners, 28% of world total, 40% of US total)
Peace (9 prize winners, 10% of world total, 12% of US total)2
Physics (42 prize winners, 26% of world total, 37% of US total)

Thank you. Jews also have a higher than average IQ.

[Soul Invictus]

Originally posted by Huzington
Thank you. Jews also have a higher than average IQ.

This sounds like good old Herrnstein and Murray pseudo science (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0029146739/qid=1063415574/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-9999940-7574340?v=glance&s=books) all over again. :boohoo:

[rfwu]

Originally posted by Huzington
Thank you. Jews also have a higher than average IQ.

<Sarcasm>So we ARE saying that Jews are a superior race deserving of extra special treatment?<Sarcasm>

[Robert Anthony]

Originally posted by rfwu
<Sarcasm>So we ARE saying that Jews are a superior race deserving of extra special treatment?<Sarcasm>

Obviously! These high-IQ'd Supermen are the self-designated "special people" of God, the divinely ordained masters of the earth. Who are we, mere underlings to Jehovah's mystery-shrouded ways, to judge them? One only has to remember the exceeding courage and fitness with which they distinguished themselves during WW2.

[xorbie]

Not quite sure what that last post was supposed to mean, but I suspect that you may have some explaining to do.

[NearNihil Experience]

It should be noted that racially, Jews are not the only Semetic race. MOst persons from the area of Turkey, Syria, Jordan, Palastine, Israel, even into parts of Iraq People are Semetic.

So what is Anti-Semitism? A racial stereotype of unreasonable
hatred.

I don't find most people's racism towards Jews unreasonable. For one reason, Jews have intertwined race, ethnicity, and religion to create a mental block on its people to prevent them from ever thinking they are no better than everyone else. I'm sorry history is littered with tragedy against the Jewish people, but maybe if they weren't so isolationist, viscious, hard headed, violent and uncompromising then maybe other nations and races wouldn't keep going after them.

I am not anti-Semetic, I am anti-Isreal. And anti-anyone who plays a tribe mentality in this modern day. If Jews are going to be arrogant and racist, why not expect the same from others?

No peace in the middle east....
josh

[Tickfast]

There are a lot of people that have a problem with my marriage. We're not the same color, the same religion, we used daycare, we use public schools...

There are a lot of people that say we're WRONG.

We've had problems with getting service, with renting, with...
Anyway, the 'crime' of being 'prejudiced' is someone else's problem.
Someone doesn't like Jews? Big whoop.
Someone spells 'negro' with two g's? Big whoop.

Now, when that affects their job performance, or infringes on my rights, that's a different problem. A different crime. Still, it's usually nothing that a good lawyer can't fix.
When i try to list 'worst of all crimes' i have to start with Murder. The victim cannot recover from it. Maybe the murder was spurred by bigotry but the opinion wasn't a 'crime.' The assault was.

[meritocrat]

Originally posted by Huzington
What is the general opinion here, not on the Semites themselves, but on anti-Semitism?

My opinion is that it is a terrible crime in all forms.

I think people have a right to be anti-Semetic.

[Huzington]

Originally posted by meritocrat
I think people have a right to be anti-Semetic.

Now my opinion . . . .

I think anti-Semites, Nazis, fascists, etc., should be got rid of completely.

[livius drusus]

In what manner should they be "got [sic] rid of" in your opinion?

[meritocrat]

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
I don't see how anti-semitism is any worse than other forms of discrimination such as racism.

It's not. In free societies people should possess the right to be anti-Semetic or 'racist'.

[meritocrat]

Originally posted by Huzington
Now my opinion . . . .

I think anti-Semites, Nazis, fascists, etc., should be got rid of completely.

Why? Because their opinions are offensive to you?

[rfwu]

it's not really the opinion of anti-semitism/racism that is bad, it's the ACT of anti-semitism/racism that is bad

[Huzington]

Originally posted by livius drusus
In what manner should they be "got [sic] rid of" in your opinion?

Why did you put in a "sic"? That was perfectly correct. In non-American countries, "gotten" is considered as either an archaism or an Americanism. They started using "gotten" in the late 1800s, but then rejected it in the 1920s, and it went back to "got" -- except in America.

