hi

[tek]

I think its kinda hypocritical that school would teach evolution and not about God, evolution is not a fact its a belief no doctor, scientist ect have any cold hard facts that evolution took place so they have to have faith to believe that, so in a way its a religion, that is teached around in school. at least God is a more intelligent argument I mean the World cannot get up and say well im going to make myself today, im going to make men and put eyes on them so they can see and ears, if you look rightly at the world you can clearly see that it took a creator an intelligent being beyond our minds, all powerful all knowing. if you dont believe in God thats like saying that you believe the world is made up of billions and billions of coincidences, There is a God bottom line.

[Shpongle]

*yawn*

[pz]

Originally posted by tek
I think its[sic] kinda hypocritical that school would teach evolution and not about God, evolution is not a fact its a belief no doctor, scientist ect[sic] have any cold hard facts that evolution took place so they have to have faith to believe that, so in a way its a religion, that is teached[sic] around in school. at least God is a more intelligent argument I mean the World cannot get up and say well im[sic] going to make myself today, im[sic] going to make men and put eyes on them so they can see and ears, if you look rightly at the world you can clearly see that it took a creator an intelligent being beyond our minds, all powerful all knowing. if[sic] you dont believe in God thats like saying that you believe the world is made up of billions and billions of coincidences, There is a God bottom line. Hmmm. Poor grammar, punctuation, run-on sentences...just what is "teached" in your school?

I mean this seriously: you've come along with a first post that demonstrates serious deficits in your education, and you think anyone is going to take you seriously when you claim that scientists lack cold hard facts about evolution? We have them. They are about as definite as the fact that the English language includes apostrophes, of which you also seem to be unaware.

I strongly urge you to browse the talk.origins archive (http://www.talkorigins.org/), where you will find plenty of supporting evidence for evolution. Question everything you read, but before you come scurrying to iidb with yet another vague declaration culled from the creationist dishonesty of Gish, Hovind, Baugh, or Johnson, you might also want to see if your misconception has already been addressed in Mark Isaak's list of creationist errors (http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html). For instance, your current fuzzy claim is well addressed on this page (http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA202.html).

[disgracian]

i wonder how many times people will jump on this merry-go-round? new guy comes in, peels off some ancient cliches and before you know it everybody has jumped in stacks on the mill and there are over 100 replies to a pointless thread.

if the forum software allows it, why not implement some kind of waiting period before you can post, say for example one week after registering? the only users this would deter are the sort we probably don't want around here anyway.

[Duvenoy]

Originally posted by tek
I think its kinda hypocritical that school would teach evolution and not about God, evolution is not a fact its a belief no doctor, scientist ect have any cold hard facts that evolution took place so they have to have faith to believe that, so in a way its a religion, that is teached around in school. at least God is a more intelligent argument I mean the World cannot get up and say well im going to make myself today, im going to make men and put eyes on them so they can see and ears, if you look rightly at the world you can clearly see that it took a creator an intelligent being beyond our minds, all powerful all knowing. if you dont believe in God thats like saying that you believe the world is made up of billions and billions of coincidences, There is a God bottom line.

What a remarkable sentence!

I'm not sure I understand all of it, but really!

What pz said: check out talk Origins. And please clean up your writing. My eyes are too old to be picking at run-ons.

doov

[Evolutionist]

actually, i find posts like this (as well as most of the evolution posts at Tweb etc) to be most depressing. as if i wasn't sure enough about the stupidness of humanity- people always have to go and prove me right...

[S2Focus]

Originally posted by pz
Hmmm. Poor grammar, punctuation, run-on sentences...just what is "teached" in your school?

I mean this seriously: you've come along with a first post that demonstrates serious deficits in your education, and you think anyone is going to take you seriously when you claim that scientists lack cold hard facts about evolution? We have them. They are about as definite as the fact that the English language includes apostrophes, of which you also seem to be unaware.

........



tek's profile pretty much sums it up:

Interests: bible. videogames


So we have bible-waving and videogame playing: not much gray-matter stimulation involved with those activities! For your sanity, let's hope that this isn't a representative sample of future college students....

[GunnerJ]

So we have bible-waving and videogame playing: not much gray-matter stimulation involved with those activities!

It depends vastly on the type of games you play. Perhaps you might try looking at gaming as a whole instead of focusing on just the GTA-style, lets-go-kill-hookers-for-a-few-hours hurf-hurf-breaking-the-law type of game. Almost every genre of video games has the potential to be mentally stimulating, and this potential is often met.

EDIT: While I am indeed continuing a huge digression, I have to wonder just what is being stimulated by videogame play if not the brain? The heart? The lungs? Maybe the hands, but only as it relates to hand-eye coordination, a fuction of the brain. Gaming is an almost entirely cerebral activity.

-GunnerJ, lifelong gamer

[variant 13]

Originally posted by S2Focus
...videogame playing: not much gray-matter stimulation involved with those activities!

What it buddy!!! :mad:

I like playing games.:D

[Shpongle]

Originally posted by S2Focus
So we have bible-waving and videogame playing: not much gray-matter stimulation involved with those activities!

For what it's worth...

