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oneofshibumi
September 20, 2003, 10:45 PM
JTR Website: Hate Website or Semitic Criticalist
(a) The topic of the debate.
How would a fair-minded person classify the JTR Website?: Hate-Website or Semitic Criticalist Website

(b) The participants of the debate, and what positions they will argue.
Semitic Criticalist definition truthfully describes the reality of the Jewish Tribal Review Website against any other definition, including Hate-Website.

(c) The scope of the debate.
??????

(d) The length of the debate, in number of rounds (no more than 10 rounds per debate).

3 Rounds

(e) Whether statements will be made concurrently or in turns, and if the latter, who goes first.
Concurrently

(f) The maximum length of each statement (no more than 5,000 words per statement).
5,000 words per statement


(g) The maximum duration between statements.

1 week

(h) The extent to which quotes from outside sources will be permitted (absolutely no copyright violation or outright plagiarism will be allowed).

The more the merrier.


(i) The starting date of the debate.

To be discussed

(j) Any additional rules or a debate format that debate participants must observe (subject to moderator approval).


The Question of Standards

As a Criticalist, I believe all knowledge results from a fair-minded thinking. If people use the Criticalist’s definition of fair-minded thinking as a standard, the quality of the debate produce a higher level of knowledge. These are the standards “rules” I wish to use when debating.

What is the definition of fair-minded? We both must agree to a definition. I suggest that fair-mindedness entails a consciousness of the need to treat all viewpoints alike, without reference to one’s own feelings or selfish interests, or the feelings or selfish interests of one’s friends, community, or nation. It implies adherence to intellectual standards (such as accuracy and sound logic), uninfluenced by one’s own advantage or the advantage of one’s group.

Achieving a truly fair-minded state of mind is challenging. It requires us to simultaneously become intellectually humble, intellectually courageous, intellectually empathetic, intellectually honest, intellectually perseverant, confident in reason (as a tool of discovery and learning), intellectual integrity, and intellectually autonomous. Let me define each of the above.

A) I am defining intellectual humility as having a consciousness of the limits of one’s knowledge, including sensitivity to circumstances in which one’s native egocentrism is likely to function self-deceptively. This entails being aware of one’s biases, one’s prejudices, the limitations of one’s viewpoint, and the extent of one’s ignorance. Intellectual humility depends on recognizing that one should not claim more than one actually knows. It does not imply spinelessness or submissiveness. It implies that lack of intellectual pretentiousness, boastfulness, or conceit, combined with insight into the logical foundations, or lack of such foundations, of one’s beliefs.

B) I am defining intellectual courage as having a consciousness of the need to face and fairly address ideas, beliefs, or viewpoints toward which one has strong negative emotions and to which one has not given a serious hearing. Intellectual courage is connected to the recognition that ideas that society considers dangerous or absurd are sometimes rationally justified (in whole or in part). Conclusions and beliefs inculcated in people are sometimes false or misleading. To determine for oneself what makes sense, one must not passively and uncritically accept what one has learned. Intellectual courage comes into play here because there is some truth in some ideas considered dangerous and absurd, and distortion or falsity in some ideas strongly held by social groups to which we belong. People need courage to be fair-minded thinkers in these circumstances. The penalties for nonconformity can be severe.

C) I am defining intellectual empathy as an awareness of the need to imaginatively put oneself in the place of others so as to genuinely understand them. To have intellectual empathy is to be able to accurately reconstruct the viewpoints and reasoning of others and to reason from premises, assumptions, and ideas other than one’s own. This trait also correlates with the willingness to remember occasions when one was wrong in the past despite an intense conviction of being right, and with the ability to imagine being similarly deceived in a case at hand.

D) I am defining intellectual integrity as recognition of the need to be true to one’s own thinking and to hold oneself to the same standards one expects others to meet. It means to hold oneself to the same rigorous standards of evidence and proof to which one holds one’s antagonists—to practice what one advocates for others. It also means to honestly admit discrepancies and inconsistencies in one’s own thought and action, and to be able to identify inconsistencies in one’s own thinking.

E) I am defining intellectual perseverance can be defined as the disposition to work one’s way through intellectual complexities despite the frustration inherent in the task. Some intellectual problems are complex and cannot be easily solved. One has intellectual perseverance when one does not give up in the face of intellectual complexity or frustration. The intellectually perseverant person displays firm adherence to rational principles despite the irrational opposition of others, and has a realistic sense of the need to struggle with confusion and unsettled questions over an extended time to achieve understanding or insight.

F) I am defining intellectual confidence in reason, in the long run, is based on the belief that one’s own higher interests and those of humankind at large will be best served by giving the freest play to reason, by encouraging people to come to their own conclusions by developing their own rational faculties: faith that, with proper encouragement and cultivation, people can learn to think for themselves, form insightful viewpoints, draw reasonable conclusions, think clearly, accurately, relevantly, and logically, persuade each other by appeal to good reason and sound evidence, and become reasonable persons, despite the deep-seated obstacles in human nature and social life. When one has confidence in reason, one is “moved” by reason in appropriate ways. The very idea of reasonability becomes one of the most important values and a focal point in one’s life. In short, to have confidence in reason is to use good reasoning as the fundamental criterion by which to judge whether to accept or reject any belief or position.

The reason for these rules is because people tend to have uncritical or “blind” faith in one or more of the following. They often—but not always—have this faith as a result of irrational drives and emotions.

1. Faith in charismatic national leaders (think of leaders such as Hitler/Bush Jr., able to excite millions of people and manipulate them into supporting genocide of an entire religious group).

2. Faith in charismatic cult leaders.

3. Faith in the father as the traditional head of the family (as defined by religious or social tradition).

4. Faith in institutional authorities (police, social workers, judges, priests, evangelical preachers, and so forth).

5. Faith in spiritual powers (such as a “holy spirit,” as defined by various religious belief systems).

6. Faith in some social group, official or unofficial (faith in a gang, in the business community, in a church, in a political party, and so on).

7. Faith in a political ideology (such as communism, capitalism, Fascism).

8. Faith in intuition.

9. Faith in one’s unanalyzed emotions.

10. Faith in one’s gut impulses.

11. Faith in fate (some unnamed force that supposedly guides the destiny of all of us).

12. Faith in social institutions (the courts, schools, business community, government).

13. Faith in the folkways or mores of a social group or culture.

14. Faith in one’s own unanalyzed experience.

15. Faith in people who have social status or position (the rich, the famous, the powerful).

Some of the above are compatible under some conditions, with faith in reason. The key factor is the extent to which some form of faith is based on sound reasoning and evidence. The acid test, then, is: Are there good grounds for having that faith? For example, it makes sense to have faith in a friend if that friend has constantly acted as a friend over an extended time. On the other hand, it does not make sense to have faith in a new acquaintance, even if one finds oneself emotionally attracted to that individual and that person professes his or her friendship.

G) In forming beliefs, critical thinkers do not passively accept the beliefs of others. Rather, they think through situations and issues for themselves and reject unjustified authorities while recognizing the contributions of reasonable authority. They thoughtfully form principles of thought and action and do not mindlessly accept those presented to them. They are not limited by accepted ways of doing things. They evaluate the traditions and practices that others often accept unquestioningly. Independent thinkers strive to incorporate knowledge and insight into their thinking, independent of the social status of the source. They are not willful, stubborn, or unresponsive to the reasonable suggestions of others. They are self-monitoring thinkers who strive to amend their own mistakes. They function from values they themselves have freely chosen.

These standards/rules fundamentally essential for critical thinking and are interdependent. Consider intellectual humility. To become aware of the limits of our knowledge, we need the intellectual courage to face our own prejudices and ignorance. To discover our own prejudices in turn, we often must intellectually empathize with and reason within points of view with which we fundamentally disagree. To achieve this end, we typically must engage in intellectual perseverance, as learning to empathically enter a point of view against which we are biased takes time and significant effort. That effort will not seem justified unless we have the necessary confidence in reason to believe we will not be tainted or “take in” by whatever is false or misleading in the opposing viewpoint.

Questions:
Gurdur, do these standards/rules have your approval?

Gurdur
September 20, 2003, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by oneofshibumi
.......
Questions:
Gurdur, do these standards/rules have your approval?
Ah, many thanks for your post, oneofshibumi.

I must first read at length and consider before final full committal; and also the Formal Disc mods would probably have something to say, and must also approve the discussion for their forum before it can proceed.

So I will answer your questions as to all the rules and dates for debate soon, and in the meantime perhaps a mod will give approval.
Thanks!
Gurdur

Silent Dave
September 21, 2003, 06:16 AM
I have two things to say.

First, are you sure you want only 3 rounds in your debate? Particularly with concurrent statements.

And second, this may turn out to be a stupid question, but . . . what is the JTR Website?


Dave

KnightWhoSaysNi
September 21, 2003, 11:49 AM
If I can make a suggestion, wouldn't it better if the debate was focused on the website's subject or arguments rather than the website itself? For example, your debate/discussion can have topics entitled like this:

When does criticizing Judaism/Israel cross the line from being skeptical/criticial to being racist/anti-semitic?

Resolved: saying [various statements] should not be considered anti-semitic/hateful but merely critical.

You could then use the JTR website as one of your sources.

Jason

Gurdur
September 21, 2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Nightshade
If I can make a suggestion, wouldn't it better if the debate was focused on the website's subject or arguments rather than the website itself? For example, your debate/discussion can have topics entitled like this:
Thanks, but no.
The discussion resulted from my saying that information presented on that JTR website should be treated with extra skepticism, because the web-site IMHO was obviously a hate-website.
Therefore the central point is whether or not JTR is a hate-website. The question of the website's overall effect is paramount.
I believe your own suggestions become in practice included in the discussion anyway.

Originally posted by Silent Dave
First, are you sure you want only 3 rounds in your debate? Particularly with concurrent statements.
I tend to agree. 6 rounds may be better. However, I'ld like to hear oneofshibumi's thoughts on that.
And second, this may turn out to be a stupid question, but . . . what is the JTR Website?
The Jewish Tribal Review .org (http://www.jewishtribalreview.org)
____________

I am still considering oneofshibumi's OP here, and will reply to salient questions soon.

Gurdur
September 21, 2003, 06:46 PM
OK, oneofshibumi, here are some of my first comments.
Please understand that this reply is only a preliminary and partial reply. I think it's in both of our interests to make the guidelines for our formal discussion as well delineated as possible.

Originally posted by oneofshibumi

(a) The topic of the debate.

JTR Website: Hate Website or Semitic Criticalist

With all respect, may I suggest that the topic be:
The JTR Website: A hate-website or not ?
It's easier and simpler, and doesn't carry the burden of a possible fallacy of false dichotomy.
3 Rounds
Possibly 6 would be better ?
Concurrently
Fine by me --- though we need a god practical way of arranging concurrence, since we live in different time zones of at least 6 hours' difference.
5,000 words per statement
(g) The maximum duration between statements.
1 week
(h) The extent to which quotes from outside sources will be permitted
The more the merrier.
All of that is fine, though my own posts will probabvly be shorter than your limit of 5,000 --- excluding quotes.
What is the definition of fair-minded?
I believe we've already agreed to your suggestion to use the definition of "What is a hate website ?" from Tolerance.org (I will reproduce that here in my next post).
Therefore we can proceed as to whether the JTR fits under that definition; and the topic of fair-mindedness becomes more revealed through our posts and analyses rather than by initial definition.
I look forward to your thoughts on the above.

Gurdur
September 21, 2003, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by oneofshibumi (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=62928&perpage=25&pagenumber=5#post1180092)
.......
A) The question of “What is the definition of a hate-website?” must be answered. We both must agree to a definition. I suggest the definition used by Tolerance.org
Source: http://www.tolerance.org/hate_internet/index.jsp
.....
Would a fair-minded person using reason and logic judge the JTR to be a HATE-WEBSITE as defined by the Tolerance.org?
Originally posted by viscousmemories (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=62928&perpage=25&pagenumber=5#post1180214)

Not sure if this is what oneofshibumi had in mind, but I found it on that site:

All hate groups have beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people, typically for their immutable characteristics.