Owing to the conflicting British and American influences in Canada, both "got" and "gotten" are correct in Canada, but "got" is commoner.

Now to answer your question.

It does not matter how they are got rid of. Their non-existence is desirable by whatever means, whether through education, conditioning, or whatever else you can imagine.

[Huzington]

Originally posted by meritocrat
Why? Because their opinions are offensive to you?

Because they are bad for the proletariat inasmuch as they divide the working class racially thereby hindering revolutionary movements and because Semites have made innumerable contributions to human history and therefore anti-Semitism is a crime against humanity.

[Soul Invictus]

Originally posted by Huzington
Because they are bad for the proletariat inasmuch as they divide the working class racially thereby hindering revolutionary movements and because Semites have made innumerable contributions to human history and therefore anti-Semitism is a crime against humanity.

We've already heard about the contributions to society, that Semites have made to humanity. I'm glad they were able to join in as well. I'm failing to see how the fact that Semites also contribute to humanity has any bearing on why you feel that anti-Semites should be gotten rid of. This is equally a qualifiable statement for any of the myriad of peoples that have contributed to mankind, so what is the especial uniqueness? This is a confusing and pointles statement.

[Huzington]

Originally posted by Soul Invictus
We've already heard about the contributions to society, that Semites have made to humanity. I'm glad they were able to join in as well. I'm failing to see how the fact that Semites also contribute to humanity has any bearing on why you feel that anti-Semites should be gotten rid of. This is equally a qualifiable statement for any of the myriad of peoples that have contributed to mankind, so what is the especial uniqueness? This is a confusing and pointles statement.

I believe that the worthiness of any group of people is determined by how much they have contributed to human history. Obviously the working class and Eurasia have contributed the most to history. But the Jews, a minority, hold a special place for their disproportionately high amount of contributions to history.

[Soul Invictus]

Originally posted by Huzington
I believe that the worthiness of any group of people is determined by how much they have contributed to human history. Obviously the working class and Eurasia have contributed the most to history. But the Jews, a minority, hold a special place for their disproportionately high amount of contributions to history.

I usually don't respond to such bigoted remarks, however would you care to offer sources and references for these claims?

Also, does the "worthiness" level/value of a group decrease as a result of their negative contributions as well? How do we measure such accomplishments and detractments? How do we apportion value to these positive and negative contributions?

[Soul Invictus]

Originally posted by Huzington
But the Jews, a minority, hold a special place for their disproportionately high amount of contributions to history.

I believe I asked you once before about these high amount of contributions, and someone had to do some homework for you. Did you fail to see my rebut earlier on?

[Huzington]

Originally posted by Soul Invictus
I usually don't respond to such bigoted remarks,

You are being bigoted.

however would you care to offer sources and references
for these claims?

Yes. All human history. Just read almost any book . . . . Most likely
it is a source. Eurasian culture, Eurasian science, Eurasian
everything. Everything is a source.

But do not misunderstand me. This has nothing to do with "biological superiority".
This has everything to do with
Social Constructs, with social relations, with the economy.

Also, does the "worthiness" level/value of a group decrease as a result of their negative contributions as well?

Yes.

How do we measure such accomplishments and detractments? How do we apportion value to these positive and negative contributions?

How do we measure the degree of exploitation in the world
(on the one hand)? How do we measure the amount of
contributions? By counting.

[Soul Invictus]

Originally posted by Huzington
You are being bigoted.
How so? Because I don't come to the same conclusion as you do?


Yes. All human history. Just read almost any book . . . . Most likely
it is a source. Eurasian culture, Eurasian science, Eurasian
everything. Everything is a source.

Oh....that much aye? I'm still waiting for examples and sources. I've read many books, however the air that you're spewing that it is common knowledge that the Jews are so overly influential on civlization is not embraced as a common theme that you appear to be so readily able to do.


How do we measure the degree of exploitation in the world
(on the one hand)? How do we measure the amount of
contributions? By counting.

Okay so list them..I'm still waiting for tangibles...not your inconclusive generalizations.

[Huzington]

Originally posted by Soul Invictus
I believe I asked you once before about these high amount of contributions, and someone had to do some homework for you. Did you fail to see my rebut earlier on?