Computer games 'make children more intelligent' (http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_357257.html?menu=news.technology.computergames)

[NottyImp]

Perhaps Tek should consider the amount of science that went into his game console before decrying the work of literally tens-of-thousands of scientists working in the field of evolutionary biology.

Or did God give it to you, Tek?

[S2Focus]

Originally posted by Jmebob
What it buddy!!! :mad:

I like playing games.:D

Oooops! Looks like I kinda stepped in it here...

It looks like I was totally off-base with regard to video-game
playing, so I'm gonna take back what I said about that activity.
But I'll stand by what I said about Bible-waving!

Tek would be well advised to put down his video-game
and bible long enough to read (for comprehension) some of the material
at www.talkorigins.org.

[Veovis]

Aww... Have a little mercy on the poor guy. Maybe his lack of English grammar skills is due to the fact that he is a recent US immigrant. In that case, many of us on this board can speak more than one language. I myself can speak a bit of Spanish. Albeit, I am only a second year Spanish student, but I think I could probably BS my way through a reply. I'd even translate it to English to the best of my abilities. If Spanish isn't your native language, perhaps another kind person who can speak your mother tounge.

In other words;

Aquí se habla un poco de español. :)

[Jack the Bodiless]

tek:

Actually, evolution IS a fact. It HAS been proved that evolution is happening, right now, before our very eyes.

Now, if you want to argue that evolution isn't adequate to explain the compexity of life on Earth, and that something else is also going on, then YOU need to prove that evolution can't do the job (which would require learning about it: would it surprise you to learn that no creationist with a degree in Evolutionary Biology has ever been found, anywhere in the world?), or to prove that this "something else" actually exists.

...But this "something else" is definitely NOT the Biblical God. The Bible has been DISproved.

[Red Expendable]

Originally posted by disgracian
i wonder how many times people will jump on this merry-go-round? new guy comes in, peels off some ancient cliches and before you know it everybody has jumped in stacks on the mill and there are over 100 replies to a pointless thread.

if the forum software allows it, why not implement some kind of waiting period before you can post, say for example one week after registering? the only users this would deter are the sort we probably don't want around here anyway.

I'm not sure that's the best policy. I think that it's important to challenge people to THINK. If someone is ignorant about a subject and comes in blasting it, then why not debate it with the person. They MIGHT learn something from the deabte, and learn more about science.

Is that not what this board is all about? Learning, deabting, etc.

It could cause a person to have doubts about their own religion/superstitions, and research and learn about evolution, science, etc.

That would not be a bad thing, eh?

RedEx

[Duvenoy]

I myself, am delighted to see folks like tek come into this forum. Some few of them open their eyes and begin to examine the sillier aspects of their beliefs. Will tek be one of these? I don't know, but I'll certainly give him/her every opportunity.

The information, as accurate as possible, to be found here is vast and of great value. How better to pass it along than in written conversation?

doov

[disgracian]

Originally posted by Red Expendable
I'm not sure that's the best policy. I think that it's important to challenge people to THINK. If someone is ignorant about a subject and comes in blasting it, then why not debate it with the person. They MIGHT learn something from the deabte, and learn more about science.

Is that not what this board is all about? Learning, deabting, etc.

It could cause a person to have doubts about their own religion/superstitions, and research and learn about evolution, science, etc.

That would not be a bad thing, eh?

RedEx if the person is serious, then they are likely to wait out the week. if they're just looking to stir trouble then they probably won't wiat; they'll just move on and find a forum without a waiting period. win-win situation for us.

[MrDarwin]

Originally posted by tek
I think its kinda hypocritical that school would teach evolution and not about God, evolution is not a fact its a belief no doctor, scientist ect have any cold hard facts that evolution took place so they have to have faith to believe that, so in a way its a religion, that is teached around in school.

Cold hard fact: the animals and plants that were alive on the earth 500 million years ago were nothing like the ones that are alive today. Cold hard fact: the earth is littered with the remains of millions of species that no longer exist. Cold hard fact: life on earth has changed--and changed dramatically--over time.

Every fossil is a cold hard fact. Every layer of petrified sediment is a cold hard fact. Every measurement or observation a scientist (or any person who cares to investigate the subject) makes is a cold hard fact. And you know what? An awful lot of them have piled up over the years. Evolution is a cold hard fact just as much as George Washington being the first president of the United States is a cold hard fact.

at least God is a more intelligent argument I mean the World cannot get up and say well im going to make myself today, im going to make men and put eyes on them so they can see and ears, if you look rightly at the world you can clearly see that it took a creator an intelligent being beyond our minds, all powerful all knowing. if you dont believe in God thats like saying that you believe the world is made up of billions and billions of coincidences, There is a God bottom line.

tek, I already asked you in the other discussion you started (1) why you would think that evolution has anything to do with the existence or nonexistence of God(s)--many people manage to believe in both--and (2) why you would think the world we see around us is anything other than exactly what an "all powerfulu all knowing" wanted it to be right from the start.