Source: Tolerance.org (http://www.tolerance.org/maps/hate/index.html#criteria)

So we have with that a definition of a hate-website ----
that is, a hate-website is one that promulgates beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people, typically for their immutable characteristics.

And we have the possible discussion topic:
Is the JTR a hate-website ?

I await for comments from oneofshibumi and Formal-Disc mods before proceeding.

oneofshibumi
September 21, 2003, 10:49 PM
Xorbie,

Thank you. I believe I have been able to translate my concept into the common or dominant language of the Forum room. Group Identity is important to personal freedom.

I hope you enjoy the present post.

Sincerely,

Daniel
_________________________

Saludos mi buen amigo Blixy,

When I read the phrase “absolutely enlightening,” I feel extremely pleased because my need for making life wonderful for others was fulfilled. I have the cultural tools of many cultures. My great-great-grandfather was Chinese. I read Alan Watts, Art of War, Shiatsu, Taoism, the game Go, and Martial Arts. Multiculturalism allows you insight into people’s behavior and knowledge about one’s own identity. I believe Gurdur’s ethnicity will be an asset in this endeavor. The next level of humanity’s development requires multicultural literacy, Non-Violent Communication, and Critical Thinking. The mixture of these 3 “cultural tools,” transforms reality for the practioners. Healing for the ethnic-spirit and ethnic-mind is obtainable.

Blixy, we are in agreement about the Asian flavor to my writing. I am trying to paint a picture, adding context to the words I use. What I want to debate with Gurdur, requires Gurdur’s ethnic traits. I need someone who has 1. Be hardworking. 2. Be caring for other people. 3. Be strong-willed, and a critical thinker. He sincerely believes JTR is a hate-website and I truly believe it is a Semitic-Criticalist website.

To evaluate the JTR website I believe the following knowledge is necessary:
1) Ethnic Identity self-knowledge, and the more “other” cultures the better.
2) Know what the following words mean: Hate Website, Semitic, and Criticalist.
3) Knowledge of Jewish Culture.

After those three conditions are met, a debate on the JTR website becomes useful. Without those conditions being met, any debate would be a debate between two different paradigms. Something akin to watching to TV stations at the same time.

[Copied essay on Irish culture deleted - NS]

Sincerely,

Daniel

KnightWhoSaysNi
September 21, 2003, 11:13 PM
oneofshibumi,

I don't quite understand the intent of your recent post. First, you addressed your message to xorbie and blixy, not Gurdur. Second, although you mentioned some conditions regarding a formal debate with Gurdur, you then went into a long essay regarding the Irish and the Catholic church which I fail to see the relevance of. Did you intend your post to be made elsewhere? If so, a discussion on the Irish & Catholic Church is best suited for GRD or perhaps PD.

Jason

KnightWhoSaysNi
September 22, 2003, 12:05 AM
Gurdur,

I just wanted to inform you how a concurrent debate would work.

The FD forum is a fully moderated forum. This means that only a moderator is capable of starting a thread in that forum. When the thread is started, debate proponents can then post in it. However, once you post in the FD thread, your post will not be visible until it is validated by a moderator. This setup is ideal in the case of concurrent debates. When we receive your posts, we'll keep them invisible and validate them both simultaneously each round after both of your statements are submitted.

As for when your statements are posted, you and oneofshibumi would have to agree on a schedule. For example, the first concurrent statements would be due Oct. 7. The second concurrent statements would be due Oct. 21. The third due.... and so on... We would validate your statements when they're both received or at the deadline, whichever comes first.

Do you understand this?

Jason

Gurdur
September 22, 2003, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by Nightshade
Gurdur,
I just wanted to inform you how a concurrent debate would work.
......
However, once you post in the FD thread, your post will not be visible until it is validated by a moderator. This setup is ideal in the case of concurrent debates. When we receive your posts, we'll keep them invisible and validate them both simultaneously each round after both of your statements are submitted.
Ah, thanks for the explanation.
Do you understand this? Well, some of the longer words gave me trouble, but I think I got the drift, yes.
:)

There's still a bit of defining the parameters of the debate going on and to be completed; and oneofshibumi is refining the background to his parameters here, so I think we can leave the question of the actual schedule till a bit later.

