If there is no God in your opinion, why are you on this forum?

[Whispers]

If there is no God in your opinion, why are you on this forum?

This is not meant to start a flame war, I promise. Its just something that intrigues me greatly. There are countless thousands of forums on the net offering everything from a diddle eyed joe to a .....

If you are a confirmed atheist, what is it about this site that keeps bringing you back? Obviously I can imagine it is nice conversing with others of a similar belief, its just that in a strange way it seems as if argueing with theists is a bit of a sport here. When one speaks, and especially if what they say fits into the fundie stereotype, they are jumped on from a big height. Its amusing to me =)

Seriously though, for those that post regularly and spend good time on here, what is it about the forum that holds your interest. Its not that I cannot see reasons why it might, I am just curious as to what it is that draws you back time and time again? What is it about argueing against something that you don’t believe in, that uses so much of your time?

Are you all secretly hoping to be converted? (joke) :p

[Kvalhion]

This has been asked many times before, and the most obvious answer for me is that religion, more pointedly those who believe in religion, seek to impose their beliefs upon me and the society we live in. We cannot simply ignore it as if it doesn't exist or impact us. Like it or not, religious issues affect everyone, not just those who endorse the religious views.

As far as 'sport' in debunking theists ill conceived logic, I would say it is more frustrating to hear the same illogical, unrational thoughts over and over. Even so, discussing such things can help us to understand and learn more about why we lack belief in gods.

Personally I have learned a lot about religion and religious issues over the years that I've browsed and participated in this board. I can safely say that such issues are not presented in the same manner on other forums, especially religious forums who censor anything they do not agree with.

Obviously it is nice to know there are like minded people out there. However your analogy is more like asking a slave why they are concerned about slavery if they don't believe in it.

[Mullibok]

I just like the discussion here, thinking about the debating and who's right and wrong for what reason. Same reason I like politics most likely.

[markfiend]

We're all part of the Great Satanic Conspiracy to drive all Christians to renounce their faith.

Heh. Speaking personally, I enjoy trying to understand the world around me. A lot of people in this world believe in a God of one kind and another, and for the life of me I can't really understand why.

OK I can see that religions provide social support for their members, comfort for the bereaved, and all sorts of social benefits, but I still can't figure out why that has to be linked to a belief system that (to me) looks little better than superstition.

So I try to find explanations of this behaviour that make sense to me. And despite not finding any so far, I keep trying. Call it an attemt at empathy.

[Whispers]

Fair point. When views are being espoused which are blatantly aggressive and cause further seperation among men, we must reflect, talk about and strengthen the other side of the coin. Hopefully this goes way to adding some balance to the mix.

Whilst I believe in God, I do not support those that claim their way is the only way, and there is only one route to truth. This kind of viewpoint exposes the idea of seperation, which is blatantly false. People that have got caught up in the words of the scriptures, rather than what the words are trying to point to, can sometimes take their strength of conviction too far. It is the way of things.

Its just that if you are a strong atheist and perhaps you feel that there is only one life to lead, what percentage of your life will you give to debating the concept of something that you don’t believe exists? We must be carefull not to think too long about fairies, if you know what I mean.

QUOTE---Obviously it is nice to know there are like minded people out there. However your analogy is more like asking a slave why they are concerned about slavery if they don't believe in it.

I suppose so. However, slaves might not believe in the concept of slavery as being a good thing, but they most certainly would believe in the existence of slavery as a reality in their lives.

[Vicar Philip]

I enjoy reading the dialogue of people much more intelligent than myself. Not only do I learn new words, meanings, and concepts, but if you pay attention you get a first class education in Logic 101 for free!

And yes, I will admit.... it is fun to see the occasional theist shot down by a wall of logic. :D

[brighid]

This forum is a platform for education not only for the atheist, but the theist as well. There are so many facets to religious thoughts and the various Gods of ancient and modern times, and many of us find those facets interesting.

Yes, at times it is sporting fun to dissect the illogical arguments of theism and/or theists. This, and other forums, provide one with the opportunity to improve their intellectual and debating skills because the issue of the existence of an actual God will come up at some point, or many times in ones lifetime. Accurate knowledge of those many subjects is important when we must battle ignorance.

