Are atheists more militant in the USA?

[KnightWhoSaysNi]

Would anyone here agree with my observation that atheists and agnostics tend to be more militant and anti-religious in the USA compared to other western countries? This is generally my feeling.

For example, here in Canada, most of my friends either (1) don't believe in a god, or (2) believe in a god but don't care if I don't. I don't even know if some of my friends are theistic or non-theistic. I frequently see nontheists and theists date each other. Personally, when I get know someone, whether he/she is a theist or not doesn't really concern me and that's the impression I get from others too.

This is especially true in Europe. In Britain, claiming you're an atheist is like saying whether or not you like wearing a hat. While in the US, many atheists would shout Hip Hip Hurray to a religion bashing speech by someone like Madalyn Murray O'Hair, those of us from Canada and Europe would consider her a bigoted, fanatical old bat.

Of course, I can sympathise with atheists from the US since fundamentalists represent a subculture that has enormous financial and political power, supported by a significant chunk of the population (about a third of the US population as opposed to something like 13% in Canada). You have powerful political groups in the US like the Christian Coalition, a church on every street corner, attempts to marginalize nonChristians, etc..

Fundamentalists tend to be much more "in your face" in US. I suppose I might be inclined to be more militantly anti-relgious if I lived in a place like Texas. It could get unbearable being constantly bombarded by fundamentalists beliefs foisted on me and my family (if I had one), or perhaps even losing job privileges, friends, community participation, because I'm not a fundamentalist. In Texas, if you called all atheists "scum" you would probably receive approval and sympathy. In Canada or Europe, many would think you're a bigot or fascist for saying that.

Any thoughts? Agree? Disagree?

Jason

[mecca777]

Originally posted by Nightshade
This is especially true in Europe. In Britain, claiming you're an atheist is like saying whether or not you like wearing a hat.That's true to an extent, although a lot of people seem to take a Deist/agnostic/apathetic Anglican stance and get a bit sniffy if you insist you're a genuine atheist (though that might be more of a fair-play/politeness issue than a theological one). However, when I see fundies (almost always imported) in my city streets, I bristle somewhat; door-to-door religion salesmen never call back more than once, and the word gets around very quickly; and I get physically twitchy and very angry when I hear prominent political figures in the media referring to "our Christian heritage", or when Tony Blair goes all Vicar of St Albions.

If I lived in a country where a YEC "end times" born-again fundie was in charge, and where that attitude infected the entire executive, I would certainly be far more aggressive and militant in my atheism. Since I live in a country where most religious people are fairly abashed about the whole thing, and where a lack of belief is generally not considered unusual, it's not necessary for me to defend my viewpoint every day.

[crisisGirl]

i have to agree. atheists probably are more militant in the u.s., but it is out of necessity. theists over here (specifically christians) are constantly trying to shove their beliefs down everyone's throat and force their god into public life.

[Viti]

I agree with crisis girl. If we weren't militant, then the fundies would ensure god permeates every facet of our lives....it's already barely kept in check (ex, the 10 Commandments monument, "Under God" in the pledge, etc)

[Virgil Tibbs]

Nightshade, as someone from the US I'd have to say you are pretty much dead on target. I'd add that the increased militant behavior is probably also related to the increased level of indoctrination. The more brainwashed you've been, the more resentful you could (potentially) become afterward.

Thanks to catholicism, I spent ages ~12 to 25 (more preceisely, until I found this place a little while back) thinking that being a nonbeliever made me a "bad" person. It was more of subconscious thing in the sense that I never scrutinized this feeling too closely, but when I realized what bunk this was I felt a bit better.

Also, since most atheists are "in the closet" here, that can also make one bitter. I went around half my life thinking it was perfectly normal that I should have to hide my (lack of) religion in order to avoid getting people mad at me. :mad:

The scary thing is I live in the supposedly liberal state of Massachusetts. I'd hate to think what living in some of those virtual-theocracies down South would be like. Someone in another forum I frequent who was from Alabama said that down there people "want know your favorite football team, your church, and your name in that order."

Tibbs

[Gothic_J]

hey, you live in MA? we could meet each other.

oh, and Im both militant (shows off shiny m16) and militant atheist. anywhere outside the public forum, I stalk theists and slay them with my vast knowledge of secular work.

[One for Sorrow]

Nightshade,

I was just in Calgary, and I had fundies approach me twice! It's never that exciting where I live. Of course, it was Stampede week so maybe that's when all the crazies come out...?

My dad is Canadian, and I spend a most of my summers in Canada. From what I've seen, Canadians seem a lot more open minded about other people's beliefs.

I live in Oregon. Even though it is a fairly liberal state, and it is second only to Washington in its percentage of nonbelievers, I am still afraid to come completely out of the closet. Most of my friends know, but some of the more fundified would react very badly if they found out. (One of them sent me an e-mail that said something to the effect of: "90% of the people of our country believe in God. The other 10% should just sit down and shut up about having "In God We Trust" on our money and "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance.":mad: )

I agree with some of the previous posters. We have to be more militant here, so that the country isn't overtaken by Biblebots like my friend who thinks that having God on our money is more important than the first amendment.

I'm glad I have dual citizenship. I think I'll be packing my bags and heading North soon.

[B34RZ0R]

I have been thinking about this lately and have decided that I should be militant/non-complacent about being an atheist. Everywhere is christian influence. I can't talk to more than half the people I know about this because they are all 'fundified' :( .

I only hope I find some way to cope - at least until I can find a way off of this continent!

Be Well my fellow Infidel,
Bearach

[andy_d]

I've noticed a real siege mentality amongst some of the Americans on here.

I can fully understand why this is, but I still don't think it's healthy. They seem to have a lot of anger at religion. I find it hard to believe that anyone can be truly rational about something that always inspries such strong emotion.

In some ways I think they more Anti-Christians than atheists.

Buggered if I know how to recitfy this situation, though. If I was immersed in an overwhelmingly Xian environment, i'd probably tend the same way.

[niggle]

I, as an American, feel that the US hit its peak shortly after WW2 and has been on a downward trend since. Many Christians have noticed that and have come to the wrong conclusions for the reasons for it. They all say "we've left God yada yada yada." :rolleyes:

I think its because of our increasing debt, stupidity, and arrogance. Our egos got so inflated after WW2 we thought we were the only ones who knew how to solve the world's problems. I think it's becoming increasingly clear that we don't.

On the plus side, I feel I live in the least dangerous part of the US. Though not perfect, we were able to elect a governor that could call religion for what it was. And recently I've been particularily glad I don't live in the South. I wouldn't want to live in California about now. Although Wsahington, Oregon, Mass.,and Vermont sound like decent enough places if I ever were to leave Minnesota.

I see Christianity as representative of the irrational behavior here in the US. I think that the best thing for the US right now would be a huge national freethought movement.

[demoninho]

A bit of topic but I'm just curious why the US is getting more fundie (or Europe more liberal/secular)? Or are there still the same number of fundies but know are more skilled at public relations and getting their message heard in the media?

[Virgil Tibbs]

Originally posted by demoninho
A bit of topic but I'm just curious why the US is getting more fundie (or Europe more liberal/secular)? Or are there still the same number of fundies but know are more skilled at public relations and getting their message heard in the media?

Well, here is my theory. The fundies in the US are more successful of late because of the strategy they've accidently hit on, with the following basis: sensational lies are more interesting than dull truths. A debunking of a sensational lie counts as a dull truth and isn't going to get nearly as much media coverage (the media needs ratings, after all, so the crazier the better). Furthermore, if you lie fast enough its hard to debunk them all, and if you repeat a lie often enough that has been debunked sooner or later people will lose track of whether or not it was debunked.

