Young Islamic women targeted for death ("honor killings")

[atheist_in_foxhole]

Pregnant & running for their lives (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/149254p-131613c.html)

JERUSALEM - Nearly all the teens who arrive at an Israeli shelter for unmarried pregnant women are in trouble.

But for some, their lives are on the line.

Arab Israelis who travel to the shelter, whose location is a closely guarded secret, under the cover of darkness are escaping a death sentence - at the hands of their own families.

An out-of-wedlock baby is a source of deep shame for some families in Arab society, cured only by an ancient practice called "honor killing."

At the shelter, one 18-year-old Israeli Jew remembers well two Arab teens who sought refuge there.

"They came in middle of night, without any money or even a bag. They had crazy stories," she said.

"Their families - except one of the girls' mother - didn't know they were at the shelter because if their brothers knew, they would hunt them down. They would hunt them down and kill them."

They kill their own sisters? Even 11 year-old rape victims?!? Yes, this is the "religion of peace" we keep hearing so much about. Unbelieveable.

These Muslim fanatics make our fundies look peaceful and tolerant, and if I'm not mistaken Islam is one of fastest growing religions in the world. So what the hell are we going to do about it?

[Pouye]

Originally posted by atheist_in_foxhole
Pregnant & running for their lives (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/149254p-131613c.html)



They kill their own sisters? Even 11 year-old rape victims?!? Yes, this is the "religion of peace" we keep hearing so much about. Unbelieveable.

These Muslim fanatics make our fundies look peaceful and tolerant, and if I'm not mistaken Islam is one of fastest growing religions in the world. So what the hell are we going to do about it?

Good question...

As a Christian, I wish they would read the "Injeel" (New Testament, considered a "holy book" in Islam) more often...

"Muhammad brought down from heaven and put into the Koran not religious doctrines only, but political maxims, criminal and civil laws, and scientific theories. The Gospels, on the other hand, deal only with the general relations between man and God and between man and man. Beyond that, they teach nothing and do not oblige people to believe anything. That alone, among a thousand reasons, is enough to show that Islam will not be able to hold its power long in ages of enlightenment and democracy, while Christianity is destined to reign in such ages, as in all others."
Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-59), French social philosopher. Democracy in America, vol. 2, pt. 1, ch. 5 (1840).

[grimey]

this is so sad......religion is the opium of the people.....

[foxjazz]

Why is it that Christians are so arrogant? The best way to handle the situation is to let their sisters kill themselves so they don't make more Islamic babies to kill others. I have no compassion for religious people, the more death in their ranks the better off we will be in the future. It is a mean world and anything that prevents that meanness from entering into my realm of life is always preferred.

Oh, back on topic. Christians think that a little reading will break the spirit of evil (or what we call evil) in the Islamic culture. Such isn't the case. Prefering truth over fantasy may go a long way if we teach compassion and love of others without the religious component. Religion whatever flavor brings conflict to any world view, and thus should be abstained in favor of peace.

Fox

[Sedim]

Under strict islamic law, if I recall correctly, FOUR muslim men of upstanding character must see a rape take place for it to legally qualify as a rape. Period. If a woman cries rape without those "four upstanding witnesses" (yes, that *is* sarcasm) all a man need do to get off the hook is say "she consented". I also recall hearing that if the girl has reached puberty, then by muslim law she has reached an age of consent.

I talked to a muslim woman about this once, and she told me that basically it's a blot on the men, for not keeping her away from all premarital intercourse in the first place, but also that the girl/woman must have wanted it badly enough to tempt fate in the first place.

I know, I can "hear" all the furious and indignant replies now, but it's only what I heard, not what I believe! If this offends any muslims here, I apologize. If anyone can refer me to accurate resources to research this further, I would appreciate it. :)

[Hazel-rah]

"Honor killings" is one of the many reason why I scoff when people say that you can't have morality without religion.

[Pouye]

Originally posted by Hazel-rah
"Honor killings" is one of the many reason why I scoff when people say that you can't have morality without religion.

"Even when Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, instinctively follow what the law says, they show that in their hearts they know right from wrong. They demonstrate that God's law is written within them, for their own consciences either accuse them or tell them they are doing what is right."
Romans 2:14-15

It seems to me that we are inherently moral beings. However, as you know, what is "right" and what is "wrong" is often relative to a person's viewpoint. I would say a more accurate statement is something like this: "You can't have a STANDARD of morality without something to base it on."

You can set standards for morality by creating laws; But who has the right to set the standards? The majority? They young? The elderly? The most mighty (survival of the most fit?) or powerful?

For instance, if the majority says that pedophilia should be legal, should it be?

You are deceiving yourself if you can just "trust that it will all work out because we all have a conscience". When everyone is given the right to do whatever they choose, an interesting thing called anarchy often results...

Rock

[Opera Nut]

And Musliims who fly commercial jet airliners into the World Trade Center as bombs, as part of a holy war, killing 3,000 people, are OK because they are being "Moral" by their standards and not creating anarchy?

Those acts are not anarchy, but they are close to hell on earth.

This past week I visited the hole where the World Trade Center used to stand. It's a very very large hole, sixteen acres.

Religion is very often an inconsistent and illogical guide to supposed morality. IIDB has beaten this one to death already.





:confused:

[DMB]

So-called "honour killings" happen among muslims in the West as well, but there are a lot more of them in countries with large muslim populations. Queen Noor, widow of King Hussein of Jordan, led a campaign against "honour killings" when her husband was alive.

[hinduwoman]

Originally posted by atheist_in_foxhole
Pregnant & running for their lives (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/149254p-131613c.html)



They kill their own sisters? Even 11 year-old rape victims?!? Yes, this is the "religion of peace" we keep hearing so much about. Unbelieveable.

These Muslim fanatics make our fundies look peaceful and tolerant, and if I'm not mistaken Islam is one of fastest growing religions in the world. So what the hell are we going to do about it?

yep, a girl's sexuality is bound up with the family's honour; so the first impulse of the family is to kill the girl. Even in the case of rape they do not try to punish the man but the woman.

Read about a case in IRan where the father suspected that his seven year old daughter had been raped by his friend; so instead of going for the friend or verifying it he simply beheaded the girl. :mad:

Actually Pakistan has official laws called Zina and Hudood.
A muslim woman who complains of rape must have four male witnesses. Even a whole dormful of females won't do. Merely one or two men won't do. Even if the perpatrator himself confesses (at least one did) it won't do. (And the assumption is these witnesses must be Muslims, other religions not being trustworthy enough). According to some recent judgements merely four males is not enough. They must also be honourable --- in one case the judge explained that if such men are honourable then they would have prevented the rape ; if they did not they are not honourable and so disqualified as witnesses.. Whichever way you look a woman cannot win under such laws. To top all that if such witnesses cannot be found then the woman is imprisoned and then lashed for the crime of committing adultery. This means so far every case that has been reported in the media the victim has always been punished; the jails of Pakistan are full of such women.
And of course nothing happens to the accused.
:banghead: