Two of my friends died

[One for Sorrow]

In July, two of my friends died. One of them, Amanda, had an aneurysm. She was 18. Two days later, I found out that my stepbrother's best friend Wes was hit by a car. He was only 17.

Dammit! :(

It has been over a month since they died, and I am still reeling over the shock of them both dying within a couple days of each other. I'm depressed, and I can't seem to stop thinking about Amanda and Wes, even though I wasn't that close to either of them. I wish I could believe in an afterlife. For me, there is no comfort in knowing that they have ceased to exist.

Their deaths seem so...pointless to me. There was no need for them to die. Amanda and Wes were young and healthy, and were two of the nicest people I've ever met. Amanda's death may not have been preventable, but Wes's certainly was. Life is just so unfair. It's better than not existing at all though, I guess.

I find it hard to imagine that theists can find comfort in their belief in God when things like these happen. IMO, if God exists, he must be a sadistic bastard. There's no comfort in atheism, either. I wish that I could believe in an afterlife of some sort, but I simply can't delude myself into believing something without evidence. It's so hard to accept that they are gone forever.

Sorry for depressing all of you. I'm not just looking for pity here. I needed to get some of this off my chest, but I also need a constructive way to deal with my grief. I have a couple questions. As unbelievers, how do you deal with death? Is there a way of looking at it that is less negative?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Jessica

[rock_hard_cox]

I would suggest channeling your pain into something artistic. I haven't gone through anything like what you have recently gone through, and you have my most heartfelt sympathies, but whenever something gets to me, I write music. Perhaps you could try something like that. If you're not a musician, maybe you should try poetry or something. It's a good way to vent and express your feelings. That kinda stuff has always helped me and you said you wanted to do something constructive. I hope that helps.

[xorbie]

And meditation. It's a good way to control/use your emotions, and to truly understand them better. Also, if you have little or no artistics talent (like me), listening to music, or reading great literature is a good substitute. I find the A Beautiful Mind soundtrack particularly nice.

[Secular Elation]

One for sorrow, I am so terribly sorry for your recent losses. It always breaks my heart when I see someone devastated by the untimely deaths of family or acquaintences.

I understand how nothing can seem to bring you comfort. There is nothing that can be done to reverse what has happened. What you can do, though, is celebrate the lives of those you knew by remembering whatever good times you had. Try to find sources for coping and solace, you can find many of them in family, friends, leisure time, doing something you enjoy, either of what rock_hard_cox and xorbie have suggested, or any other catharsis. My heart goes out to you.

[Darwin26]

...as we speak...reaching out is the best... i'm grateful that you shared here. You bring us together... and unite us as humans. And the sorrows you share remind us of those we have had...

Roc and xorbie both had good ways to sort thru the pain and bewilderment...

"Why" will make you crazy ...and it's not about you it's about them

***Acceptance*** will bring them to you ... Cry and go through the stages ... denial, anger, sadness.... don't drown or pawn your sorrows....own them.

i'm sorry for your loss

i would read the transcripts from the Port Authority of New York ... and the tales of human bravery, compassion and loss.

[DMB]

Originally posted by Secular Elation
What you can do, though, is celebrate the lives of those you knew by remembering whatever good times you had.
I think this is excellent advice. It won't stop you from feeling the pain, but it will give a positive side to everything, and one that is not based on the delusion of an afterlife.

We do eventually recover from bereavement, although the scars remain and occasionally hurt. Try as much as possible to keep your life filled with things to do, so that you don't spend too much time brooding. Above all, when you find that a whole day or longer has gone by without your thinking about Amanda or Wes, don't feel guilty. Forgetting is part of the healing process and doesn't mean that you won't ever remember them.

[Majestyk]

Originally posted by One for Sorrow
I have a couple questions. As unbelievers, how do you deal with death? Is there a way of looking at it that is less negative? Yes and no. It's up to you. You can dwell on the loss or you can appreciate the opportunity you had in knowing them at all. Focus on the good or the bad.

To paraphrase J. Campbell: Life is sorrow. We will lose everything, eventually. It is the nature of life. It is the price we must pay to experience the joy of the moment. In knowing this, we have a choice. To either withdraw from life and avoid the sorrow of loss or to participate in life as a human being, knowing that each moment we share is a precious thing.

So, embrace life. Be happy for the times you shared and know that there are more good moments ahead.

[Lolabrigida]

From one Oregonian to another....I am so very sorry for your losses. Could you get a journal or something and write down all the positive things about these two people? When you feel down, go and read the good things. It might help.

[Jobar]

Don't live today for tomorrow
Like you were immortal.
The only survivors on this world of ours are
The warming sun,
The cooling rain.
Snowflake drifting on a breath of breeze.
The lightning bolt that freezed the sky for you
That only eagles seem to pass on through.
The words of love,
The cries of hate
And the man in the moon who'll seduce you,
Then finally loose you.