Couple that with the fact that religion is pretty much by defintion believing what one prefers to be true over what evidence says, and it is not surprising that religious folk are not overly skeptical of things that sound good (I suppose this is true of the irreligious to a lesser extent too). Pretty soon everyone is taking lies to be "proven true," and when they hit info that discredits the lie they assume the people presenting that info are liars with an insidious agenda (the dreaded secular humanists! :eek: ).

Unfortunately, since non-supernaturalists tend to value empirical knowledge for its own sake, we cannot match this strategy. I can only hope this disease of public discourse (I think the US caught it in the McCarthy era) is not contagious.

Canadians may want to consider building a gaint wall on the border; you might be safer. To think you gave us The Kids in the Hall and this is how we repay you. :o

Tibbs

[ashe]

Hmm. I live in Halifax, Nova Scotia. There are a lot of vocal Christian supporters here, if the newspaper is any indication.

Furthermore, we just had about 1000 people turn out at the Halifax Grand Parade to protest same-sex marriage on Saturday. About 20 counter-protesters showed support for homosexual rights. (They probably weren't organized at all.)

Canada is no safe haven. (Although perhaps certain areas are better than others.)

[openeyes]

On the plus side, I feel I live in the least dangerous part of the US. Though not perfect, we were able to elect a governor that could call religion for what it was. But Ventura is gone and we've got an evangelical in his place. He and his minions seem to be doing whatever they can to erase any secular gains or holdings made during Jesse's administration.

I'm not comfortable with the way are state has turned. We've had Republicans in office before, but the latest ones seem to be much more preachy. Unfortunately, they only walk the walk about inconsequential things, like saying they pray and attending church regularly. When it comes to treating others in a charitable manner or fully disclosing financial interests during one's campaign, we can't expect much.

We need to get/stay involved to keep them from thinking they can impose their questionable values on the rest of us.

[BioBeing]

I moved from England to Southern USA (Tennessee) 10 years ago, and I definitley noticed that it was more religous here. I have had many people ask me what Church I attend immediately after meeting them. I have become more of a militant atheist in the last year or so, for probably a variety of factors. Not the least, however, is that I now have children and I want them to get a quality public education. The American trend of trying to sneak creationism into the schools is directly counter to providing a quality education, IMNSHO.

[demoninho]

Originally posted by Virgil Tibbs
Well, here is my theory. The fundies in the US are more successful of late because of the strategy they've accidently hit on, with the following basis: sensational lies are more interesting than dull truths. A debunking of a sensational lie counts as a dull truth and isn't going to get nearly as much media coverage (the media needs ratings, after all, so the crazier the better). Furthermore, if you lie fast enough its hard to debunk them all, and if you repeat a lie often enough that has been debunked sooner or later people will lose track of whether or not it was debunked.


But why are we not hearing anything over here in Europe, nobody listens to them, even when they are shouting, why are the Americans listening. Are Americans so much more gullible than the Europeans, I can hardly imagine

[KnightWhoSaysNi]

Originally posted by One for Sorrow
Nightshade,

I was just in Calgary, and I had fundies approach me twice! It's never that exciting where I live. Of course, it was Stampede week so maybe that's when all the crazies come out...?


Interesting. It might have been evangelists from elsewhere (esp. from the US) looking for the big crowds to proseltyze. There's also the "Boston Movement" Church of Christ cult that stalks for lonely people to evangelize at my local university campus (though I've personally never encountered them).

Every so often, I might run into Mormon missionaries or Jehovah's Witnesses. I haven't encountered a street preacher in Calgary yet. But overall, my run ins with vocal fundies are rare (with exception of an evangelical friend of mine when I go to his social gatherings). Hell, even Alliance MP Stockwell Day, a fervent evangelical, usually kept his beliefs low key during political speeches.

