Boston College professor equating Nazis with secular humanism

[crazyfingers]

In the Boston Globe today there is a letter to the editor from a Boston College Theology professor.

Christian right hasn't killed anyone (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/letters/articles/2004/05/25/christian_right_hasnt_killed_anyone/)

DANIEL A. BROWN'S letter "Teaching reading in schools, not prayer" (May 13) conveniently overlooks two significant facts: First, the "secular humanism" of anti-religion Nazis and of atheistic Soviet and Chinese Communists and that of their proxies resulted in the torture and murder of millions in their quest for a new humanity.

...

HARVEY D. EGAN Professor of theology Boston College

Does anyone else find his attempt to link Nazis with secular humanists both offensive and wrong?

Looking up the faculty at Boston College, I've found his website (http://www.bc.edu/schools/cas/theology/faculty/hegan/) which includes an email address.

[Plognark]

Does anyone else find his attempt to link Nazis with secular humanists both offensive and wrong?

Fucking right I do :mad:

Ignorant deuchebag. I'm sick of hearing this stupid link from people with their heads shoved up jesus' ass.

[Eudaimonist]

Does anyone else find his attempt to link Nazis with secular humanists both offensive and wrong?

Are you suggesting that his attempt to link Soviet and Chinese Communists with secular humanists is unoffensive and correct? lol

[Stephen_BostonMA]

The term Nazi nowadays has become so overused, that the meaning has changed. It seems that people on either side of the political spectrum use it to portray their opponents as extremists. :rolleyes:

I would expect more from a professor at a reputable college. Then again, maybe not.

Parents - this is where your tuition payments are going.

[crazyfingers]

Are you suggesting that his attempt to link Soviet and Chinese Communists with secular humanists is unoffensive and correct? lol

No

[crazyfingers]

I sent an email to professor Egan and to the department chairman suggesting that a sincere appology to all secular humanists would be the correct course of action.

[Demosthenes]

I found the link to Daniela's letter that the professor's letter referred to but it requires a pay registration. Does anybody here have the ability to access that article?

I'm now off to write an email to the professor.

[crazyfingers]

I found the link to Daniela's letter that the professor's letter referred to but it requires a pay registration. Does anybody here have the ability to access that article?

No. They don't give free access to home delivery subscribers unfortunately.

The abstract from a search (http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=BG&p_theme=bg&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&s_dispstring=DANIEL%20A.%20BROWN%20AND%20date(last%2012%20months)&p_field_date-0=YMD_date&p_params_date-0=date:B,E&p_text_date-0=-12qzM&p_field_advanced-0=&p_text_advanced-0=("DANIEL%20A.%20BROWN")&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no) gets:

TEACH READING IN SCHOOLS, NOT PRAYER
Published on May 13, 2004


AS SOMEONE WHO TAUGHT IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM FOR 10 YEARS, I FIND JEFF JACOBY'S REMARKS ABOUT NONPAROCHIAL TEACHERS TO BE NOT ONLY INSULTING BUT HIGHLY INACCURATE (``MAKING THE CASE FOR PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS,'' OP ED, MAY 9).
Why don't we pray in school? Because we're too busy teaching reading, writing, math, history, science, and countless other necessary skills in an uphill battle with a culture that seems to value ignorance and distrust intelligence. But we do.. and it cuts off.

I read the letter when it came out and do not recall anything particulary inflamatory.


This is the column that started it all.

Making the case for parochial schools (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/05/09/making_the_case_for_parochial_schools/)

[Demosthenes]

ok, I read the article and wrote a long email.

The professor's letter irritated me on many levels, in the first paragraph alone he managed to commit a non sequitur and an appeal to emotions.

Then he goes on to chide the humanists for the actions of Nazi, Soviets, and Communist Chinese which by the way have nothing to do with secular humanism in the first place while in the same breath he says that Christanity shouldn't be blamed for the actions of people contrary to the Christian principles?

Sheesh talk about double standards and he manages to mistake secular humanism for something entirely.

[crazyfingers]

ok, I read the article and wrote a long email.

The professor's letter irritated me on many levels, in the first paragraph alone he managed to commit a non sequitur and an appeal to emotions.

