How Good Are Those Young-Earth Arguments? by Dave Matson

[Who am I to say?]

If all life evolved over millions of years, and religion is nothing but nonsense, then why do you spend so much of your time defending evolution against creationalist nonsense? People of conviction do not entertain nonsense. What inside of you feels so compelled to dispel any notion contrary to "scientific fact"? Since we're all going to die no matter what we believe, why do people who believe in creation pose any threat to evolutionists? If eveolutionists are right, then creationists are no threat.

For that matter, why do Christians pose any threat to Atheists? If you don't believe in God, or that there is any kind of life after death, then what are you defending? As I said: We're all going to die. If death is the end, then what difference does it make if someone believes otherwise? When they're dead, you won't be able to go up to them and say "I told you so!". If Atheism is threatened by Christianity, what is the threat if there is no God? Christians are against Atheist beliefs because they believe that Atheists will suffer eternally in Hell. Christians promote and defend their beliefs in the interest of saving souls. What is the motivation behind defending and promoting Atheism? What is lost if someone believes differently? Nothing.

Under Christian beliefs, Satan is the deciever of many, and the enemy of God. If God and Jesus are myths, along with Satan, then why does the mention of Jesus ignite such feelings of anger and antagonism in non-believers? A Christian might tell you that this is because there is a God, and Jesus was his son, and Satan doesn't want you to believe this because he is God's enemy. An Atheist might say that it's because they're only concerned with reality. If death and nothingness are the ultimate reality for everyone, then why are Christian beliefs of any consequence to an Atheist? You need to ask yourself why the name "Jesus Christ: The Son of God" threatens you. If secular society is so threatened by religion, to the point where "Secular Web" banns the mention of religion, then I would say that Secular Web is just as narrow-minded as Christians are made out to be. Free thought, belief and speech is the right of Christians, Atheists, Evolutionists, Creationists, and everyone else in America. Not even God would deny anyone of that right.

[-DM-]

Normally, I would notify the author of the article in question, in this case How Good Are Those Young-Earth Arguments? (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/young-earth/index.shtml) by Dave Matson (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/index.shtml), of feedback to his article. Your "feedback," however, goes well beyond the scope of Matson's article, using Matson's article merely as a jumping off point to ask many questions that have been asked, and answered, over and over again. Thus, I do not plan to notify matson. But please read the About Us (http://www.infidels.org/infidels/index.shtml) and FAQ (http://www.infidels.org/infidels/faq.shtml) pages and at least some of your questions will be answered.

If all life evolved over millions of years, and religion is nothing but nonsense, then why do you spend so much of your time defending evolution against creationalist nonsense? ... What inside of you feels so compelled to dispel any notion contrary to "scientific fact"?(I think you coined a word. I'm assuming that by "creationalist" you mean "creationist.")

Debunking nonsense is essential for the welfare of humankind. Humans need to accept that humans will have to solve human problems rather than expecting help from god(s). To have a correct understanding of nature and the way things work is essential for the welfare of humankind, our planet, and the entire universe.

People of conviction do not entertain nonsense.If that were true, then religious belief systems, including Christianity, would have died a long time ago inasmuch as religious belief systems are held by "people of conviction" and yet much of what has been believed by religious people of conviction has been proved to be nonsense. Another way of looking at it: Christians hold that much of what is believed by Muslims is nonsense; Muslims believe that much of what is believed by Christians is nonsense. Both Muslims and Christians are "people of conviction." One or the other--or both--are mistaken.

Since we're all going to die no matter what we believe, why do people who believe in creation pose any threat to evolutionists? If eveolutionists [sic] are right, then creationists are no threat.The fact that we are all going to die bears no relationship to the question or to the answer. Worse (for the sake of your logic), that a false belief would necessarily be no threat is an obvious non sequitur--it just doesn't follow. Creationists consider evolution to be false, yet they obviously feel threatened by the efforts of evolutionists; evolutionists consider creationism false, yet they obviously feel threatened by the efforts of evolutionists. To answer your question, however, evolutionists (some of whom are Christians themselves) feel strongly that science should not be replaced in the classroom with quasi-scientific theories based on religious beliefs. (The so-called Dark Ages, when Christianity reigned supreme, comes to mind.)

Why do Christians pose any threat to Atheists?Christianity is a proselytizing religion which, if it could, would take over the world spreading its nonsensical religious beliefs, beliefs which are often detrimental to humankind. (Overpopulation and the need to control world population come to mind. This problem needs to be addressed, and soon, but the Pope, for example, seems oblivious to the problem.)

If you don't believe in God, or that there is any kind of life after death, then what are you defending? What is the motivation behind defending and promoting Atheism? ... If death and nothingness are the ultimate reality for everyone, then why are Christian beliefs of any consequence to an Atheist?Truth, fact, and reality are important. To have a correct understanding of nature and the way things work is essential for the welfare of humankind, our planet, and the entire universe.

Christians are against Atheist beliefs because they believe that Atheists will suffer eternally in Hell. Christians promote and defend their beliefs in the interest of saving souls.Which is, of course, the reason that Christians engaged in Inquisitions, Crusades, and witch-burning. Now, of course, they have shed at least some of their nonsensical beliefs and they pretty much limit themselves to proselytizing. Muslims, of course, promote their beliefs for some of the same reasons as do Christians; Muslims believe that Christians will go to hell, unsaved. Muslims also believe that world peace can only be attained when Islam is universal--and some of the more fanatical Muslims have taken it upon themselves to prove it, it seems. Of course, there are also the Christian abortion-doctor killers.

Fervently held religious beliefs are too-often "unhealthy" for those who disagree.

What is lost if someone believes differently? Nothing.Plenty is lost when large numbers of people hang on to nonsensical religious beliefs. Theocracies such as Iran serve as a potent example.

Under Christian beliefs, Satan is the deciever [sic] of many, and the enemy of God. If God and Jesus are myths, along with Satan, then why does the mention of Jesus ignite such feelings of anger and antagonism in non-believers?Generally speaking, the mention of Jesus ignites no feelings of anger and antagonism in nonbelievers (note the spelling). That Christians repeatedly make this false assertion serves as another example of the unreality of Christian belief.

A Christian might tell you that this is because there is a God, and Jesus was his son, and Satan doesn't want you to believe this because he is God's enemy.Yes, he might. And Muslim's would tell you that Jesus was not God's son. Nontheists might tell you that a perfect and omnipotent god could not possibly create a being with the potential to become a Satan.

You need to ask yourself why the name "Jesus Christ: The Son of God" threatens you.We have. And we have answered the question.

Put the shoe on the other foot. Ask yourself why it is that atheism threatens Christians.

If secular society is so threatened by religion, to the point where "Secular Web" banns [sic] the mention of religion, then I would say that Secular Web is just as narrow-minded as Christians are made out to be.The Secular Web does not ban the mention of religion, as even a cursory investigation would have revealed.

Free thought, belief and speech is the right of Christians, Atheists, Evolutionists, Creationists, and everyone else in America.Yes, that is true. That would not be true were this an Islamic theocracy. That would not likely be true were it a Christian theocracy. (Consider the history of the Catholic Church when it was at the ascendancy of its power.)

Not even God would deny anyone of that right."God" has--in many places and times throughout history--done exactly that if you believe what is written about "him" in the various so-called holy books, including the Bible. A few biblical examples:

DT 13:2-5 Anyone who causes someone to turn to another god must be put to death.

DT 13:6-10 A man is required to slay his friends and members of his own family who are guilty of worshipping another god.

DT 18:20 The prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name which I did not command him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.

2KI 2:23-24 Forty-two children are mauled and killed, presumably according to the will of God, for having jeered at a man of God.

1TI 6:20, 2TI 2:14-16, 3:1-7 Do not argue with an unbeliever.

2JN 1:10-11 Anyone who even greets an unbeliever shares his wicked work.

-DM-