Let us see . . . The greatest minds in history -- Jewish minds: Da
Vinci, Spinoza, Einstein, Marx, Wittgenstein, Popper, Neuman,
Einstein, Bohr, Edward Teller., many great revolutionaries, etc.,
etc., etc. According to some sources, Stalin was also part Jewish.
Much evidence above, too, the rather the Nobel prize stuff.

[rfwu]

Originally posted by Huzington
Let us see . . . The greatest minds in history -- Jewish minds: Da
Vinci, Spinoza, Einstein, Marx, Wittgenstein, Popper, Neuman,
Einstein, Bohr, Edward Teller., many great revolutionaries, etc.,
etc., etc. According to some sources, Stalin was also part Jewish.
Much evidence above, too, the rather the Nobel prize stuff.

Let's see ... influential people ... Kennedy, Ghengis Khan, Saladin, Julius Cesar, Socrates, Nebuchadnezzar , Confucius, Lao Tzu, Princess Diana, Mohandas Ghandi, Napoleon Bonapart, Plato, Martin Luther King Jr., Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini, Buddha, Mao Zedong, <snicker> Adolf Hitler <snicker>, Nelson Mandela, Jackie Robinson, Bruce Lee, Rosa Parks, Muhhamad, Hernando Cortez, Voltaire, Teddy Roosevelt, Cleopatra, Shakespeare, Ben Franklin, Abe Lincoln, Cesar Chavez, Ramses II, Marcus Aurelius, Homer, Peter the Great, Hannibal, Attilla the Hun, Cyrus the Great, Aristotle, Alexander the Great, Crazy Horse, Charles Darwin, John Newton, George Washington, Amelia Earheart, Indra Ghandi, Thomas Paine, Oskar Schindler, Ivan the Terrible, Nostradamus, Joan of Arc, George Washington Carver, Deng Xiaoping, Henry Ford, and Gary Trudeau!

I may have made a few mistakes, so everyone check for me, ok?
Also, the Nobel Prizes only account for RECENT history, so they shouldn't be used as a means of measure! Just because they're great now doesn't mean that they always have or will be!

P.S.
You mentioned Einstein twice, cheater!

[Leah]

Anti-Semitism has always been there and always will be there.

I have read the first page of replies and would like to point the following fact of history out:

NO race has faced as much abuse, loss, hatred, humiliation, and mass murdering as the Afro-Americans (including any other former Africans forced into slavery) and the native Indian Americans .
(estimated 600,000,000 black human lives lost, in comparison to the estimated 6,000,000 European Jews during WWII)

It seems though a lot easier to develop a lobby when a 'respected, wealthy, educated member of society' , such as Semites (Jews in this case).
Also do certain United States appear to me as if they tent to forget the crimes their own countries wealth, ecconomy and land ownership was build on and found with.

Semites surely need the support of the world to stop racisms,
but even more so Afro-Americans, African immigrants, native Americans

Remember the recent compenstations paid for former forced labourers of concentration- and work-camps (who now live in Eastern Europe)?
American lawyers supported them, and they were right. THe compensation paid by German industry was still humiliating low and injust,
But where are the trials to compensate for the force labour of the generations of slaves, the fomer wealth of the South of US was build on?
Where are the trials to rightfully return native American land to the Indians?

said by a semite :rolleyes:

[xorbie]

I disagree with reperations, especially 150 years off. And also, keep in mind that there were roughly 12 millions Jews in the world before the Holocaust, AFAIK. So that 6 million is incredibly high.

Also, the incredibly high number of Jewish Nobel Prize winners is only partially a genetic thing, Jews also have a culture that places an extremely high value on education.

***
xorbie aka The Wise Grasshopper

[Gregg]

Originally posted by xorbie
I disagree with reperations, especially 150 years off. And also, keep in mind that there were roughly 12 millions Jews in the world before the Holocaust, AFAIK. So that 6 million is incredibly high.

Also, the incredibly high number of Jewish Nobel Prize winners is only partially a genetic thing, Jews also have a culture that places an extremely high value on education.

***
xorbie aka The Wise Grasshopper Absolutely. Imagine if the Arab countries would place as much value on education, other than marksmanship and strap-on bomb making.

