The Eleusinian Mysteries

[cheetah]

Is anyone here familiar with the Eleusinian Mysteries of Greece? I have been doing some reading (on the internet) and also have some personal experience with a facsimile thereof. Here's (http://users.erols.com/nbeach/eleusis.html) a quick link for reference.

I am fascinated on several counts. First, it appears that the fall of the Eleusinian Mysteries occurred primarily because of Christianity. I wonder how they so thoroughly converted everyone. After all, several other religions that existed at the time (Judaism just to name one) was not quashed completely and is still a successful religion. Was there something about polytheism in particular that fell out of favor with humans around that era?

And, what of the comments that many aspects of the Mysteries seem to have counterparts in Christianity. True, almost every religion seems to have some basic similarlities in construction, but given the geographic locality and the conversion of many of the most renowned followers to Christianity, it seems more salient with regard to the Mysteries.

Also, this religion seemed to incorporate a transcendant state, possibly achieved through a wheat-based drink. There is some controversy surrounding that that I think is interesting. Actually, there is controversy around a lot of it, given the high degree of secrecy. How did the religion stay so secret? Are there other examples of such purposeful and stalwart secrecy, to the point where we have lost much of the information. I know, for instance, that we don't know much about Druidism. What time frame was Druidism (comparable to the Mysteries or long before?) and is there evidence that they purposely kept it secret. Given the Greeks ability to record the events (some of the prolific writers: Plato, Plutarch, maybe Sophocles, etc. were members), isn't it a surprise that they really kept it such a secret? And why?

And, having just read the other thread about pseudo-history in Wicca (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78352) I was wondering why Wiccans never turned to the Mysteries for inspiration in their religion. It seems, given its secrecy, that it would make a perfect tradition from which to grow a new religion.

Anyway, I know this is rather esoteric and am just hoping any of you have even heard of the Eleusinian Mysteries. I find it to be interesting for various reasons, not the least that it was such a powerful force (all the major players in Greek societies were initiates) and was essentially quashed by one of, if not the, major religion today.

I'll be interested to hear anything anyone else here has learned/heard.

[gsx1138]

Before I found my coven I was going to hook up with the ATC (Aquariun Tabernacle Church) up here in my neck of the woods. They are pretty much exactly what you just posted and they're one of the largest incorporated Pagan churches in the country.

[muon]

I'm very familiar with the Eleusinian mysteries, and have read most of the relevant literature. I even read the Hymn to Demeter in the original Greek, so I'm hard core. I also visited Eleusis during a vacation to Greece.

The best text I can recommend on the subject is by George Mylonas, and is referenced in the link you provide. Kerenyi wrote an interesting book as well, but is considered somewhat speculative, and is not all that well regarded. Walter Burkert's "Homo Necans" is valuable, however.

First, regarding the wholesale conversion of the ancient Hellenic pagans. Your post underestimates the difficulty of this conversion, and the length of time it took. Pockets of Hellenism were reported to continue well into the ninth century in some isolated pockets of Greece. A number of communities (e.g. Athens, Gaza) resisted Christianity vigorously for centuries. The comparison to Judaism is a bad one. The Christian emperors outlawed and persecuted polytheistic practices, which they saw as a direct affront to God. Not surprisingly, Judaism was not subject to this kind of systematic program of extermination. In short, the Christians so thoroughly converted the pagans at the point of a sword and through the full force of legal sanction. For an interesting read, try "Pagans and Christians", by Robin Lane Fox. Fox argues strongly that there was no intrinsic weakness in paganism that was responsible for its decline.

The Greeks considered it to be a great blasphemy to reveal the secrets of the Mysteries, and prosecuted people who did. The playwright Aeschylus was charged with alluding too closely to the content of the Mysteries in one of his plays, but was acquitted when he proved that he had never been initiated into the Mysteries, and so could only have accidently paralleled their contents. There are some Christian sources that claim to reveal the secrets of the Mysteries, but it's very unclear if these are credible sources. They're certainly biased.

I'm agnostic about the possible psychoactive properties of the kykeon. It's not impossible, but I suspect that no psychoactive drugs were involved. Appeals to psychoactive compounds seem motivated by a modern failure to appreciate how ancients could be emotionally moved by religious experiences very foreign to our own. No need to blame drugs.

