My name is User...and I goto a Christian School

[User]

Hi, I'm a sixteen year old atheist, and I have a big problem.

For the last few years I've been going to a Fundamentalist Christian school. Up until recently I haven't had much of a problem with my school. I disagreed with them, but their beliefs were more of a minor annoyance than a serious problem. But this year everything has changed. A new principal has taken over the school, and has turned the religious element up several notches. The guy is seriously a religious nut case. He actually refers to non-Christians as pagans. And the worst part is that he teaches one of my classes!!! It's supposed to be an ancient history class, but he has distorted it into a "Jesus through the ages" class. I don't know if I'll be able to survive it. Our first assignment was to read a C.S. Lewis packet, where it's stated that Naturalists (as opposed to Supernaturalists) have no free will....

The other class that bothers me is my Theology class. It's headed by a firebrand Southern Baptist who hates me. This year he's taken off the gloves and is seriously trying to shove religious vomit down everyone's throats. I've been at school for two days and I've already had a confrontation with him. He's already filled the class in that our final assignment is going to be a statement of our faith. Right now I'm a closet Atheist, and know that I'll be red-flagged if I write down my real thoughts.

I don't know what to do! My school is a nazi Christian concentration camp which has become increasingly cult like. I know that I am probably gonna have to leave, but it's hard. I've made some good friends, and it will be hard to leave them behind. It's a big world out there, and I've become so used to this school that I'm almost scared to leave.

Anyways, thanks for reading. I needed a place to vent. Drop any ideas you have, especially if you have be in a similar siuation.

[livius drusus]

Hi User and welcome to IIDB. I'm going to move this thread to our Secular Lifestyle forum where you can get some quality nontheistic support. GRD is more of an impersonal discussion forum, and I think your issues could use the protection from preaching that SL provides.

Best of luck to you.

[xorbie]

Whoa :eek:

Fortunatly, my parents let me out of my religious Jewish private school after 7th grade (which would be when I would have to start wearing all sorts of things I was not so comfortable with).

This sounds a lot worse though. I assume your parents would not be open to you switching schools. My suggestion to you would be to fail the Theology class miserably, unless this would mean a very tense home environment. See colleges rarely use Theological classes to calculate GPA, so it won't matter if you get a D. Also, you can write your essay about how you stood up for your beliefs and refused to compromise your integrity. Colleges lick that up, man.

I know it sucks, but at least try to see the positive. If something makes you really uncomfortable, try to find someone who you can talk to, this often helps (I might consider a pet). Also, try talking to your parents.

[User]

Well, I talked to my parents. My dad (who's agnostic) said that we all knew this day would come and that "it's time for you to get the f*ck out of that school." My dad went as far as to compare my school to nazi germany and my new principal's rise to power to be like that of Adolf's. I hope I've made it clear that my father is not the problem.

My mother is a devout Christian, but not a fundamentalist. She knows I'm an atheist and that I should leave the school...so what's the problem?

There seems to be no other option! The public schools in my area are tougher than tough, and have some of the most abysmal SAT scores imaginable. Many of the private schools I'd like to attend are WAY out of my price range. Honestly, we wouldn't be able to afford my current school without the financial assitance they give me. Homeschooling is an option, yet it seems unrealistic to start when I'm on the verge of entering college (and thanks for the essay idea). Right now we're in a state of utter confusion. And I still have to face all the Fear and Loathing each day when I step through the front door, and my principal shakes my hand with his iron fist and flashes a toothy smile.

[The Other Michael]

hello User,

I have to wonder just how conducive that environment will be to your learning much that will prepare you for college (unless you are planning on going to Oral Roberts University).

I think you'll find it easier to swap schools before too much of the semester goes by - the longer you wait, the more chance that everyone has already fallen into groups, and the harder it will be to catch up on the course work.

Homeschooling might be an option for this school year while you figure out what to do for the next school year - presuming that your parents (with your assistance) can actually do the teaching job.

If you are a good student you should be able to surpass what you'd be taught in school, since there is often a lot of repetition and teaching to the lowest common denominator. It will take discipline on your part, and you'll have to get along with your parents well enough to be with them all day long.

How much of the SAT scores at those public schools is due to poor teaching, and how much is due to students who may not feel much urgency to learn? Maybe you could go there and practice the art of keeping a very low profile and survive the two years.

Good luck,
Michael

[User]

Up until recently I thought I was getting a good education, but the new management seemed to usher in all this bad craziness. Either that or the fact that they're expecting more mature religious viewpoints from me since I'm older now.

I study quite a bit outside of school, and would go so far as to say that 75% of learning takes place outside the classroom. Homeschooling sounds like a reasonable idea, but it seems like I'd be isolating myself from a large social environment. Plus, I'm not the most disciplined person in the world.

Public school really seems to be out of the question. After talking to multiple friends who attend various area schools, I think the schools subsist on a steady diet of both poor teaching and zero will to learn. Both immediate public schools are cest pools of gangs, violence and drugs. Really, I don't feel like it's healthy to attend an institution where actual thought would have to go into my physical well being (read: am I gonna get jacked today?)

The two real options are switching schools or attending my current school and treating it like a job. I'm not too wild about either idea.

[DarkWraith]

Ouch.

If public schools are that bad around you, and there are no alternative private schools it might be better to try to stick it out, if you can. If you absolutely can't bear it, do what Michael said and decide what you're going to do fast. The sooner you switch to another school or to homeschooling, the easier the transition will be.

[reprise]

I don't know whether such an option exists in the US, but here a significant number of students choose to complete the final two years of high school at a TAFE college (these were originally technical colleges intended to teach trades to those who left school at a young age, but their curriculums are now very broad), or to do at least some units of study at a TAFE. The nearest US equivalent with which I'm familiar is community colleges.

Similarly, we have a programme here called Open High School, which was originally established for pregnant teenagers but is now more often used by students wishing to study a subject not offered at their local school. It's very similar to the distance education offered by universities. Written and taped material is sent by mail to the student and assignments are sent back to the programme for marking and comment.

At 16, less and less of your socialising is going to be taking place within the school environment. It's good that you recognise the need to socialise with your peers, and I suspect that you won't have too much difficulty thinking of ways to make this happen.

Have you looked into the possibility of scholarships or some other kind of financial assistance being offered by the other private schools which you'd consider attending?

[User]

We are currently looking into a local community college, and that could very well be a third possiblity.

The school I really want to go to offers zero financial aid. I think I'm gonna have to sit down and devote time to searching for other possible learning environments.

But is their anyone who has been in a similar situation?

[Viti]

User, may I ask what city you live in? We may have some more ideas or at least a place to research...many cities have magnet schools they do not advertise. Catholic school is also usually more liberal than any fundie type.

[Arkus 02]

Damn! I'm in almost the exact same situation.

I'm 15, and atheist in an ultraconservative catholic school, and I have no way out. Unfortunately, my parents wont allow me out cause im in the best college prep school in the region :(. And my femily is a great example of why biblebots shouldn't be allowed to interbreed. I'm gonna have to stick out the rest of my time in this dump, but I wish you best of luck.

Catholic schools are a conspiracy; because hell doesn't really exist, catholics feel obligated to create one.

[catalyst]

Catholic schools are a conspiracy; because hell doesn't really exist, catholics feel obligated to create one.

I have nothing to contribute but I do wish to add that that was very well said.

[reprise]

As the federal government here contributes substantial amounts of money towards the private school system, religion-operated private schools here aren't generally too over-the-top in terms of cramming religion down their students' throats.

[Samnell]

Ow. I can relate, User. I'm trying to pursue a teaching degree at my local community college through a program they have that uses an evangelical school from down south of here. I haven't had either of their required theology courses yet, but I've been to two sessions of my psychology of education course and it's clear the teacher isn't going to refrain from plugging Jesus at least once a period.

There hasn't been any religion shoving yet, but he doesn't know I'm an atheist either. I'm sort of wondering how long I can keep that up since I know most of the students in the class from previous community college courses where I wasn't at all shy about sharing it.

Good luck to you.

[Godless Dave]

I don't know how things are in your area, User, but often even the worst public schools have a way to identify the smart, motivated kids and get them into classes with the other smart, motivated kids and the one or two decent teachers they have. I doubt the education you are currently getting is any good, and it might actually look bad when applying to college.

[Marruk]

I'm going to give you the best advice I ever recieved in Highschool (too bad I was a senior when I recieved it).

You are too smart for your school. Take your SATs, ACT's, and AP exams and start going to community college. You may also want to take your GED. This way you could possibly be done with college by age 20. You sound like you are smart enough to do this, and it sounds like you are more mature then the schools that you can go to. You will have more fun going to a community collge, more challenge, and meet more like minded people even though they will be 2 years older than you minimum (don't let this scare you, a fairly large range of ages attend college). You will also have a much wider variety of classes to choose from.

Good luck to you.

[AspenMama]

Keep us informed! You should be able to apply for some scholarships in your area, no matter your income or background. Go to the biggest local library and look up books listing foundations. Forget the internet for this research, or at least contact me first-- there's a lot of nonsense out there. If you have a particular interest, say in science, and are female, you may be able to pin down certain scholarships. Also, any community college should have a financial aid office with these foundation guide books listed. I'd be happy to offer additional advice in this area as I write grants for a living. Just email me.

If it turns out you stay where you are, we are here to help you formulate your arguments and strengthen your position if need be, or just to offer secular advise!

---AspenMama

[RufusAtticus]

I agree. You should consider taking the GED and moving on to a Junior college for two years. Then after that time, transfer to a larger university and complete you degree(s).

And if are still going to that Fundi School, you need to use your last day to piss everyone off.

[jayh]

Originally posted by User


Public school really seems to be out of the question. After talking to multiple friends who attend various area schools, I think the schools subsist on a steady diet of both poor teaching and zero will to learn. Both immediate public schools are cest pools of gangs, violence and drugs. Really, I don't feel like it's healthy to attend an institution where actual thought would have to go into my physical well being (read: am I gonna get jacked today?)



Reputation hype and reality are often quite different. Many kids make it through even 'tough' schools and bad teachers are not always an issue if you have a will to learn. I find the stories somewhat questionable that all the local schools are too dangerous to be in.

A climate of fear of the outside world is often one of the subtle themes of religious schools, it helps keeps the kids in line.

[Jobar]

I was in a similar situation when I was your age- luckily the school was not as extreme as what you are having to deal with. I was able to stay 'in the closet' with little problem, as I was willing to do things like say the Lord's Prayer every morning without making any comments.

You say that your atheism is unknown- is silence an option? Just parrot the answers you know they want on the tests, and keep your opinions and lack of belief concealed. I hate to recommend lying- and sometimes just holding your tongue qualifies as lying, make no mistake- but in an environment like the one you describe, that might be your easiest option. If you think the education you are getting is as good as any other available to you where you are, I would consider gritting your teeth and bearing the godly nonsense- then come here to vent. Talk it out with your dad, too- he sounds pretty cool. We've seen others come here in similar situations, who don't have anyone like him to help out- so try to remember that your situation is not nearly as bad as it *could* be.

One more thing. From the quality of your writing, you are well above average intelligence- plenty of adults do not express themselves with the facility you show. Finding II and being willing to post here also speaks highly of your good sense, and sensibility. I think you'll do all right. Keep your chin up, and your eyes open- and, if in doubt of what to say, your mouth shut!

[Godless Dave]

While I think you should take a closer look at public school, I think dropping out, taking your GED, and doing a year of community college might be worth investigating as well. Don't do anything drastic until you've done your research. The fact that your parents are behind you is a big plus. We have had several teens on this board who were forced by their parents to stay in a fundy Christian school.

[geniph]

Originally posted by jayh
A climate of fear of the outside world is often one of the subtle themes of religious schools, it helps keeps the kids in line.

I'm glad you said that, Jay. I work for a large public school district, and some of our schools have a dreadful reputation, particularly with those pushing vouchers. While it is true there are many "students" who are just marking time there because the law requires it, it is also true that motivated students can find classes to challenge them and teachers who will support them. Believe me, the teachers are only too happy to find students who actually WANT to study.