[xorbie]

Originally posted by Gregg
Absolutely. Imagine if the Arab countries would place as much value on education, other than marksmanship and strap-on bomb making.

Or on non-violent protest, for example. If the Palestinians wanted freedom from Israel, all they would need is an MLK or Ghandi type figure.

[Gregg]

Originally posted by xorbie
Or on non-violent protest, for example. If the Palestinians wanted freedom from Israel, all they would need is an MLK or Ghandi type figure. Hell, Israel has WANTED to give them their own state for decades! All they need to do is sign an agreement and stick to it, which means no more sending their nutjobs to blow up buses full of kids! But the truth is Arafat and the nutjobs don't want a separate state, they want Israel wiped off the map.

But it's true, it never ceases to gall me when people--even liberals for whom champions of non-violence like MLK, Cesar Chavez, and Ghandi are heroes--argue that the Palestinians have "no choice" but to blow up buses, shoot up wedding parties, and do other such reprehensible shit. Non-violent protest has proven its effectiveness time and time again. All terrorism does is piss people off.

[rfwu]

Originally posted by xorbie
Also, the incredibly high number of Jewish Nobel Prize winners is only partially a genetic thing, Jews also have a culture that places an extremely high value on education.

So do Chinese and Japanese cultures.

[Huzington]

Originally posted by rfwu
Let's see ... influential people ... Kennedy,

Capitalist, could have started WWIII.

Ghengis Khan, Saladin, Julius Cesar,

All three were tyrants.

Socrates,

May have existed.

Nebuchadnezzar,

Yet another tyrant.

Confucius,

His philosophy is inconsistent, shallow, insipid.

Lao Tzu,

See above.

Princess Diana,

Exploiter.

Mohandas Ghandi,

A great man, though too nationalistic.

Napoleon Bonapart,

Tyrant.

Plato,

Father of totalitarianism and therefore detestable.

Martin Luther King Jr.,

A Marxist (not that that is a bad thing).

Buddha,

Crazy superstitionist. Highly detestable.

Mao Zedong,

Liberator of China. Glad you mentioned him.

Adolf Hitler

Tyrant.

Rosa Parks, Muhhamad, Hernando Cortez, Voltaire, Teddy Roosevelt, Cleopatra, Shakespeare, Ben Franklin, Abe Lincoln, Cesar Chavez, Ramses II, Marcus Aurelius, Homer, Peter the Great, Hannibal, Attilla the Hun, Cyrus the Great, Aristotle, Alexander the Great, Crazy Horse, Charles Darwin, John Newton, George Washington, Amelia Earheart, Indra Ghandi, Thomas Paine, Oskar Schindler, Ivan the Terrible, Nostradamus, Joan of Arc, George Washington Carver, Deng Xiaoping, Henry Ford, and Gary Trudeau!

Wow, a lot of tyrants and exploiters. Deng Xiaoping is one of the worst tyrants in history. And all those American capitalists you mentioned.

To sum up: a lot of tyranical and exploitative non-Jews. You have mentioned some of the worst people in history. I am disgusted by the fact that such tyrants and exploiters make you proud to be a non-Jew.

I may have made a few mistakes, so everyone check for me, ok?
Also, the Nobel Prizes only account for RECENT history, so they shouldn't be used as a means of measure! Just because they're great now doesn't mean that they always have or will be!

Your anti-Semitism is truly sickening.

[Huzington]

Originally posted by Leah
Anti-Semitism has always been there and always will be there.

I have read the first page of replies and would like to point the following fact of history out:

NO race has faced as much abuse, loss, hatred, humiliation, and mass murdering as the Afro-Americans (including any other former Africans forced into slavery) and the native Indian Americans .
(estimated 600,000,000 black human lives lost, in comparison to the estimated 6,000,000 European Jews during WWII)

It seems though a lot easier to develop a lobby when a 'respected, wealthy, educated member of society' , such as Semites (Jews in this case).
Also do certain United States appear to me as if they tent to forget the crimes their own countries wealth, ecconomy and land ownership was build on and found with.