Furthermore, strong atheists aren't the only ones who frequent these forums. We have weak atheists, agnostics, and theists of all sorts. It seems logical to have this forum and for those who have a great knowledge base to share that information with others. Some have come across the theist arguments time and time again and have much valuable information to add, especially those seasoned veterans.

So why not?

Brighid

[Asha'man]

I orignally came here for defensive information, I wanted ammunition to use in debates defending my lack of belief.

I also found a fascinating group of like-minded individuals, who were generally wonderful to hang out with and talk to. Some of the posts are simply a joy to read, either for the insight of their arguments or the humor value.

I feel a need to stay here and support the boards. For anyone who is asking honest questions about their faith, I like to think I can provide honest and insightful answers, and maybe help some people come to a clearer understanding. Clear and rational thinking is in short supply in this world, and anything I can do to help is a good thing.

[Kvalhion]

Originally posted by Whispers
I suppose so. However, slaves might not believe in the concept of slavery as being a good thing, but they most certainly would believe in the existence of slavery as a reality in their lives.

Exactly. As an atheist, I most certainly believe in the existence of religion as a reality on our society. I do not believe that religious belief is based upon reality, but there is no doubt that religion exists.

People who are "pro-life" may not believe in abortion, but they realize abortion exists and is an issue so they actively try to prevent it from happening. People who are pro-choice realize that if they ignored those who were pro life and took no countermeasures, the right to choose would likely quickly disappear.

I also agree with what the others said; the motivation to learn more about ourselves as well as learn more about those who do not believe as we do is an excellent reason for participating in a forum such as this.

Knowledge is very valuable, and this board provides a wealth of knowledge. :)

[Hopeful Monsters]

When you think about it, the topics surrounding religion, belief systems, the existence or not of a creator, and the opposing positions to these are rich areas:

Philosophy of Religion is a fertile area of philosophy, encompassing and drawing upon many branches of the subject
Secularism is very important indeed and worth fighting and debating for
There are lots of ideas, arguments and insights to learn and consolodate - no matter how certain you are, you can enrich your own ideas and insights on these topics
The other areas of the iidb.org can be fun and entertaining
You learn about real life stories - look at the Dr Rick/IT story - you can learn about stuff like that here
The level of debate here can be so good (and so bad, not naming names) - it's worth returning!!
I think that reading through debates and participating, helps develop the quality of one's personal thinking and reasoning on this BIG TOPIC in the progress (or not) of humanity

[beastmaster]

I think theists raise questions that are meaningful and worthwhile.

Sadly, their answers are shallow and frivolous.

But the questions they raise are momentous and deserve to be discussed.

[Jobar]

As Kvalhion says, this is a fairly common question- here's one of my replies to a previous post:

Fair questions- though they have been asked before, the answers are spread out through many posts on many forums. I'll make an attempt to answer them all at once, and save it for later use.

Most (not all) of the believers who come here do testify that the God of their belief is corporeal in some way, shape, form or fashion. Most state that there are actions or affirmations which we, as human beings, *must* take, as consequences of their beliefs, which we atheists and skeptics are not taking. They require us to change our lives in various (wildly varying) ways. If they did not do this- in real life, as well as on these boards- I doubt that many of us would have more than a passing intellectual interest in their notions.

Some of us do have 'issues' with religion. We have people here whose lives have been twisted and damaged by the religions of their families, their neighbors, their societies. One of the functions of these boards is to help them deal with that damage- and to give them a safe place to vent their anger.

Consider that theists spend much more of their time and money in pursuit of their opinions than we do, both on average and in total.

When we have people lobbying to teach myths as science to our children, and attempting to legislate our social and sexual behaviours to satisfy their own beliefs, and warring and killing and torturing those who do not believe as they do- well, some of us find it worth our time and effort. Indeed, some of us would be willing to dedicate our lives, our fortunes, and our honor, to the cause of fighting such tyrannical and insane superstitions.

Some of us- me, for instance- put forth large amounts of our time and money attempting to demonstrate the awful cost of blind belief, to both individuals and to humanity as a whole. I think my effort and dedication here is the greatest contribution I can make to the welfare and growth of the whole human race.

[Heathen Dawn]

I come here mainly for the company. :)

The occasional theist who posts here makes for a tasty treat (Magus55 especially springs to mind).

