Boy scouts/cub scouts...whatever it's called

[Tigermilk]

Hey everyone

My 6 yr old stepson was desperate to be able to join the cub scouts after seeing all the rope swings, canoeing, camping and all that, so we signed him up. To anyone who has experience of the cub scouts, is there a lot of proselytising going on at the meetings, or is it mostly just the rope-knotting and badge winning stuff? Do they open with prayers etc? I guess I'm just trying to get a handle on what I might have to talk about and explain from my point of view - we've already had a few conversations with theistic slants, mostly to allay fears about stuff heard from other kids (hell stuff, you know).

[Viti]

They have to take an oath involving God...but I think the religiosity of the activities varies from group to group. If the troop leader is a fundie, there may be a lot of god talk.

[Godless Dave]

It varies widely from pack to pack. I'd attend the first meeting with your son. Of course then you'll be asked to volunteer, but what better way to keep an eye on the religious angle?

[scarmig]

It depends on the pack and the leaders. My cub scouts never mentioned God, but my Boy Scout pack met in a church and prayed before every meeting. Except for that one prayer and the meeting place, that was about the only religion we got.

There isn't a secular competitor with the coverage that the Boy/Cub scouts have, so I would say let your boy join, but also volunteer yourself in order to have input.

There are lots of ways you can influence the god aspects right out if you aren't confrontational about it. It should be a good experience for both of you if you manage it right.

[Tigermilk]

First meeting is tomorrow night, having some sort of grillout at the pack leaders' house. I'll pack my fundi-meter, see if it gets any positive hits.

Cheers

[Aethari]

As others have said, the 'Fundy Factor' depends largely on who is running the pack/troop. However, it is BSA policy not to accept non-believers as either members or leaders-- so I wouldn't mention it to them unless it's absolutely necessary. Enjoy :D

~Aethari

[BornAgainAtheist]

I'm the Committee Chairman for one of our local Packs. We recruit from a public school but are chartered by a Presbyterian church. The church provides us our meeting space. There aren't any religious overtones to any of our activities except when the Pastor says grace at the Blue & Gold Banquet. If the Pastor was more involved with the Pack then there would probably be more god speak.

Scouts do require a "promise" to "due my duty to God" but that's about it. They also have a number of medals that can be earned for different religions. These aren't required for advancement and I would say that may 10 out of 30 boys have actually earned theirs.

Good luck

[butswana]

I can't recall much god talk from my scouting days, and our troop was based out of a Mormon church. I do remember this old codger talking about not taking long hot showers(which would result in self-abuse) at a massive jamboree in Kirkland Ohio though.

[Comquirk]

I went to Cubs/Scouts out of a United Church, and there wasn't any religious talk outside of the process to earn one's Religion Badge (Which was probably the first time I sort of Questioned religion: The minister asked "Who is God?" and I said "He's the God of the Christian Religion" to which she replied, with a mild look "No, God is god of everything").

Of course, as I've said before, the United Church is right above Unitarians in terms of belief in God.

[SiliconWolf]

Some packs/troops are run by Mormons or a few other religious groups and tend to have more of a religious focus, but they are in the minority in most of the US. Most scout organizations, even the ones that meet in churches, are so secular that I was surprised by the prohibitions of atheists. I was an atheist scoutmaster for 3+ years and no one even asked. The occasional prayer (grace, etc.) is all you will find at most Scouting events. Depending on the group, most members probably won't even go to church on Sunday mornings of weekend campouts (in Boy Scouts; Cubs don't do much camping).

[Trecker]

Ya, it all depends upon the Den, Pack, Troop leaders. While too much of the official activities the Boy Scouts seem to present now a days is watered down pap, some of the activities are still fun. The camping can still be good stuff. Except for the God, Gays, and sometimes overdoing the Country thing, many of the values are good and altruistic and actually the seeds of Secular Humanism. "It all depends upon the leaders." I was an eagle scout when I was a boy. Scouting was very good for me. My son has been in Boy Scouts for more than a year and has not yet earned his Tenderfoot badge and seems to have little interest in the badges and ranks. I want him to ultimately do whatever HE wants. Anyway, scouting is a great diversion from the computer. My guess is if you can pick a relatively active pack and den (for cub scouts), with normal good willed leaders, your son will have an overall positive experience.

[Gothic_J]

depends on the troop. my troop says reverent and god in the ceremonies, but then proceeded with topics of chicks, killing people, and lighting fires.

[Viti]

The Boy Scouts here in Vegas are dominated by Mormons...we have large LDS population.

[Debbie T]

I would be having serious problems with sending my child through the cub/boy scouts. The stand they have taken against groups of people is not something I want to endorse by saying its ok my child goes through the program as long as it doesn't affect my child as an individual. But some children are affected by the stand this group takes.

I am glad I don't have a son to have to make that kind of decision. It is too bad that a secular version where everyone is welcome regardless of religion or non religion or sexual orientation or for what ever reason, couldn't be formed.

[Buddrow_Wilson]

I am very much against the whole program. With the unwielding anti-gay, anti-agnostic/atheist, hyper-patriotism crap, the idea of sending a child there makes me shudder. It would be nice if there was a popular, similar program available that was purely secular, but really, if you want to take your kids camping with some of their friends and a few responsible adults, its not that hard of an event to organize. Hell, maybe the girls can go too! I've heard rumors of girls and boys doing generic outdoor activities together without the head of Satan emerging from the firey depths to devour all.

[SiliconWolf]

Originally posted by Debbie T
The stand they have taken against groups of people is not something I want to endorse by saying its ok my child goes through the program as long as it doesn't affect my child as an individual.

Originally posted by Buddrow_Wilson
With the unwielding anti-gay, anti-agnostic/atheist, hyper-patriotism crap, the idea of sending a child there makes me shudder.

I forgot to mention that these are the exact reasons I now refuse to have anything to do with the organization.

Unfortunately, I think the rank and file members know very little about the extent of these nasty policies. When they do know, as in the case of the gay issue which has gotten press lately, they seem to keep reacting based on uneducated fear. I can't help wondering if more education would make a difference or not.

I am still waiting for a sign of hope that an organization to which I gave 13 years' service will stop trying to discriminate against me and whomever else they are afraid of.

[Gothic_J]

oddly enough, my boyscout troop had more homosexual activity then anything else Ive ever seen. and that includes hanging with several gay friends of mine.

[Trecker]

Originally posted by Debbie T
I would be having serious problems with sending my child through the cub/boy scouts. The stand they have taken against groups of people is not something I want to endorse by saying its ok my child goes through the program as long as it doesn't affect my child as an individual. But some children are affected by the stand this group takes.

I am glad I don't have a son to have to make that kind of decision. It is too bad that a secular version where everyone is welcome regardless of religion or non religion or sexual orientation or for what ever reason, couldn't be formed.

A much worse situation is sending your child to school, public or private! And these teachers have your children 5 days a week for the entire day, not occasional camping and a meeting once a week.

Most of the scout leadership is done by people who are not being paid and really want to be scouting. They are generally well intentioned people. But people in general are just so stupid. So it all depends upon the leadership anyway. I personally deplore the official stands of BSA, but the unofficial ones aren't too bad.

[Buddrow_Wilson]

Originally posted by Trecker
A much worse situation is sending your child to school, public or private! And these teachers have your children 5 days a week for the entire day, not occasional camping and a meeting once a week.

Most of the scout leadership is done by people who are not being paid and really want to be scouting. They are generally well intentioned people. But people in general are just so stupid. So it all depends upon the leadership anyway. I personally deplore the official stands of BSA, but the unofficial ones aren't too bad.

But even if your local troop is more tolerant, you are still basically supporting the organizations stance by default if you participate.

[Godless Dave]

Tigermilk, are there any Camp Fire USA (http://www.campfire.org/start.asp) groups in your area? They have a non-discrimination policy.

[Trecker]

Originally posted by Buddrow_Wilson
But even if your local troop is more tolerant, you are still basically supporting the organizations stance by default if you participate.

ya, I suppose. I think the protest in this case is too far removed to be significant. Given a more tolerant troop and more enlightened leadership within the troop; I think this battle is better approached for what is best for our children. My POV here could turn on a dime if I actually experienced Scouts aggressively pursuing their Gay, God, and Country agenda. It actually appears that BSA is in significant decline now. I personally think mostly due to the watering down and sissifying of the entire experience. The leaders say it is due to competition from all the other activities offered boys today. Being as most of them do little to get off their dead asses to keep things going, I see no other possible outcome. Perhaps Campfire USA is a better option.

[Buddrow_Wilson]

Originally posted by Trecker
It actually appears that BSA is in significant decline now. I personally think mostly due to the watering down and sissifying of the entire experience. The leaders say it is due to competition from all the other activities offered boys today.

That and the fact that Boy Scouts lost their "cool" status somewhere around the 1930s.

[The Other Michael]

You could always start a Young Pioneers group.

cheers,
Michael

[Tigermilk]

Thanks for the replies everyone - it all went off well. No prayers or anything, the only mention of god was in the pledge. The kids all had a great time, which is what matters most of all.

As for the points noted above (the BSA stance on various social issues) - I think I'm just going to keep my eyes and ears peeled for anything dubious.

Cheers!

[Gothic_J]

oddly enough, I met 4 eagle scouts at a fetish faire. they all said, independtly, they got into bdsm because of learning knots in the scouts.

[Trecker]

Originally posted by Gothic_J
oddly enough, I met 4 eagle scouts at a fetish faire. they all said, independtly, they got into bdsm because of learning knots in the scouts.

Ha Ha!:D that is funny. But how do they account for all the rubber suits and zippers?

[jayh]

Often the god/antigay stuff is pretty quiet during the recruitment phase. They're on their best behavior.

http://www.scoutingforall.org/


(Note the attention given the theism issue on this website, unfortunately news coverage seems to be only about the gay issue)

[Gothic_J]

Originally posted by Trecker
Ha Ha!:D that is funny. But how do they account for all the rubber suits and zippers?

a lot happens at camping trips you dont know about ;);)

[ohwilleke]

Boy Scouts proper is worse than Cub Scouts (I went all the way from cub scout to Eagle scout). Among other things, Cub Scouts is far less paramilitary. The reality of the situation is that a lot of kids drop out as time passes and other activities arive.

Still BSA is far more likely to eventually relent on the gay score than on the religion score. Only a narrow majority of church sponsors are anti-gay, while a large percentage of religious.