The Resounding Silence of God

[factfinder]

O.K., all you unbelievers, why don't I hear God when I ask Him to speak to me?:D

Just kidding, of course. But, isn't God's silence a key offense toward theism?

I mean, all this talk of personal relationship is usually quickly dispelled upon a conversation with a theist. I have posted questions on apologetic forums to ask why God doesn't speak to those who have earnestly sought him (like me). The most logical answer that I can think of is the very one that I don't want to admit: He doesn't exist!

[King Rat]

"God is silent, and the question remains."

[Selsaral]

Similarly, when people are utterly convinced they were abducted by aliens, that Xenu the Galactic Overlord is threatening the Earth, that you can fortell the future using a termite oracle, that the spirits of their ancestors watch over them, etc, can you really take seriously claims of people who talk to gods? Or place the claims about gods into a different category than claims about Xenu or Bigfoot?

[jafosei]

But, isn't God's silence a key offense toward theism?

It certainly seems to be so for you, based on your recent postings. Expecting some communication and not receiving it can be extremely disappointing. In some social settings, a refusal to communicate is considered hostile; if the relationship between humans and God is one of those settings, then God's silence would seem to be offensive.

When I was Christian, I didn't actually expect God to speak to me in any obvious way. I considered my faith to be integral to my character (how wrong I was on that one!), and I expected that just living out my faith was sufficient.

I always found the claims of those who did claim to 'feel' God or 'hear' God to be confusing. I've had conversations with myself, I've had insights come into my head, but I always recognized them as coming from myself, so I have wondered if people who 'hear' God were just misinterpreting the source of this inner dialogue.

From the other side of the table, I could imagine the following responses: "God is speaking, you just have to really, really listen." Or, "God only speaks when it is necessary. You may not understand His silence now, but be patient, and it will all be clear one day." That's the kind of stuff I heard when I was younger. Some people consider it sufficient to wait; I don't know if that will work for you.

[factfinder]

jafosei,

I hope I can wait too. Aside from miraculous intervention right now I am doubting that I can hang on much longer.

As pathetic as it sounds, I'm gonna try though.

[Amlodhi]

Originally posted by jafosei

I've had conversations with myself, I've had insights come into my head, but I always recognized them as coming from myself, so I have wondered if people who 'hear' God were just misinterpreting the source of this inner dialogue.

Indeed, your comments bring to mind the occasions in which I have been in conversation with various ultra-fervent apologists. By this I mean those occasions in which the person claimed to have actually heard God's voice speaking to them. When I asked them what it was that God had said, I often received a response in the "thee", "thou" and "smiteth" style of the KJV bible.

As if God would somehow be in the habit of communicating in the vernacular of archaic Elizabethan English. :)

Namaste'

Amlodhi

[Magus55]

Originally posted by factfinder
jafosei,

I hope I can wait too. Aside from miraculous intervention right now I am doubting that I can hang on much longer.

As pathetic as it sounds, I'm gonna try though. God rarely verbally speaks to people. God speaks to us through the Bible. If you think the Bible is junk then you probably won't have any luck.

[factfinder]

Magus55,

What about speaking to my heart (as only God could do)?

Bottom line....whether the Bible is 'junk' or not is a subjective question. The Bible was written by men. Even by the Bible's own definition, men are fallible & not to be trusted.

Therefore, why didn't God leave his stamp on it? Isn't that consistent with what the Bible teaches?

[Queen of Swords]

Originally posted by Magus55
God rarely verbally speaks to people.

Don't you mean, "God rarely verbally speaks to people any more"? Because I recall that he spoke to them verbally a lot in the past, then apparently reduced the practice for some reason.

[factfinder]

QoS,

Good point! Why did God decide to do an about-face & stop communicating with people.

I mean communicating using the senses that God instilled in us.

This whole thing doesn't make sense.

[Magus55]

Originally posted by factfinder
Magus55,

What about speaking to my heart (as only God could do)?

Bottom line....whether the Bible is 'junk' or not is a subjective question. The Bible was written by men. Even by the Bible's own definition, men are fallible & not to be trusted.

Therefore, why didn't God leave his stamp on it? Isn't that consistent with what the Bible teaches? His stamp is prophecy. Only God could make prophecy come true. Now, if you don't accept Biblical prophecy as valid ( i.e like everyone on this board), then I'm not surprised you would find the Bible lacking. And the Bible says unbelievers won't find the Bible convincing.

[Shake]

factfinder, your profile says you are Christian. Have you not been told why you don't "hear" responses? jafosei gave some of the stock answers I have also heard. Others are things like, "The answers don't always come in the form you expect," and, "He works in mysterious ways." These are both similar, I know. You might hear that we can't understand the answer as it is given. This to me sounds like a way of covering up the answer, which is, "I don't know."

I suspect you may have asked this question before and been dissatisfied with the answers you've been given. I don't suspect you'll get much more satisfaction out of answers from other theists.

Atheists like myself take this silence as a lack of evidence of the divine.

