Anasazi roads

[Ojuice5001]

(This probably goes without saying, but I would like you to remember that roads were very expensive to build before inventions like asphalt and trucks.)

The Anasazis of New Mexico have built some roads going from Chaco Canyon, where they have a village, to other locations in the area. I should note that these roads are always perfectly straight, even when it would be more convenient to have them deviate from their path a few feet. Some of these roads go to villages or other significant locations, but the interesting part is that some of them don't. They go dozens of miles out, into the middle of nowhere. I mean, there's usually some landmark at the end of the road, but it's just something less-than-special like a boulder or a stream--not something that a person would walk miles to see. Archaeology gives no clue about why these spots were significant.

The most enigmatic road is fifty miles long, and goes due north from Chaco Canyon to a particular mound of earth. Why? Archaeology, since it is confined by its methodological naturalism, gives no clue.

Now these roads have no obvious purpose. Like many other strange artifacts, they are assumed to have some supernaturalistic purpose. But I ask you, if supernaturalism is false, with non-natural events being nonexistent, why did a society put hundreds of man-hours into building roads to spots where nothing happened? They would be as pointless as the pyramids of Egypt (assuming, as may or may not be the case, that the afterlife was not actually affected by the pharoah's burial). But the pyramids were built by slaves. The Anasazis had few or no slaves--certainly not enough to spare for a road system that had purpose outside of a conjectural belief system. So I think the supernatural events that were expected to happen at these sites were actually happening.

And to show this is a good apologetic for Roman paganism, as well North American paganism, I would like to point out that the North American paganism is very similar to the beliefs held in Italy about 850 BCE. Both believed in spiritual presences that were latent in nature and had fairly little sentience.

[hinduwoman]

How does it follow that because roads has been built to a particular place supernatural events were taking place?
It is entirely possible that this was a sacred site first. The rock or stream is sacred and therefore a pilgrimage spot. Therefore roads were built to mark it. Remember actual temples were not always neccessary. Major hindu shrines like Amarnath, Gongotri etc. were purely natural spots which was thought to be sacred. Roads were built much later to go there, along with actual temples, because they were thought to be sacred, not because some supernatural events were constantly happening.

[freemonkey]

[quote]Originally posted by Ojuice5001:
<strong>
Now these roads have no obvious purpose. Like many other strange artifacts, they are assumed to have some supernaturalistic purpose. But I ask you, if supernaturalism is false, with non-natural events being nonexistent, why did a society put hundreds of man-hours into building roads to spots where nothing happened? They would be as pointless as the pyramids of Egypt (assuming, as may or may not be the case, that the afterlife was not actually affected by the pharoah's burial).

So I think the supernatural events that were expected to happen at these sites were actually happening.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And why raise standing stones in Europe? And why spend lifetimes building cathedrals? IMO, it's a stretch to assert that supernaturalism exists just because humans have invested so heavily in it.

[Amos]

[quote]Originally posted by freemonkey:
<strong>

And why raise standing stones in Europe? And why spend lifetimes building cathedrals? IMO, it's a stretch to assert that supernaturalism exists just because humans have invested so heavily in it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why spend a whole lifetime looking for it if it doesn't exist?

[Godless Dave]

[quote]Originally posted by Amos:
<strong>

Why spend a whole lifetime looking for it if it doesn't exist?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Because people want it to exist.

[Godless Dave]

[quote]Originally posted by Ojuice5001:
<strong>
Now these roads have no obvious purpose. Like many other strange artifacts, they are assumed to have some supernaturalistic purpose. But I ask you, if supernaturalism is false, with non-natural events being nonexistent, why did a society put hundreds of man-hours into building roads to spots where nothing happened? They would be as pointless as the pyramids of Egypt (assuming, as may or may not be the case, that the afterlife was not actually affected by the pharoah's burial). But the pyramids were built by slaves. The Anasazis had few or no slaves--certainly not enough to spare for a road system that had purpose outside of a conjectural belief system. So I think the supernatural events that were expected to happen at these sites were actually happening.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why did medieval craftsmen and laborers work for generations on giant cathedrals while they lived in hovels? Why do people give their life savings to televangelists and get nothing in return? Why do people pay psychics for prophecies that don't come true? Why do people trek hundreds of miles to see an apparition of Mary that isn't there?