You complained about the other thread you started being moved, after failing to offer any backing for your assertions or to answer any of the questions that were put to you. You're not making a good start with this one. You have most certainly not made any kind of "intelligent argument". If you want to be taken the least bit seriously--and you don't want to look like an atheist posing as a Christian in an attempt to make Christians look foolish, which has happened before--I would suggest you give us something more than mindless preaching.

[MrDarwin]

Originally posted by tek
I think its kinda hypocritical that school would teach evolution and not about God

After mulling this over, I find I have to agree with you: teachers most definitely should discuss God(s), and with respect to evolution, the fact that there is no religion on earth whose written traditions and folklore can adequately explain what we have discovered to be true about the ancient history of the earth and in particular the things that live upon it.

[Ellis14]

Originally posted by tek
I think its kinda hypocritical that school would teach evolution and not about God, evolution is not a fact its a belief no doctor, scientist ect have any cold hard facts that evolution took place so they have to have faith to believe that, so in a way its a religion, that is teached around in school. at least God is a more intelligent argument I mean the World cannot get up and say well im going to make myself today, im going to make men and put eyes on them so they can see and ears, if you look rightly at the world you can clearly see that it took a creator an intelligent being beyond our minds, all powerful all knowing. if you dont believe in God thats like saying that you believe the world is made up of billions and billions of coincidences, There is a God bottom line.

Here in the UK, Religious Education is part of the syllabus. In America, this is unconstitutional. Schools should be all means address these issues but the misunderstanding is that God and Creationism are scientific theories; they are not!

Creationism and intelligent design are topics of philosophy. They are pseudoscience because they are religious dogma posing as real science. The micro and macro evolution of species is a scientific fact. No amount of apologetics, misrepresentation, dogma, poor reasoning, evolution-attacks or bad science is going to change this.

The confusing thing for me, is why ridiculous posts like the above demonstrate that theists see a God vs Evolution battle. There is none. God is not a scientific theory. Evolution explains how the world is, God explains why. This "holy war" against evolution is fought mainly by Christians because they want everyone, especially our children, to believe that God created them uniquely and specially on this planet. You might reject this narrow dogmatic view of the world but that doesn't mean rejecting God.

Evolution doesn't mean that God doesn't exist.

[Herakles]

Originally posted by tek
I think its kinda hypocritical that school would teach evolution and not about God, evolution is not a fact its a belief no doctor, scientist ect have any cold hard facts that evolution took place so they have to have faith to believe that, so in a way its a religion, that is teached around in school. at least God is a more intelligent argument I mean the World cannot get up and say well im going to make myself today, im going to make men and put eyes on them so they can see and ears, if you look rightly at the world you can clearly see that it took a creator an intelligent being beyond our minds, all powerful all knowing. if you dont believe in God thats like saying that you believe the world is made up of billions and billions of coincidences, There is a God bottom line.

First of all you need to understand what evolution means. It is the change in a deme's gene pool over many generations. When cosmologists or astronomers talk about stellar or galactic evolution they are refererring to a completely different type of change that has nothing to do with biological evolution. Evolution is not "billions and billions of coincidences" either, but the result of mutations (the chance part of it) plus a type of natural selection or genetic drift.

As for the evidence for common descent, it has been piling up over the past 150 years. For just a few of these go here (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/). If you want more, I suggest making a visit to the library.

P.S. Maybe you should be more concerned about what they teach in English class instead of science class.

[RHeanna]

Originally posted by pz
Hmmm. Poor grammar, punctuation, run-on sentences...just what is "teached" in your school?

I mean this seriously: you've come along with a first post that demonstrates serious deficits in your education, and you think anyone is going to take you seriously when you claim that scientists lack cold hard facts about evolution? We have them. They are about as definite as the fact that the English language includes apostrophes, of which you also seem to be unaware.

you say you have cold hard facts where are they?????
Oh yeah on those pages.Cold hard facts to me are things that are plain as day to see and all I see are links to pages of thoughts of others not cold hard facts.If you feel so strongly about it then why not take his post word by word and disprove it??? (in your own words in which you seem to hold yourself above others concerning punctuation and spelling)Come on lets hear those cold hard facts.It is so easy to hold ourselves above others when we think we know it all as you have demonstrated here.
You pick on the punctuation and spelling to hide the fact you cannot disprove what he says nor can you prove in your own words what you believe.So instead of staying quiet and saying nothing and saving space you try to stomp on someone and scare them off I saw no intelligent remarks in your post.Why is it that people who are smart like to stomp on others ?So they can walk away and evolve into a super human ?Is that what you call evolution?Have you evolved into a greater human being now that you have so smartly picked apart the words of one simple person?
the foolish things of this world have confound you oh wise one and the weak has confounded the mighty.Do you see it?No you dont.


I strongly urge you to browse the talk.origins archive (http://www.talkorigins.org/), where you will find plenty of supporting evidence for evolution. Question everything you read, but before you come scurrying to iidb with yet another vague declaration culled from the creationist dishonesty of Gish, Hovind, Baugh, or Johnson, you might also want to see if your misconception has already been addressed in Mark Isaak's list of creationist errors (http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html). For instance, your current fuzzy claim is well addressed on this page (http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA202.html).