Semites surely need the support of the world to stop racisms,
but even more so Afro-Americans, African immigrants, native Americans

Remember the recent compenstations paid for former forced labourers of concentration- and work-camps (who now live in Eastern Europe)?
American lawyers supported them, and they were right. THe compensation paid by German industry was still humiliating low and injust,
But where are the trials to compensate for the force labour of the generations of slaves, the fomer wealth of the South of US was build on?
Where are the trials to rightfully return native American land to the Indians?

said by a semite :rolleyes:

Good post. I agree with you that blacks and Indians have been oppressed. But this is a relatively recent development in history. Jews have been oppressed for over 4000 years.

[Huzington]

Originally posted by xorbie
I disagree with reperations, especially 150 years off. And also, keep in mind that there were roughly 12 millions Jews in the world before the Holocaust, AFAIK. So that 6 million is incredibly high.

(personal insult deleted by moderator)

Also, the incredibly high number of Jewish Nobel Prize winners is only partially a genetic thing, Jews also have a culture that places an extremely high value on education.


Whether it is cultural or genetic is irrelevant. Jews do well, whatever the cause.

[Huzington]

Originally posted by xorbie
Or on non-violent protest, for example. If the Palestinians wanted freedom from Israel, all they would need is an MLK or Ghandi type figure.

Freedom from Israel? From Isreal?? Your anti-Semitism is becoming even more manifest.

[livius drusus]

Originally posted by Huzington
quoted personal insult deleted by moderator[B]

[B]Freedom from Isreal [sic]? From Isreal [sic]?? Your anti-Semitism is becoming even more manifest.

Your insistence on labelling anyone who disagrees with you even in tiny part an anti-semite is as fallacious as it is insulting. Respond to arguments if you are capable of it. Leave your groundless opinions of people's motivations out of it.

[rfwu]

Originally posted by Huzington
Your anti-Semitism is truly sickening.

Some of my best friends are Semites! And apparently, they actually agreed with me! All I am trying to do is to point out that other people have made contributions too!

You are starting to sound more and more bitter as this thread grows. I won't be surprised if you think it's right for Gentiles to be executed just for being Gentiles! (not that you would!):rolleyes:

[Huzington]

Originally posted by livius drusus
Your insistence on labelling anyone who disagrees with you even in tiny part an anti-semite is as fallacious as it is insulting. Respond to arguments if you are capable of it. Leave your groundless opinions of people's motivations out of it.

I always keep motivations out of my arguments . . . but such obvious anti-Semitism must be mentioned. The fact that his argument is anti-Semitic is sufficient to reasonably discredit his argument. And denying the Holocaust is never a good thing. It is anti-Semitism.

[Huzington]

Originally posted by rfwu
Some of my best friends are Semites! And apparently, they actually agreed with me! All I am trying to do is to point out that other people have made contributions too!

Are you aware of the fact that self-hating Jews (anti-Zionists, etc) are not uncommon? I personally know Semites who have been persuaded by anti-Semitic propaganda.

You are starting to sound more and more bitter as this thread grows. I won't be surprised if you think it's right for Gentiles to be executed just for being Gentiles! (not that you would!):rolleyes:

There is nothing wrong with Gentiles. I hate anti-Semitism, not non-Semitism.

[livius drusus]

Originally posted by Huzington
I always keep motivations out of my arguments . . . but such obvious anti-Semitism must be mentioned. The fact that his argument is anti-Semitic is sufficient to reasonably discredit his argument.

I see nothing in his argument that is intrinsically anti-semitic. Feel free to expand on your interpretation instead of going the easy if craven route and resorting to name-calling.

And denying the Holocaust is never a good thing. It is anti-Semitism.

Xorbie never denied the Holocaust. He said that 6 million killed in the Holocaust is a larger percentage of the global Jewish population than the percentage of black people dead because of slavery. You misread a very simple point and insulted him for no reason. You owe xorbie an apology.

[rfwu]

Originally posted by Huzington
There is nothing wrong with Gentiles. I hate anti-Semitism, not non-Semitism.

I hate anti-Semitism too! What a coincidence! I also hate anti-Asian, anti-European, anti-African, anti-American, and anti-<insert race/culture> here.

I'm just curious, I'm not trying to make a point or anything. Are you Jewish?

[Huzington]

Originally posted by rfwu
I hate anti-Semitism too! What a coincidence! I also hate anti-Asian, anti-European, anti-African, anti-American, and anti-<insert race/culture> here.

