Matthew 11:19: Does this say Jesus is a drunk?

[Zucco]

Matthew 11:19
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.


Does this verse imply that Jesus drank too much wine or am I misunderstanding the "Son of Man" reference? I find it hard to believe that god incarnate needed a little nip here and there to get through the day.

[funinspace]

It would if you presumed that the people insulting Jesus were being honest and clear. I think a fair understanding of the verse is that the people were being derogatory. You don't even have to be a believer to get to that conclusion. But I would also say that the verse makes it pretty obvious, when considered with the whole NT, that Jesus drank alcohol...Don't tell the Baptists :D

DK

[blt to go]

that Jesus drank alcohol...Don't tell the Baptists

Sad but true...when I was a young "baptist" we were informed that the wine of the N.T. was 1/20 the alcohol content of current wine.

Even as a kid, we saw that did not make sense. There are accusations, and clear references to being "drunk." You would have to have the bladder the size of a small sheep to drink that low of a content of alcohol and get drunk.

This would be less alcohol than Nyquil:)

[Magus55]

Originally posted by funinspace
It would if you presumed that the people insulting Jesus were being honest and clear. I think a fair understanding of the verse is that the people were being derogatory. You don't even have to be a believer to get to that conclusion. But I would also say that the verse makes it pretty obvious, when considered with the whole NT, that Jesus drank alcohol...Don't tell the Baptists :D

DK Yes I imagine Jesus did drink alcohol considering wine was served at passover. Drinking isn't a sin, over indulgence is.

[funinspace]

Drinking isn't a sin, over indulgence is.

Yep, couldn't agree more. Though I will always remember how proud several members of my former local Bible/fundy Church was that they didn't touch that wicked stuff. And how many will twist the obvious to suite their puritanical preferences. And is just amazing (almost entertaining) to watch a preacher dance over a verse that doesn't fit with their "faith statement".

DK

[Doctor X]

I remember one trying to argue that "they did not have wine back then, they had grape juice."

Sometimes, you just have to laugh.

--J.D.

[Yannis (J'ohn)]

Originally posted by Doctor X
I remember one trying to argue that "they did not have wine back then, they had grape juice."

Aha! So, in the marriage of Cana, Jesus turned water into Ribbena!

Who said that apologetics don't make sense?

SBS :p

[Hazel-rah]

Originally posted by Magus55
Yes I imagine Jesus did drink alcohol considering wine was served at passover. Drinking isn't a sin, over indulgence is.
1. It was just Manischiewicz. Awful stuff.
2. "If there ain't COLD BEER in heaven..."

[DaMan121]

Aha! So, in the marriage of Cana, Jesus turned water into Ribbena!


:D LOL! Ribbena rocks!

[Doctor X]

Indeed, later apologists excised the passages that proved the crowds turned against them and demanded his execution when they found out he turned their water into Snapple. . . .

--J.D.

[Doctor X]

Or . . . perhaps the truth is closer to the truth (ftp://ftp.quahog5news.com/pub/forbidden/jobe.mpg) than we thought. . . .

--J.D.

[Postcard73]

Please remember that this is BC&H. Try to keep the posts on-topic.

Scott (Postcard73)
BC&H Moderator

[Doctor X]

I merely encourage posters, all posters, to read the posts.

They may discover the context if they do that.

--J.D.

[Toto]

Things seem on topic. I think Scott meant to ask people to keep the level of discourse at a higher intellectual level befitting an upper forum.

Going back to the opening post, since I don't think the Jesus character of the gospels really existed, I don't think he was a drunk or a glutton. If you read that passage in context, it says

16"To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others:
17" 'We played the flute for you,
and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge
and you did not mourn.'
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."

It seems more of a comment on "this generation" and how they can't get anything right. (I'm sure there is some more scholarly commentary on that passage somewhere.)

[Doctor X]

["Poof!"--Ed.]

[Revelation_Man]

Originally posted by Zucco
Matthew 11:19
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.


Does this verse imply that Jesus drank too much wine or am I misunderstanding the "Son of Man" reference? I find it hard to believe that god incarnate needed a little nip here and there to get through the day.

No, Jesus didn't drink to much, but the idea that he drank at all made the people skeptical of his teachings.

This passage is meant to show the hypocrisy within the temple at the time about the people's views on drinking. When really it shouldn't matter whether Jesus drank or not, "wisdom is justified of her children" is a proverb that essentially means, don't judge one by his actions, but by what those actions produce. The ends sometimes do justify the means.

And I don't find it hard to believe that the god incarnate would want a little nip here and there. I mean, he doesn't need to drink. He can quit anytime he wants. But come on, if you were a deity who'd watch these humans having all this fun, wouldn't you do as much as possible to not only fit in, but also enjoy the ride?

[MadMez]

So the belief in a supreme being sending itself down to it's creation to indulge a little in its creation's imbibing by allowing itself the briefest co-weakness with it's creation to demonstrate it's creation's hypocrisy, isn't hypocrisy?

I see.

[Revelation_Man]

Who said drinking was a weakness?:rolleyes: