Your language and your world

[demoninho]

Does the language some one speaks, affect the way they see the world, solve problems and view ethics?

[contracycle]

Certianly some think so. I know I find bilingualism fascinating becuase you see the same concept expressed, essentially, through two different histories. I think everyone should be bilingual (at least).

More significantly, there have been arguments, with which I am nor greatly familiar, that linguistics is a very important dissection of expressed thought and therefore thought. Some might even argue that apience develops in response to improved capacity for vocalisation. Its a very interesting question IMO.

[Darth Dane]

If you take the language used of those who live in mountains and compare it to those who live at the sea you will see differences. The same with countries, and cultures.

Considering the bible statement, that all spoke one language but divided it up, could be an indication that it is a smart thing to learn multiple languages, to gain a greater understanding.







DD - Love & Laughter

[demoninho]

I have been really stuck with the question because it's so hard to distinguish from culture and genetics.

For instance many great classical physicist spoke english but QM and relativity are mostly products of german speakers, there also seem to be quite a few famous hungarian mathematicians (especially for such a small obscure peoples) but this could all have been because of practical reasons and not the thinking process caused by language.

Latin languages always seem to be a bit fuzzy, unprecise and far less to the point than the germanic languages and so their societies seem to be well, a bit chaotic.

Anyway there are so many explanations which seem all plausible

[PaulPritchard]

Originally posted by demoninho
Does the language some one speaks, affect the way they see the world, solve problems and view ethics?

I'm not convinced. Certainly it is easier to convey ideas if all involved are native speakers of the same language, but as new ideas and objects become introduced into a society lnaguage tends to change in order to accomdate them.

[PaulPritchard]

Originally posted by demoninho
For instance many great classical physicist spoke english but QM and relativity are mostly products of german speakers, there also seem to be quite a few famous hungarian mathematicians (especially for such a small obscure peoples) but this could all have been because of practical reasons and not the thinking process caused by language.

I'd tend to assume that the reasons are more practical than lingistic.

If a scientist makes a significant breakthrough, he will attract people interested in his branch of science. This then increases the chance of his institution becoming a centre of excellence for that branch of science leading to relatively more work being done at that institution than elsewhere.

[XtrueOloveX]

That's a pretty interesting question. I speak both English and Spanish, and where I am from, Mexico, is a predominantly Catholic country. It is actually vice versa there. Their beliefs, the way they solve problems, and to a small extent the way they see the world affects their language. For example, here when we hope something good happens to us, we might say, "I hope ------- happens. In Mexico, they like to say "Si Dios quiere" which means "If it is God's will". Funny...I never noticed that until now.

[Skyfurnace]

Well, your language really depends on what your parents taught you as a child. This of couse all depends are where your parents live/came from. So in my opinion, it would actually be your region or eithnicity that would affect the way one sees the world, not simply the language.

If you're bilingual, certainly it would help you to better interpret another language. But, for instance, knowing the French language would not make you see the world from a French perspective, but perhaps help to better understand it.

[demoninho]

In Science and Sanity, Korzybski hinted at the practical implications of this structure even within a particular, apparently ?unified? languaculture: "We do not realize what tremendous power the structure of an habitual language has. It is not an exaggeration to say that it enslaves us through the mechanism of s.r [semantic or evaluational reactions] and that the structure which a language exhibits, and impresses upon us unconsciously, is automatically projected upon the world around us."

here (http://www.driveyourselfsane.com/dtibook/whatwedowithlanguage.html)

The debate still seems undecided according to the linked article. I'm just wondering what you guys think, not just on how we see the world but if certain languages also make different brain pathways making it easier to think mathematically or metaphysically.

[DoubleDutchy]

Originally posted by demoninho
Does the language some one speaks, affect the way they see the world, solve problems and view ethics?

In my experience, yes, but it is a tricky matter to find out why. I use four languages on regular basis but I learnt and use those in rather different social contexts. Talking to small kids for instance I feel much more at home in Swiss-German dialect than in Dutch (my mother-tongue) ; since I had my own kids in Switzerland this might just be due to lack of experience.
On the other hand I have a strong feeling that some authors can't really be translated, but I am not sure whether this is due to language or to the amount of common social background that is required to enjoy/understand them.

[Nantko]

Originally posted by demoninho
Does the language some one speaks, affect the way they see the world, solve problems and view ethics?
Misschien. :D

Languages differ in the way they describe concepts. Often idioms reflect cultural background, if not prejudice.

Language often reflects social position, and I don't doubt that people from different social positions have different approaches to social and ethical questions.

OTOH the relative ease in which most languages can be translated into others seems to indicate that these differences may not reside in a particular language itself, but in the social construction from which the language originated.
--
Now drinking: Westmalle dubbel

[Ensign Steve]

Originally posted by demoninho
Does the language some one speaks, affect the way they see the world, solve problems and view ethics?

Interesting question! One small bit of trivia I always found interesting was that the Spanish word for "should" is the same as the one for "must." (Deber) So in the Spanish language the phrase, "I should take my grandmother out shopping this weekend, but I don't have to," would be meaningless. The distinction always spoke to me of a difference in the sense of duty and obligation in (some) Spanish-speaking cultures versus (some) English-speaking cultures.

I doubt that the value is a result of the language, however, but more that the language evolved as a function of the value.

[premjan]

I think language is a product of culture. in some cases, languages are entirely manufactured entities.

what people do and how they live affects the way they think affects the way they talk.

[Clutch]

Originally posted by Darth Dane
If you take the language used of those who live in mountains and compare it to those who live at the sea you will see differences. Yes, the ones who live in the mountains will talk about mountains more.

This may be caused by their living in the mountains.

[Ensign Steve]

Originally posted by Clutch
Yes, the ones who live in the mountains will talk about mountains more.

This may be caused by their living in the mountains.

Yah, and Eskimos have like a million words for "snow."

But nobody ever mentions the fact that desert folks have a million words for "hot."

[Clutch]

Originally posted by Ensign Steve
Yah, and Eskimos have like a million words for "snow."

But nobody ever mentions the fact that desert folks have a million words for "hot." Geoff Pullum's "The Great Eskimo Vocabulary Hoax" is probably the locus classicus on this. A brief summary of the point is here. (http://www.ling.ed.ac.uk/linguist/issues/5/5-1239.html)

[Ensign Steve]

Aw, clutch, you're making me wish I hadn't edited the :rollseyes: smiley out of my post. It was in there, but then I took it out because I didn't want to show anything less than the utmost respect for the noble Eskimo people. ;)

[Clutch]

Originally posted by Ensign Steve
Aw, clutch, you're making me wish I hadn't edited the :rollseyes: smiley out of my post. It was in there, but then I took it out because I didn't want to show anything less than the utmost respect for the noble Eskimo people. ;) Dontcha worry, JD, the rolling eyes (and frothing mouth) were there in every word.
;) :D :rolleyes:

:)

I just thought the link gave a tidy summary of the situation.

[Keith Russell]

Remember, too, that just because one speaks a language, doesn't mean that one speaks it well...

K

[DoubleDutchy]

Originally posted by Keith Russell
Remember, too, that just because one speaks a language, doesn't mean that one speaks it well...

K
:notworthy Good point indeed.