I'm just curious, I'm not trying to make a point or anything. Are you Jewish?

It is irrelevant whether I am Jewish or not.

[xorbie]

Well I happen to be Jewish (atheist, but nonetheless). And it is relevent because I happen to have many relatives who died in the holocaust. As the mods pointed out, I find it very difficult to misread my point that 6 million Jews died in the holocaust as holocaust denial.

And yes, Israel is killing Palestinians. This is not anti-semitic. This is not racist. The fact is, the Palestinians want their own country and I don't see why they can't have one. I merely pointed out that the best means to acheive this would be through peaceful protest ala MLK or Ghandi.

I do feel you owe me an apology but as it seems you are leaving, I will have to do without. Can't say I will miss you.

[rfwu]

Originally posted by xorbie
Well I happen to be Jewish (atheist, but nonetheless). And it is relevent because I happen to have many relatives who died in the holocaust. As the mods pointed out, I find it very difficult to misread my point that 6 million Jews died in the holocaust as holocaust denial.

I agree, I DO think that the Jews certainly DESERVE the kind of attention that they are getting now. However, I don't agree with Huzington's rather racist view that everyone else is inferior.

QUOTE]Originally posted by xorbie
I do feel you owe me an apology but as it seems you are leaving, I will have to do without. Can't say I will miss you. [/QUOTE]

Ha! Huzington left the discussion! The debate is ours!
Seriously, that guy is really biased! I mean, he actually criticized all the great philosophers! Including Socrates and Plato! And always responded by calling anyone he disagrees with as an anti-semite or racist or whatever!

[Gregg]

Originally posted by xorbie
And yes, Israel is killing Palestinians. This is not anti-semitic. This is not racist. The fact is, the Palestinians want their own country and I don't see why they can't have one. I merely pointed out that the best means to acheive this would be through peaceful protest ala MLK or Ghandi.Xorbie, while I agree that the Palestinians would be better off with peaceful protest, the fact is that they don't really need protests at all, violent or non-violent. All they have to do is stop the suicide bombings. Once that's accomplished, the establishment of a Palestinian state can move forward.

The problem is that there are too many Palestinians whose goal is not a Palestinian state co-existing peacefully side-by-side with Israel, but a Palestinian state built on the ruins of Israel.

If the Palestinians would give up their goal of destroying Israel and disavow violent protest in favor of peaceful protest, they would really not even need peaceful protest. They would be well on their way to having their own state.

Israel is not an evil country. The Israelis are not evil people. They do not enjoy occupying and "oppressing" the Palestinians. I'm sure they would be only too happy to let the Palestinians build their own state so the two nations could prosper peacefully side by side. But that's rather hard to do when the Palestinians keep sending in fanatics with nail bombs strapped around their waists to blow themselves up in buses filled with children.

[xorbie]

Well, yeah. My point is that if the Palestinians who weren't doing the suicide bombings were to join in peaceful protest, it might help things along. And Huzington didn't just leave the debate, he begged to be banned - and was.

I request a moment of silence in his honor...... oh who am I kidding? Whip out the party hats and whipped cream! :cool:

***
xorbie aka The Wise Grasshopper

[CoffeeFiend]

Originally posted by Huzington
Thank you. Jews also have a higher than average IQ.

And asians have the highest IQ avarage.
So you better raplace anti-semitism as the worst crime with racism against asians :p

Personally, I think don't that anti-semitism is any worse or better than any other kind of racism.

[Soul Invictus]

Originally posted by Huzington
Let us see . . . The greatest minds in history -- Jewish minds: Da
Vinci, Spinoza, Einstein, Marx, Wittgenstein, Popper, Neuman,
Einstein, Bohr, Edward Teller., many great revolutionaries, etc.,
etc., etc. According to some sources, Stalin was also part Jewish.
Much evidence above, too, the rather the Nobel prize stuff.

Man. I'm gone for one day and the thread is off to the races! So now he's banned?

Huzington,

I don't think you're able to reply or not, however I'd only want to say this. I don't discount the contributions of the people you've stated. But back to my earlier question, why do you hold such high regard for modern contributors, when there was so much more operating contributors from such an antiquarian age. Is this as far back as you're able to go? No contributors to the original sciences or initial forms of communication?

