Demon Haunted World?

[wandererfromtx]

I find it so odd, that some of the more extreme christians tell their kids and themselves over and over again stories, of demons attacking, and then are surprised when their kids or them hear or see things that go bump in the night.

I was reading on of the christian boards, about a woman who believes that she and her family is under attack by demons. I see this in the same vain as if I convince myself that there are green-eyed trolls living in my attic, I will have green-eyed trolls living in my attic. I will see the effects of the green-eyed trolls living in my attic, I will hear the sounds of the green-eyed trolls living in my attic, and I will wake in the middle of the night with nightmares of the green-eyed trolls living in my attic.
Then I will teach my offspring that there are green-eyed trolls living in the attic, and then, they too will have green-eyed trolls living in their attic.

Why the appeal to convince themselves that demons, haunt their world and attack their family? I know that the mind is a powerful medium, that convinced or influenced, can change how we look upon the world we live in

[Heurismus]

Good OP; the only thing I wouldn't want anyone to practice, and I'm not saying you would wandererfromtx, would be the deliberate 'suggestion' that such bogeys exist. Not even for fun. Several cases of people being frightened to death has occured recently. One in my area, where a group of young lads jumped out on a student and she is now dead. H.

[wandererfromtx]

Originally posted by Heurismus
Good OP; the only thing I wouldn't want anyone to practice, and I'm not saying you would wandererfromtx, would be the deliberate 'suggestion' that such bogeys exist. Not even for fun. Several cases of people being frightened to death has occured recently. One in my area, where a group of young lads jumped out on a student and she is now dead. H.

And I do not practice this, I was just using the first person (I) as an example.

Yes, I too have heard of people being freighted to death, by convincing themselves that monsters exist. I wonder if it is just easier to accept that monsters exist, than to reason that it just our senses playing in the mind

[Heurismus]

wandererfromtx, from what I have discerned on these boards; everyone with a few exceptions are adult and responsible. In no way would I accuse you of being irresponsible.
These tales of mythical creatures, can stem from may sources. As we humans have a natural disposition to tell tales, it is easy to forget that with such tales comes the responsibility for the effects that can be induced.
It is easy therefore, within the scope of 'cult' manipulation to demand that such 'creatures', 'myths' and 'religious truths' exist or are real; in order to scare people into a narrowly focussed plane of reasonining. Here in lies one of the techniques of entrapment. Heuri.

PS I do not mean to be a spoil sport as I think fiction is wonderful; however gullible minds can be very easily swayed.

[wandererfromtx]

Originally posted by Heurismus
however gullible minds can be very easily swayed.

I agree.

I think we are of the same thought over this matter, however I believe that I may have given you the impression that I believe, or practiced in bringing fantasy to real life.

[Rymmie1981]

The first church I remember going to was all about how demons were everywhere, and all your problems are caused by demons, and we're gonna cast those demons out of you in the name of Jesus!!

Anyways, it made for some interesting childhood memories. I was about 21 or so before I stopped coming against Satan in the name of Jesus for everything from colds to my car not starting.

BTW, it's kind of fun now to think about all those people screaming and cussing on the floor while a bunch of guys hold them down so that the pastor could pray for them. I think some people got away with living with undiagnosed psychoses just because they went to that church.

[Heurismus]

wandererfromtx
No not at all, we are both made of sterner stuff, and we have both seen the terrible effects of religious mumbo jumbo.
They screw with people's minds and then wonder why there are so many murders, child-killings and paedophillia. Even the Mafia think that God's on their side. So we look on in pity and disgust as crime rates soar; it can be reduced to simply being caught up, or entrapped with the wrong kind of people. And that is the truth of how perverse organised religion is. It creates victims and the burden on the Tax system gets higher and higher as delusional mindstates warp people into hatred and intolerance of their fellow beings. Do the Churches clean up their own mess? I wonder very seriously at this particular aspect of the dark side of human nature, and the 'devillish' control excercised in particular by the Roman Catholic Church and Islamic fundamentalists.