Then he goes on to chide the humanists for the actions of Nazi, Soviets, and Communist Chinese which by the way have nothing to do with secular humanism in the first place while in the same breath he says that Christanity shouldn't be blamed for the actions of people contrary to the Christian principles?

Sheesh talk about double standards and he manages to mistake secular humanism for something entirely.


I'll bet your email was more suited for publication than mine. How about sending it to the Globe?

Letters to the editor (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/letters/)

To submit a letter to the editor, e-mail letter@globe.com

Please include your full name, address, and a telephone number for confirmation purposes. Letters should be 200 words or less and are subject to condensation.

[Demosthenes]

here's the email I wrote if you'd like to read it.


Hello Professor Egan,

It was with interest when I read your letter "Christian right hasn't killed anyone" in today's Boston Globe in response to Daniela Brown's letter.

There were several things in your letter that I objected to. First, you say that the "secular humanism" of the Nazi and the Soviets if that could be called such is responsible for the death of millions of people. Granted those regimes caused some of the greatest tradegies of the 20th century but to claim that the ideologies of Nazi, the Soviets, and the Communist Chinse is somehow included in the secular humanism umbrella is nonsensical. Hitler most definitely wasn't a humanist or even an atheist as it's known that he had more than passing interests in the supernatural, astrology, and Christian topics. Nevertheless I doubt that him being a Christian had any bearing on his actions but rather his pathological hatred of the Jewish people and his megalomania that were responsible. Secular humanism as we know it was most definitely not part of Nazi's machination and doesn't even have any hand in the Holocaust and other deaths.

The Soviets and the Chinese on the other hand developed a form of government and control that is difficult to reconcile with the principle of secular humanism. Collective government, low regard for many of human freedoms and rights that humanism holds dear. I could go on but since the email's already longer than I intended it to be, I'll cut to it, the Soviets and the Communist Chinese have very little in common with secular humanism. To call them representative of secular humanism philosophy is to do it injustice.

In the second part of your letter you note that it's not fair to place blame on Christanity for the actions of a few that is contrary to the Christian principles as you've outlined in your letter. Yet haven't you done what amounts to the same thing that you've denounced in the letter? You've implied that the secular humanism is to be blamed for the actions of some of the worst regimes ever to grace Earth notwithstanding that those regimes aren't even adherents of the secular humanism philosophy in the first place.

In all, I don't see how the so called "secular humanism" actions of the Nazi, the Soviets, and the Communist Chinese necessarily follow from Daniela's assertion in her letter. At first glance it's a non sequitur and it's at best a distraction from the discussion at hand. It seems that you don't have a full understanding what secular humanism's really about. It's not fair to the humanists if you appeal to the emotion by throwing in the subject of the brutal regimes nor would it be also fair to the Christians if humanists had brought out the Crusades, the Inquisitions, the enslaving and killing of Native Americans, and other atrocities that have been done in the name of God.

Thank you for taking the time to read through my email.

[Drew J]

Does anyone else find his attempt to link Nazis with secular humanists both offensive and wrong?
Atheists are nazis and communists? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! What a moron!
Hitler's personal writings reveal that he was a Christian who had totalitarian leanings. What's next, he's gonna say that Frederich Nietzsche, atheist, is responsible for nazism? I doubt he'd be successful because as far as I know, Nietzsche hated German culture and broke with Wagner who was anti-semitic.
Though Nietzsche hated Christianity, it was because he viewed it as a philosophy of suffering and that to advocate that suffering is a virtue is to harm mankind. Good gosh. An atheist condemning suffering? How horrible. Nietzsche envisioned a superman who would be strong and virtuous; as far as I know, his sister who he hated twisted his writings to make them seem like they would gel with certain German authoritarian, racist attitudes. This professor should also consider that atheists fought in the world war and that there are about 20 million atheists in America who are quite happy with having a republic (or what's left of it). Ayn Rand, was an atheist yet she came from Communist Russia and praised the capitalist spirit of America. To smear atheists with a nazi tag is not only foolish but downright nasty.

[Demosthenes]

I edited and condensed my original email to the professor for Boston Globe to avoid the newspaper editing my letter too much. Hopefully they'll publish it.

[GermanHeretic]

Nazi Germany was NOT a secular society.

In fact it made a treaty with the Roman church, which is still in place today. You actually pay taxes to the church, collected by the state. As far as I know only Germany and Austria have church taxes, not even the Vatican.