Jason

[Virgil Tibbs]

Originally posted by demoninho
But why are we not hearing anything over here in Europe, nobody listens to them, even when they are shouting, why are the Americans listening. Are Americans so much more gullible than the Europeans, I can hardly imagine

Well, America is much more fertile ground for this sort of thing. For pretty much the entire Cold War the world situation was painted here as "godless communists" vs. wholesome, god-fearing democracy. A lot of people here still equate (xian)piousness to good and atheism to evil. Hence the at first baffling popularity of our president: as far as I can tell some people here care more about religion than political and social issues (if they even follow them), and are perfectly happy to blindly trust a "born again xian."

I wouldn't be too confident that fundies will never catch on over seas: they make so many outrageous, patently false claims that a even with a tiny success rate a few of them can take root here and there. These guys think they are out to save everyone's soul, so they are very determined.

Tibbs

[4th Generation Atheist]

Originally posted by andy_d
I've noticed a real siege mentality amongst some of the Americans on here.

I can fully understand why this is, but I still don't think it's healthy. They seem to have a lot of anger at religion. I find it hard to believe that anyone can be truly rational about something that always inspries such strong emotion.

In some ways I think they more Anti-Christians than atheists.

Buggered if I know how to recitfy this situation, though. If I was immersed in an overwhelmingly Xian environment, i'd probably tend the same way.

I wouldn't say I'm "more anti-Christian than atheist" (once you're an atheist, how can you be "more" or "less" atheist than you are something else?) but I'd admit to being more "anti"-Xn than "anti"-other religions. Sure, the others are just as irrational in all their different little ways, but it isn't Hinduism or Buddhism or Wicca or even Islam that is taking over our government. It's Xnity, so I definitely have more of what you call a "siege mentality" with regard to than one than the others. The others I disagree with, but I don't see them as especially threatening to my freedom of thought, speech &c.

I'll agree it's not especially healthy---additionally, getting pissed off makes it harder for me to do the very things that might help, since most of these require keeping one's reason intact. I didn't have this issue a few years ago. I didn't even have it when I was a small child and was bullied because my parents were atheists; the reasons didn't seem to be all that relevant compared to a need for a rational means to cope with the bullying (I chose martial arts, but that's another story). But now I am faced with a situation where a solid kick or punch won't solve the problem. I know next to nothing about effective politics, and like most non-"joiners" I am not exactly skilled at organizing, so the impression I get is of an enemy who has us woefully outclassed. And contrary to popular belief, having the truth on one's side does not guarantee an automatic win, at least not in the short term (like say a lifetime). This causes the "siege mentality"; perhaps it would fade if I knew a means of fighting back that won't just have us all marched off to camps in a couple of years.:rolleyes:

[ohwilleke]

Intensity of activism is directly related to the degree to which your way of life is threatened.

[RalphyS]

The more theism is pushed in your face and its morality is forced upon you, the more you yourself are hurt by your non-belief and infringed in your rights to non-belief and I suspect the more militant your become about them.

I rarely find religious overexposure to me in this country, but whenever I see Dubya speaking about God, or documentaries of the mission that Fundy Christians are on in the US I'm scared to death that they might get more power. I also fear the muslim fundies, but as of yet they don't seem to have the power that Christianity has over the rulers in the US.

Muslim fundies may be able to hurt several thousands of peoples by terrorist attacks, but a Christian fundy (I think Dubya is some sort of fundy, maybe not hardcore, but still ...) has his fingers on buttons that could destroy this world and he already made statements about how it could be helpfull to use small nuclear weapons in certain cases. He always seems to be on a mission :eek:

I know I would be much more militant if I lived in the US.

[Gothic_J]

on a side note, Im for tacnukes.

but I really, really, really, dont like fundies in control of them.

[Barcode]

I can easily see why atheists would seem " militant " in the U.S.A. My two weeks in Missouri were enough to scare me off for life.

I swear, there must have been a church every hundred yards ... ten churches to every resident I suspect. Oh, and billboards with slogans like " Bad habits? Depressed? Uncontrollable Sex Life? Jesus Saves! " ... I'd like to claim I'm making this up, but if this is the babble you guys have to face on a daily basis then I'm not surprised some atheists turn the tables on the religious.

Back home in the U.K it's not a big deal ... the devout are usually regarded with some suspicion. It's not talked about.

Here in Portugal ... grrrrr ...... it's a cultural thing ... I'd quickly become " militant " if I spent too much time in a predominantly religious country too.

[Mullibok]

Originally posted by mecca777
That's true to an extent, although a lot of people seem to take a Deist/agnostic/apathetic Anglican stance and get a bit sniffy if you insist you're a genuine atheist (though that might be more of a fair-play/politeness issue than a theological one).

Hehe, like Douglas Adams said, the UK has moved from wishy-washy Christianity to wishy-washy agnosticism.

[niggle]

Originally posted by openeyes
But Ventura is gone and we've got an evangelical in his place. He and his minions seem to be doing whatever they can to erase any secular gains or holdings made during Jesse's administration.

I'm not comfortable with the way are state has turned. We've had Republicans in office before, but the latest ones seem to be much more preachy. Unfortunately, they only walk the walk about inconsequential things, like saying they pray and attending church regularly. When it comes to treating others in a charitable manner or fully disclosing financial interests during one's campaign, we can't expect much.

We need to get/stay involved to keep them from thinking they can impose their questionable values on the rest of us.

I agree that the current replacement is pretty terrible, but I'm hoping it was only a backlash from the terrible Wellstone memorial that turned into a political rally. It was essentially a three way race until then. Then Penny (the guy I backed) dropped like a stone. He would have been a great governor to succeed Ventura. Did you see his article in the Star about reforming Social Security?

Anyway, if it was just a backlask, then it'll fall back during the next round of elections. Hopefully.

[Virgil Tibbs]

Originally posted by niggle
I agree that the current replacement is pretty terrible, but I'm hoping it was only a backlash from the terrible Wellstone memorial that turned into a political rally.

Actually, I've read in the Al Franken book that in the event (which was around four hours IIRC), there was only a few minutes of political posturing, which happened because the event was not politically scripted and speakers were allowed to say what they wished without prior approval.

Ironically, the fact that the memorial was not a political ploy was the reason conservatives were able to paint it as such. Had the memorial been carefully planned they would not have allowed anyone to make tasteless and highly partisan remarks.

Pardon me for getting off topic. :)

Tibbs

[cetic]

Originally posted by niggle
I, as an American, feel that the US hit its peak shortly after WW2 and has been on a downward trend since. Many Christians have noticed that and have come to the wrong conclusions for the reasons for it. They all say "we've left God yada yada yada." :rolleyes:

I think its because of our increasing debt, stupidity, and arrogance. Our egos got so inflated after WW2 we thought we were the only ones who knew how to solve the world's problems. I think it's becoming increasingly clear that we don't.


Observing from the outside, I think that your explanation is serious simplification. You have to realize that big churches (and Roman Catholic is definitely #1 in Christian world) always try to get close to those in power. As US is emerging as a world's judge, jury and executioner, Roman Catholic Church, in alliance with Baptists, is trying to get a stronghold there. This is not only a struggle for power, but their struggle for survival, as they do not see their place in globalized, undivided world (something that is probably going to happen within 50-100 years) unless they can find a way to influence political decisions.

So, atheists in US are facing incoming war (not the one with weapons, but some violence is probably going to happen), and it is not going to be nice. Bad thing is that, if you lose this war, we are all going to lose by the end of this century. I do not think that nationwide free thought movement is going to help. You have to get organized, get some money, and act as some kind of political lobby. Then elect your people in several northern states which can create a unified territory. Create safe haven for atheists, and make some of the companies move there, so you can draw more people there. This will make a plausible threat of secession. This is something that big business and creators of NWO can not afford, so radicals are going to be silenced by their current allies.