Faith can move mountains. If you get a bunch of people to believe a site is sacred, you can get them to build a road to it. Most human beings do not act rationally most of the time.

[ March 29, 2002: Message edited by: Godless Dave ]</p>

[Eudaimonist]

[quote]Originally posted by Amos:
<strong>Why spend a whole lifetime looking for it if it doesn't exist?</strong><hr></blockquote>

The essential theistic thought process is:

I want it to exist, therefore it exists.

[ March 30, 2002: Message edited by: Eudaimonist ]</p>

[Desertphile]

(This probably goes without saying, but I would like you to remember that roads were very expensive to build before inventions like asphalt and trucks.)

The Anasazis of New Mexico have built some roads going from Chaco Canyon, where they have a village, to other locations in the area. I should note that these roads are always perfectly straight, even when it would be more convenient to have them deviate from their path a few feet. Some of these roads go to villages or other significant locations, but the interesting part is that some of them don't. They go dozens of miles out, into the middle of nowhere. I mean, there's usually some landmark at the end of the road, but it's just something less-than-special like a boulder or a stream--not something that a person would walk miles to see. Archaeology gives no clue about why these spots were significant.

The most enigmatic road is fifty miles long, and goes due north from Chaco Canyon to a particular mound of earth. Why? Archaeology, since it is confined by its methodological naturalism, gives no clue.

Now these roads have no obvious purpose.


It's real hard to know if someone is "trolling" (pretending to be ignorant) or really is ignorant to such a huge extent as above. I will assume the writer of above is not trolling, and is actually asking a question.

THE ANSWER IS OBVIOUS! It seems rather odd that someone would claim "archeology gives no clue" about why the Anasazis built roads "to nowhere," when in fact archeologists *DO* know why.

Roads go both ways. When someone claims that a Anasazi road goes from a Great City or from a Great Kiva, to a "mound of dirt," that someone seems to have missed the obvious fact that the road also goes from the mound of dirt to the City or Kiva! That is exactly why the Anasazi built the roads--- they lead *TO* the Great Cities and Great Kivas. The roads acted as "social integration" paths leading to the social centers of the area.

Most Anasazi did not live in Great Cities nor at Great Kivas: they lived well-scattered across the "four corners"area and well into Mexico, parts of Utah, and parts of Nevada. They used landmarks to find the general area of Cities and Kivas, but needed a detailed guide to the actual destination.

Studies of Anasazi roads show that many were not built to ease travel from place to place (city to city): the roads do not follow the logical, easiest routes over the ground. Rather, the roads are built so that a person can look at a mountain peak, walk towards it, and come across an Anasazi road; the walker then turned away from the peak, walked down the road in the other direction, towards the Great City or Great Kiva. Thus the roads acted as a kind of full-size map, leaving people to their destinations. Chaco Canyon has extensive guide roads leading to the Great City--- the roads lead *TO* the city, not away from it.

This has been known for nearly 20 years. I cannot understand why someone would claim no one knows why these roads were built--- an absurd statement.

[Ojuice5001]

Well, I did read it in an old book. Quite possibly more than 20 years old. I thought this was interesting at the time. "At the time" being more than two years ago.

[Heathen Dawn]

I thought this was interesting at the time. "At the time" being more than two years ago.

And it isn’t the pagan here who has been practicing necromancy. :down:

(edit: just realise he/she (Desertphile) is. Doesn’t make it any more acceptable, though)

[Symptom]

March 28, 2002, 03:29 PM

:eek: this thread's almost old enough to be an archaeological site itself.

[Heathen Dawn]

:eek: this thread's almost old enough to be an archaeological site itself.

Yup yup. A year in computing and Internet is a millennium in regular history and 10 million years in geology.

[4th Generation Atheist]

Since it's a resurrected thread anyway, may I interrupt it to ask an unrelated question?

What is "<strong>"?

[Ojuice5001]

It's a by-product of the transition from UBB. When you quote someone in UBB, it puts it in "quote" tags, and bolds it. For reasons I don't know, the transition from UBB to vBulletin changed them into the "<strong>" you see today.