Hitler often enough stated, he was a christian.

And there was prayer in schools.

Some parts of the SS worshipped the old German pantheon, not a secular behaviour either.

And most people worshipped the Führer with quasi-religious zeal, not secular either if you ask me.

Last but not least the Wehrmacht soldiers had "Gott mit uns" - "God with us" on their buckles.

As for all extreme political ideologies - the line to religion is slim. They need faith in their doctrines, unquestioning (uneducated helps here) followers and brutal force to keep the masses in line too.

Oh, just if someone didn't notice, yeah that statement pisses me off too.

[Malachi151]

I am e-mail my article on fascism to him:

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/understanding_fascism.htm

and will be asking for a responce.

In addition I think this applies:

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/special/famine.htm

Interestingly, his bio reads:

RESEARCH INTERESTS
Karl Rahner as Mystical Theologian; Christian Mystics

I can't think of any better description of the Nazis than "Christian Mystics".

[Stacey Melissa]

On the plus side, at least he didn't call secular humanism a religion, and he does teach a class called "Christian Mysticism."

[Malachi151]

My letter to him, which will probably not be read :p

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/letters/articles/2004/05/25/christian_right_hasnt_killed_anyone/

What kind of nonsense are you teaching and distributing in the presses?

I will certainly be taking this issue up with Boston College, it is not fit for teachers to teach things that are blatant lies.

The Nazis were most definitely not "secular humanists", in fact they were a deeply religious cult, that had a large base in Christianity, which is provable beyond any question.

Here is my paper on fascism and anti-Semitism:

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/understanding_fascism.htm

To quote the National Socialist statement of principles for their education program in 1937:

Life comes from God and returns to God. All life and all races follow God's ordinances. No people and no race can ignore them. We want the German youth to again recognize the religious nature of life. They must realize that God wants the individual as well as the whole people, and that they lose contact with life when they lose contact with God! God and nation are the two foundations of the life of the individual and the community. We want no shallow and superficial piety, rather a deep faith that God guides the world, that he controls it, and a consciousness of the relationship between God and each individual, and between God and the live of the people and the fatherland. The National Socialist state will promote such a deeply religious educational system. We want parents to support and strengthen this by honesty and by good example.
You can't get any more religious than that! The Nazi were certainly not secular humanists, and any attempt to claim otherwise can only be based purely on nonsense.

As for "the Communists", you are speaking of the actions of Stalin, one man, who killed more Communists then just about anyone else, save the German army. The repressions of the Communist regimes were rooted in revolutionary turmoil that the countries were immersed in, no different than the turmoil that America and France were involved in, just on a larger scale because they were larger countries.

The "Christian" Kuomintang also killed millions, with American aid one might add.

And what about Catholic Ngo Dihn Diem of Vietnam, the American backed dictator of South Vietnam who killed thousands in his short stay.

And of course, what about the American settlers who committed massive genocide against the Native Americans, and presided over the largest slave system in the history of the world for more than 100 years in North America.

And the list can go on and on, but of course there is no need, because you obviously are not interested in facts in the first place, just spreading lies, like the rest of your lying ilk.

[crazyfingers]

Awsome Letter to Editor (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/letters/articles/2004/05/28/sins_in_the_name_of_religion/) in response to Egan's letter in the Boston Globe today.



...

His "factual" comparison of secular humanism to Nazism and Communism is nothing more than the tired straw-man argument used for years by the Christian fundamentalist right to demonize anyone whose agenda and philosophy do not match theirs.

...



The whole letter is worth reading.

[Kalkin]

There's a new term for liberals that I like. Commie-nazi proxies! Fuck pinkos or feminazis, here we can combine them both and add the implication that liberals are only servants of some greater malevolent force, too!

[KoopaFanatic]

Commie-nazi proxies!

Which works fine until such time as McBain shows up and kicks their collective asses in hand-to-hand combat aboard fighter jets...

[sullster]

There was an excellent reply to this letter published in the Globe the next day. I am sure you all can retrieve it from the Globe website.

I am on all the posters' side here, but are you all not freaking out a bit too much? This guy is a theology professor in a Jesuit college. What do you expect?

