zen

[Gothic_J]

how does it work, whats its philisophy, and what are the major differences within it's sects?

Ive collected a very vague interest in it, so I want to see what else it involves.

[premjan]

I think zen originates in a desire to break free of mental categories. So a lot of it is these semi-nonsensical parables with deeper meanings called koans.

[Magic Primate]

The two main Japanese branches are Rinzai and Soto. Rinzai involves contemplation of koans, while Soto is exclusively zazen ie 'just sitting'. Zazen is not meditation as it is commonly practiced. There is no 'trance-like state' or visualisation or absorbtion into anything in particular - it is a matter of sitting in correct posture while remaining fally alert, but not thinking or focussed on any particualar thing.

Philosophical and metaphisical discussions are discouraged, (although they inevitably occur on Zen message boards etc).

As means of Buddhist practice, Zen aims to rid people of categorical thought and illusions of self in order that enlightenment be 'experienced'. 'Small self' is shed in order to abide in 'Buddha mind'. Paradoxically perhaps, while sitting there must be no thought or desire of gaining anything.

Of course there is a hidden philosophy of Zen coming from Buddhism, which might be articulated (falsely of course) as including the following principles:
reality is 'empty' (formless)
the self is an illusion
form is emptiness, emptiness is form

Having said that, I should add that I have much to learn and I cannot say that I have complete agreement with / understanding of all that I have been taught. Zazen definitely has increased my self-awareness in a subtle way though.

[Sarpedon]

That state of being completely alert is pretty trippy.

[Magic Primate]

No, you're supposed to do it when you're sober.

[andy_d]

I agree, no getting wasted until after you've done your meditation :D

[Jet Grind]

Zen is a tradition in Buddhism that originated when Buddhist doctrines spread into China and the elite intellectuals of the time began mixing it with the Taoist doctrines (which was the dominant view of the time amongst them).

The basic view is that we are all alive in a sea of Zen, but we can't sense this through normal means and must apply intuition in order to grasp it.

The three main beliefs are as follows.

1. All things are one.
2. Your sense of self is an illusion.
3. Suffering is caused by desire.

That's really all I know.

[Ramen]

The best description of Zen that I've come across is on this (http://www.yakrider.com/Buddha/Zen/Zen.htm) webpage.

[Jutsuka]

Perhaps this might help.

10 Bulls (http://www.cs.sfu.ca/people/ResearchStaff/jamie/personal/10_Bulls/Title_Page.html)

[andy_d]

Originally posted by Jet Grind

3. Suffering is caused by desire.


Close. Suffering is caused by attatchment, which is not always the same as desire.

Desiring something really positive for someone else wouldn't cause either of you to suffer, for example. Being attatched the fulfilment of that desire would.

[premjan]

I think attachment is the Buddhist version of idol-worship. I.e avoiding attachment is like avoiding idolatry.

[Heathen Dawn]

Avoid attachments. They might contain a virus. Oh, you said “attachment”...

Originally posted by premjan
I think attachment is the Buddhist version of idol-worship. I.e avoiding attachment is like avoiding idolatry.

That’s too bad. I’m idolator supremo (in both Buddhist and Christian senses).

[andy_d]

Originally posted by premjan
I think attachment is the Buddhist version of idol-worship. I.e avoiding attachment is like avoiding idolatry.

Er, except Buddhists say "If you do this, you'll be unhappy, and none of us want that" whereas Abrahamists say "If you do this my imaginary friend will get angry at you"

Slight difference in outlook and motivation ;)

[gsx1138]

As it was explained to me by an instructer at my local Buddhist temple. "Zen is a state of being. And understanding that the most important time in our life is right now." Sounds good but I never got very far with it. I'm too used to drum circles and ritual. ;)

[Vajradhara]

Originally posted by Jet Grind
[

The three main beliefs are as follows.

1. All things are one.
2. Your sense of self is an illusion.
3. Suffering is caused by desire.

That's really all I know. [/B]

Namaste,

not to get super technical here...

the technical Buddhist term for what causes our Dhukka is Klesha (defilements)

often, in the west, Dhukka is translated as "suffering" though this term doesn't really express Dhukka properly. Dhukka is thirst, unsatisfactoriness, physical suffering, mental suffering and more.

[Answerer]

Originally posted by premjan
I think attachment is the Buddhist version of idol-worship. I.e avoiding attachment is like avoiding idolatry.

Avoiding idolatry is another form of attachment.

[Answerer]

Originally posted by premjan
I think zen originates in a desire to break free of mental categories. So a lot of it is these semi-nonsensical parables with deeper meanings called koans.

This entire world is nonsensical, so Zen koans have to be nonsensical, got it?;) ;)

[Ramen]

Zen koans are nonsensical because they are meant to force the mind beyond thought.

Things Zen or Buddhist should be considered for what they accomplish internally. Do not dwell on outward appearances.

[Answerer]

Geee, you don't get what I mean :( :( , nevermind, its time to shut up(for me) :notworthy :notworthy .

[Vajradhara]

Namaste all,

here's what D.T. Suzuki had to say about Zen:

If people ask me what Zen is like, I will say that it is like learning the art of burglary. The son of a burglar saw his father growing older and thought: "if he is unable to carry out his profession, who will be the breadwinner of this family? I must learn the trade." One night the father took the son to a big house, broke through the fence, entered the house, and opening one of the large chests, told the son to go in and pick out the clothing. As soon as he got into it, the lid was dropped and the lock securely applied. The father now came out to the courtyard, and loudly knocking at the door woke up the whole family, whereas he himself quietly slipped away. The residents got up and lighted candles, but found that the burglars had already gone. The whole time, the son remained in the chest, and thought of his cruel father. Then a fine idea flashed upon him. He made a noise like the gnawing of a rat. When the lid was unlocked, out came the prisoner and fled. Noticing a well by the road, he picked up a large stone and threw it into the water. The pursuers gathered around the well trying to find the burglar drowning himself. By then, he was safely back in the house with his father, whom he blamed for his narrow escape. When the son told him of his adventures, the father remarked, "There, you have learned the art!"

D.T. Suzuki

[Nowhere357]

Well, that was no help. Perhaps that's the point? The zen that we can talk about is not zen.

We know about reason, how and why it works. It seems to me that in meditation the mind/brain is quieted (while paying attention), which includes quieting whatever gives us reason.

So what's left? Experience is directly related to knowledge, so what is the experience? Is that the knowledge that for example can solve zen koans?

Btw, I've seen a few koans, and I haven't a clue.

[paul30]

Zen is based on the notion that the really important things cannot be taught, but they can be learned.

You can only learn them by going beyond all mental constructs, and feelings, and judgments; and simply experience what is really there.

This is the purpose of the koan (an irreduceable riddle) or just sitting; to banish all mental and emotional ways of perceiving, and just perceive.

Also, enlightenment, once achieved, is never fully achieved. It's an endless process.

Before enlightenment: chopping wood and carrying water. After enlightenment: chopping wood and carrying water.

[premjan]

that is why belly laughter (ananda) is considered the mark of true enlightenment.