Gurdur
September 22, 2003, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by Nightshade

oneofshibumi,

I don't quite understand the intent of your recent post. First, you addressed your message to xorbie and blixy, not Gurdur. ....
I think that's probably my fault. I suggested to oneofshibumi we move the discussion of how the formal debate should be handled to this forum, and oneofshibumi is refining his suggestions for the parameters ---- and probably inadvertantly left in a little bit in his post as a result of moving it here.

Anonymous Bosch
September 22, 2003, 07:29 AM
a little something to whet the taste buds...
Originally posted by oneofshibumi


In communicating with the Irish, the multiculturalists must often read between the lines, whether of blustering or of muted compliance, to ferret out what is really troubling them; then the Irish sense of loyalty, humor, and responsibility become their best resources. This clarity is important to those who fear doing wrong. It also provides a sense of success in communicating, which may be especially important for the Irish, who are preoccupied with feeling they are bad and have done wrong.



interesting...

i love the smell of plagiarism in the morning (http://www.aislingmagazine.com/Anu/articles/TAM21/Irish%20Families.Html)

In working with the Irish, the therapist must often read between the lines, whether of blustering or of muted compliance, to ferret out what is really troubling them; then the Irish sense of loyalty, humour, and responsibility become the best clinical resources. Given the Irish embarrassment about their feelings on the one hand, and their wish to be responsive to suggestions on the other, tasks that can be carried out at home may promote communication more successfully than directly confronting family members in therapy. It may help to give tasks that focus on presenting symptoms, structuring family interactions at home to address maladaptive family communication problems, rather than unmasking them directly in sessions.

:p

KnightWhoSaysNi
September 22, 2003, 08:44 AM
Thanks for pointing that out AB.

oneofshibumi, we insist that you not copy and paste entire portions of copyrighted essays from the web written by other people. We especially insist that you provide a reference if the work is not your own. Plagiarism of any form is not acceptable at IIDB.

Either way, the essay regarding the Irish is not relevant to the topic of this thread.

Jason

Rusting Car Bumper
September 22, 2003, 02:31 PM
cancel

Blixy Sticks
September 22, 2003, 04:13 PM
ation

oneofshibumi
September 23, 2003, 08:28 AM
Anonymous Bosch WROTE:

“interesting...

i love the smell of plagiarism in the morning

In working with the Irish, the therapist must often read between the lines, whether of blustering or of muted compliance, to ferret out what is really troubling them; then the Irish sense of loyalty, humour, and responsibility become the best clinical resources. Given the Irish embarrassment about their feelings on the one hand, and their wish to be responsive to suggestions on the other, tasks that can be carried out at home may promote communication more successfully than directly confronting family members in therapy. It may help to give tasks that focus on presenting symptoms, structuring family interactions at home to address maladaptive family communication problems, rather than unmasking them directly in sessions.”


Hello Anonymous Bosch,

When I read you words I believe I understand your response. I feel irked because an adequate answer would require revelation of one of my arguments supporting the JTR website. I feel elated because you have found one of the “scribes” of the “Irish-tribe” of the NCBE-Library. I have identified several Mexican authors, I haven’t been that lucky with Anglo authors and some other ethnic narratives still not identified. Thank you for your gift of author-identification.

This narrative will share understanding: At the end of May 2002, Oneofshibumi received an E-mail from the National Clearinghouse for Bilingual Education (NCBE): Center for the Study of Language & Education, the E-mail linked the user to a page with different ethnic groups. Pressing on Mexican I found several articles and several narratives (un-authored narratives). I also collected information from the website pertaining to several other cultures. Some of the ethnic narratives were authored, some were not. The NCLB website no longer recognizes the following link. The NCLB website no longer exists.
http://www.ncbe.gwu.edu/ncbepubs/irishfam/if1.htm

You can also notice the National Clearinghouse for Bilingual Education has stopped printing articles in the new National Clearinghouse for English Language Acquisition & Language Instruction Educational Programs (NCELA)
http://www.ncela.gwu.edu/miscpubs/nabe/brj/index.htm.