If such junk was written by a professor in a secular university, then it would be another story. The guy lives in his little catholic ivory tower, just ignore him.

[crazyfingers]

There was an excellent reply to this letter published in the Globe the next day. I am sure you all can retrieve it from the Globe website.

I think that I linked to it above.



I am on all the posters' side here, but are you all not freaking out a bit too much? This guy is a theology professor in a Jesuit college. What do you expect?

If such junk was written by a professor in a secular university, then it would be another story. The guy lives in his little catholic ivory tower, just ignore him.

I think that general population is more open to accepting what a "professor" says when they really don't know. That is especially true when it comes from one of the highly respected colleges in the region. The "professor" badly misrepresented secular humanism. I think that we have to correct those misrepresentations whenever possible.

[abe smith]

I spent the previous 24 hours (after seeing this thread) composing a snailer to send DOCTOR Egan, SJ; and now sullster has neatly beat me to the draw.

I'll do it any way; viz. "I must've read your piece, Friend Egan (:the guy brings me the GLOBE @ 4:40 ayem x 7), but unlike my buddies at Internet Infidels whom it bent all outa shape, I just figured What shd anyone expect? of a Boston College Jesuit thug...."

(Let's eschew the common erroneously-applied pejorative, "Neanderthal".)

I'll get my 37cents's worth by including with that a copy of my *Jesus-was-a-female, you=know* paper.; maybe give the good Rev. a CVA....

[sullster]

I think that I linked to it above.



I think that general population is more open to accepting what a "professor" says when they really don't know. That is especially true when it comes from one of the highly respected colleges in the region. The "professor" badly misrepresented secular humanism. I think that we have to correct those misrepresentations whenever possible.

Sorry about missing your link to the rebuttal letter. I can be blind sometimes.

Once again if this clown professor was from Hahvahd, MIT or Tufts, I would be E-mailing the fool for a week. BC is a jesuit college with football team and a lot of heavy drinkers. It has some good departments, but is not in the league of the aforementioned threesome. A theology professor is a joke compared to a science professor.

I am really pissed when I read such stuff from professors who teach real subjects.

[crazyfingers]

Another letter to the editor flames the theology prof in the Sunday Globe today.

Christian right is guilty (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/letters/articles/2004/05/30/christian_right_is_guilty/)



...

He claimed that members of the Christian right "have never engaged in the torture, murder, and mutilation of their enemies." This boggles the mind, coming as it does from a professor of theology (Egan). Perhaps Egan teaches revisionist history as well...

[residentearth]

Hitler's Faith-based Holocaust: http://universist.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=817
___________
Universism: Bearing the torch for freethought in the 21st century.
http://universist.org

[Deacon Doubtmonger]

After a standing ovation, the stadium quiets to a whisper, waiting to hear from the man who started this movement, the man whose vision has drawn them to the stadium to hear speeches that mix sports, war, and religious metaphors. "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter," he begins. "In boundless love as a Christian and as a man, I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in his might and seized the scourge to drive out of the temple the brood of vipers and adders."

Transitioning to the present, he continues, "Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion, I recognize more profoundly than ever before, that it was for this that he had to shed his blood on the Cross. As a Christian ... I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."

He is an expert at creating rousing, emotional stadium events, and by the end of his speech the men are on their feet, arms in the air, all vowing to "take back" the nation. But this speech wasn't delivered at a Promise Keepers event. The year was 1922, and the speaker was Adolph Hitler.

-- from "The Threat That is the Promise Keepers" by Kevin Courcey (linky (http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/kcpk.htm))

[abe smith]

That was a BEAUT! Breath-takingly apposite. you did good, Deac!

[Roland98]

Another letter to the editor flames the theology prof in the Sunday Globe today.

Christian right is guilty (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/letters/articles/2004/05/30/christian_right_is_guilty/)

They forgot to mention recent murders of doctors who perform abortions. But I suppose it was the secular humanists who did those too. :rolleyes:

[AspenMama]

They forgot to mention recent murders of doctors who perform abortions. But I suppose it was the secular humanists who did those too. :rolleyes:
Ah yes but don't forget that there's a difference between "killing" and "murdering". From my understanding of xian philosophy, the first is okay. Hence, all the children and adults killed due to a xian initiative, say the Crusades for instance, is perfectly moral.