UU meeting for atheists

[Gooch's dad]

I think this is the right forum for this.

The local First Unitarian Society (http://www.fusmadison.org/) has a regular meeting for atheists and agnostics. It started this winter with a 5 week class titled "The spiritual benefits of orthodox atheism". The title of the class was only partly tongue-in-cheek, from what I gather.

A friend at work attends the First Unitarian Society, and his wife was in the class. I wanted to attend, but missed the first class. The class was so popular, the class leader decided to continue with monthly meetings on Monday evenings. I attended the first of these "post class" meetings on Monday night. Wow! At least 30 fellow freethinkers with me in the same room!

The average had was probably over 60. Some of the oldest who attended said that Madison's UU church had been largely atheistic or agnostic, 30 and 40 years ago, but has drifted towards theism lately. Some mentioned the Sauk City UU society (about 30 miles west of Madison) where the UU church dates back to German freethinkers of 100 years ago.

I have only gone to one UU "sermon", last month, and it turned out to be a fundraising service (very boring). Knowing that there are so many atheists and agnostics makes me much more interested in attending the UU services regularly.

More about the Monday meeting--church/state separation issues were a hot topic, of course. I mentioned that I'd been at the GAMOW 18 months ago, and that was discussed a bit. The Godless American's PAC was especially interesting to many people. I really tried to point out the huge difference between the fundamentalists and the liberal Christians in America. A great many of the latter are strongly in favor of church/state separation. I do feel that liberal Christians don't feel that fundamentalists are as much of a threat.

Unfortunately, an inordinate amount of time in these meetings has apparently been spent on the simple issue "what do we call ourselves?". Some in the group don't like the label "atheist", for two reasons--either they don't like any label at all, or they think that "atheist" is too negative a label.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation was discussed a bit too, and someone in the group is going to talk to Dan Barker and try to get him to come address the group for one meeting.

Oh, and the group is putting up money to "buy a sermon" on the topic of atheism. Apparently it has been a long time since there has been a sermon specifically addressing this topic. The primary minister is apparently a non-theistic Buddhist.

Overall, I'm quite pleased with this group. I've tried to be a host for Madison atheist meetups in the past, and I've just given up. People sign up to attend, and simply don't show up. It's nice having a group of 30 or so atheists/agnostics to chat with in real life.

I know that some others at IIDB attend UU churches. Do any other Unitarian churches have atheist meetings? If not, you could probably get one organized. You might be surprised how many other atheists there are in those congregations.

Cheers,

Kelly

[Roland98]

Sounds great, Kelly! I have occasionally attended my local UU church, but found fairly few atheists there. Although I do think the associate pastor may be godless, based on the talks I've seen him deliver. Good for you that you have a regular group to meet with.

[ksagnostic]

Hey, Gooch's Dad, you might be interested in this link if you don't know about it already.

http://www.americanhumanist.org/hsfamily/huumanist.html

This is an organization of primarily Unitarian-Universalists who consider themselves humanists (hence the term "HUUmanists"). I attend our local UU church (indeed, I sit on the Board of Trustees). Most of the congregation (particularly the older members) are quite non-theistic. Some call ourselves atheists, more (myself included) call ourselves agnostic, and a lot of us are really coming to like the term "apatheist". Even most UU's with theistic leanings, in my experience, do not hold their belief in god(s) or "something" as that important. It is more important to them to share certain principles and values in common with one another, than to have shared metaphysical philosophies or beliefs.

[xxthe_leewitxx]

Wow, that's an awesome idea, and one I'm going to bring to my congregation's attention. The adult discussion group regulars seem to be mostly very freethinking, and I know for a fact that I'm not the only atheist around there. Just one more reason for me to really think that UUism is a good thing, and the best ally that atheism has in the religious community.

Oh, and if you happened to catch the canvass (a*k*a 'we need money') sermon, you really ought to go give it another try. At my church, at least, the monthly bulletin lists upcoming sermon topics, so you might be able to pick one that sounds more interesting to you. I know it sucks to listen to why they need money, but honestly... I like hearing about it once a year a hell of a lot better than ALL THE TIME. :)

[ksagnostic]

Wow, that's an awesome idea, and one I'm going to bring to my congregation's attention. The adult discussion group regulars seem to be mostly very freethinking, and I know for a fact that I'm not the only atheist around there. Just one more reason for me to really think that UUism is a good thing, and the best ally that atheism has in the religious community.

Oh, and if you happened to catch the canvass (a*k*a 'we need money') sermon, you really ought to go give it another try. At my church, at least, the monthly bulletin lists upcoming sermon topics, so you might be able to pick one that sounds more interesting to you. I know it sucks to listen to why they need money, but honestly... I like hearing about it once a year a hell of a lot better than ALL THE TIME. :)

And the fact is, to keep the programs going, money is indeed needed. Our minister (herself a non-theist, I believe) is starting a Bible Study for Skeptics group, and if I had more time, I would definitely think about participating. Maybe next time.

[Seeker630]

"I know that some others at IIDB attend UU churches. Do any other Unitarian churches have atheist meetings? If not, you could probably get one organized. You might be surprised how many other atheists there are in those congregations. "

Cheers,

Kelly[/QUOTE]

I am an active member of the UUA congregation here in Venice, Fl. I am an atheist, and am openly accepted. In fact, last September I was asked to give a "sermon" on the subject. It was titled "Definitions: an Atheist Primer". It went over big-time. They are a varied group--some very liberal Christians, a lot of what I would call Deists, a couple of Buddhists, a woman author who is an expert on biblical scholarship and pagan religions, some from Jewish backrounds and a lot of atheists and agnostics. I have been told that about 35-40% of the congregation is atheist or agnostic. From what I've seen I'll say that's a pretty accurate number. It's also an older group, as this is a big retirement area.

But to answer your other question--we haven't had any meetings just for atheists and agnostics.

[capsaicin67]

My experience with UUism matches up with the other comments pretty well.

I would say that there is a significant underground of old guard Humanists that gravitated to UUism. The same group that came from Humanism's earlier history but that did little to grow it into anything for future generations[for a number of reasons]. Surprisingly they tend to be somewhat generationally conservative in spite of their metaphysical inclinations.

I would further say that UUism caters to young couples wanting a religion and/or community and values-based setting for their children. They tend to be new-agey or liberal xians by and large, maybe some "Deistic" tendencies, or agnosticism and weak atheists represented. The rest of the congregation tends toward hardcore liberals and progressives, gay couples, Pagans etc.

Young people and college outreach have been woefully neglected unless there has been a revival of late. Not just for freethought, but by UUism for itself----as a whole. They tend to not be overly pushy in public and shun the spotlight and even pro-active visibility of the most utiliatarian sort. To their own discredit and loss, IMHO.

UU congregations seem fairly comfortable with openly atheistic leanings etc. There is usually a singificant contingent of sympathetic types. They also have a rich, authentically American, heritage that grounds it as a cool gig historically---not a Johnny-come-lately cult or fad. It has some historical legs to it. Though it has done little to advance the organization through the 20th century.

OTOH, the problem is that like most organizations, it's political, and there are cliques and opinion leaders and power plays and progress-blockers. Not always, but don't be surprised if you run into it even if you have a fairly good idea fora change.

Another issue is the encroachment of xianity and other superstitious interests [including Pagans] and increasing discomfort between liberal xians and Humanists. Discussions, activities, and sermons run the gamut and sometimes, regardless of good intentions, one group feels alienated by the other. Suffice it to say it is hard to reconcile superstition with non-superstition as they are kinda mutually exclusive regardless of political correctness. This conflict can be fairly awkward and tense, but not all of the time.

If you get comfy they will shortly start to buttonhole you for tasks and money, which should be expected. SO you end up having to decide if your needs are truly being met adequately enough to justify the "energy-out" end of things. But they do this much, much less than mainstream religions and more gracefully. For me it was ultimately too short on fun, age-group peers, and ultimately overt validation of "humanism" as a focus. If I couldn't meet anyone that wanted to hang outside of the Church, and discussion of metaphysics was a political minefield, and I hate sermons, and they wouldn't have hardly any FUN activities/hiking etc---well, I just didn't think it was worth the cost at that point. And they suck at outreach and kinda pride themselves on being a bit detached.

But there were also some very interesting people. And people that were quite active and generous in the community. It was a real mixed bag.

Overall, I would seriously consider another UU congregation if I were to move or get kids [I would supplement their so-open-minded-and-tolerant-they-can't-call-a-load-of-metaphysical-shit-for-what-it-is education with some realworld at-home innoculation, too] or find one that had some cool things brewing *already*. But if I had access to a true, forward-looking freethought community that was focused on same, I'd go with that. But that has been even more sorely neglected until very recently.

[EverLastingGodStopper]

Although I don't attend UU "Services," my Philly/South Jersey Chapter of Americans United for Separation of Church and State has meetings at the Cherry Hill NJ UU Church. I know atheists online who attend their local UU churches so as to have a sense of community.

The UU church is heavily involved with the April 25 March for Women's Lives. Many UU congregations have their own buses going to the March and they are holding their own events in DC.

I've also heard of the HUUmanists... this is a very interesting thread.

-Janice