During the summer of 2002 I tried to return to the NCBE website. The NCBE website no longer existed. In the Fall of 2002, the old link took me the following National Clearinghouse for English Language Acquisition & Language Instruction Educational Programs:
http://www.ncela.gwu.edu/

Exhibit A: The American people depend upon federal agencies to develop science-based policies that protect the nation’s health and welfare. Recently, however, leading scientific journals have begun to question whether scientific integrity at federal agencies has been sacrificed to further a political and ideological agenda.

“At the request of Rep. Henry A. Waxman, the minority staff of the Government Reform Committee assessed the treatment of science and scientists by the Bush Administration.(1)”

Exhibit B: “In May 2002, the Department of Education circulated an internal memo entitled “Criteria & Process for Removing Old Content from www.ed.gov.”[1] The memo explains that the www.ed.gov portal, the largest of the Department’s sites, lacks common design themes and navigational systems. Furthermore, it states that “[m]uch of the content on these pages is either outdated or runs counter to current Administration priorities.” The memo instructs employees to remove all items dated earlier than February 2001 unless the item:

Is needed for a legal reason;
Supports No Child Left Behind or other Administration priorities and initiatives;
Is important for historical perspective (ie: statistical trends, the Nation at Risk report);
Is important for policy reasons identified by an Assistant Secretary; or
Is useful or valuable to parents, students, or educators and is consistent with the Administration’s philosophy.


The American Educational Research Association and 12 additional national educational organizations wrote a letter to Education Secretary Rod Paige expressing concern about the suppression of information. Executive Director Dr. Felice J. Levine commented, “Sound policy depends on solid science . . . . We need to ensure that research materials remain accessible so that analysts can interrogate them further and compare new results with prior data. We need to resist policies or procedures that remove such information or make it difficult to find.”(2). Of Course, with the “Loudspeakers” the Neo-Con Temple-Speak blaring (3), who listens to “terrorists” Bilingual Teachers (4).

(1) http://www.house.gov/reform/min/politicsandscience/index.htm
(2) http://www.house.gov/reform/min/politicsandscience/example_education.htm
(3) http://www.fair.org/extra/9811/latino.html
(4) http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-unz102601.shtml


PERSONAL NARRATIVE: The NCBE was a beautiful library. Ethnic from all over the world were available. The NCBE allowed Ethnic researchers from all over the world post their findings. Information about culture was accumulating geometrically. Just about every culture you could imagine about culture, education, and methods of helping an individual find ethnic-identity. I would send my students and friends to explore their culture. My students and friends were fascinated by the information at the NCBE. Then the darkness came. The NCBE disappeared, in its last E-mail had links to UNAUTHORED ethnic narratives with, on the NCBE webpage previously mentioned. Usually, the term Copy Left means you can pass it on as much as you can and the copy contains the location of retrieval. Share with All or shareware or something to that affect. My only source, a broken link which connects to a non-existent webpage, sounds very much like a conspiracy theory, even though I would call it institutional theory.

I hypothesis that one or more of the workers at the NCBE wanted to distribute as many of the ethnic narratives as possible before the Bush Administration BURNED THE TEMPLE (Library) and the shut down of the NCBE. When I think of the NCBE website, I feel vitalized because my need for understanding was quenched. The Anglophiles could go and read English children songs from the 1940s-1950s. Mexican-Americans could find information to ease the effects of gangs and drugs in English and Spanish. Did you know that the Irish had the most Ethnic narratives of any European ethnic group? Or did you know the German narratives had the third most narratives? A reader could become immerse in culture for hours and hours. Christians were really big on burning the Temples/Libraries of other cultures in the past. Should I be surprised that the Temple-State BURNED the MULTICULTURAL LIBRARY to replace it by the Temple-State English Learners website?

Anonymous Bosch, let me express my thanks again for Monica McGoldrick’s authorship-identification. I will add her name in any future posts. http://www.aislingmagazine.com/Anu/articles/TAM21/Irish%20Families.Html

Each reader will have to decide from their own perspective if I am guilty of plagiarism or not. A couple weeks ago I began research on Bush’s Educational policies. Then every thing began to make sense if I used a multicultural perspective. I feel sad because
my need to share what I know by traditional (with citations) means can not be met. Rather than being able to cite a rich library of ethnic narratives as I used to be able to, I am left presenting the following. http://www.ncela.gwu.edu/library/tolerance.htm

Ethnic-Identity is a need. Knowledge to help all Ethnic groups become more successful exists. A website once existed where you could “breathe in” your culture. How did it feel? Everyone who has read them, including myself find the ethnic narratives exhilarating. I received the narratives from a dying institution, with permission to share them. The sender did not have the right to present the ethnic narratives in such a manner. I believe the sender of the ethnicgraphs wanted them distributed on the Internet. Ironic, after Bush’s purging of the NCBE, the Irish once again demonstrate their ability to survive by finding another electronically home, in the perspective of “Darwinian” ethnic selection.

Anonymous Bosch, “burning plagiarism this morning?” More like, the NCBE’s smoking carcass; my beloved multicultural library. I mourn that I cannot invite you to the NCBE website, you would have left feeling proud of the collection of narratives on your ethnicity.


Sincerely,

Daniel

Gurdur
September 23, 2003, 01:39 PM
oneofshibumi:

The use of sources is perfectly OK as long as you give attribution, and as long as it is relevant.

A small amount of rewriting of a source does not make it OK to post it as your own; you must still give the original author(s) attribution.

Additionally, could you please address my questions to you regarding how we should set up this futurre debate ?

We are still talking about how to set it up; it has not started yet, and I would be grateful for an answer to my suggestions to you.
And this thread is only about how to set up the debate.
Thank-you,
Gurdur

oneofshibumi
September 23, 2003, 06:24 PM
Dear Gurdur,

a) We are in agreement about the name of the debate: “The JTR Website: A hate-website or not?”

b) We are in agreement about the 6 posts each.

c) As time has passed, I feel conflicted about my “concurrence” suggestion. Not only because of the time logistics, as you mentioned, but because our different perspectives would appear disjointed. In my humble opinion, and if you do not object, I would like to change the debate format to a “successive format;” we post independently. Would you be willing to reconsider?

Sincerely,

Daniel

Gurdur
September 23, 2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by oneofshibumi

a) We are in agreement about the name of the debate: “The JTR Website: A hate-website or not?”

b) We are in agreement about the 6 posts each.
Good-o, thanks.
c) As time has passed, I feel conflicted about my “concurrence” suggestion. Not only because of the time logistics, as you mentioned, but because our different perspectives would appear disjointed. In my humble opinion, and if you do not object, I would like to change the debate format to a “successive format;” we post independently. Would you be willing to reconsider
No worries --- I am easy either way. We do it whichever way you prefer.

Now:
Do you wish to have the first statement/post, or shall I ?

Are you in agreement with the definition I posted above of a hate-website, modified slightly from Tolerance.org ?

Obviously, our positions are:
oneofshibumi: “The JTR Website: A hate-website or not?” "Not"
Gurdur: “The JTR Website: A hate-website or not?” "Yes, it is."

And when roughly would you like to start the formal debate ?

It's now the 24th of September; perhaps the 4th of October ? or when ?

Thanks,
Gurdur

oneofshibumi
September 23, 2003, 08:29 PM
Dear Gurdur,

I am in agreement with the slightly modified definition of “hate website,” and our perspective position for the debate. October 4th, as the start to the formal debate sounds reasonable, if you find the date agreeable. I would like you to start because I cannot understand what you have valued as “hateful,” in the JTR Website.

Sincerely,

Daniel

KnightWhoSaysNi
September 26, 2003, 01:06 PM
Upon consideration of your formal debate proposal, we regret to inform you that we've decided to decline it.

As the FDD moderators, we desire to maximize the quality and relevance of the formal debates to the Secular Web and/or its mission. We also feel that the debate focus is too narrow and constricted (i.e. debating solely on the content of a website rather than debating a social/religious/political controversy which is preferred). We will update the FDCS FAQ to reflect this consideration.

However, please note that you are welcome to debate this topic freely in the regular fora as you see you fit.

Jason