I come here also to sharpen my figurative knife. Although I'm not a good debater overall, it gets better as I learn the tactics here. Though, for really serious debate, I go to Christianforums.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Originally posted by Heathen Dawn
Although I'm not a good debater overall, it gets better as I learn the tactics here. Though, for really serious debate, I go to Christianforums.

That's the funniest thing I've ever read on these fora! Thanks, Heathen.

As to the existance of this particular forum, remember that the sec web started out modestly and primarily for secular discussion, but as its popularity grew, so came the cult members.

It is largely because of cult members signing up and assailing atheism that this particular forum exists (if memory serves), though that isn't to say that cult dogma wasn't also being discussed around the sec web prior to the creation of this forum. Consider that many atheists here were once part of the various Christian cults (and Jewish and other cults). So our debates about "god" were first and foremost from an atheist bent.

As with all pests, however, setting out a strip will entice the flies :D.

And, of course, it's always enlightening to read the exact same arguments ten thousand times by cult members in order to more firmly establish how blatantly indoctrinated they all appear to be. After all, what would you say about an endless parade of people all saying the exact same things over and over and over again no matter how many times every thing they've regurgitated has been proved incorrect every single time they spew the same words that were seared into their brains?

If you weren't sure your beliefs had been artificially formed prior to visiting the sec web, you'll sure as shit leave here with (at least) the knowledge that nothing you have ever been told regarding your particular cult beliefs was unique or wasn't previously, historically and thoroughly demonstrated to be false by even the most basic rational assessment.

Considering the overwhelmingly detrimental effect world cults have had on civilization, that's a sufficient reason to debate it here as opposed to it polluting other fora, don't you think?

Hell is, after all, where the indoctrinated mind is, so any steps to erradicate such a pathetically simplistic view of life is worthwhile for the betterment of mankind in general. Don't you think?

That is, after all, the masquarade of the world cults, so why not remove those masks and end such childishness?

In other, more direct words, we were here first in very simplistically delineated forums until idiot cult members kept bothering us, so these categories of fora were created. Cultists here are accomodated; not condemned to eternal hell.

That's why we're better than they are. :p

[Wyrdsmyth]

Good question, Whispers. I'm glad you ask instead of just assume the answer. It shows quality on your part.

I like open and free inquiry, in forums where people of any amount of worldviews are welcome to discuss and debate every subject under the sun, to their heart's content. I think the truth will "win out" in such an environment... at least that is my fondest hope.

This particular forum -- on the Existence of God -- is by its nature going have an axis of conflict between theists and atheists. So in some ways it seems like "Atheists versus Christians" here, since many agnostics might be more undecided or don't think we can arrive at any answers by arguing, and most theists around here are Christians. But that's just how it turns out. This really isn't a forum about bashing Christians.

Personally, I don't want there to not be a God... I just don't think there is, I don't think the reasons people have for believing in such things as gods are good enough. It's not about an agenda, but truth-seeking. I was raised as a Christian, became an agnostic, but now I'm a dyed-in-the-wool atheist. Was I "converted"? Did some liberal college professors warp my brain? No, I was an agnostic long before going to college. And, in fact I don't think any teacher or professor I ever had stated their personal religious or non-religious beliefs. But there definitely was an inverse proportion, of acquiring the ability to think critically and learning about science on one side, and changing my views on the Bible and faith, on the other side.

People like to argue because they like to put their own beliefs and others to the test. The truth should be able to stand up to scrutiny. If it can't -- then there's something wrong, and that should get one to think. Where's the mistake? I like to see intelligent people argue and discuss their beliefs. If their beliefs can't stand up to scrutiny... well, that's up to them to decide.

I guess I like to help other people along, sort of a bodhisattva of atheism. More like a guide, than a preacher.

[Heathen Dawn]

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi
That's the funniest thing I've ever read on these fora! Thanks, Heathen.

Huh? :confused: It wasn't meant to be funny. By "serious debate", I was simply alluding to the fact that there are not many theists here; Christianforums is swarming with them, so it makes for a good debating environment if you're an atheist. I'm sure that's the reason a CF Christian might want to leave CF and visit IIDB.

[House of Games]

interesting,enlightening article.........