Would you care to discuss what went on in the facsimile of the Mysteries that you witnessed? Or would that be blasphemy? :p

[cheetah]

What got you interested in the Eleusinian Mysteries, oser? You are very hard core, to have traveled there and all. I thought I saw a link on the internet once about people who still celebrate the Mysteries, I couldn't tell though, maybe in more of a tongue-in-cheek way. Are you familiar with anything like that?

I may check out some of those books you recommended. I'm particularly interested to see how the Eleusinian Mysteries, which by all accounts were the most prestigious/prominent Mysteries in Greece, fit in with the general polytheism of Greece that we all learned about in grade school. Did the initiates of the Mysteries still believe in/worship all of the deities?

My personal experience was not intended to be THE Eleusinian Mysteries, but was an organization that was modeled off the Mysteries in general (i.e. no kykeon :) among other things). Anyway, it was kind of a folklore and it made me interested in researching the actual Mysteries. And yes, anymore than that would be blasphemous!

I'm glad to know the forced conversions weren't as easy as I had gotten the impression. It reminds me of Christianity forcing the conversions of other pagans and ultimately having to incorporate some of their practices, i.e. the Christmas Tree/Solstice celebration. Have you learned of specific practices that are identified to have been adopted from the Mysteries?

[muon]

Originally posted by cheetah
What got you interested in the Eleusinian Mysteries, oser? You are very hard core, to have traveled there and all. I thought I saw a link on the internet once about people who still celebrate the Mysteries, I couldn't tell though, maybe in more of a tongue-in-cheek way. Are you familiar with anything like that?

I was an ancient history buff in college, and studied Greek. Hellenic paganism is of academic interest to me. I'm sure that there are many groups that "celebrate" the Mysteries, although to be honest all they can do is guess what went on, and play at it. There's probably not any real similarity between the modern recreations and the original. We simply know too little about it.

I may check out some of those books you recommended. I'm particularly interested to see how the Eleusinian Mysteries, which by all accounts were the most prestigious/prominent Mysteries in Greece, fit in with the general polytheism of Greece that we all learned about in grade school. Did the initiates of the Mysteries still believe in/worship all of the deities?

Almost certainly the initiates believed in the full structure of Hellenic paganism, including the other deities. While only a minority of Greeks ever participated in the Mysteries, they were contiguous with the mainstream of Hellenic religious thought. Apparently the Mysteries did not reveal much in the way of new, secret doctrines---rather, the secrets of the Mysteries were something to be experienced, not learned. Supposedly someone might tell you what happened at the Mysteries, but it would not be at all profound or even meaningful outside of its original context.

My personal experience was not intended to be THE Eleusinian Mysteries, but was an organization that was modeled off the Mysteries in general (i.e. no kykeon :) among other things). Anyway, it was kind of a folklore and it made me interested in researching the actual Mysteries. And yes, anymore than that would be blasphemous!

I'm glad to know the forced conversions weren't as easy as I had gotten the impression. It reminds me of Christianity forcing the conversions of other pagans and ultimately having to incorporate some of their practices, i.e. the Christmas Tree/Solstice celebration. Have you learned of specific practices that are identified to have been adopted from the Mysteries?

There are no Christian practices that I know of that were adopted from the Mysteries. There is possibly an analogue between the kykeon and the Christian Eucharist, but it's only an analogue. Remember that the vast majority of ancients had never been to Eleusis, and may have had no clearer idea than we do of what went on there. Eleusis, while prestigious and in that sense threatening to Christianity, probably exerted very little direct influence on Christian doctrine or practice. The Eleusinian cult was highly suppressed by the Christian authorities as soon as they became powerful enough to get away with it.

[angakoq]

Originally posted by oser
I'm agnostic about the possible psychoactive properties of the kykeon. It's not impossible, but I suspect that no psychoactive drugs were involved. Appeals to psychoactive compounds seem motivated by a modern failure to appreciate how ancients could be emotionally moved by religious experiences very foreign to our own. No need to blame drugs.

There are a variety of hallucinogen-based theories on the constituents of the kykeon, and while some are persuasive, I do think it is a matter that we will never know. However, I have to disagree with your reasoning as to why you suspect that no psychoactive chemicals are involved.

There are many examples of 'ancient' cultures using psychoactive plants; I think it incorrect to suggest it is a modern phenomenon.