Rymmie1981 has just related a typical example of how it is done. Thanks for that, to you both. Heurismus

[Heurismus]

I would like to continue this discussion by introducing some of the 'diabolical' perversities of believers.
NB; there is one case that I am sure you are aware of under the heading of 21st century witch trials. It should be on this site; however, of the pathology and forensics I will leave that up to you to decide.

http://www.hulford.co.uk/intro.html

Christians and believers out there; when you have read or discussed these cases; I would be very grateful for a response.
Furthermore anyone guilty of such incitements; should be taken to task. Including Mel Gibson if death occurs.

I thank you for your attention in this matter.

[wandererfromtx]

Originally posted by Heurismus
diabolical' perversities of believers.

http://www.hulford.co.uk/intro.html



Incredible, I just read though "False Memory Syndrome and the Inquisition" by Summer C. Woodsong and I this quote jumped out at me.

"I believe that if you constantly fill your head with vile images, it will spit out vile images."

I truly believe (my opinion) that this is the case with those who claim to be demon haunted.

Suggestion is a powerful tool, and used to create a perpetual client or dependent, as in the cases discussed in this article is just flat out disturbing and alarming.

[Heurismus]

It is disturbing wandererfromtx; but to balance this up slightly, there is a famous Italian case where a group of so called 'Satanists' (Roman Catholic professionals) manipulated a simpleton into murdering opponents.

No belief system is free of such perversions. It just so happens that the 'Devil' is a fiction of the early Church, a Catch-22 kind of fallacy. Either way, you are ours!!! Totalitarianism!!! And normal Catholics wonder why their religion is so hated.

I like this site, not because I am a practitioner; but because it is reasonably erudite, and these people seem rational and are practicing their beliefs peacefully.

There are some glaring examples of how ignorant people have been manipulated, and others have been killed in the name of religion for no more serious a charge than they liked cats. If we look deeper, case by case, glaring patterns of deception emerge.
Furthermore; jealousy has often drive people to libel or slander others without good cause. At the root of most cases comes our favourite vice; monetary greed.

Matthew Hopkins is perhaps the best example to teach children that religion plus greed can lead to absolute tyranny. I find the most repulsive aspect of small communities, the inherrant belief that they have the right to know others business and to violently attack or ignore outsiders. George Elliot's Silas Marner was a wonderful novel about this aspect, and how religion is often mixed with local folklore and practice. I am no authority on this aspect, but as it is part of my own area of interest, it is vital to understand the psychological aspects of xenophobia etc.
I'm glad you like the site. Heurismus

[Rymmie1981]

Many individuals talk about how christians are brainwashed, and this is the prime example. When you are constantly told that demons are causing your problems, you will constantly be looking for demons in every problem. Once your brain is conditioned with a "Demon Response", all that is needed is the stimulus associated with problem-solving or fight-or-flight, and you will start praying and binding demons and pleading the blood of Jesus over your house/car/kids/etc.

Demons become your life. You're no longer afraid, you have a demon of fear. You no longer feel natural desires for the opposite sex, you have a demon of lust. And so on. Your car isn't starting because the devil doesn't want you to get to work on time, so you start praying against that demon who's inside your engine. You come against demons when your tire goes flat, when your kids don't obey, when you lose the TV remote. And so on.

Living that way sucks. I was brought up that gay people have a demon of homosexuality. We just need to pray for those poor, demon-possessed men...

Having Chick Tracts around the house until I was 18 probably didn't help much either.

[Heurismus]

Thankyou Rymmie1981, in addition to all the good posts here; what about Gibson putting a face to the Devil. Is this not a direct assault on anyone who is not Catholic? I.e. anyone who doesn't believe his version will become fair game. Jews, Homosexuals, Non- Christians, Muslims, Hindu's, Atheists...ad infinitum. Now will people realise where the real Devil lies. Heurismus.

[Postcard73]

My ex-wife grew up in an extremely fundamental family, and she was told over and over from early childhood that demons were everywhere. This had such an impact on her that she couldn't even watch the movie Ghostbusters because it scared her. This was a woman who graduated summa cum laude in four years with two majors and a minor: she wasn't stupid, just scarred by her upbringing.