:notworthy

http://www.skeptical-christian.net/fundamentals/real_god.html

[Jobar]

Koy:
Considering the overwhelmingly detrimental effect world cults have had on civilization, that's a sufficient reason to debate it here as opposed to it polluting other fora, don't you think?


Well, as TruthisTold points out, theology is intimately linked with the deepest philosophical issues. Although seeing the same theistic arguments for the eight thousandth time is a bitch, the occasional novel topic, or even slightly novel slant on a very old topic, makes up for it, IMO of course, or else I wouldn't be modding this forum! :) So I don't consider EoG 'polluting'. (I do my best to keep it nice and clean, in fact!)

HD:
Christianforums is swarming with them, so it makes for a good debating environment if you're an atheist.

In military terms, a 'target-rich environment', aye? ;)

added- House of Games, welcome to Internet Infidels, and thank you deeply for directing us to that article. An extract-

The god of the Old Testament was difficult to please. He was continually calling for sacrifices. To satisfy his craving, a Niagara of blood poured from the veins of butchered beasts. His priests were ever cutting the throats of lambs and bulls. Of all the gods, Jehovah was probably the most fussy. Everything had to be done in his own particular way. In the twenty-ninth chapter of Exodus, he instructs the Jewish priests in the following manner: "Then shalt thou kill the ram, and take of his blood, and put it upon the tip of the right ear of Aaron, and upon the tip of the right ear of his sons, and upon the thumb of their right hand, and upon the great toe of their right foot, and sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about." It is hard to say how many people Jehovah would have killed had they happened to put the blood on the left ear or on the wrong toe. So far as we know, the god of the Jews never smiled, and he probably held the fragrance of flowers in supreme contempt; but when he saw his priests well decorated with the blood of beasts, and the air thick with his favorite perfume, --the smoke of burning flesh--the wrinkles of his wrath may have relaxed a little.

In Ezekiel, Jehovah tells his people: "And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a this, I, the Lord, have deceived that prophet;" in Deuteronomy, he says to them: "The Lord thy God is a consuming fire;" in Jeremiah, he assures them: "Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger which shall burn forever;" in Isaiah, he proclaims: "And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood as with sweet wine;" and in I Samuel, he utters this frightful command: "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." So the god of the Bible describes himself as being untruthful, a consuming fire, forever angry, the high priest of cannibalism, and the commander-in-chief over wholesale murder! Can such a god be real?

Why should humanity believe that a book containing such descriptions of deity is inspired and divine? Why should we go to barbarians for our ideals of divinity? Why should we worship a cannibal god? Why should we build temples in honor of a god who took extreme delight in witnessing the long drawn-out tortures and the death of helpless women and innocent babes? If Jehovah were to come to earth, he would be the most undesirable citizen in the world. Why, he is said to have killed, on one occasion, fifty thousand and seventy persons merely because they had looked into a wooden box. Can such a god be real?

A work of great power, and water clarity. I am going to re-read it often, I think.

[Godless Wonder]

My answer applies only to me, (though others may have similar answers.)

Why am I on this forum? For 34 years, I was an atheist, and had not even really thought about trying to associate or communicate with other atheists. I had given religion a lot of thought back in my younger days, figured out that it was almost certainly a load of crap (not enough carbon atoms in the universe to manufacture the ink necessary to print all the zeroes required to represent the probability as a decimal fraction) and so I didn't think about it much at all after that for most of my life. Not believiing in something really doesn't require much attention, once you've arrived at the conclusion. How many minutes a year does the average Christian contemplate the fact that they might just be wrong about Islam? Not many, I'd bet.

Then, i fell in love with a Christian girl. A girl who seemed perfect in every way, except for the glaring fault that she was Christian. She was a girl to make a guy want to throw a bishop through a stained glass window. (to paraphrase Raymond Chandler (http://www.bartleby.com/66/60/11260.html)). Eventually she dumped me, because I was an atheist. So I came here, seeking to find out what the hell was wrong with her mind. Turns out nothing is wrong with her mind, she is normal, as compared to most other humans. Which means she is susceptible to believing all sorts of random things which happen not to be true.

I've stuck around because this place is interesting.

[Anonymous Bosch]

for me...

atheism means that people have opened their minds and used them. this generally means they are a bit brighter and more inquisitive than your average intellectual sloth ie theist.

in my calculator faith= dumb, deluded and deranged.:eek:

but then i'm a proselytising atheist....or a lorax.:)

[demoninho]

Originally posted by Godless Wonder
My answer applies only to me, (though others may have similar answers.)

