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ohwilleke
September 8, 2003, 08:29 PM
Fall is back in swing. This means that churches now have services that are not unreasonably early in the morning. This means that my wife now wants to start going to church again after a summer hiatus.

She went, with the kids (2 & 4) to the local UU church this week. Evaluation: The sermon was good, the music sucked, and I don't know a soul after having gone there on and off for almost a year.
Conclusion: She may want to look for a new church.

This places me in an awkward position. So far, I have taken a "do what you please stance", providing transportation (we are a one car family), but no more. And, UU was a step in the right direction . . . from Presbyterian. But, now she is talking about going to a church within walking distance of our home. This reduces my direct involvement, but also means that the choices are decidely more Christian. There is a fundie church, a Presbyteran church, a United Church of Christ, a few Catholic churches, an ELCA Lutheran, a Missouri Synod Lutheran, and a "Community of Chirst" (i.e. St. Louis Mormon) church within walking range. There is a different UU church about a similar drive away (i.e. a few miles away) and a Quaker meeting house not too far away.

She has remarked that the ELCA, for example, has too much "Christ" stuff, and is a bit complicated, and hasn't been able to articulate clear reasons why she needs to go, but clearly does want to get involved with something. She also notes, accurately, that its very close, that the music is much better than UU, that it is an intimate setting, and that I didn't turn out so bad after going to such a church growing up. I'm not worried that she will go to a fundie church like Missouri synod.

I am worried that she will get involved in a mainline Christian church again (by itself not so bad) and will insist on getting the kids actively involved as well.

So, what do I do? Say nothing, despite the fact that I have strong feelings about it and they are my kids too? Suggest a church in an effort to find the lesser of evils? Strongly suggest abandoning the church thing all together against resistance in an area that has so far been her private affair? Or, encourage her to give the local UU more of a chance, possibly even getting actively involved even though I really don't want to?

This comes across a backdrop of minor issues.

About a month ago, she got a Veggie Tales at the library for the kids. Most Veggie Tales videos are pure Biblical allegory. I looked at the cover and honestly couldn't pin any familiar bible stories to it (despite having a pretty strong religous education myself) and she said the kids really liked it (and had mixed feelings about Shrek, which was also rented and a little too old for our kids). A few weeks later my daughter had picked (apparently of her own accord) a video at the library featuring an animated catapillar that was billed as the Jesus Story. That one "got lost" for a week in our book cases and was returned on the due date. I'm sure my daughter thought nothing of it other than wanting to see animated bugs.

Meanwhile, it has gotten to be time to plan for December. It is my parents turn for us to visit then. Some secular people like the secular side of Christmas, but I really don't. I've also wanted to have that season at home for once, but don't know if that is socially acceptable. My parents are particularly fundie, although they've grown somewhat more religious. My wife and the kids would probably go to an early Christmas eve service, and we'd have presents under the tree.

It isn't that there aren't bright spots. I was reading my daughter a story about the Sandman, and I asked her what she thought about the Sandman and she said that "The Sandman isn't real." One of her good friends is from a secular family. My wife is herself careful about monitoring what is happening with another of her friends who is very evangelically religious. We've avoided MOPS (a religous pre-school parents organization).

But, life is so damn complicated. It is one thing when the outside world is beating at your door and you have to fend it off in a unified front. It is another, when you spouse, who is the stay at home parent with primary child care responsibilities has different feelings about religious issues than you do -- not fervantly different, but enough to be uncomfortable. Suggestions are welcome.

never been there
September 8, 2003, 09:03 PM
Just off the top of my head, I think this is a perfect example of a time for "we" talk. "I" statements are going to be almost as bad as "you" statements.

Something like (after a glass of wine or two and a movie you both enjoy): "We've muddled along well so far, but it's only fair that we figure out what we're going to tell the kids to give them a message we both stand by about the fact that we believe different things. What do you think we should say to them?"

I'd probably be chicken and not say anything until I'd left it too late, but if you can't say nothing at all that would seem to be the least risky way of opening the discussion. In other words, talk it over in bed, not across the table.

SiliconWolf
September 9, 2003, 01:10 AM
Wow, that's a lot of churches within a couple miles :eek:

I will just address the denomination question here and leave the rest for someone else. The United Church of Christ (I think they're sometimes called Congregationalists) is probably the second most liberal denomination in your list (UU being the first). Be careful not to confuse it with "Church of Christ" or something like that (no "United"), which can be on the fundy side. From the little I know of the Quakers, they might not be a good fit for your wife (research them yourself to learn more; I hear their meetings are very introspective and quiet). I doubt the Catholics and Presbyterians would seem much different than Lutherans to an untrained eye.

DigitalChicken
September 9, 2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by ohwilleke
Suggestions are welcome.

Suggestions about what? There is a lot here.

DC

three4jump
September 9, 2003, 02:38 PM
One thing that churches offer is a sense of community, which may be what your wife is seeking more than any ideology. Atheism is not very good at that. Where is the atheist community? I personally would like to belong to a community. I can't go to church, which has a built-in community, because the basis of that community is so obviously false and manipulative. The closest thing I've found to an atheist community is this board, which I have found to be adversarial, mostly.

While this doesn't help your immediate situation, I sometimes feel that there ought to be neighborhood atheist churches, where you can take your children and they can see families interacting without any mention of god. I don't think this will happen anytime soon. Atheists are often very independent, and not joiners.

southernhybrid
September 10, 2003, 08:39 AM
It actually sounds like you have a very lovely family and your problems are not that difficult to overcome.

I think it would be best to keep encouraging your wife to attend the UU Church. Do you ever attend with her? That might make it more enjoyable for her. I hate church but even I could stomach an occassional UU meeting. I don't think you need to worry about your children being brainwashed in the UU Church and it's probably a good place to learn some comparative religion and tolerance.

You might also see if there are any organized freethought groups in your community. Perhaps your chldren would enjoy that option once a month especially when they're a little older, in exchange for your attending church with their mom once a month.

Roland98
September 10, 2003, 11:02 AM
It may be helpful to describe your wife's religious beliefs a bit more in detail; you mention she's uncomfortable with some of the "Christ" stuff at the Lutheran church--why? Is she a nominal theist, or a lax Christian, or "other?"

I've been attending a UU church off and on (I'm often busy on Sundays); it has two ministers (I think the "official" minister and a lay minister). The former stinks; the latter is awesome. One reason I wanted to attend was because I've heard raves about their Sunday School program for the kids (mine are almost the same age as yours; 3 1/2 and 18 months). That starts next week, so I can't comment on it myself yet. I haven't heard anything, though, that's been offensive to atheists (indeed, the lay minister describes himself as a humanist, and attacked the UU president's comments on including more religious language into the denomination). I think it couldn't hurt to attend with your wife and the kids one Sunday; personally, I know it's a bit tough to keep the kids in line and meet people on my own. IMO, it might be better to at least try this before your wife attends a more Christian church.