Noooooooooooooo

[Jeffrey Formosa]

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/get_right.shtml I will go to hell or into nothing, I hate this world. I don't like any thing any more, I just wanted a good afterlife but I wont get one whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

[Hazel-rah]

Jeffrey, forgive me if this isn't the response you're looking for, but you seem to starting a lot of threads based on an overpowering sense of desperation.

When long-held beliefs are torn down by a search for truth, it can be very emotionally traumatizing, especially as it concerns matters of mortality and personal existence. You'll find a lot of supportive people on this forum if you will articulate your concerns in a clear, non-confrontational manner.

You will get a lot farther here toward getting real answers to your questions if we know what your questions are.

[Jeffrey Formosa]

I don't want to be a Christian but I don't want to believe in no afterlife, is the jewish belief good, I am sorry but I can never belive in no afterlife, there must be a afterlife. I am going to try and find ever beliefe there is, maybe I will find the right one.

[Jeffrey Formosa]

You guys are lucky, you guys most likely never belived in god, I hate this, the thing is I don't belive in god based on him been scum not based on proof.

[Hazel-rah]

I totally understand your fears. I clung to Deism for a long time, believing in a god without absolutely no evidence at all, because I wanted to believe that there was more out there.

Though I have come to terms with the fact that there is no evidence for the existence of a god of any kind; and no phenomenon that requires god for the explanation; I do not rule out that the universe is a complex place and may yet surprise me.

Until that time, I will not subjugate myself to the misery of mythological shackles just on the off chance that there is a sadistic god out there who thinks it's funny to mess with our minds. We fill our lives with as much joy as we can, do as little harm as possible, and then the ride is over. If there is nothing afterward, we won't mind, will we? As many say on this forum, we didn't mind non-existence before we were born.

Re: Hell: There's less evidence for hell than there is for a god. I'd relax on that point.

[Jeffrey Formosa]

But I am not believing in god any more because his mind is bull, he is as sick as satan if not more. To get inot heaven is bull, no one some one like him would make people like us, there still may be a afterlife but heaven isn't it, there still might be a god but the Christian god isn't it.

[Viti]

Originally posted by Jeffrey Formosa
You guys are lucky, you guys most likely never belived in god, I hate this, the thing is I don't belive in god based on him been scum not based on proof.

Most people here were Christians at some point.

[Yahzi]

Originally posted by Jeffrey Formosa
I don't want to be a Christian but I don't want to believe in no afterlife.... I am going to try and find ever beliefe there is, maybe I will find the right one.
Your search is over. What you are seeking is the Holy Church of Yahzi (Reformed Synod). It's tenets are quite simple:

1. Follow the Golden Rule.

2. Stop worrying about shit you can't do anything about anyway, like for instance, what happens when you die.

3. Keep a baseball bat handy.

:)


(Mods: How is it possible that this belongs in BC&H?)

[Toto]

I think this thread belongs in Secular Lifestyle and Support.

[NeoApostate]

Originally posted by Jeffrey Formosa
You guys are lucky, you guys most likely never belived in god, I hate this, the thing is I don't belive in god based on him been scum not based on proof.

Actually, I was a devout Christian since 8 and just recently deconverted earlier this year. It was very tough, and nearly killed me. I feel your pain, as I would not wish what I went through on my worst enemy.

I'm finally finding some light at the end of the tunnel, so all I can say is hang in there, no matter what outcome you come to. If you do go back to Christianity and that makes you happy, great. (Though since you, like me, are basing your crisis of faith more on the character of god rather than evidence of existence, I think it would be hard to go back.)

If anything, realize that it's not as bleak as it seems, with "hell or nothing" as you put it. Heck, if you can come to the realization that God's character is lacking, then that seems to show you have a morality that surpasses the concept of a deity, and I think that at least gives some hope for something better than just 'nothing.' There are other religious as well, if like you said you still believe in some concept of a god.

I didn't think there was any hope for quite some time, as when I lost my Christian worldview I had no guides to another, I fell into nihilism for a while and even planned out my own demise. Just find something, anything to hang on to and eventually this will pass.

Not sure if any of this is very helpful - I don't exactly consider myself very wise, so take anything I say with a grain of salt. It's just that I'm reminded of my own experiences that happened recently, and wanted to give what little encouragement I can.

[Space Chef]

If you're serious, here's a suggestion...

Read the "Space Odyssey" series. I'm totally serious. Whether you hate sci-fi or not. The first book, to me, was just mindblowing, and I had seen the film first. The author is Arthur C. Clarke.

The series, to me, is a view of possibilities of this universe. The author said in an introduction (or foreward, whatever), to the first, that it's not a factual book, and it makes no claims to be. He then states "As always, the truth will be far stranger", or something along those lines.

And, always remember, the universe probably had a beginning. Just ponder the idea, think about the cause, but don't anthropomorphize, just let the idea wander. Endless possibilities...

(PS: if someone would like to debate my post and the scientific evidence for/against it, do so in a seperate thread, okay?)

[Gawdawful]

Originally posted by Yahzi
Your search is over. What you are seeking is the Holy Church of Yahzi (Reformed Synod). It's tenets are quite simple:

1. Follow the Golden Rule.

2. Stop worrying about shit you can't do anything about anyway, like for instance, what happens when you die.

3. Keep a baseball bat handy.You forgot one:
4. Give Yahzi 10% of your income.

If you don't like that one, join the First Warren Discount Church, we only charge 5% in tithing.

Note: Not tax deductible.


Warren, prime minister

[lpetrich]

If an afterlife is what's bothering you, then play some Ghost Master and apply a high-tech versions of the argumentum ex litteratura.

[Sedim]

As High Inquisitor, I invite you to come to the one TRUE faith, the worship of her Holy Horniness The Invisible Pink Unicorn (praise be unto her holy horn). Provided you live decently, and drink the occasional pepsi while eating ham and pineapple pizza, you're practically guaranteed to get into the Invisible Pink Beach Party when you die. Discard teh guilt and opression fo other, false faiths. Come to the joyous truth of She Who's Horn Is Eternally Sharp, and know true peace and happiness.



(But seriously, dude, please look into getting professional help with major depression and hopelessness you keep expressing. Continuing this mindset not healthy.)

[Crystal]

Hi, I am not sure if this is much help http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,53709,00.html
Perhaps science one day will find a way to bring us back in far off future it's unlikely :( but it is better than no hope for live after death.

[callmejay]

Being scared of death is sort of like being afraid of being asleep. It's not like it's going to bother you when it happens.

[Sedim]

Here is what I have learned about death, having been honored to attend several dozen passings in my life.
I have learned that it is a natural part of life. I have learned that everyone goes through it, and that it is harder for the survivors than for those who are dying. It is not to be feared, though sometimes it can be hard to let go. When your time comes, there is a certain peace to it. I have seen people smile the most beautiful face-lighting smiles, as they exhale their last breath. And I have learned that religion has absolutely nothing to do with the actual passing. People from all walks of life and all forms of faith/non-faith have had beautiful, peaceful passings.
Take some time, meditate, face your feelings and fears honestly. if you want to talk a little more deeply I'm here and can be PM'd.

[Invisible Insanity]

Originally posted by Jeffrey Formosa
You guys are lucky, you guys most likely never belived in god, I hate this, the thing is I don't belive in god based on him been scum not based on proof.

I was a Roman Catholic-->Seventh Day Adventist-->Born Again Christian-->Atheist I have been atheist ever since. Like you, I too went through a horrible deconversion. I thought that my life had no purpose any more and an overall sense of desperation clouded my life. All I can say is that when you finally look within yourself, you will find joy again. As a theist, what I liked and what I wanted were determined by what God liked and God wanted. My sense of Identity was only as deep as my understanding. When the house of cards fell, so did everything else in my life, because everything I did hinged on the idea that God exists and spoke to me via the Bible. I went through different belief systems as the cracks in my theism became more apparent. All I can say is start to have faith in yourself and stop worrying about the hereafter when you have a perfectly good life now to lead. Should there be an afterlife, we will worry about then, but to worry about that now is a waste of time and a waste of energy.

[variant 13]

Originally posted by callmejay
Being scared of death is sort of like being afraid of being asleep. It's not like it's going to bother you when it happens.

No it's not!!!!! You get to wake up from sleep.

I don't fear death (yet) but I sure as hell (damn what would be an atheist way of saying that?) don't have to like it.

[Jeffrey Formosa]

There may be a afterlife, can you all stop talking for the whole world, there are many people who need, want and believe in a afterlife, call me a mad man if you want but I am not going to think that death is the end.

[Corona688]

Originally posted by Jeffrey Formosa
There may be a afterlife That's the theism talking.can you all stop talking for the whole world Then why did you ask? there are many people who need, want and believe in a afterlife, call me a mad man if you want but I am not going to think that death is the end. Why would you WANT to live forever?

[variant 13]

Why would you WANT to live forever?

Why not?

Though maybe not forever, just a lot longer than I have.

[The Other Michael]

Hello Jeffrey Formosa,

Sam Clemens (Mark Twain) allegedly said: "I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit."

You are here NOW. We don't have evidence for anything continuing after death. Enjoy your life while you can experience - being dead isn't likely to be much to write home about.

good luck,
Michael

[Angrillori]

The Mark Twain idea is what got me and my wife by:

Heck, I didn't mind the first 15 billion years I didn't exist, I don't imagine I'll miss the next ones.

'Course, I didn't know Mark Twain said it. I thought that I thought it up myself!

:D

[Jeffrey Formosa]

Then what about NDE, the afterlife choose thing may be true.

[Bright Life]

Originally posted by Jeffrey Formosa
Then what about NDE, the afterlife choose thing may be true.

Sorry Jeffrey, but this phenomena has been satisfactorily explained. The whole "light at the end of the tunnel" thing can be regularly duplicated--and often is during pilot and astronaut training for high G-force exposure.

Are you looking for an afterlife because you think you'll be happier then, than you are now? If so, you're cheating yourself out of the most valuable possession we, as humans, have--life.

You've got some more deconversion work to do. Perhaps reading some authors who have come to peace with their realizations would give you comfort. If so, just ask. I know folks here could give you plenty of great titles.

All the best,

BL

[sweep]

I will go to hell Jeffrey Formosa- you don't have to worry. The twentieth century is over. World war is over. medieval logic is over. Hell ends. If living things were not able to die, then hell could be a real possibility.

or into nothing
no living thing has ever been there. you are the meeting of gene and environment.

I hate this world-------- I just want a good afterlife you hate what your ancestors have done for you? You hate all the blood that was spilled, for your freedom? without the struggle for functional life, there is no after, IMO.

[callmejay]

I hate this world-------- I just want a good afterlife

It sounds to me like what you really need is to figure out how to start enjoying "this" world. Maybe you could see a counselor about the fact that you hate this world? It doesn't have to be so bad. I used to be really upset, too, and now I'm much better.

[BruceWane]

Originally posted by Jeffrey Formosa
Then what about NDE, the afterlife choose thing may be true.

The typical near-death-experience (tunnel, white light, scenes from life, etc...) is completely consistent with the symptons of the brain starving for oxygen. Air-Force pilots often experience this kind of thing if they are subjected to strong enough g-forces to force blood out of the brain.

Think about it......the only reason people believe in an afterlife is because they are aware of death. We somehow interpret intelligence as evidence of "something more" or a "soul". So....do dogs and cats have an afterlife? Some people think they do......how about apes? How about your pet goldfish? How about cockroaches? How about your houseplant? Where is the line between soul/no soul?

Religion feeds on the human proclivity to egotism - "I am special, I have a soul, which no other creature has". Yeah, right.....get over yourself. You're a smart animal at the top of the food chain. Enjoy it.

Religion is the ultimate scam. It gives you the disease (sin, guilt, and a soul - the key to eternal suffering) and the cure (redemption, eternal happiness).

[Mageth]

Former Christian/afterlife believer here, too.

Jeffrey, investigate other philosophies/religions if it will make you feel better. Look into Eastern philosophies, esp. Buddhism in its various forms. An interesting book I've read that helped allay my carryover fears from growing up in the clutches of theism, and to embrace this life, was Joseph Campbell's An Open Life.

This life is what is important; you cannot (at least it is difficult to) lead a fulfilling life here-and-now if you're constantly worried about the possibility of an afterlife. I, lacking belief in god(s), believe that I should live my life as well as possible, enjoying it as much as possible, with the tools and input, and within the environment, that has been "given" me. I accept and welcome this life for what it is. If I do this, even if there is a god and/or an afterlife, I can conceive of no god that would unjustly punish me for doing my best. If there is such a god that would punish us for doing our best with what we've got, that god is not worthy of our service or worship.

[brighid]

Jeffrey,

I am sorry to hear that you are in so much pain, but you have been given some excellent advise. The here and now IS ALL we know we have. There is no guarantee that you, or anyone else, will live beyond this moment. Therefore, imo, you must simply live the life you have, and life it to the fullest.