If you qualify, AP classes in high schools, even the worst schools, very rarely have the real troublemakers in them (well, except for the computing classes, but that's a different breed of troublemaker).

[xorbie]

Oh jeez, I can't believe I totally forgot about community college. I would surely go with that if at all possible. Colleges also lap that stuff up.

And not that I want to turn this into a getting into college thread, but be sure to tour the campus like 8 times, go to all the overnights they have, drop in (or at least say you will) when they visit your local Mariott, etc

Apparently, not doing this will get you rejected by colleges, as two of my friends sadly found out (well, not so sadly, they both ended up off the wait list at Ivy League schools, but man they were depressed for a while).

Anyway, back to your situation. I would go to community college and take whatever classes sound interesting to you. And this is important, so listen: take as few classes as possibly in whatever you are planning to major in. At the really good schools, it is better to take their classes, especially if you need to build on it (like your major). I am glad to hear your parents are behind you, as mine were behind me. It should really facilitate the transition. Too bad you don't live where I did, because I had a really good public school to switch into.

[User]

Thanks for all the responses. I'm glad that I'm not alone in this experience. For the time being I'm going to stay at the school, and attempt to function by taking on a moderate Christian persona. I'm in conflict over this decision (frankly I find it to be dishonest) yet I don't want to play the role of the token contrarian every single day. I am going to have to shroud myself in silence. Funny thing was today I was in my "Jesus through the ages" class with the new principal, and he was spewing some of the most distorted reasoning and logic I've ever heard. I kept to silence. But after class I received various sarcastic remarks for my lack of participation.

I got in trouble in another class for mentioning Noam Chomsky (it was a reflex, honest ;)). This teacher teaches two classes, one that is a major course. Our conversation fell into po-mo philosophy. I must have really alarmed her, because she announced to the class, "Children now don't you worry, this young man has come to the right place with these questions. You are in good hands now." She has probably added me to some Index of possible freethinkers, and I've already joked with friends that I'm going to get assinated before the school year ends.

Another thing is that my dad doesn't want to hear me vent at all. It's only day 3 and he wants me to "stop bitchin'". Oddly, my devout Christian mother wants me to vent all I want at home. I guess she thinks I have to do it somewhere, and it shouldn't be in an ordained minister's office who likes to touch male students a lot (you know the usual hugging and massaging that teachers are expected to do).

But yeah thanks for the threads. I'll keep the board informed.

[SLD]

Well there's a lot of good advice already been said, but what about moving to a locale not too far away that has a decent school system. I don't know the environment in every school district in the Country, but in my neck of the woods (the bible belt believe it or not) the public schools are fantastic - and indeed the private schools can't attract students from our suburb because the schools do such an excellent job. Now part of the issue is that we pay a very high property tax and live in the most affluent suburb in the state (which ain't saying much), and as such we can afford to make our public schools decent. 10 miles north of here and it's a different story - but still not as bad as you described your public schools. So can you move 10 miles and find a public school that wouldn't be so bad?

Also, I'm curious. I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that you are not the only freethinker in your school. These schools have a way of backfiring in their teachings. Sure enough, there are others who think like you, but you may not ever find out until you get away from it. Like you, they'll be deep in the closet.

SLD

[User]

I think moving over this issue is a step too far. I may not live in an affluent area, but I like my neighborhood.

As for whether I'm alone in my beliefs at my school...ya know I've really wondered about that from time to time. I've looked at a few of my friends, and have been skeptical over whether they hold to this fanatical dogma (read: Do you guys seriously believe in this sh*t)? Yet time and time again it has come out that they are definitely professors of the faith (and disturbingly hard-lined literalists as well :( ).

There still are a few people I wonder about. I have this friend who comes from the most militant Christian upbringing you can imagine. His father is a pastor in the Christian Reformed Church (literal all the way). His mother is a teacher at my fundie school. I'd expect him to be really religious, yet I've never, ever heard him mention any sort of religion ever. I once said to him "WWJD?" and he replied, "World Wide Jelly Doughnut?"

And I wonder....

