Girl Scouts......

[Rider]

The post about cub/boy scouts brought this to the front of my periatal lobe (sp), my daughter wants to join girl scouts... is there anything religious in this group, does anyone have any horror stories or good stories to share, I would really like an opinion before signing her up. She is 6 years old.

Thanks in advance.

-Rider

[2tadpoles]

Well, I have boys, but I used to be a Girl Scout. There was a minimal amount of religious stuff.... like the word "God" in the oath. The GSA, as I recall hearing, has allowed girls to insert the deity of there choice in the oath (On my honor, I will try to serve God, my country, and mankind...)

We sang songs occasionally like "He's got the whole world in his hands." Really, I think it just all depends on who the troop leader is.

I don't believe they have any religious requirements, as do the Boy Scouts. I know I never had to fulfill any, but I quit after sixth grade.

[SiliconWolf]

I remember reading a while ago that the Girl Scouts do NOT have the same theist policies that the Boy Scouts do. Unfortunately I can't find the source at the moment.

[TerriNPA]

I was a girl scout from brownie to cadet. The only religious thing I remember is at the end of our meetings we would stand in a circle crossing our arms holding the person beside us hands and singing "day is done gone the sun from the lakes from the hills from the skies all is well safely rest god is nigh" (which I never sang the last three words)...

I know the boy scouts are far worse (probably have seen a few articles where nonbelieving boys were ousted cuz of their disbelief in a god(s)).

[Shake]

Official site of Girl Scouts USA (http://www.girlscouts.org/)

from there:The Girl Scout Promise and Law

Girl Scouting is a values-based organization, not a religious one. The Girl Scout Promise and Law are its guiding principles.


The Girl Scout Promise

On my honor, I will try:
To serve God and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.


The word "God" can be interpreted in a number of ways, depending on one's spiritual beliefs. When reciting the Girl Scout Promise, it is okay to replace the word "God" with whatever word your spiritual beliefs dictate.

The Girl Scout Law

I will do my best to be
honest and fair,
friendly and helpful,
considerate and caring,
courageous and strong, and
responsible for what I say and do,
and to
respect myself and others,
respect authority,
use resources wisely,
make the world a better place, and
be a sister to every Girl Scout.
Sounds pretty decent to me, a former Boy Scout. If I had a daughter, I'd let her join.

[lisarea]

I was a girl scout, too. Yeah, there are a few mentions of god here and there, but to be honest, I hardly noticed them.

Most of what I remember was doing lots of camping and learning things like rescue and lifeguarding and CPR and stuff. We even had boys sneak into our troop for camping trips and such (I think they were the co-leader's sons or something) because it was so much cooler than the stupid boy scouts. Ha ha!

I'd certainly let her join. If you're concerned, you might want to volunteer as a troop leader or something, because I suspect individual leaders make executive decisions about how things like that are approached.

[abe smith]

I was a Girl Scout back in the 1930s way before most of you-all were born... It was the great Depression; of which you all are ignorant. We had wonderful times; penny-pinching; fun; trips ; camping; NY world's fair of 1939. I learned a lot; skills, self-confidence (That took another couple of decades, into my 30s, to begin paying-off.)
As previous posters point out, there was some "god" stuff ,, personal-abstract ( a reasonable oxymoron) built-into the events; that quatrain to TAPS, and the end-of-the-meetings
circle. At that time I was a young & practising Episcopalian, so that stuff didn't feaze me much.
As a genetic and "made" singleton/loner, I didn't become much more "social" from my Scout experience.
If I had daughters & granddaughters now, I'd be content if they joined the Girl Scouts. The whole business of puberty and puberty jokes & mysteries, blood....; I always felt myself an outsider; but being a Scout maybe tempered that somewhat.
And now, a Grand*father* and in my late 70s, I wonder how many others of my age-cohort, former Girl scouts, grew up to be queer; transgendered.....
The Organization's attitudes & behaviours about religion and all that god-stuff are VERY much different from those of the Boy Scouts. GirlScouts are much more tolerant and inclusive; you can look up recent news reports about that.

I recommend you let or encourage your girls to join.

[xxthe_leewitxx]

I think most well-adjusted girls will have fun and gain a lot from being in Girl Scouts... I was never that well-adjusted, though, and I got tortured a lot by the more 'popular' and richer daughters of the troop leaders (being one of the few children of middle-class, working parents in a more affluent school at the time, and an oddball free-thinker even then). I would probably take the advice of lisarea and try to be involved in the troop in some way, because who's running things definitely will influence the experience your child will have. One of our troop leaders was a beautiful and kind woman (who knows how her daughter was the monster that she was, I think it was influence of the rabidly right-wing daddy, hmm), but the other two troop leaders were, shall we say, a little more elitist and joined their daughters in making me feel very left out at times.

On the upside, I learned to ride horses, took formal swimming lessons, and learned a little about camping from all those years in Girl Scouts. I even made a few friends, not within my troop, but when I went to summer camp. Oh, and I learned many, many annoying songs that will be with me for years to come! :banghead:

I've decided that when (and if) I have daughters, they will be free to join Girl Scouts if they want, but that I will be a lot more involved than my mom was able to be. Young girls can be very cruel to those that are 'different'.

[abe smith]

:your statements of your own experiences & recollections are the ultimately-valid documents, prior Person = xx the leewitxx. Perhaps it's only My Advanced Age/Ache that allows me to have forgotten or blurred experience very similar to your own. Welcome to us-here; glad you found us; settle-in & be one of us. Cordially, Abe/grandpa.

[2tadpoles]

Originally posted by xxthe_leewitxx
I think most well-adjusted girls will have fun and gain a lot from being in Girl Scouts... I was never that well-adjusted, though, and I got tortured a lot by the more 'popular' and richer daughters of the troop leaders

I find that interesting, because my troop was full of nerdy, oddball kids. The "rich and popular" didn't seem to have much interest in scouting in that time and place.

[TomboyMom]

The girl scouts are cool. They promote diversity and empowering girls. Also upper echelons are rife with lesbians. My 8 year old belongs. Go for it.

Rene

[xxthe_leewitxx]

I find that interesting, because my troop was full of nerdy, oddball kids. The "rich and popular" didn't seem to have much interest in scouting in that time and place.
I started Girl Scouts in the mid-to-late eighties in an upper-middle class suburb of Houston. It was a highly-praised school district, which was why we lived there... my mother wanted me to go to good schools. We weren't the only working-class family in the area, by any means, but my troop was somehow composed of the more white-collar, slightly more affluent kids with the stay-at-home moms who were more interested with status than most anything else. Thinking about it now, I was a part of a Bluebirds troop before I was in G.S. which ended up breaking up for some reason, and I had a lot of fun with those girls... the troop leader was a single working mom, I guess they were more what you'd call 'our people' at the time.

Later on during my time in scouts our troop was joined with another troop, due to dropping membership rolls... now that other troop, THAT was the troop to be a part of! They were the oddballs and the nerds, and I would have fit right in with them. I wished heartily that I'd have been in that troop from the start. However, by the time that happened, I was already so sick of dealing with the some of the other girls who I'd started with that I quit.

Once again, I think it comes down to involvement. My mom worked and didn't have the time to be nearly as involved as she would have liked. I know she knew what the other moms were like, but I don't think she really understood what the other GIRLS were like.

[2tadpoles]

I became a Brownie in 1977, and was out of scouting altogether by 1982. We got a new troop leader, and I didn't like her. She ran things like it was a classroom, and Dog knows I didn't need any more school-like environment, as I was a poor fit for school. Our previous leader was much more fun, as she developed most of our activities around what we wanted to do, rather than what she thought we should do.

[AspenMama]

In my various experiences with scouting, it has been a mixed bag. When I was in the brownies or bluebirds, I had a grand time. But when I became a girl scout, I soundly disliked sitting around talking about merit badges, but never doing anything, or going camping with women who didn't know how to camp.

I went to official summer camps twice. The first time was hard work, but a lot of fun-- the second time, it was pure agony. I ditched girl scouts soundly and became an unofficial member of the boy scouts. I put on a heavy backpack, hiked in with a bunch of pre- teen boys across streams, up mountains and through woods. (My father and brothers along here as well). We cooked our own meals and pitched our own tents. The ghost stories were great. It beat the heck out of what the girls were offering me at the time. I'm by no means of the imagination a tomboy either.

In conclusion, I'd recommend carefully selecting a troop, and being very involved.

[Bright Life]

Something to keep in mind...If you get into this, you're eventually going to be schlepping around a load o' cookies. The troop will only get a small portion of the funds, while the rest will go to the national headquarters.

[Never]

I've been on both ends. I was a Girl Scout all through school. I enjoyed it. I was a Brownie leader for 2 1/2 years and am about to take the troup back after a couple years off. :banghead:
Do check out the troop/leader carefully. The organization itself seems to be fine. There are the few leftover god words in the pledge or a song, but I haven't seen it mentioned otherwise. My girls really enjoy the activities. We went camping about 6 weeks ago. Pitched our tent, cooked outside, used the latrine, the whole 9 yards - including swimming and canoeing.
Last years leader was awful though. She was just plain mean to my younger one and she and her family cussed like sailors in front of the girls which is just plain rude. So if the kids are going to continue which they want to, I - the working mother - has to do it again. The stay at home moms are afraid to "be in charge". :rolleyes:

[XtrueOloveX]

Being in the Girl Scouts was a lot of fun...it's a great chance for your daughter to make some good and potentially lifelong friends.

[abe smith]

On behalf of humankind, "Never" and caring Mother, thanks to you for putting your time (with all the rest you have to do!), your intellects, and your imagination into making lives better, more exciting and illuminating for that bunch of young females. All such shd be lucky enough to find a grown-up like you!.

[crazyfingers]

Here is a story on the Girl Scouts

While the Boy Scouts require youths to swear to do their duty to God, the Girl Scout Promise, revised in 1993, now comes with an asterisk: When girls pledge "To serve God and my country," they may replace "God" with "whatever word your spiritual beliefs dictate."

If a Girl Scout doesn't believe in a higher power, she can skip "to serve God" altogether.

"Whatever your belief system is, that's what fits in that space," said Noor Passmore, program manager for the Girls Scouts Columbia River Council.


Girl Scout article (http://www.oregonlive.com/living/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/living/1063454193187750.xml)

[Shake]

Originally posted by crazyfingers
Here is a story on the Girl Scouts

While the Boy Scouts require youths to swear to do their duty to God, the Girl Scout Promise, revised in 1993, now comes with an asterisk: When girls pledge "To serve God and my country," they may replace "God" with "whatever word your spiritual beliefs dictate."

If a Girl Scout doesn't believe in a higher power, she can skip "to serve God" altogether.

"Whatever your belief system is, that's what fits in that space," said Noor Passmore, program manager for the Girls Scouts Columbia River Council.


Girl Scout article (http://www.oregonlive.com/living/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/living/1063454193187750.xml) Yup. See my post above.

[Rider]

Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated. I think I will allow her to do this because she wants to do it badly. I like seeing my daughter happy, but I hate thinking about that I cannot protect her. This is a problem for me that I have to fix.

Also, the problem with becoming a troop leader is that I do not believe they would let a man be the leader of a girl scout troop. Not sure though. Anyway I have little time to do it.

I will meet her troop leader though, I like knowing who my daughter is with.

[abe smith]

Your carefulness about protecting your (prepubertal? pubertal?) daughter is admirable. Doing that as her presumably-only parent is your most important task, Natural-Selection-wise. (In addition to your job of feeding, housing , etc her.)
Good luck to you, Guy. It's not going to be easy; that's for certain. Maybe you need to pray (sic) for all the help you can get. Try to behave so that she can keep on trusting you; and tell you what's on her mind. (Boy, I'm glad I'm out from under that, now.)

[Never]

Originally posted by Rider
Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated. I think I will allow her to do this because she wants to do it badly. I like seeing my daughter happy, but I hate thinking about that I cannot protect her. This is a problem for me that I have to fix.

Also, the problem with becoming a troop leader is that I do not believe they would let a man be the leader of a girl scout troop. Not sure though. Anyway I have little time to do it.

I will meet her troop leader though, I like knowing who my daughter is with.

I think you might be surprised. I know of men in our area who are registered Girl Scouts and work with troups. There was a male adult at camp with his daughter and several working with the Council. There were several male chaperones at an all night event we attended. One of the rules is that there needs to be 2 adults with the group anyway (no doubt to assure there is no accusation of impropriety) so what does it matter if one is a dad? If you have a little time to spare, you might volunteer to help with a meeting or event here or there rather than be a leader. They will be grateful.

[MilitantModerate]

Some discussion wrt Scouts, etc. in the
latter part of this thread of a year ago:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36455&highlight=scouts

[Never]

I've been cruising the web this weekend looking for ideas and preparing for our first meeting tomorrow. I bumped into this link:

http://www.girlscouts.org/adults/beliefs.html

and particularly liked this paragraph:

"Even if your troop is all of one faith, the Girl Scout meeting is not an appropriate place for prayers and hymns. Girl Scouts is not a religious organization. "

[Barefoot Bree]

Oh, absolutely, let her join, and "join" yourself!! I was a Daisy leader for 3 years - they're the new first-level girl scouts, kindergarten and first grade - and had a blast! In fact, I first became the leader when my younger daughter joined, then stayed at that level even after she "graduated" to brownies, because the daisies are so much more fun!

I have some issues with the GSA organization, because the higher the level, the more they get into both fund-raising and career choices - every single badge has at least one required activity that centers on how to make the subject a career! But at the daisy level, we just did crafts, sang songs, played games, etc.

HOWEVER, the worst part of being a leader is the lack of help!! Leaders ALWAYS, ALWAYS need help - volunteer co-leaders are the scarcest commodity in scouting. All the parents just love to have their girls in scounting, but vanish like mist when asked to take a hand. I never had a dad volunteer, but I sure as shit would have gratefully accepted!!

The most important message is what others have said in this thread: it all depends on the character of the leader. You have one that's in it for fun, like me, and your girl will have a blast. (And I NEVER allowed any picking-on, cliques, or one-up-manship.) You have one that's in it for prestige or power, or who isn't having fun herself for whatever reason, and your girl won't have fun. Period.

So get to know the leader, volunteer to help, and if it's not a good fit, see about changing troops. If you're in a large population area, there would be many other troops around. There might even be a second troop in your school, although you might have to join one at another school. There's nothing in the regs saying you HAVE to join the one at your school.

Regards, Barefoot Bree

[Jet Black]

Originally posted by TerriNPA
I was a girl scout from brownie to cadet.

I like brownies, but I couldn't eat a whole one.

[Madkins007]

I am a theist (please, put the stones down!) and a Boy Scout leader, but I do not support the BSA in the 'anti-other' philosophy it has, but I gotta tell you that FUNCTIONALLY, there ain't much religion happening in the BSA in the field either!

As for the GS, one thing I hear over and over again is that (even more than in the BSA) the leader makes or breaks the unit.

Sign your daughter up, and get involved yourself. Helping kids is great!