[Leah]

Originally posted by Huzington
It is irrelevant whether I am Jewish or not.
True, but you are as stubborn! :D (hope this will not be seen as some violation also, or racism, I love our stubbornness!! )

Banned-hard, means he can't even read here anymore, right?
Shame, he seemed like someone interesting. And what a temperament ... :D

:rolleyes: <sigh>

[rfwu]

Originally posted by xorbie
I disagree with reperations, especially 150 years off. And also, keep in mind that there were roughly 12 millions Jews in the world before the Holocaust, AFAIK. So that 6 million is incredibly high.

Half killed off? Wow, that's a lot! I guess they do deserve the respect they get now, maybe even more so! But after doing some research, I found that the indigenous Ainu of Japan have dwindled so much that they are now borderline extinct! There are less than a million of them left in the world now. But they haven't been killed off, just discriminated against for years and years and years!

[xorbie]

Originally posted by rfwu
Half killed off? Wow, that's a lot! I guess they do deserve the respect they get now, maybe even more so! But after doing some research, I found that the indigenous Ainu of Japan have dwindled so much that they are now borderline extinct! There are less than a million of them left in the world now. But they haven't been killed off, just discriminated against for years and years and years!

And that sucks, irrelevant as it is. :(

[rfwu]

Irrelevant? Ok, I guess it is irrelevant. But you've gotta admit, those are pretty bad circumstances.

[SiliconWolf]

Several people have mentioned the numbers of a particular group that were murdered, and I can't say I'm happy about it. I don't think it's appropriate for someone claim that one group is more oppressed than another group because more of them were killed. I despise racism in any form.

I have studied anthropology in Australia and, sadly, I still don't see much hope for improving the lives of the aboriginal people there.

Reading Schindler's Ark nearly brought me to tears. The knowledge of how thoroughly the Nazis hid their vile actions sickens me. They knew it was wrong, yet they kept on sending innocent people to the gas chambers.

Just the mention of the words "Ku Klux Klan" is enough to make my blood boil. The thought that people still behave that way, after 600,000 Americans died to end slavery, makes me disappointed in the entire human race.

There are many, many more examples and each saddens me as much as the others. The only way I can think of to set things right is to make sure these events never happen again. Unfortunately, legislation just doesn't work for changing peoples' minds. Nazism has been banned in Germany for 50 years and there is still trouble with skinheads there.

Until a better idea comes along, I can only lead by example, and continue expressing my distaste for racist attitudes in whatever means are available. If that means alienating a family member, or telling a neighbor they can't come onto my property unless they leave their racial slurs behind, then so be it.

[Leah]

Originally posted by SiliconWolf

Reading Schindler's Ark nearly brought me to tears. The knowledge of how thoroughly the Nazis hid their vile actions sickens me. They knew it was wrong, yet they kept on sending innocent people to the gas chambers.
Little book suggestion: read "Starchildren". It tells the story of children from 1930 to 1945, every aspect of the develpment from being a respected member of society to being nomore than a shaddow of a human being.
BTW, only a minority was killed in gas chambers, the marority died even more cruel.

Just the mention of the words "Ku Klux Klan" is enough to make my blood boil. The thought that people still behave that way, after 600,000 Americans died to end slavery, makes me disappointed in the entire human race.
I very much agree, .... sickening, such organisations.

Nazism has been banned in Germany for 50 years and there is still trouble with skinheads there.
NOt just skin heads. It doesn't need a skin head to make a yid unwanted here (in Germany). Some years back I was threatened and malestered by a civil cervant of the BWB (Federal office for defence technology ..) via phone. Luckily I had taped some of that and the criminal police as well as the Security department of the BWB supported me absolutely. My name stayed out of the press (nice one there again), and the MAD (military defence service) looked into the matter. Mr. Streich (the guy malestering me) got a priston sentence (a mild one) and was degraded in his professional position and pay.
What I am saying here is: the population of Germany still hates us or is at least weary of us,
but the government, police and officials do protect and support us.
I wish the same was the case in the US when Afro-Americans or Native Americans face problems of that kind.