[atheist]

Originally posted by Rymmie1981
BTW, it's kind of fun now to think about all those people screaming and cussing on the floor while a bunch of guys hold them down so that the pastor could pray for them. I think some people got away with living with undiagnosed psychoses just because they went to that church.

I find it downright disturbing (http://www.cbc.ca/disclosure/archives/0208_deliverance/story.html) , myself.

[wandererfromtx]

Originally posted by Heurismus
putting a face to the Devil...Now will people realise where the real Devil lies

Right, once a personification of demons, gods, etc has begun in someone’s mind it is easy to compound those fears by projecting normal everyday occurrences on those representations as they now have a real face.

[Heurismus]

wandererfromtx was this not how the NSDAP originally started to gain support? By slowly winding people up. The techniques are there for all to see, if they weren't so blind. It must stop, before it starts to gain any momentum.

One salutory note; as an aside, but one worthy of inclusion: on this day in 1977, approximately a dozen armed Hanafi Muslims invaded three buildings in the American Capital City, and killed one person and took more than 130 hostages.

I do not object to religious leaders coming together in solidarity at the moment, I support it, but they have been extremely naive in allowing such poison to flow, especially in Great Britain. We have been identified as one of the biggest targets, and agent provocateur are only too pleased to stoke up the flames in hell, for their own nefarious purposes. This is a warning to the gullable and ignorant, not to dance to any pipers tune, especially at the moment. Heurismus

[Heurismus]

Originally posted by atheist
I find it downright disturbing (http://www.cbc.ca/disclosure/archives/0208_deliverance/story.html) , myself.

Thanks Atheist; one more example of the dangers of malpractice, asserted in all 'honesty' in the name of God. Malpracticing MD's, once discovered are normally struck off, but the recent case of Shipman in the UK just shows how that air of respectability can provide a veneer under which murderous tendacies can be hidden for years. This is how all paedophiles for example, whether in the Churches or in families, are getting away with it. Heurismus.

[nermal]

Originally posted by wandererfromtx


Why the appeal to convince themselves that demons, haunt their world and attack their family? I know that the mind is a powerful medium, that convinced or influenced, can change how we look upon the world we live in

When you grow up believing that demons are responsible for every seemingly rational attack on your religion, such as warping the minds of biologists, geologists, paleontologists, etc. is isn't much of a leap to believe that demons are pissing around in your personal life--causing your teenagers to misbehave, your husband to drink too much, your priest to diddle your pre-adolescent son [Too far, man, knock it off!] etc.
If demons are responsible for all your ills, you don't have to take responsibility yourself, and do things like look at the bad effects of your fundamentalism on your life.

Ed

[Heurismus]

That is another good point on how conditioning can have a deliterious effect on one's life, long after the event. I am on record as saying I do not suffer nightmares. Absolutely true, why because the frights of childhood were rationally thrown away. Any stresses I now have are merely to do with my current predicaments. I am emotionally deep and feel very strongly about certain people in my life, but to add any religiosity to it all, would tip the balance against me in rational people's minds. Therefore to witness for Jesus on an aeroplane for example is grounds for a major psychiatric review of the pilot in question. I am still waiting to discover ICAO, FAA, CAA and IATA's deliberation on this case. But if I know the pilot of my flight has angels or bogeymen in his head, then I would demand a parachute as well as inflight entertainment.

Nermal's point is extremely pertinent, where I live just recently an Anglican pastor was attacked. We are all at the mercy of nutters; just because Mel Gibson can afford protection, does that give him the right to treat the rest of us as insignificant scum, the hoi poloi upon which his career can be further enhanced? But then the sycophants will all be there, slurping the goodness from such a person's cup. There is a nice proverb about wealth being the fortified city of the rich, but the ruin of the poor. That's in the OT, but of course such a man knows 'the rest', doesn't he?
Heurismus.

[Heurismus]

Ah St. Patrick I knew him well:

From our Fraternally Funny Brothers and Sisters in arms at the Dept. of Faith; Whitehouse.org

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0304/stpatrick.html