-Genesis

[Heathen Dawn]

Originally posted by One for Sorrow
I wish I could believe in an afterlife. For me, there is no comfort in knowing that they have ceased to exist.


Me too. But there's no evidence.


I wish that I could believe in an afterlife of some sort, but I simply can't delude myself into believing something without evidence.


That's what atheism is all about: not believing what there is no evidence for. So many theists think atheism is about being freed from responsibility, anger with God or just being too lazy to follow a theistic lifestyle; that's all bull, atheism is about going where the evidence leads.


As unbelievers, how do you deal with death? Is there a way of looking at it that is less negative?


There is nothing to deal with. Nothing at all to do. Move along, there is nothing more to see. Continue other activities you were doing before it happened. I don't even advise to hold memorials; each moment spent by the grave is a moment less of your finite life. The only memorial is the works they have left and the thoughts they have voiced.

[One for Sorrow]

Thank you all for the advice. I think that more than anything I just needed to talk to someone about it, so I thank you for listening and providing your thoughts.

I know that my main problem is that I have way too much time to think about it. College doesn't start for me until the 29th, and I don't have a job. I need to do something to occupy my time. I think that I will do something artistic, like rock_hard_cox suggested. I have been meaning to start painting again anyway.

Again, thank you for all of the suggestions and kind words. You have given me a lot to think about.

Jessica

[lisarea]

Lack of belief in the supernatural doesn't mean that death renders an existence null and void, though.

Just because people cease to exist in conscious form doesn't mean that the influences and effects they had on the world around them cease to exist, too. I find it perfectly compatible with atheism to honor and cherish the memories of people who have died.

I'm baffled by this popular notion that atheism somehow turns people into cold-hearted robots. As though acceptance of the simple, often cruel facts of life mean that we can't feel love or loyalty or remorse or grief. That's just not true.

I know life isn't fair. I know already that the amount and quality of life you get isn't decided on any kind of merit-based system. Good people sometimes die young, and bad people sometimes live long, prosperous lives. It doesn't seem right, I know. I think I'd very much like it to be otherwise. But it's not. And if I did believe there were some merit-based system involved, I can't imagine how I'd stifle the cognitive dissonance between that belief system and the data available.

I've never been religious myself, so I can't really relate to the other side of this, but I expect that the shock of sudden deaths like this are probably just a little more bearable because I already knew that life wasn't fair, and I didn't believe that there was some conscious entity guiding these events who could have intervened to stop them.

I don't know how to deal with these things any better than anyone else. I do know, though, that after a time, the initial shock does wear off, and you're able to remember the good things, too, instead of just feeling like you've got a rock in your stomach whenever you think about it.

[Heathen Dawn]

Originally posted by lisarea
And if I did believe there were some merit-based system involved, I can't imagine how I'd stifle the cognitive dissonance between that belief system and the data available.

My chief reason for leaving theism. Indeed, reality is so out of whack with what theistic religion says it is, that once one thinks deeply enough of it, it strikes one as the epitome of insanity.

[Hedwig]

One for sorrow, I'm terribly terribly sorry for your loss. I've had several friends die over the last few years and it's a very difficult thing. I agree with everyone's suggestions. Write out your feelings in a journal, express them through music, art, poetry. Talk to other friends who knew these people and share memories and funny stories about these people. A friend of mine died earlier this year and I still find it very comforting to go and hang out at the the same places in which we used to hang out and chat with my friends about her...maybe have a drink in her memory. None of us have much of a belief in an afterlife so the sharing of memories is the way we give her a kind of temporary immortality.

[Buddrow_Wilson]

I don't think it is correct to assume that theists, in general, grieve any more or less than atheists do when someone we care for dies. My experiences would suggest the opposite, in fact. Grief is a natural reaction that, in my opinion, is more affected by one's personality than by a belief system. The best advice I can give is to allow your grief to manifest as it will; as long as it doesn't interfere too much in your daily routine. Don't add anxiety about others whom you may be perceiving as dealing with loss in a better way. Worrying about your ability to recover from a broken arm will not make it heal faster, nor is it likely to in regards to the "healing" process of grief.

Much of the grief we feel from someone's death is related to the loss of the person in our life, and the awareness of the fragile nature of life. And similar to the ending of a co-dependent relationship, you will eventually find that you are able to look back on your relationship with the deceased with a fondness and gratitude to have shared existence with a person that greatly outweighs any paings of grief that may be associated with the memories.

I find it fascinating, frightening and wonderful to contemplate the resiliency and coping ability of the human animal. Our ability to bounce back from loss and disappoinment is truly great. If not for these instincts we would be lost.

[One for Sorrow]

Again, I would like to thank all of you who posted here for the advice and insight. Just posting this helped me a lot. I was very angry when I wrote the OP, but I'm not anymore. There's no one to be mad at, and no one to blame. In that respect, I'm glad I'm not a theist. It must be so hard to believe in a loving God that would allow terrible things to happen.

Jobar: that was beautiful. Thank you.

Majestyk: Thanks for the Joseph Campbell quote. I have a notebook full of my favorite quotes, and I've just added that one.

Originally posted by Darwin26
"Why" will make you crazy ...and it's not about you it's about them

Originally posted by lisarea
I do know, though, that after a time, the initial shock does wear off, and you're able to remember the good things, too, instead of just feeling like you've got a rock in your stomach whenever you think about it.

Thank you, Darwin26 and lisarea. I think that I needed to be reminded of those things.

I am going to pass some of your suggestions for coping on to my stepbrother. I know that the first few days of school have been hard on him.

I am so grateful for this forum. Thank you all for your heartfelt concern and compassion.

Jessica

[jj]

Ow ow ow.

One day at a time....

Just keep truckin. Don't be afraid to cry when you need to, either.

Yeah. Of the 7 smartest kids I knew in High School, two are alive. One is me, one is an unmarried 50ish mom, and the rest are dead.

Nam, suicide, Nam, nam, suicide. bah.

Bah. The world hates smart people. Just don't let it get you! Live well, and count that as your revenge on the universe.

(btw, I also call that the nerd's revenge... Living well)

(says the old, married nerd with kids and a dog...)

[Elbereth]

Like xorbie, I think meditation might be helpful... but it's not for everyone. I recently typed up a Guided Meditation (http://www.boomspeed.com/bf12soccer/Grief.html) on grief that you might get something out of.

Basically the idea is to accept that you will feel pain from the loss of these people you cared about, and more importantly that it is a good thing. To me, feeling pain at their loss simply means that you loved them. If you didn't love them, you wouldn't bother feeling for them.

I don't think grief should be "dealt with", nor pain gotten rid of. They are part of the experience of life.

Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding.
Even as the stone of the fruit must break, that its heart may stand in the sun, so must you know pain.
And could you keep your heart in wonder at the daily miracles of your life, your pain would not seem less wondrous than your joy;
And you would accept the seasons of your heart, even as you have always accepted the seasons that pass over your fields.
And you would watch with serenity through the winters of your grief.

~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet

[Rushianbeing]

Wow, Elbereth, that is BEAUTIFUL!!! It made me cry right here at my desk. I am going to cut that out and keep it. Thank you.
One For Sorrow, you are not alone, as I'm sure you've plainly seen on this thread. I too lost someone very young and very dear to me, very suddenly and senselessly, and struggled with the same things as you. Now thinking about her makes me smile. I have a picture of myself and her taped to my computer monitor, and I can see her face and hear her voice any time I want to in my head. She may not be here physically anymore, but her imprint on my life is everywhere.
I wish you peace in your journey through this grief...it will change shape and form and you will feel better.

Rushianbeing

[Roland98]

One for Sorrow,

I'm so sorry for your loss. I too have lost some young friends recently--a college friend in the WTC disaster, and a girl I used to babysit for last year to non-Hodgkins lymphoma. For me, writing helped quite a bit--memories, stories of them, poetry, etc.

Another response is to be pro-active, to funnel your feelings into a way to honor their memory. Has anyone begun a scholarship in their name/s yet? I'm helping to get one funded and criteria established for disbursement for the girl I babysat for; it's a way to both honor her memory, and to benefit those who show her spark and potential, to help them live out dreams that she wasn't able to.

[Jamie_L]

One for Sorrow,

I am terribly sorry to hear of your loss. I sympathize. Four years ago I went through a terrible loss - it was my first really significant loss since becoming an atheist. It was rough.

I survived on the strength of support from family and friends. I also took some solace in the fact that I knew these events weren't the work of mysterious forces. I did not have to find meaning in them or explanation for them. Neither my lost loved one nor I were being targeted by the some entity for supposed transgressions.

I guess the keys to survival are accepting first that it is OK to grieve, and second that it is OK to live. Grieving is a process not for the dead, but for the living. It is important to do what you feel is best to help you heal. In reality, we have no obligations to those we have lost - only obligations to ourselves. We do right by those who are gone for our sakes, not for theirs. And as we heal, it is important to accept that it is OK to enjoy life. To have fun. To be alive. Again, we don't owe any amount of grief to those we lose, we owe that grief only to ourselves. There is no crime, no sin, in moving on. Keep memories alive to keep yourself happy. But don't keep pain alive out of debt or obligation.

Dealing With Mortality: A Skeptic's Guide (http://www.kisrael.com/mortal/index.html) is an interesting little website for the person who believes in no afterlife. Give it a read if you have some time.

Here is the quote I keep in my back pocket from when I had my loss:

"Don't worry about the future. Or worry, but understand that worrying is about as effective as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubble gum. The real troubles in your life are apt to be the ones that never crossed your worried mind. The kind that blindside you at 4:00pm on some idle Tuesday."
-Kurt Vonnegut.

For Alex, my idle Tuesday

Jamie