Romans 14:11

[Kingdomovehearts]

"For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. "

This is a very confusing verse. Okay, if we all are going to confess to God he is real, and bow down to him. Then what's the point of free will if we are going to admit he is God anyways?

[robtech]

This is reference to where a mortal is in position to God.
1. Either spiritually rejuvenated being "Child of the Kingdom" who is headed for an eternal life of bliss.
2. Or a non-repentant "Enemy of the Cross of Salvation"who will be damned to eternal damnation.
Both of these will have been enlighted about the Truth. #1 before mortal death. #2 after mortal death.

[Mediancat]

This seems more suited for BC&H.

Accordingly --

Rob aka Mediancat

[Grumsh]

Originally posted by Kingdomovehearts
"For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. "

This is a very confusing verse. Okay, if we all are going to confess to God he is real, and bow down to him. Then what's the point of free will if we are going to admit he is God anyways?

And if I admit your hair is orange that is infringment of free will?

As for the Bowing, ever heard of respect?

Grumsh.

[robtech]

What is BCand H?:o

[Magus55]

Originally posted by Kingdomovehearts
"For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. "

This is a very confusing verse. Okay, if we all are going to confess to God he is real, and bow down to him. Then what's the point of free will if we are going to admit he is God anyways? Free will allows you to choose for God or against Him. But everyone will eventually bow before Him. They will no longer be able to deny Him.

[Gawen]

Robtech, BC&H is this forum: Biblical Criticism & History

[robtech]

Thanks;)

[winstonjen]

Originally posted by Magus55
Free will allows you to choose for God or against Him. But everyone will eventually bow before Him. They will no longer be able to deny Him.

We can accept and acknowledge his existence, but we don't have to like him or bow down to him. And if we all did bow down to him, wouldn't he let us into heaven to let us worship him?

[funinspace]

I'm not sure as to what you find confusing about the verse? You should look at the context i.e.:
14:10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
...
14:12 So then each one of us will give account of himself to God.

Like Magnus55 said, within the context of xianity, you will stand before him, either at death or that VERY imminent end of earth thing. You know, that one Paul warned about 2000 years ago.

DK

[Mageth]

Originally posted by Magus55
Free will allows you to choose for God or against Him. But everyone will eventually bow before Him. They will no longer be able to deny Him.

So long to free will, then.

[Mageth]

Originally posted by funinspace
...or that VERY imminent end of earth thing. You know, that one Paul warned about 2000 years ago.

Yeah, whatever happened to that imminent end of earth thing? Like the Energizer Bunny, we just keep going, and going...

[Mageth]

Originally posted by Grumsh
And if I admit your hair is orange that is infringment of free will?

If I'm pointing a gun to you head and saying "Admit that my hair is orange!", yes.

As for the Bowing, ever heard of respect?

As for tossing most of humanity into Hell for an eternity of suffering for finite and questionable "transgressions" against a deity that they did not bow to (actually, did not believe existed for a large part), ever heard of respect?

[Mageth]

Originally posted by robtech
This is reference to where a mortal is in position to God.
1. Either spiritually rejuvenated being "Child of the Kingdom" who is headed for an eternal life of bliss.
2. Or a non-repentant "Enemy of the Cross of Salvation"who will be damned to eternal damnation.
Both of these will have been enlighted about the Truth. #1 before mortal death. #2 after mortal death.

So I'll be eternally damned for not repenting to a God I do not believe exists in this finite life...and odd fellow, your God.

[naltariel]

I was told that this verse means that all people who denied him would see him in all his glory so that they couldnt deny his existence anymore. Furthermore, he would come with all glory we couldnt imagine that we all automatically would bow down in awe of him. When he did revealed himself, it'd be too late for us to repent. So yes, bye bye Free will.

Of course, this explanation doesn't take his morality into consideration if he's worship-worthy or not, just his physical glory.

[funinspace]

naltariel,

I would say you have a reasonably accurate understanding of the verses. Rather nefarious I would say.

Yeah, whatever happened to that imminent end of earth thing? Like the Energizer Bunny, we just keep going, and going...

Duh, it's a solar battery, we go out with the Sun....:D

[naltariel]

Thanks funinspace. I just repeat what's been told to me though. And I did take advance Bible class for a while at the tender age of 14, precocious as I was. Now, I am happily thinking about porn than Bible.

Not that there are many differences between those 2.

[Magdlyn]

Off topic, but, that end of the earth, kingdom of God up next thing? People get confused and make it eschatological. As if the physical earth had to pass away and the Kingdom of God/heaven be ushered in instead. This is indeed, one persepctive offered in the canon, and maybe the easiest to grasp for the masses. But it is not the only way to look at it.

Paul's gnostic viewpoint, Christ in you now, would indicate the Kingdom of God is already here. Some of Jesus' disciples see this, so the kingdom is here, for them at least, before they pass away.

Christ supports this in Luke 17:

20 Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within [among] you."

Gospel of Thomas:

The kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and people do not see it.

When life is perceived pneumatically instead of from a fleshly perspective, the kingdom of god is already here.

This message is terribly confused by later, literalist redactors, unfortunately.