Here's an idea: take two things that you would pray for, and for the first, continue to pray to God for it. For the second, take the George Carlin route, and pray to Joe Pesci for it. Then take a look at your results. Did both come to pass? Neither? Just the one you prayed to Joe Pesci for? The one you prayed to God for? What does that tell you? Especially if it's one of the first 3 results.

Good luck in your search for answers!

[Queen of Swords]

Originally posted by Magus55
His stamp is prophecy. Only God could make prophecy come true.

I prophesy that I will drink a cup of tea within the hour.

<goes off to make tea>

Therefore, I must be God.

And the Bible says unbelievers won't find the Bible convincing.

You mean the book correctly guessed that people who didn't buy into its supernatural father figure wouldn't buy into its myths?

[Magus55]

Originally posted by factfinder
QoS,

Good point! Why did God decide to do an about-face & stop communicating with people.

I mean communicating using the senses that God instilled in us.

This whole thing doesn't make sense. Did it ever occur to you that God knew most people would dismiss it these days? In this skeptical age, if God verbally spoke to people, Psychologists would be the busiest and riches people on Earth. God provided the means for salvation, and the means for us to understand Him and His plan through the Bible. Making the choice to follow Him, and seek His guidance is up to us.

[Magus55]

Originally posted by QueenofSwords
Originally posted by Magus55
His stamp is prophecy. Only God could make prophecy come true.

I prophesy that I will drink a cup of tea within the hour.

<goes off to make tea>

Therefore, I must be God.

And the Bible says unbelievers won't find the Bible convincing.

You mean the book correctly guessed that people who didn't buy into its supernatural father figure wouldn't buy into its myths? That isn't prophecy QoS. Cut the sarcasm <personal commentary deleted - COAS>

[Queen of Swords]

Originally posted by Magus55
Did it ever occur to you that God knew most people would dismiss it these days?

And he knew that no one would dismiss the bible these days?

In this skeptical age, if God verbally spoke to people, Psychologists would be the busiest and riches people on Earth.

As it is, televangelists and other religious leaders are the rich ones. It's not an improvement, IMO.

God provided the means for salvation,

Circumcision, followed by burnt offerings each time you have a... oh, wait, that's the Old Testament. My mistake.

and the means for us to understand Him and His plan through the Bible. Making the choice to follow Him, and seek His guidance is up to us.

If what he's provided in the bible is inconsistent with either itself or reality, it's his responsibility when people do not take his religious any more seriously than they take other religions.

[Magus55]

Originally posted by Shake


Here's an idea: take two things that you would pray for, and for the first, continue to pray to God for it. For the second, take the George Carlin route, and pray to Joe Pesci for it. Then take a look at your results. Did both come to pass? Neither? Just the one you prayed to Joe Pesci for? The one you prayed to God for? What does that tell you? Especially if it's one of the first 3 results.

Good luck in your search for answers!

And you have tried this as your attempt to connect with God? Testing God won't get you answers.

[Queen of Swords]

Originally posted by Magus55
That isn't prophecy QoS.

Could you explain to me why it isn't prophecy? I predicted that an event would happen in the future. And a used tea bag stands evidence to the fact that this event actually did happen.

So, what's the accepted criteria for prophecy to be confirmed as prophecy?

[Stew]

Originally posted by Magus55
In this skeptical age, if God verbally spoke to people, Psychologists would be the busiest and riches people on Earth.


Apparently, assuming your claim is valid, this god concept is puzzled by skeptics and doesn't know how to communicate in a manner that does not require therapeutic follow-up...



.

[Stew]

Originally posted by Magus55
Testing God won't get you answers.






Why not? I know some pretty easy questions...



.

[King Rat]

Why not? I know some pretty easy questions...

Well, because apparently omnibenevolent somehow includes being easily pissed off as well.

"Show me who to smite and they shall be smoten!"

[Amlodhi]

Originally posted by factfinder

Good point! Why did God decide to do an about-face & stop communicating with people.

IIRC, there is an equation that explains this. Something along the lines of:

Incidences of overt supernatural manifestations are inversely proportional to the number of available electronic recording devices.

Namaste'

Amlodhi

[factfinder]

Magus55,

Look man, I know you mean well, but this whole 'God will not be tested' stance is a cop-out.

God, by the bible's definition, loves us & wants only the best for us. He sent his Son in order to have a personal relationship with humankind (for some reason He stopped walking with them like in the OT days).

If you are married (happily), you know that a relationship hinges on 2-way communication. I can't have a relationship with God if I'm the only one doin' the talkin'.

I have no problem humbling myself, worshipping, trying to live the Christian life. I just want a little love, that's all (sorry if this sounds corny).

[Aravnah Ornan]

Originally posted by QueenofSwords
Don't you mean, "God rarely verbally speaks to people any more"? Because I recall that he spoke to them verbally a lot in the past, then apparently reduced the practice for some reason. Not to mention that G-d used to do cool stuff like making the earth stop turning on its axis or even turn backwards for a bit, or like sending fire from heaven to consume a sacrifice. Now G-d never even sends Christmas cards anymore.