Also, you should silently support any religions that opposes radical Christianity, and let them fight between themselves.

[Jolly_Penguin]

I have noticed that atheists are more militant in the US than in Canada. But, I also agree with the above posters that this is mostly due to nobody caring if you are religious in Canada.

I think this may have something to do with the focus in the USA on assimilation as opposed to the focus in Canada on diversity. If the US is a melting pot, Canada is a salad bowl.

Canada has so many different minoirty cultures, welcomes them, and even celebrates them. Toronto, a city near where I live, I have found to especially tout its diversity with events like Caribana, etc.

Canadians also have that famous apathy thing going on. We simply are not so easily excited, and don't thrive as much as the US does on conflict and aggresiveness.

[EarlFlynn]

I consider myself a militant atheist, and yet I rarely have to actually fight any battles against religion. I've been approached by fundamentalists only three times: twice by members of the Campus Crusade for Christ while I was attending university, and once by Jehovah's Witnesses who visited us at the Bleak House of Blahs. So it's been at least a decade since anyone tried to convert me.

Sure, there are annoyances from time to time - stupid church billboards and that damnable commercial for the Victory Christian Centre - but by and large, religion hasn't hampered my freedom at all.

This is not to say that Canadians should be complacent; we have our kooks, too, and we should always strive to keep our government and civil society secular.

[CheeseheadHeathen]

I grew up mostly in Southern California, where I wasn't particularly militant...people there (at least in my experience) were unlikely to be very religious (this was in the 70s and 80s, so it may have changed) and diversity in general was a fact of life. I didn't feel the need to be militant there.

I also did a brief stint in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho (my last two years of high school), and I was WAY militant there because of all the Mormons.

I now live in Milwaukee, and I'm somewhere in between. I don't know many true fundies here, but I do know that people here (especially outside the city, in the rural areas where my upteen in-laws live) tend to assume you are either Lutheran or Catholic (apparently that's all they know). When my husband told them I was an atheist, they weren't even sure what that meant (some of them still don't, I suspect).

I think your degree of militancy depends on where in the U.S. you live...but these days, with a bible-thumpin' president and "God Bless America" being played at the freakin' baseball games, well, it's hard not to feel defensive.

In general, I don't get militant until I feel somebody's questioning my right to be an atheist. People can believe whatever the hell they want provided they leave me completely out of it...but when they don't, well, that's a problem.

[Bunny Lover]

Hello,

I only reveal my atheism to people if I'm asked directly about my views on spirituality. Otherwise, live and let live. I don't let a non-issue define me. It seems that many people believe the word "atheist" is synonymous with "asshole," probably due to a small but vocal minority of atheists who believe themselves to be rationally superior to the believing majority. These people are the ones you're describing in your post, after all, people who keep such matters private wouldn't bother going out of their way to sneer at another's observance of faith.

[-FAITH ALONE-]

-Perhaps this is because many atheists here believe religion and

Christianity are the cause of most of the problems in this country

and the world- when it would probably be more suitable to say

religion(most) and Christianity force upon their subjects a

disrespect for those who think differently than them. This, along

with their unbreakable close-mindedness causes them to take

the least best routes when solving problems and sharing

resources with their fellow humans. War, hate, and disrespect

result.

-Our history of isolationism and the fact we were built by the

puritans is likely why this has continued moreso in the states

than other countries

[Benny Hill]

I guess it all depends on how you define the word "militant". It seems that to some of the non-theists here, militant means being open and honest about your lack of belief, choosing to associate with other non-theists while avoiding the company of religious people, not participating in religious events, etc. By that definition, I am definitely militant. I define being militant as harrassing theists or interfering with their right to practice their religion in peace or voice their opinions without being ridiculed, etc. By my definition, I am not militant.

