Proposal: the Great Pyramid

[WILLOWTREE]

Request for I, Willowtree to debate Pervy:

subject: Great Pyramid

claims: Designed/Architect = God of the Bible

counter claim: not designed by the God of the Bible.

Each debater gets an opening statement/Presentation of evidence.

Then rebuttal.

Then second rebuttal.

Then closing statements/conclusions.

ONLY claims that contain source cite is allowed into evidence.

No debater is allowed to assert "fraud" or "lie" unless direct evidence with source cite is supplied.

sincerely,

Willowtree

[Dean Anderson]

Sounds fair enough.

Are you happy with a topic of Resolved: The Pyramid of Khufu (a.k.a. 'The Great Pyramid' must have been designed and/or built by God

You will argue the affirmative and I will argue the negative.

Are you happy with a 500 word introduction/conclusion and then 5,000 word maximum length for each statement - no more than 1/3 of each statement being quoted material?

I would suggest that we have simultaneous rounds, so we both post independantly and neither gets displayed until both posts for a round are received by the Debate Moderators.

So it would be...

1a) WILLOWevcTREE (WT) introduction/opening statement (500 words)

1b) Pervy Hobbit Fancier (PHF) introduction/opening statement (500 words)

2a) WT argument for the resolution (5,000 words)

2b) PHF argument against the resolution (5,000 words)

3a) WT argument/response I (5,000 words)

3b) PHF argument/response I (5,000 words)

4a) WT argument/response II (5,000 words)

4b) PHF argument/response II (5,000 words)

5a) WT conclusion (500 words)

5b) PHF conclusion (500 words)

I would suggest a week as being an adequate time for each response - does that sound fine to you?

[WILLOWTREE]

Hi PHF:

Are you happy with a topic of Resolved: The Pyramid of Khufu (a.k.a. 'The Great Pyramid' must have been designed and/or built by God

Negative.

This title contains an assumption/assertion giving the appearance that Khufu built the Great Pyramid (GP).

Are you happy with a 500 word introduction/conclusion and then 5,000 word maximum length for each statement - no more than 1/3 of each statement being quoted material?

The one-third requirement is not necessary. If a 5,000 word cap is in place what is the difference ?

I would suggest that we have simultaneous rounds, so we both post independantly and neither gets displayed until both posts for a round are received by the Debate Moderators.

Agreed.

But how does this actually work ?

ONLY claims that contain source cite is allowed into evidence.

No debater is allowed to assert "fraud" or "lie" unless direct evidence with source cite is supplied.

The above standard must also be mutually agreed upon. Waiting for your response.


So it would be...

1a) WILLOWevcTREE (WT) introduction/opening statement (500 words)

1b) Pervy Hobbit Fancier (PHF) introduction/opening statement (500 words)

2a) WT argument for the resolution (5,000 words)

2b) PHF argument against the resolution (5,000 words)

3a) WT argument/response I (5,000 words)

3b) PHF argument/response I (5,000 words)

4a) WT argument/response II (5,000 words)

4b) PHF argument/response II (5,000 words)

5a) WT conclusion (500 words)

5b) PHF conclusion (500 words)

I would suggest a week as being an adequate time for each response - does that sound fine to you?

Agreed.

"week" shall be defined as 7 days ?

[Quality]

The one-third requirement is not necessary. If a 5,000 word cap is in place what is the difference ?

It prevents one from simply copying-and-pasting entire chunks of websites and not actually doing any work.

[Dean Anderson]

Negative.

This title contains an assumption/assertion giving the appearance that Khufu built the Great Pyramid (GP).

That is the case that I will be making.

The title also gives the assertion that it was designed and/or built by God - which is the case you will be making.

I'm happy to change this to...

Resolves: The 'Great Pyramid' must have been designed and/or built by God

...if you prefer.

The one-third requirement is not necessary. If a 5,000 word cap is in place what is the difference ?

the 1/3 requirement is so that a post is not simply cut/pasted from other websites.

But how does this actually work ?

Posts to the Formal Debates forum don't appear immediately. We both post, and our posts are held in a storage area for the Formal Debate moderators to review. (Don't worry about me being able to 'cheat' and read your post in advance - I'm just a moderator of General Religious Discussions, not Formal Debates - I don't have access to this storage area).

Because of this, the FD moderators can wait until both of our posts are in before moving them both to the FD page simultaneously. That way, neither of us gets to see the other person's agrument and amend our own before posting it.


The above standard must also be mutually agreed upon. Waiting for your response.

When I said "Sounds fair enough" I was agreeing to that. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

"week" shall be defined as 7 days ?

Yep.

[KnightWhoSaysNi]

Just a summary here of what we've got so far. Feel free to propose amendments. My comments are in red.

1) The topic of the debate.

Resolved: The 'Great Pyramid' must have been designed and/or built by God

2) The participants of the debate, and what positions they will argue.

WILLOWevcTREE will affirm and Pervy Hobbit Fancier will oppose

3) The scope of the debate.

The debate will examine various lines of evidence that explore the question if the 'Great Pyramid' in Egypt (aka the "Pyramid of Khufu") was designed by supernatural means by the Biblical deity or by human means.

4) The length of the debate, in number of rounds.

5 rounds

5) Whether statements will be made concurrently or in turns, and if the latter, who goes first.

Statements will be submitted concurrently.

6) The maximum length of each statement.

Round 1: 500 words
Rounds 2-4: 5000 words
Round 6: 500 words

7) The maximum duration between statements.

1 week.

8) The extent to which quotes and references from outside sources will be allowed.

No more than 1/3 of each statement being quoted material.

Does this include quoting your opponent when responding or is that separate?

9) The starting date of the debate.

????

10) Any additional rules or a debate format that debate participants must observe.

Statements are concurrent and assertions of fraud or lies (of cited evidence) are not permitted unless direct evidence is provided by citing a source.

[Duke Leto]

I would recommend clarifications be made on point 10).

It seems clear that the affirming party is not going to accept any reasonable standard of evidence from the tone of his previous posts on the subject.

[Dean Anderson]

I would recommend clarifications be made on point 10).

It seems clear that the affirming party is not going to accept any reasonable standard of evidence from the tone of his previous posts on the subject.

It seems clear enough to me.

Neither of us can say "That is a lie" or "That person is a known fraud".

However, we can say "According to this source, that person is a known fraud" or "According to this source, that is a lie" (assuming we provide said sources, of course).

By providing the source of the accusation, it is then left to the readers to judge whether the accuser carries weight or not.

[Dean Anderson]

8) The extent to which quotes and references from outside sources will be allowed.

No more than 1/3 of each statement being quoted material.

Does this include quoting your opponent when responding or is that separate?

I would assume that quoting your opponent would count towards the 5,000 words but would not count towards the 1/3 rule.

9) The starting date of the debate.

????

I would suggest that the first statement should be in a week from when we both agree to terms.


I agree to these terms... so assuming WT also does (and agrees with my interpretation of Rule 10), I'm ready to start.

[WILLOWTREE]

Just a summary here of what we've got so far. Feel free to propose amendments. My comments are in red.

1) The topic of the debate.

Resolved: The 'Great Pyramid' must have been designed and/or built by God

2) The participants of the debate, and what positions they will argue.

WILLOWevcTREE will affirm and Pervy Hobbit Fancier will oppose

3) The scope of the debate.

The debate will examine various lines of evidence that explore the question if the 'Great Pyramid' in Egypt (aka the "Pyramid of Khufu") was designed by supernatural means by the Biblical deity or by human means.

4) The length of the debate, in number of rounds.

5 rounds

5) Whether statements will be made concurrently or in turns, and if the latter, who goes first.

Statements will be submitted concurrently.

6) The maximum length of each statement.

Round 1: 500 words
Rounds 2-4: 5000 words
Round 6: 500 words

7) The maximum duration between statements.

1 week.

8) The extent to which quotes and references from outside sources will be allowed.

No more than 1/3 of each statement being quoted material.

Does this include quoting your opponent when responding or is that separate?

9) The starting date of the debate.

????

10) Any additional rules or a debate format that debate participants must observe.

Statements are concurrent and assertions of fraud or lies (of cited evidence) are not permitted unless direct evidence is provided by citing a source.

You know I hate to nit pick but the title saying RESOLVES is lame. I attribute this to the incessant fog of the English countryside.

I agree to everything including the stipulation contained in post # 9.

I commend any Mod or Administrator who involves themself in this.

I aim TO PROVE that the God of Isaiah was the Architect/Designer and the monumemt contains the message of the Bible - I sure wish the title could be rescued from ambiguity land.

Should I save my posts to a disk in case Admin/Mods make a mistake ?

Who decides a winner and how ?

Doesn't matter - the evidence is irrefutable.

To the poster who is worried about me raiding links for my material - relax - I am a primary source kind of person.

Can we cite sources who are oral ?

If not, no big deal, but if you say no then you are eliminating Dr. Scott - no big deal - the evidence is irrefutable regardless.

Please create one master post of rules/format ?

Awaiting the green light.

[KnightWhoSaysNi]

Should I save my posts to a disk in case Admin/Mods make a mistake ?


Yes, it might be a good idea to have a backup, just in case. :)

Who decides a winner and how ?

That's up to the people reading. I suppose the peanut gallery will help point in that direction. :)

Can we cite sources who are oral ?

Only if it is verifiable. If your oral source is okay with it, I'd recommend providing his email or something to Pervy in a private message (for privacy reasons, please don't display his email in the forum). Does your oral source have a website, written material, online video/radio interviews, etc..? If so, we'd prefer you to use that.


Please create one master post of rules/format ?

Sure. I'll do that after this one. After that, this thread will be closed and I will set up the formal debate thread and peanut gallery.

Jason

[KnightWhoSaysNi]

1) The topic of the debate.

Resolved: The 'Great Pyramid' must have been designed and/or built by God

2) The participants of the debate, and what positions they will argue.

WILLOWevcTREE will affirm and Pervy Hobbit Fancier will oppose

3) The scope of the debate.

The debate will examine various lines of evidence that explore the question if the 'Great Pyramid' in Egypt (aka the "Pyramid of Khufu") was designed by supernatural means by the Biblical deity or by human means.

4) The length of the debate, in number of rounds.

5 rounds

5) Whether statements will be made concurrently or in turns, and if the latter, who goes first.

Statements will be submitted concurrently.

6) The maximum length of each statement.

Round 1: 600 words
Rounds 2-4: 5000 words
Round 5: 500 words

7) The maximum duration between statements.

1 week.

8) The extent to which quotes and references from outside sources will be allowed.

No more than 1/3 of each statement being quoted material (except for Round 2 where up to 1/2 can have quoted material).

9) The starting date of the debate.

Immediately (opening concurrent statements are due by Aug. 3)

10) Any additional rules or a debate format that debate participants must observe.

Statements are concurrent and assertions of fraud or lies (of cited evidence) are not permitted unless direct evidence is provided by citing a source.