Why I Am An Agnostic, by Clarence Darrow

[Believe in Genes]

Why I am an agnostic and myth of the soul by Clarence Darrow.

Very very good articles. Now there is someone who is still using their gray matter.

I am sooooooooooo tired of these big mouth "Born Agains" everyone of them on their little soap boxes spouting their beliefs, trying to cram cram cram their ideas down everyone's throats.


Funny, I find "Agnostics" nicer human beings then the Christians. Most of the Christians I have met are mean, hateful, judgemental and obnoxious know it alls.

Scary, because our Christians here in America are getting as fanatical as some of the fundamentalist sects over in the middle east.

Fanatical is fanatical...............

I don't believe in God, I believe in genes.

Mr. Darrow's articles are excellent.

[-DM-]

Originally posted by Believe in Genes
Why I am an agnostic and myth of the soul by Clarence Darrow.

Very very good articles. Now there is someone who is still using their gray matter.Thank you for your feedback to Why I Am An Agnostic (http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/clarence_darrow/why_i_am_an_agnostic.html) and The Myth of the Soul (http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/darrow0.htm) (Offsite) by Clarence Darrow (http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/clarence_darrow/index.shtml).

Clarence Darrow has been dead since 1938, so unless you believe in life after death, he isn't likely still using his gray matter. ;)

But yes, I agree that those are good articles.

Regarding Christians, I must say that even though I am an atheist by Christian standards (I don't believe that the Christian "God" could possibly exist), most of the Christians that I know are anything but mean, hateful, judgemental and obnoxious know-it-alls. Christians come in all different kinds, and for the most part they are little different in most respects than we non-Christians and/or nontheists (as research has shown).

-DM-

[Edited only to correct vB formatting error. -DM-]

[petrabena]

Thank you for explaining the use of the word atheist in the context of the christian god.

Are there other contexts?

petrabena

[-DM-]

Are there other contexts?Yes. One could be an atheist with regard to all gods, a specific set of gods, or only one of the allegedly existent gods. For example, I am an atheist when it comes to the Christian god; so far as I am concerned, that god could not possibly exist. I am an agnostic, however, when it comes to the general possibility of a god or gods.

-DM-

[petrabena]

Thank you for your considerate reply.

To learn a (very little) bit more about you is to learn respect for what you are doing and for your ethics.

I am in general agreement (personal opinion) with your remark that the christian god could not possibly exist.

However, I do ponder these questions:

1) In the 21st century there seem to be many versions of what is the christian god. So, which one could not possibly exist? All? … Maybe so, I don’t know (personal opinion).

2) Moses Maimonides, a medieval philosopher, once said: "I firmly believe that … there exists nothing whatever [that] resembles [God]". Einstein was particularly fond of quoting this. I think the point here MAY be: what scientific criteria could we use to evaluate the probabilities, or lack thereof, that any god or gods exist?

3) Even if any god or gods exist, doesn’t anthropomorphization hopelessly corrupt our understandings?

Thanx again … petrabena

[-DM-]

Petrabena:

You ask good questions. Would that I--or anyone--had definitive answers to all of them.

1) Yes, in the 21st century we do have many versions of the Christian god. When I speak of the Christian god, however, I have in mind a traditional version: a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, personal, loving "God"; the triune "God" represented by the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; salvation through Jesus--and all that. That is not to say, however, that I wouldn't find some variations which excluded one or more of these characteristics equally untenable.

2) Rabbi Moses ben Maimon Maimonides "sought to harmonize faith and reason by reconciling the tenets of rabbinic Judaism with the rationalism of Aristotelian philosophy in its modified Arabic form, which includes elements of Neoplatonism. This work, in which he considers the nature of God and creation, free will, and the problem of good and evil, profoundly influenced such Christian philosophers as St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Albertus Magnus." [Encarta] I'm not familiar with the quote that you provide, but it would seem that, if Maimonides "profoundly influenced ... Aquinas" that he must have meant something different than the meaning that the words, by themselves, seem to convey.

Regarding scientific criteria by which we could evaluate the probability of the existence of any god, it seems to me that any god who did not interact with the physical world would be irrelevant; it also seems to me quite obvious that any god who did interact with the physical world would necessarily be detectable with the present-day tools and methods of science.

3) It seems to me that whether anthropomorphization would corrupt our understanding of a god (which might exist) is a question that cannot be answered without first understanding that god.

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These are questions, however, that go well beyond the intent of the Feedback forum (which is intended to be only for limited discussion related to articles published in the Library or the Kiosk). I would suggest that you become a registered user (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/register.php?s=&action=signup) of our discussion board and then carry on this discussion in an appropriate open discussion forum, such as the Existence of God(s) (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=59) forum.

If you do become a registered user and you would like this topic moved to that forum so that you can continue there, please let me know.

-DM-

[petrabena]

I remain grateful for your time and efforts.

I will consider registering, and have no issue with moving this topic to the Existence forum.

Personally, I am more interested in ethics than in determining the absence or existence of a god. Afterall, with the present shortfall in applicable facts, the determination of the existence and nature of a god, or lack thereof, is mostly a matter of unsupported personal opinion.

Instead, I would ask do the known laws of our Universe influence what constitutes “ethical” behavior?

Perhaps you could recommend an appropriate forum.

Thank You,

petrabena

[-DM-]

Originally posted by petrabena
Personally, I am more interested in ethics than in determining the absence or existence of a god.

Instead, I would ask do the known laws of our Universe influence what constitutes “ethical” behavior?

Perhaps you could recommend an appropriate forum.It sounds to me as if the Moral Foundations & Principles (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=61) forum would be a perfect fit.

Regards,
-DM-