[Crystal Manx]

I'm seeing a bit of a trend. Lately, it seems that atheists are slowly getting louder and more disgruntled. Sooner or later, it might build into a full scale movement. If it starts spreading among the younger generatin, it'll be like wildfire. That's beside the point, though. Yes, some atheists seem to be a little bit too disgruntled. They tend to want to spit fire at the wrong times. This is mostly from atheists who were once fundified, I think. A person who was raised atheist would actually have a little less interest in this sort of board, really, because they aren't filled with feelings of outrage and betrayal. Finding out you have been indoctrinated into beliefs that you would have thought right away were just stupid if you hadn't been taught not to question them via slaps on the wrist and dangerous looks from parents/teachers would leave anyone disgruntled.

[ComestibleVenom]

Originally posted by One for Sorrow

I was just in Calgary, and I had fundies approach me twice! It's never that exciting where I live. Of course, it was Stampede week so maybe that's when all the crazies come out...?


Interestingly, Alberta has one of the highest rates of Atheism in Canada AND a reputation for fundamentalism. A moderate place to be were it not for the God damned winter.

[Radcliffe Emerson]

I say we're more militant, because we have to deal with more fervent believers than any other nation.

I don't count fundamentalist Muslin nations, because non-believers there are killed.

[AspenMama]

Originally posted by Crystal Manx
A person who was raised atheist would actually have a little less interest in this sort of board, really, because they aren't filled with feelings of outrage and betrayal.
Well I don't know about that. I was raised as an atheist-- or at least raised to question and figure things out for myself. I came to this board orginally because of the many times that had been deeply hurt by a religion in one or another of its forms. Where I went to school as a child in Salt Lake City-- the teachers knew I wasn't a member of the church and would treat me with prejudice. I was attacked by some older girls once in a church. But what finally made me seek out this community was when my conservative Catholic husband told me he was gay after 11 years of marriage. If it wasn't for his religious upbringing, I don't think I would have found myself in that situation. This was to me, an ultimate betrayal. But as an activist in the atheist community, I also advocate for a more gentle approach-- to show by example that I am a good moral person. My main goals are really social right now-- bringing together atheists in my community for fun and camaraderie. And to provide non-religous support to those in need.

[cetic]

Originally posted by AspenMama
Well I don't know about that. I was raised as an atheist-- or at least raised to question and figure things out for myself. I came to this board orginally because of the many times that had been deeply hurt by a religion in one or another of its forms. Where I went to school as a child in Salt Lake City-- the teachers knew I wasn't a member of the church and would treat me with prejudice. I was attacked by some older girls once in a church. But what finally made me seek out this community was when my conservative Catholic husband told me he was gay after 11 years of marriage. If it wasn't for his religious upbringing, I don't think I would have found myself in that situation. This was to me, an ultimate betrayal. But as an activist in the atheist community, I also advocate for a more gentle approach-- to show by example that I am a good moral person. My main goals are really social right now-- bringing together atheists in my community for fun and camaraderie. And to provide non-religous support to those in need.

One can see that you are seriously in activism by what you say. I think that your approach is the best, as it hits straight in the hart of fundy talk.

They claim repetedly (and it is the essential part of their propaganda) that they have monopoly on human decency. If you are not fundy, you (by definition) can not be nice person, as you are to certain extent in alliance with Devil. BTW, this is the thing that makes me really angry - them claiming that if you do not beleive in their entity, you are incapable of feeling love, caring about other fellow humans etc.

If we can show by personal example, on a level of local community, that atheists can be nice, polite, loving people that help their neighbours, and by these actions we gain certain level of respect, fundy talk will disperse as unfounded.

[KnightWhoSaysNi]

Originally posted by EarlFlynn
This is not to say that Canadians should be complacent; we have our kooks, too, and we should always strive to keep our government and civil society secular.