When the people you call Bible thumpers go to quote the Bible you all say I dont believe that book is inspired by God it was just a man that wrote it and then refuse to hear any quote from the Bible.THis person did not come in here quoting Bible Scripture to you.He used his own words to speak with you...what have you done???? Oh yeah the mighty links lol

First you belittle him to make him feel stupid and smaller than you oh wise one then you give links to what you call cold hard facts.Where is your wisdom?Why are you here?To beliittle those who disagree with you?Personally I think this person spoke some things that befuddled you so you stomp on him with words but I tell you that all you have done was come up agaisnt one of the simple that will confound the wise.Speak what you call cold hard facts or say nothing.

[TollHouse]

Originally posted by NottyImp
Perhaps Tek should consider the amount of science that went into his game console ...

... or the technology that allowed him to communicate with us in this manner?!

:eek:

[variant 13]

When the people you call Bible thumpers...

I didn't and I can't see many others calling him/her that.

First you belittle him to make him feel stupid and smaller than you oh wise one then you give links to what you call cold hard facts.

Some were harsh, but not all of us. Some get sick and tired of people who preach, which is what Tek did, about things they don't understand. What do religious people do if a non-believer goes to a reilgion forum and says:

"Religion is stupid its not logical why do you believe in something when there is no evidence for it, and there is evidence that it's wrong."

They get upset.

Personally I think this person spoke some things that befuddled you so you stomp on him with words but I tell you that all you have done was come up agaisnt one of the simple that will confound the wise.

Not me I understood perfectly, only the grammar got me confused. This wasn't the only thread Tek started so people got a bit touchy.

Speak what you call cold hard facts or say nothing.

Stick around we're not bad really. Well not all of us.

[Matrioshka_Brain]

Originally posted by RHeanna
When the people you call Bible thumpers go to quote the Bible you all say I dont believe that book is inspired by God it was just a man that wrote it and then refuse to hear any quote from the Bible.THis person did not come in here quoting Bible Scripture to you.He used his own words to speak with you...what have you done???? Oh yeah the mighty links lol

First you belittle him to make him feel stupid and smaller than you oh wise one then you give links to what you call cold hard facts.Where is your wisdom?Why are you here?To beliittle those who disagree with you?Personally I think this person spoke some things that befuddled you so you stomp on him with words but I tell you that all you have done was come up agaisnt one of the simple that will confound the wise.Speak what you call cold hard facts or say nothing.

1.)Many of the people here have read the bible. Nothing to distingusih it from other cults and mythologies, nothing to make it relevant claimswise. Also contradicts observed reality.

-----------------

2.)"...the mighty links..."

The intent behind the links is to give definition of the subject at hand, give common fallicies used by it's opponents, and give evidence to support the subject at hand (evolution).

The errors of the creationists are vast, so vast as to be insummountable - and we have lives to live. The individual sources of information and evidence are even greater in number.

It is Tek's job to do resarch onto the topic. If he fails to understand the basic theory, evidence for it, and how science works and why it works the way it does, and is given recources (ie. "the computer", books, magazines), the fault lays at least partly on him for the failure of comprehension.

Criticism without adequate knowledge of the subject at hand is superflous, if not stupid.

If he {You Tek, if you're reading this} wants a reccommended reading list, he should ask for one; I'm sure people would be happy to give (and take - if they haven't already) suggestions.

I might suggest offhand The Triumph of Evolution and the Failure of Creationsim (don't know author) for starters (I never actually read the book, however. Got good reviews), in conjuncion with "The mighty links".

------------------

3.)Both you and Tek's spelling, grammar, sentince structure, syntax, typing, proof-reading, logic*, and overall English language skills leave something to be desired; that is not to insult, it is a fact, and something you would do well to improve in.

------------------

4.)Attitude - unjustly negative. It does not serve us to make stuff up, evolution is not a competing belief or ideological system - it is a theory (tested and observed - germs and immunity, selective breeding) based on what has been observed, and is not "written in stone." And keep an open mind.**

_________________________________________
*It would be benificial to understand logical fallicies, tools (ie. Okham's razor, scientific method) in depth. And assertions are useless.

**And yes, this is something we evolutionists do.

[braces_for_impact]

When the people you call Bible thumpers go to quote the Bible you all say I dont believe that book is inspired by God it was just a man that wrote it and then refuse to hear any quote from the Bible.THis person did not come in here quoting Bible Scripture to you.He used his own words to speak with you...what have you done???? Oh yeah the mighty links lol

You have used your own words to speak to us, and yours are almost as difficult to understand for the same reasons. Lack of grammar and punctuation makes it difficult for the rest of us. Proper spelling, grammar and punctuation are necessary, as it makes communicating easier. If we all follow the same rules in writing, it makes everything much clearer and easier to follow. Some are better at this than others, but all should have learned the basics. When one has not used these rules, or refuses to follow them, it brings into serious doubt their ability to critique a major scientific theory. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but it is a "cold, hard fact."

As to your comments about the links. Those are used to fascilitate communication so as to avoid lengthy writing sessions, while allowing the reader to get a good passing understanding of the subject. One does not post a link as their argument, merely as an example of it. The debate can then continue, with the reader point by point critisizing the points made within the links themselves.