Maybe there is an afterlife. No one has actually come back from the great beyond to tell us what REALLY is or is not there.

What we do know is that death is a natural part of life, and a necessary part of life. Everything dies. Even our own sun will someday cease to give life to our planet. I use to believe in an afterlife. I hope there is an afterlife, because the thought is comforting. However, I am doubtful I will exist in any recognizable form once I breathe my last breath.

Take your time with the deconversion process. Mine took years. I was born and raised Catholic, became a liberal Christian, then a Deist, a pagan and finally an atheist (although I consider myself a secular pagan, but that is for another discussion.)

Explore our libraries, as they are vast, informative and a well-spring of knowledge.

Death will happen, and if this life is the only one we can be sure of, it makes no sense wasting it through worry and heartache caused by the "unknown", or "what if." Live a good, moral life and if there is an afterlife and any sort of perfectly moral God your soul will be safe, regardless of what theists will tell you. Common sense dictates that a morally perfect God could not condemn an honest atheist for nothing but a lack of belief.

Know you are not alone, and try to learn to appreciate the beauty in life.

Brighid

[sbaii]

If you're talking about choosing your own afterlife, I say whatever gets you through this transition time. It's hard to come cold turkey off a religion that took over so much of your waking thoughts and emotions. If you know what you don't like about the god of the Old Testament or the whole Bible, then you can try out buddhism or some new age religion. If you are feeling suicidal, I'd advise that you see a therapist. After all, if this is all there is, you don't want to shorten your time or be miserable all the time. There are plenty of people here who have been through what you're going through.
I became an agnostic some time while in college after being propagandized by the R.Catholic church since infancy. I have struggled with the loss of an afterlife. I guess it just seemed another childish idea to put aside. Maybe my existential trauma is yet to come.

[one ryder]

Jeffery,

It really sounds as if you need some professional help. At least to get you through the initial stages of your deconversion. You're displaying symptoms of clinical depression. There are people who are trained to help you cope with your feelings of hopelessness and fear, and who can offer positive methods for replacing them with hope and confidence. Find one soon. You don't need to try to deal with this struggle alone. Trust me, I've been there...

one ryder

[Primordial Groove]

You dont die. You convert. Granted, your conversion is nothing to write home to mom about, but, your energy keeps going..in one form or another.
You could look into cryonics. Although, at this stage, it's not real promising on bringing you back, but hey, scientific knowledge grows every day. Perhaps one will bring you back from your corpscicle state.

Cheer up man. Death depression sux. I still have days when it is almost overwhelming, but, I look at my family and think of the limited time we will be together and I do something to make the time memorable. This always helps me through.

[Zygote]

A favorite tale of my childhood involved a mortal visiting an afterlife. People who died could stay there as long as something they had made survived back in the world of the living. A man was there because the house that he had built was still standing, but his wife was not, because the meals she made were all eaten up and nothing was ever left. I weave partly so that my woven work will outlast me and bring pleasure or inspiration even after I am gone.

We live on in the hearts and minds of those who outlive us, as well as in the tangible works we leave behind. And even if our names are forgotten, the consequences of our efforts, our work, our kindess will continue to affect generations to come.

My grandfather said that we are each like a stone thrown into a pool. The ripples it causes move out in ever widening circles and continue to affect the surface of the pond long after the stone itself has dropped out of sight. Live the life you have and try to leave good ripples.

[sbaii]

Zygote: So your nice heart-waarming story implies that few women have an after life because the children they birthed and/or raised don't count as lasting works. I guess we should all start working in marble.

[Zygote]

Personally, I don't believe in any sort of an "afterlife." Memories of the deceased remain in those who survive them. Physical mementos help stimulate and preserve those memories. The ripples that women set in motion in their childrearing will long outlast them. Whether a name is attributed to that influence depends, in part, on other artifacts being left behind.

I liked the fable because it pointed a way to being remembered. I've never been much of one for bowing to gender expectations. My response to the fable was not one of "Oh shoot, I'm female, I'll be forgotten." It was more like "Cool, I'd rather build than cook anyway." If cooking or something else ephemeral is your shtick and you want to be remembered, write a book, even if it is handwritten and never goes beyond your own family.

I don't condone the phenomenon of women being more often forgotten, I only report it. As my daughter's favorite button says "Well behaved women seldom make history."