Uggh, we sure as hell do (http://www.tv.cbc.ca/national/pgminfo/ludwig/), occasionally. :banghead:

Jason

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Nightshade

[OP snipped]

I don't know whether I'm a militant atheist or not. It depends on what one means. If it means holding that my atheism is indefeasable and fervently wishing for the end to all religion, then I'm not. Never having been indoctrinated into theism, I don't carry around a chip on my shoulder, and try to regard theism with a tolerant eye. However, I do feel that there are some forms of theism which are dangeous and inimical to the Enlightenment philosophy the US was founded on (an extreme example being Christian Reconstructionism, which seeks to overturn the US Constitution and revamp our entire political system based on Old Testament law).

I would like to see atheism less reviled, and to that end I am always frank about my atheism and don't seek to encode it in words like "agnosticism" or "bright", because I feel that if we are to ever move forward towards greater acceptance of atheists, theists must be aware that atheists are not necessarily slavering monsters or nihilists, but ordinary people: their neighbors, friends, coworkers, etc. I sometimes hear expressions of surprise, because of the tacit assumption that someone who donates effort and money to charitable work, abides by the law, and has a fairly tranquil disposition (if I do say so myself :)) is necessarily a theist, rather than just atheist. The response is pleasing--I haven't had anyone drop a friendship with me, and the worst I've encountered has been a bit of lively, but mutually respectful, debate on the validity of theism. Granted, I live in San Diego and attend UCSD, which is a public university and therefore both diverse and non-religious, and anyone who has a problem with that is likely not to last long in the tolerant atmosphere. Of course, I suppose torturing Campus Crusaders ("Door to Door Christians" thread) isn't necessarily one with being benevolent towards theists in general, but I have to have a hobby. :p

My atheism also guides me to certain political philosophies (classical liberalism) which inform my participation in the political process. When I had only just become old enough to vote, I campaigned against a proposition which would forbid gay marriage in the state of California (which, sadly, passed with about 60% of the vote :() because I regard marriage as largely a civil matter, unrelated to the church. If a particular church does not wish to conduct a marriage ceremony for homosexuals, that's a right they have under the first amendment, but any loving homosexual couple should be able to receive a marriage license and be married in a civil service (if no church will have them) in the interests of equal rights. I also am a member of the American Civil Liberties Union and the National Center for Science Education.

All this is, I suppose, an extremely long way of saying "My atheism informs what I do and how I interact with people, but I don't walk around with a chip on my shoulder." :D

[AspenMama]

Wow, Kevin. Again, very nicely put!

[Adora]

Could it be that they are simply balancing out the power of the militant conservative Christian's in power? Or that the minor subculture is more obvious thanks to the predominance of Christian theism as a powerful socical force, and has to defend itself more rabidly?

I don't know, since I don't live there, but I'm just curious what insiders think.

[Luna]

Where I'm from I have to lay low. People here could get neanderthal on you if you question their religion.... and then noone to back you up.
Hell, I think I'm the only atheist I know .... personally.

But I do go around with my head high, never denying my true beliefs.

So yes, people are more militant in the U.S., down here, atheist go around so quietly, it's almost imposible to know who they are.

[Gar]

Yes and no.

It really varies depending on the region. I have experience with people from the south and the northeast. I grew up in New Jersey and now go to school in Boston. However my mother's entire side of the family is from Kentucky and *very* fundamentalist.

The south is very "in your face", but in the northeast it is basically a non-issue. People will tend to shy away from "strong" words like "atheist" but it usually just never comes up in everyday conversation.

I was talking to my friend who lives in Ohio and says they are still very fundamentalist there but not as loud about it as they are in the south.

[Barefoot Bree]

Originally posted by Adora
Could it be that they are simply balancing out the power of the militant conservative Christian's in power? Or that the minor subculture is more obvious thanks to the predominance of Christian theism as a powerful socical force, and has to defend itself more rabidly?

I don't know, since I don't live there, but I'm just curious what insiders think.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Adora. We're loud because the fundies holding prayer vigils on state courthouse steps are even louder, and if we don't speak up, they'll roll right over us.