First you belittle him to make him feel stupid and smaller than you oh wise one then you give links to what you call cold hard facts.

He is not being belittled, he is being called out. If I were to enter a room full of doctors discussing molecular chemistry, and started spouting off nonsense that clearly demonstrates my ignorance of the subject, while simutaneously telling these same doctors that they are all mistaken in their fields of study, I would be laughed out of the auditorium, and rightly so. That's life.


Where is your wisdom?Why are you here?

There is a difference between knowledge and wisdom. I have some knowedge about the subject matter, though I am far from an expert as some are here. I have enough knowedge in this case to know that as thus far demonstrated, Tek does not know what he is talking about. As for why I am here, that is irrelevant.


To beliittle those who disagree with you?Personally I think this person spoke some things that befuddled you so you stomp on him with words but I tell you that all you have done was come up agaisnt one of the simple that will confound the wise.Speak what you call cold hard facts or say nothing.

Again, he was not being belittled, he was being called out. You may think he has befuddled us, but think about that for just a minute. Do you think he is the first to state his observations as he did in his OP? Do you think he's the last? Don't you think that if it was that incredibly easy to throw evolutionary theory out the window it would have been by now? I mean, if someone who cannot construct a proper sentence can debunk an entire field of science, why has the theory stood firm for so long? Is it a worlwide atheistic scientist conspiracy? Does that really seem plausible?

If Tek wishes to stay and learn he will do so, and he is welcome to do so. But he is going to have to admit when he makes a mistake, as people here WILL call him on it. As far as the last sentence goes in the above quote, I wish more people would follow this advice.

[variant 13]

he Triumph of Evolution and the Failure of Creationsim

I didn't know about this book, I'm off to get it as soon as possible :D

[Matrioshka_Brain]

Originally posted by Jmebob
I didn't know about this book, I'm off to get it as soon as possible :D

Just don't give away the ending ;)

[Karalora]

Originally posted by Matrioshka_Brain
I might suggest offhand The Triumph of Evolution and the Failure of Creationsim (don't know author)

That would be Dr. Niles Eldredge, the late Dr. Stephen Jay Gould's "partner in punk eek". Overall an excellent read and a merciless criticism of the creationist movement in the U.S.

[RHeanna]

Originally posted by Jmebob
I didn't and I can't see many others calling him/her that.

_________________________________________________
I am quoting what i have seen in other post in other groups as well as this one.I believe one used the words Bible waver or something like that.

Some were harsh, but not all of us. Some get sick and tired of people who preach, which is what Tek did, about things they don't understand.
_________________________________________________
getting sick and tired I can identify with.We all get sick and tired.I dont know what other threads he started.You say he does not understand but from what I read he does have an understanding.I also see that he is in the correct catagory to post such things.
_________________________________________________

What do religious people do if a non-believer goes to a reilgion forum and says:
"Religion is stupid its not logical why do you believe in something when there is no evidence for it, and there is evidence that it's wrong."

They get upset.
____________________________________________________
some get upset yes and I would say the same to them who get sick and tired "stay quiet".
I have been an operator in a Christian chatroom and I have come across many who believe as you all do They come in and say nasty things thinking they will shock or upset us but they don't Now there are many Christian chatrooms out there and not all believe the same thing but this room I speak of is different.I have seen people come in and try to debate with us and we welcome them to the room.Yes there are rules just as there are rules here.I went into the room a few years ago and was going in to tell them all the things Jesus wouldn't do for me and to cuss them out.It did not happen the way I thought it would they were patient with me and gave me many things to think about.Since that day I can no longer say that Jesus would do nothing for me.
Not all Christian chatrooms stomp on the small to raise themselves up.
___________________________________________________

Not me I understood perfectly, only the grammar got me confused. This wasn't the only thread Tek started so people got a bit touchy.
____________________________________________________
well if his typing got you confused how is it you can understand me?I am the queen of typo lol. I would like to see these other post that have made people so touchy. I will try to find them.Until then I have many questions as to why people would get touchy over a post.I know whith me when I get touchy it is because someone has spoken a Truth to me that I don't want to recieve.I also get touchy when someone whom i think is below me says something to rattle my whole way of thinking and that is when I pick at the things that will cause the person to run in shame.We all are guilty of this as can be seen here.Now I will go look for his post to see just what this simple person has done to provoke those who have "evolved into super humans". heehee
____________________________________________________



Stick around we're not bad really. Well not all of us.
____________________________________________________
Thanks for the invite :)

[BioBeing]

Originally posted by Ellis10
Here in the UK, Religious Education is part of the syllabus. In America, this is unconstitutional. Schools should be all means address these issues but the misunderstanding is that God and Creationism are scientific theories; they are not!

Agree with the rest, but just a nit pick here. It is only unconstitutional to teach about a god/religion as if that were the only god/religion. It is OK, I think, to teach comparative religion in the state-run schools. However, that probably doesn't happen as often as it should, as the fundy Xians don't want their myths put in the same light as other myths. Isn't the UK supposed to teach various religions, and not focus on Xianity?

[variant 13]

ASk and you shall recieve:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72391

Tek started two thread pretty much about the same in, in the same forum in the space of thirty minutes. Everyone thought he/she was a troll.

And your posts aren't that bad, I just need to find my glasses for next time.:D

[RHeanna]

Originally posted by braces_for_impact
You have used your own words to speak to us, and yours are almost as difficult to understand for the same reasons. Lack of grammar and punctuation makes it difficult for the rest of us. Proper spelling, grammar and punctuation are necessary, as it makes communicating easier. If we all follow the same rules in writing, it makes everything much clearer and easier to follow. Some are better at this than others, but all should have learned the basics. When one has not used these rules, or refuses to follow them, it brings into serious doubt their ability to critique a major scientific theory. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but it is a "cold, hard fact."
_________________________________________________
so one who is not as learned in grammer as you and these others has nothing to offer?You will overlook what one who is not well learned in grammer and not even take into consideration what they say all because oif grammer?Is this what evolution does to you?I want no part of it.I am for what is real and true.As a kid at Christmas did you not want the gift that was not wrapped properly?When you go to wrok to you get sickened by the fact that the small beat up bright orange car is sharing your lane?How dare one whom is not fit to be in your presence dare to drive in your lane lol.Do young children who cannot write deserve to be shunned because they cannot offer you anthing because they are unlearned?If you lost everything (and it happens) and lived on the streets your package would not be complete enough to even be considered by your standards.You seem to have lost something somewhere if you think that only people who spell right and use periods and such are the only ones with something to offer.
__________________________________________________

As to your comments about the links. Those are used to fascilitate communication so as to avoid lengthy writing sessions, while allowing the reader to get a good passing understanding of the subject. One does not post a link as their argument, merely as an example of it. The debate can then continue, with the reader point by point critisizing the points made within the links themselves.
________________________________________________
Going to links to read is understandable but people sure dont mind posting a bunch of junk about someones punctuation rather than facts.How much more could have been said about the actual topic rather than the belittling?
___________________________________________________




He is not being belittled, he is being called out. If I were to enter a room full of doctors discussing molecular chemistry, and started spouting off nonsense that clearly demonstrates my ignorance of the subject, while simutaneously telling these same doctors that they are all mistaken in their fields of study, I would be laughed out of the auditorium, and rightly so. That's life.

_________________________________________________
First off being called out and being belittled are way different.WHy spend so much time debating punctuation rather than what the topic really is?He had valid points but you could not see it therfore you stomp him down using your big fancy words and all you little commas and think that because you understand grammer that you are above the rest that don't.Oh you are missing the big picture. FOr one who would go into a room with a bunch of doctors to show them where they have been mistaken I say that person has more smarts and more courage than all who would stomp him down and run him off.
________________________________________________



There is a difference between knowledge and wisdom. I have some knowedge about the subject matter, though I am far from an expert as some are here. I have enough knowedge in this case to know that as thus far demonstrated, Tek does not know what he is talking about. As for why I am here, that is irrelevant.
___________________________________________________
yes there is a difference between Knowledge and wisdom I am glad you know that.You say you have some knowedge about the subject matter yet you over look the simple because it just don't look right.Maybe you need to change the subject matter you are studing and rather go down to the back streets and alleys and see how the rest of the world lives and listen to their wisdom and their knowledge.They too have something to add don't they?Or is it all about who can have the prettiest package and the fanciest words?That is what I have gotten so far in this group.You are so concerned with how the package is presented that you cannot see what it really is and that I find sad.
_________________________________________________


Again, he was not being belittled, he was being called out. You may think he has befuddled us, but think about that for just a minute. Do you think he is the first to state his observations as he did in his OP? Do you think he's the last? Don't you think that if it was that incredibly easy to throw evolutionary theory out the window it would have been by now? I mean, if someone who cannot construct a proper sentence can debunk an entire field of science, why has the theory stood firm for so long? Is it a worlwide atheistic scientist conspiracy? Does that really seem plausible?
________________________________________________
Actually that is what befuddled me.I know he is not the first nor is he the last it is your responses to him that show your confusion.Now I ask you the same question if Creation by One God is so way out there why has it been around so long?He did debunk your theroy you just can't see past the the spelling and punctuation to even see what is there.
__________________________________________________
If Tek wishes to stay and learn he will do so, and he is welcome to do so. But he is going to have to admit when he makes a mistake, as people here WILL call him on it. As far as the last sentence goes in the above quote, I wish more people would follow this advice.


____________________________________________________
THis debate started with a genuine post with genuine Truth .Some want to post links and waste space to "belittle " him instead of overlooking a fault and then he is supposed to admit it???lol I admit it I cannot spell good nor am I good at punctuation and that did not hurt one bit to say. I am sure he would admit it too but you see he has a more important things to concern himself with and that is your souls.Did it ever occur to you that aside from spelling and puntuation he might have something to say?You don't see it and my hearts breaks more so for all of you.There is more to life then pretty things all tied up neatly. I am done in this place tek has told you all the Truth and there will come a day that you will all be reminded of this and you will not be able to say you did not know.God sent tek to you and because his spelling and punctuation you discredit him.One day EVERY knee will bow...those who believe will bow and those who do not believe will also bow the difference is it will be their last and that is sad all over spelling a punctuation.
I pray that the Lord Jesus Christ will reveal Himself to you in a way that you can not deny that He is real.