Why am I on this forum? For 34 years, I was an atheist, and had not even really thought about trying to associate or communicate with other atheists. I had given religion a lot of thought back in my younger days, figured out that it was almost certainly a load of crap (not enough carbon atoms in the universe to manufacture the ink necessary to print all the zeroes required to represent the probability as a decimal fraction) and so I didn't think about it much at all after that for most of my life. Not believiing in something really doesn't require much attention, once you've arrived at the conclusion. How many minutes a year does the average Christian contemplate the fact that they might just be wrong about Islam? Not many, I'd bet.

Then, i fell in love with a Christian girl. A girl who seemed perfect in every way, except for the glaring fault that she was Christian. She was a girl to make a guy want to throw a bishop through a stained glass window. (to paraphrase Raymond Chandler (http://www.bartleby.com/66/60/11260.html)). Eventually she dumped me, because I was an atheist. So I came here, seeking to find out what the hell was wrong with her mind. Turns out nothing is wrong with her mind, she is normal, as compared to most other humans. Which means she is susceptible to believing all sorts of random things which happen not to be true.

I've stuck around because this place is interesting.

More or less the same here if you want to read about my story:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61731

[Howard]

I look at this as an intellectual tennis match, albeit one that no one wins and never ends. In the process I’ve learned a lot about logic, science, philosophy, theology and epistemology from a lot of very smart and knowledgeable people… and I can now cream any of my Xtian friends in a one-on-one God debate. Plus, it beats the hell out of watching TV.

[Keith Russell]

First, I come here to sharpen my own arguments in favour of rational beliefs. I have yet to hear (or read) a consistent, rational defense of theism/mysticism, but I've come across a couple arguments which have been challenging to refute.

Second, I truly do not understand why anyone would believe something without reason. I know that many (if not most) people do, but I am very curious as to 'why'. I have yet to find even a challenging explanation for this, but I continue looking, since irrationality is so prevalent.

K

[JCS]

If there is no God in your opinion, why are you on this forum?
I enjoy gymnastics whether mental or physical.

There are countless thousands of forums on the net offering everything from a diddle eyed joe to a .....
Just because someone comes here doesn't mean they don't frequent other sites. I have several that I visit just as much if not more than this one. Model trains, motorcycle racing, dogs, sports, ..........

If you are a confirmed atheist, I am, and you should have seen the ceremony, it was so spiritual even my theist friends cried.its just that in a strange way it seems as if argueing with theists is a bit of a sport here. Is professional wrestling a sport or entertainment? Anyway is continually asking for proof of claims really arguing or just insisting?

When one speaks, and especially if what they say fits into the fundie stereotype, they are jumped on from a big height. Its amusing to me =) Fundies that fit the fundie stereotype amuse me also.

What is it about argueing against something that you don’t believe in, that uses so much of your time? Asking for proof really doesn't take that much time. What really is time consuming is the waiting for the proof, any proof.

Are you all secretly hoping to be converted? (joke) Well absolutely! Just as soon as the proof gets here.

[Whispers]

QUOTE---Just because someone comes here doesn't mean they don't frequent other sites. I have several that I visit just as much if not more than this one. Model trains, motorcycle racing, dogs, sports, ..........

That’s true. I was hoping to get to the point though, where I could understand why a non-believer would spend a LOT of time on this site? If ya know what I mean...

QUOTE---Anyway is continually asking for proof of claims really arguing or just insisting?

It’s a riddle, I agree. The thing is, constantly asking and constantly not receiving, are two sides of an ever moving circle. If they never claimed, you would not ask. If you did not ask, they would never not answer. Tell me, in all honesty what do you think the chances of getting proof of God are, on an internet forum? Do you think it is likely that it will happen or could happen? What proof could I offer in the very next post, that would convince you? If you constantly ask, and the other Atheists constantly ask, and the proof is never provided than surely there are only as few options to consider...

1) There is NO proof

2) It cannot be proven on a forum

3) They choose not to prove it!

There may be others.