[Defiant Heretic]

You might consider making a stand on some issue like evolution, without letting them know that you're an atheist. We have people here who can support you in that. That way, you wouldn't be totally dishonest, and it might let the other closet freethinkers know where you stand.

[RufusAtticus]

User, be honest with these people. They're not worth lying to. Whatever crap they try to throw at you, we have people in E/C, GRD, and Politics that can help you frustrate them.

[Bright Life]

Because of my "beliefs," it was seen fit to send me to Cathlic school in 4th grade.

Mummy Dearest was an uber-fundy and wanted me to go to the local xian cult school, but my dad thought that I could benefit from the catholic school academic environment. Also, he wouldn't let her send me to the xian "school" because their teachers weren't even certified.

The first day I was there, I went to the all school mass. Having gone through this at fundy church, I got in line for the Jeezit and Grape Juice (I'd found it easier to take the low quality snack than to make a stink).

Sister Holy Hand Grenade saw what I did and said to me:

SHHG: You're not Catholic, are you?

me: no ma'am

SHHG: Then you cannot take part in the Holy Communion.

me (smart-ass 9yr old): Why, is it Catholic Brand Jesus Christ?

This resulted in a hard smack across the face, and one year of an adult constantly making life hard for a child.

I continued the smart-ass bit for the rest of the year. It was requested that I not return for 5th grade. :D

[User]

Now I don't lie about beliefs. I never mention god, I never pray, I don't sing hymns, etc.

Glad that I can find support here, both emotionally and philosophically. I'm pretty confident in my atheism, and can refute most god "proofs." I'm getting deeper into philosophy right now, and am learning all I can about it.

But I have really been screwed over by my school when it comes to Evolution. I've been forcefed the usual Creation "Science" tripe. Recently, my dad gave me "The Blind Watchmaker" by Richard Dawkins, and Darwin's "Origin of Species." I've added them to my stack of must read books.

Evolution is RARELY brought up. It's already been covered, and I didn't start anything cause of a certain firebrand Southern Baptist who's "bible belt" is made from the skin of Satan himself.

I (try to) keep a low profile in any religious oriented class, but I haven't lied about any beliefs.

[Bright Life]

I applaud you on not compromising your beliefs. Luckily, your parents allow you this luxury. Unfortunately, all of us have not had this experience.

I made my occassional smart-ass remarks as a kid, and they where dealt with quite harshly. Were I to have embarassed my uber-fundy mother in front of the church by not taking the sacrament, I would have been dealt with even more violently.

Personally, I look at it like this: If the Spanish Inquisitor had me on the rack and said accept Jesus or I'll rip your arms off, I'm going to go with the Jesus thing. I mean what could happen? Will I go to hell for lying? ;) Obviously, I'm not really going to convert...It's just self preservation.

That being said, I'm a grown-up now and I live in a "free" country. No one can force me to say I believe in anything (legally).

And thus, my diatribe ends.

[Proxima Centauri]

Kids still at school should be really careful before causing trouble with adult Christian Cretins. The teachers haven't a clue what's rational when it comes to religion. Still they DO know how to make life hard for young Infidels. Concentrate on working hard and getting good grades. Get to College or University if you can. That way you can later get good jobs and can see to it that Infidels are treated fairly at least where you work .
When it comes to College or University it could be worth while to look for a College or University which already has an Atheist/Freethinking Society. That way you can meet other students who agree with you. If your school and your family are narrow minded believers you'll love the freedom. Other Americans can advise you about Colleges or Universities which teach your subject well and also have good Freethinking Societies. If you are lucky you may meet and date someone really special who is a freethinker like you. Marriages between Christians and Freethinkers are often happy. Marriages between folks who agree over religion are even more often happy.
We have any number of threads here from Freethinkers who want their kids taught to think rationally. Then their spouse, their parents in law and sometimes their own parents want their kids taught to be unthinkinking Christian sheep.
:banghead:
If you date people who agree with you about Freethinking you at least won't have that trouble.

[Proxima Centauri]

Originally posted by Arkus 02
Damn! I'm in almost the exact same situation.
I'm 15, and atheist in an ultraconservative catholic school, and I have no way out. Unfortunately, my parents wont allow me out cause im in the best college prep school in the region
Catholic schools are a conspiracy; because hell doesn't really exist, catholics feel obligated to create one.

When you get to College or University make sure its a cool place where they tolerate atheism. It will be best if there alreadly is an atheist/humanist society there.

[NearNihil Experience]

If you are in a Xtian School, you are not getting a quality education. You spending your effort on playing dumb(mute) and not actively engaging people in discourse...no matter what the subject. If you are the young infidel you sound to be, you need engagement with people willing to enter educational discourse with you...being afraid to share your thoughts for fear of consequences is not mentally healthy or educational.

It sounds like you really don't belong there and you and your parents know it. And if the administration of the school knew it, they wouldn't want you there either...and they will do all they can to make you miserable if they find out. Fundies are m iserable fucks with nothing better to do than threaten and coerce others by implied threats against your well being and future by use of their position.

Keep your head down and mouth shut until you find a way out. Money sounds like a big issue...trust me I understand. And public schools aren't that bad(I'm assumming you're in America). You take away from them what you put into them...they don't have the time or money to forcefeed you stuff like private and religious schools.

Another suggestion, find some friends like you in your community, you'll probably find some older persons who might suprise you at how much you agree with.

Keep studying philosophy and really try to find a good college or university. primary and secondary schools are crap anyway. If you dont know the basics of life, the universe, and everything by 16...you're probably doomed anyway...or a fucking fundie.
Everything else comes with experience. College will provide you with a real education and alot of opportunities you will like.
You may not have money now for school, but the government will feed you money just to go to college.

Keep up you spirits and don't get discouraged. Sound like your Dad might be a sourse of understanding and help, and Mom sounds like she care about you, not what you believe.
Ask your parents for help what you can. And they will probably help what they can. You sound clever... you should be able to think of some solution.

Good luck to ya. BTW, I'm enjoying our discussion of Morals w\o God. Not often one finds an atheist who tries to be moral for the betterment of the world...most of aren't willing to look past how stuff affects only us.
Maybe your age? I was a maniac at 16, you sound pretty level headed, if not a little, very little naive(read, idealistic).

World needs more of you man. If we had a world full of idealists, we'd have an ideal world.:D

rock on.
josh

[User]

I'm slowly bringing my secular humanism to the classroom...hope I don't get bible belted right up the ass :eek:....

It's funny how all of my friends outside of school are apatheists. Doesn't seem like anyone cares about God outside of the people in my school.

It's really funny how you perceive me as idealistic cause in real life I'm more of an angry cynic (product of a Christian education ;)). I guess deep down I want the best for the world, and I want to protect it from people like me :).

I've long supported po-mo philosophy as right in many respects. But we gotta find a way to live together peacefully or face extinction. It's getting down to the wire, and it's time for people to see themselves in their fellow man. And to get up off their knees, and destroy their idols!

[NearNihil Experience]

"It's funny how all of my friends outside of school are apatheists. Doesn't seem like anyone cares about God outside of the people in my school."

I really think the majority of people are apatheists. or at least skeptical or private about their beliefs. BUt its always the oudest that get heard.

"It's really funny how you perceive me as idealistic cause in real life I'm more of an angry cynic (product of a Christian education ). "
God damn internet is so anonynmus and impersonal. It easy to get a skewed impression.

"I guess deep down I want the best for the world, and I want to protect it from people like me . "

he he...i catch myself saying that about myself too. Lately I have been trying what's best for me, cause I realized I really can't do anything to hurt the world. so I might as well get a little ahead ...

"But we gotta find a way to live together peacefully or face extinction."
eh...maybe...

"It's getting down to the wire, "
Wire!!!?? , what wire???!! I scared. :eek:

"and it's time for people to see themselves in their fellow man."
Sorry dude, not gay.:p (couldn't resist the joke)

"And to get up off their knees, and destroy their idols!"

Like reason and emotion!!!!;)

[Buffman]

Please take a few minutes to review the wonderful information available at the URL below and then bookmark the page for quick reference.

http://www.infidels.org/library/index.shtml