[Shpongle]

Originally posted by RHeanna
THis debate started with a genuine post with genuine Truth .

This "debate" started with a wholesale appeal to incredulity.

Once you've seen that trotted out a few dozen times, it gets old. Small wonder no one has patience for it.

One day EVERY knee will bow...those who believe will bow and those who do not believe will also bow the difference is it will be their last and that is sad all over spelling a punctuation.


And then all the believers will be in for a rude shock when Cthulhu begins devouring their souls.

[AndresDeLaHoz]

Yes, it ocurred to me that he had something to say besides all the grammar mistakes.

Then I read the post and realized no, he had nothing to say. Because nothing of what he's saying makes any sense whatsoever, and is completely separated from the reality of evolutionary theory. Regardless of whether you want to capitalize the word Truth and wrap it around what he said, it just isn't so.

[Mageth]

"Grammar? We don't need no stinking grammar!" ;)

RHeanna:
I am sure he would admit it too but you see he has a more important things to concern himself with and that is your souls.Did it ever occur to you that aside from spelling and puntuation he might have something to say?You don't see it and my hearts breaks more so for all of you.There is more to life then pretty things all tied up neatly. I am done in this place tek has told you all the Truth and there will come a day that you will all be reminded of this and you will not be able to say you did not know.


I read tek's post. Even if it were rewritten by an English Professor, it would still simply boil down to an argument from emotion and incredulity, with no supporting evidence (which seems to be your preferred argument as well). The real problem isn't the grammar (I'm with you on that), it's the lack of meaningful content.

One day EVERY knee will bow...those who believe will bow and those who do not believe will also bow the difference is it will be their last and that is sad all over spelling a punctuation.

I find this quite an amusing sentence. God's going to condemn some people because of spelling and punctuation?

And veiled threats of eternal damnation (which belong to the particular myth you believe in, and which most of us here do not; yet another emotional appeal) won't get you anywhere around here.

I pray that the Lord Jesus Christ will reveal Himself to you in a way that you can not deny that He is real.

Instead, he apparently sends posters like tek and yourself to trot out the same emotional spiel.

[variant 13]

I still hope you stay around as you were doing so well up until your last post which went a bit off on it's own.

Out of interest:

He did debunk your theroy you just can't see past the the spelling and punctuation to even see what is there.

Just how did he do it? I still know evolution is an established theory, I can't see anything that he said that changes it.

I'm not one for fancy words either so I rarely use them.

[Albion]

Isn't the UK supposed to teach various religions, and not focus on Xianity?

I don't think that's a requirement. I remember RE lessons being basically about the Bible. We didn't get into comparative-religion studies right away, and the two Jewish girls and one Catholic in our class didn't attend RE lessons. This (http://www.nc.uk.net/webdav/servlet/XRM?Page/@id=6004&Subject/@id=7881&Session/@id=D_5tUMAqvYc22VM76mHQks) is the National Curriculum page on the subject.

[Albion]

His debate started with a genuine post with genuine Truth .Some want to post links and waste space to "belittle " him instead of overlooking a fault and then he is supposed to admit it???lol I admit it I cannot spell good nor am I good at punctuation and that did not hurt one bit to say. I am sure he would admit it too but you see he has a more important things to concern himself with and that is your souls.

Well, you know, that's sort of too bad. This isn't an appropriate forum to start enquiring about the state of other people's souls. Preaching and proselytising aren't the purpose of this forum, and evolution isn't equivalent to atheism anyway.


Did it ever occur to you that aside from spelling and puntuation he might have something to say?You don't see it and my hearts breaks more so for all of you.There is more to life then pretty things all tied up neatly. I am done in this place tek has told you all the Truth and there will come a day that you will all be reminded of this and you will not be able to say you did not know.God sent tek to you and because his spelling and punctuation you discredit him.One day EVERY knee will bow...those who believe will bow and those who do not believe will also bow the difference is it will be their last and that is sad all over spelling a punctuation.

Why, exactly, are you so sure that everybody who accepts evolution is an atheist?


I pray that the Lord Jesus Christ will reveal Himself to you in a way that you can not deny that He is real.

But that's the problem, isn't it? God doesn't seem to go in for that sort of proof. Nor does that stop a lot of people who accept evolution from also believing in God. You're fighting the wrong battle.

[variant 13]

Isn't the UK supposed to teach various religions, and not focus on Xianity?

Not at all, there are religious state schools that teach their own religion and maybe tiny bit about other religions. But it doesn't hav to be equal or fair (or even true).

I remember back to my school days (all those years ago, 7 years I think), a catholic school, and the day in RE we cover Islam (1 day) and we learnt that they were trying to kill a bloke that converted to christianity and that was it. I had woken up to the bollocks a year before that but this just confimed it.