I think that there is proof. I don’t believe it can be discovered on a forum and I don’t believe option 3 for a second. If they could prove it, they would....wouldn't they? This being the case, why bother constantly asking a question that cannot be answered? Not knocking you here at all, just trying to look into the way that the circle is kept ever spinning....

QUOTE---Fundies that fit the fundie stereotype amuse me also.

To a fundie though, you are probably seen as a fundie for Atheism and also have some amusement value. You see, two sides of the same coin.

QUOTE---Asking for proof really doesn't take that much time. What really is time consuming is the waiting for the proof, any proof.

True, and we know why, don’t we? Ask ask ask ask ask ask, nothing will be shown to you I promise. In fact, I am confident that you will never be given proof here, or on any other forum. If you agree with that, why bother asking?

QUOTE---Well absolutely! Just as soon as the proof gets here.

The proof can be found, if the circumstances are right, both internal and external and if we are truly searching.

[JCS]

Tell me, in all honesty what do you think the chances of getting proof of God are, on an internet forum?
Well as time goes by I would say less and less.

What proof could I offer in the very next post, that would convince you? I have no idea, I guess it depends on the claims made concerning the deity in questiion. The more attributes you ascribe the steeper the proof requirements.

If you constantly ask, and the other Atheists constantly ask, and the proof is never provided than surely there are only as few options to consider...
1) There is NO proof
2) It cannot be proven on a forum
3) They choose not to prove it!
I think 1 is most probable and 2 is probable since plenty of theists think they can but don't. 3 seems rather out there since most theists that come here offer explanations as to why they do or we should .......

If they could prove it, they would....wouldn't they? This being the case, why bother constantly asking a question that cannot be answered? Not knocking you here at all, just trying to look into the way that the circle is kept ever spinning....
I think you're looking at this ass backwards. Why keep positing something for which the questions cannot be answered, that way the circle doesn't even exist.

To a fundie though, you are probably seen as a fundie for Atheism and also have some amusement value. You see, two sides of the same coin. That one had me laughing until it hurt. I guess that would make me a fundie for the name Joel also, since that is the label used to identify me on a personal level. I don't preach atheisim, it is just the label ascribed to where I stand on belief. Theists would never know I am an atheist if they did not confront me with their theisim.
You see, two sides of the same coin. You see, it is not.

True, and we know why, don’t we? Ask ask ask ask ask ask, nothing will be shown to you I promise. In fact, I am confident that you will never be given proof here, or on any other forum. If you agree with that, why bother asking? Posit posit posit posit posit and nothing to back it up. If you are confident that I will never be given proof here, or on any other forum, why bother positing.

The proof can be found, if the circumstances are right, both internal and external and if we are truly searching. Well how many deities have you found besides the one? There are plenty of them postulated, and they can be found, if the circumstances are right, both internal and external and if you are truly searching. If you reject that, then in all honesty you are only different from me on this issue by one degree.

[joedad]

For me it presently comes down to pleasure, notice, acceptance, support, intellectual discussion, in short, all the things we crave and require socially.

Asking why an atheist spends much time at this site is the equivalent of asking why a believer spends much time in church. In one sense, your question is nonsensical. If atheists were spending lots of time in church you'd have a point. Do you somehow equate this site with a church? It does not appear to be a riddle to me.

And, what JCS said makes a lot of sense. Believing in one god, or several, out of thousands upon thousands makes one overwhelmingly atheistic. How is it that theists generally cannot accept this fact?

Also, religion is another form of racism. It makes people think they're better than someone else simply because they have a different favorite color. Something this destructive should invite opposition.

Finally, however you cut it, your every act represents a choice. Perhaps that choice was selected for hundreds of millions or billions of years ago, and is your genetic inheritance. But you should still want to understand it, as an informed choice is preferable imho to one inherited and uninformed.

[Calzaer]

If there is no God in your opinion, why are you on this forum?

There is a god in my opinion. It's just not yours. I'm here because the enemy of my enemy is, if not my friend, then at least someone I can get a little aid from when it comes to dealing with people who'd rather legislate me out of existence than give me the time of day.

[Heathen Dawn]

Originally posted by Whispers
I think that there is proof. I don't believe it can be discovered on a forum

So if not on a forum, where can it be discovered? In a church service? Through a Hindu meditation? On a drug-induced trip? In an outreach seminar? Where is this proof?