[Ellis14]

Originally posted by RHeanna
____________________________________________________
THis debate started with a genuine post with genuine Truth .Some want to post links and waste space to "belittle " him instead of overlooking a fault and then he is supposed to admit it???lol I admit it I cannot spell good nor am I good at punctuation and that did not hurt one bit to say. I am sure he would admit it too but you see he has a more important things to concern himself with and that is your souls.Did it ever occur to you that aside from spelling and puntuation he might have something to say?You don't see it and my hearts breaks more so for all of you.There is more to life then pretty things all tied up neatly. I am done in this place tek has told you all the Truth and there will come a day that you will all be reminded of this and you will not be able to say you did not know.God sent tek to you and because his spelling and punctuation you discredit him.One day EVERY knee will bow...those who believe will bow and those who do not believe will also bow the difference is it will be their last and that is sad all over spelling a punctuation.
I pray that the Lord Jesus Christ will reveal Himself to you in a way that you can not deny that He is real.

Is it me, or are there remarkable similarities between RHeanna's posts and Tek's. Amazing that RHeanna seems to know Tek so well as well. Perhaps they are both inspired?

The above quote has been debunked anyway so I won't comment much on it, except for this:
there will come a day that you will all be reminded of this and you will not be able to say you did not know
Know what? If God is going to punish us for not listening to Tek or yourself or whoever, He should send someone or something that is argumentatively sound, logically, provable, rational, meaningful and non-contradictory. He shouldn't expect us to listen and believe on faith or emotion alone, He should go out of His way to demonstrate his existence instead of hide it, so that we can indeed believe.

This is the kind of crap that annoys me from theists: coming into a forum or entering your life for 10 seconds in one day, declaring the "truth" to you, without proof, or reason, or evidence, or logic, and indeed a complete refusal to listen to such, and then announce "well you've been told now, I've done my part, I truly hope you listen because God loves you...If you don't listen God will kill you and it's your own fault."

Give it up please! Even if your God existed you are doing Him a diservice by implying that He would be so ruthless, irrational and illogical to smite innocent people who simply required proof. Stop deluding yourself. You might be happy to convince yourself on blind faith; atheists aren't, and if a loving understanding God existed, I truly believe that he would appreciate this.

[GunnerJ]

One more argument for/against the existance of god or appeal to Jebus saving souls and this thread will have to go Elsewhere.

-GunnerJ, E/C Mod

[Mageth]

Originally posted by Ellis10
Is it me, or are there remarkable similarities between RHeanna's posts and Tek's. Amazing that RHeanna seems to know Tek so well as well. Perhaps they are both inspired?

I noticed the same thing, but didn't mention it. I'm not quite sure what to make of it.

[Doubting Didymus]

There is no need to make anything of it. There is nothing at all to suggest sockpuppetry, and this would be the wrong place to discuss it if there were.

[Mageth]

Originally posted by Doubting Didymus
There is no need to make anything of it. There is nothing at all to suggest sockpuppetry, and this would be the wrong place to discuss it if there were.

Agreed, and that's precisely why I didn't mention it. ;)

[MrDarwin]

Originally posted by RHeanna
Did it ever occur to you that aside from spelling and puntuation he might have something to say?

And yet tek ignored those of us who made polite and thoughtful responses, and posted some serious questions to him/her. It's clear that tek has nothing to say other than mindless preaching, and that's simply not something that most of us find very stimulating, especially in this particular forum. If tek expects us to listen, then he/she would make a good start by extending the same courtesy to us.

[braces_for_impact]

I didn't think the main point of my post was the grammar and such. My point was that a modicum (did I spell that right?) of syntax and so on would help clear up communications. My education in grammar, spelling, composition and so on has been lacking to say the least. I have made an effort to change that however, so that my message could be read succinctly. What is often read as my final post is usually the result of extensive editing.

I don't see my post as insulting. The content of our two new posters was just as ambiguous to me as the sentence structure. While I agree that those without such education certainly have valid points, how much more likely would that message be received if it was clear and unambiguous?

In any case, the thread has already degenerated. I am willing to listen to either of our two new participants if they are willing to show the same respect, if it stays on topic.

[NottyImp]

While I agree that those without such education certainly have valid points, how much more likely would that message be received if it was clear and unambiguous?

I think a little Medieval history would tell us that literacy is the Devil's work...

[Oolon Colluphid]

Originally posted by RHeanna
He did debunk your theroy you just can't see past the the spelling and punctuation to even see what is there.
Huh?

Well, I've done my best here to clean up the grammatical flaws; I don't think I've altered the sense at all.
I think it’s kinda hypocritical that schools teach evolution -- yet don't teach about God. Evolution is not a fact, it’s a belief. No doctors, scientists etc have any cold, hard facts to show that evolution took place; so they have to have faith to believe it. So in a way, it’s a religion that is being taught in school.

At least God is a more intelligent argument. I mean, the world cannot get up and say, “Well I’m going to make myself today! I’m going to make men... and put eyes on them so they can see... and ears...”

If you look at the world in the right way, you can clearly see that it took a creator: an intelligent being beyond our minds’ abilities to comprehend; all powerful and all knowing.

If you don’t believe in God, that’s like saying that you believe the world is made up of billions and billions of coincidences!

Bottom line: there is a God.
Now, perhaps you can point out whereabouts anything was debunked, please?

TTFN, Oolon