[Leah]

Back in November when I got onto this board for the first time, I was wondering why people were on here, if they were over it.

But I kept on returning and reading more, appreciating the first really interesting and educated board, full of bright people while still humorous and rather respectful towards another.

As for me, I can still learn a lot about eastern ideologies, and perhaps the time had come (now that I finally registered) to talk about something that I had avoided for more than a decade.

What confuses me a lot more, is that atheists leave this board to become regulars on the christianforum.com :confused:

Very nice place this. :D

[Blackness]

I've been a lurker for the past 3 months on this forum. I keep returning because I think the discussion here are interesting. Also I learn about things I've always wondered about such as the basis of morality, the mechanics of evolution, philopshy, god, etc. I don't see this as a waste of time but a way to furture my education.

[Autonemesis]

Originally posted by Whispers
Obviously I can imagine it is nice conversing with others of a similar belief, its just that in a strange way it seems as if argueing with theists is a bit of a sport here. When one speaks, and especially if what they say fits into the fundie stereotype, they are jumped on from a big height. Its amusing to me =)

Do you suppose you are unique in this respect? Do you think atheists would not wish to seek amusement?

If not, then you already have your answer.

[Autonemesis]

Originally posted by Whispers
When views are being espoused which are blatantly aggressive and cause further seperation among men...

You're talking about evangelical christianity, right?

Its just that if you are a strong atheist and perhaps you feel that there is only one life to lead, what percentage of your life will you give to debating the concept of something that you don’t believe exists?

Quite a small amount. Perhaps it is you who spend too much time in online forums.

[Whispers]

QUOTE---You're talking about evangelical christianity, right?

Yes indeed!

QUOTE---Quite a small amount. Perhaps it is you who spend too much time in online forums

Perhaps. I am not attacking anyone here, just curious what it is about this forum that holds so much sway.

[Whispers]

QUOTE---I have no idea, I guess it depends on the claims made concerning the deity in questiion. The more attributes you ascribe the steeper the proof requirements.

Okay, lets get specific. Considering the Christian God of the bible. What exactly would prove the truth of that God to you in the very next post?
quote:

QUOTE---You see, it is not.

I don’t see im afraid. The two sides of the coin in this particular communication are you and I. The coin is spinning.

QUOTE---Posit posit posit posit posit and nothing to back it up. If you are confident that I will never be given proof here, or on any other forum, why bother positing.

Back it up? Please clarify what you require? Yes I am confident, and that is my position. I have stated it and now and enjoyed the responses to it.

QUOTE---Well how many deities have you found besides the one?

There is only and can only ever be one truth.

QUOTE---There are plenty of them postulated, and they can be found, if the circumstances are right, both internal and external and if you are truly searching. If you reject that, then in all honesty you are only different from me on this issue by one degree.

Okay then. As you are suggesting this, can you enlighten me to what you found yourself and what circumstances are/were required? If you are saying it merely for effect then fair enough.

[demoninho]

Originally posted by Whispers
Okay, lets get specific. Considering the Christian God of the bible. What exactly would prove the truth of that God to you in the very next post?


This one is really easy: just for the bible to be inerrant and concordant with science

Or you could make an extra-ordinary claim I could see with my own eyes looking out the window as I read the post

[CX]

Because I was getting bored at B,C&H and I thought I'd poke around EoG.

[Jobar]

Whispers, you might want to be clear that the IIDB, and the Secweb, is not just talking about God(s)' nonexistence/existence, the way this forum is. Oh, there are some of us who have a certain philosophical bent, that stay on here a lot. A few, like me, contribute a lot because we have made a commitment to help out enforcing our rules, and if I've got to read all these comments, I will make my own too! But after a while, it's been my experience that most unbelievers lose interest in talking about a God they do not believe in, and concentrate on the other forums. Eventually I will tire of arguing EoG, and will either go back to being a 'private citizen' of IIDB, or move to another forum.

As to whether there exists a convincing argument for EoG- I have long thought not. But I have not given up on the hope to find an irrefutable argument, or series of arguments, which would show that there is *no* god or gods. I think we can do this now, if people stay here long enough to listen to lots and lots of arguments; but finding short, simply stated, and water clear arguments is more difficult. (One of the reasons I am so grateful to House of Games is that the link he contributed is an excellent approach to that.)